Hindus living in Britain are living under the influence of two great cultures or civilizations: the Western and Hindu. The two needn’t stand in conflict with one another.
Western culture is primarily a secular and commercial culture. Its main benefit is its practical efficiency, scientific knowledge and its emphasis on human rights. Its main limitation is …
The point is Sikhs and Hindus shouldn’t… we should integrate but we should keep our morals and not lick the white mans boots.
It is a very thoughtprovocative and important article for we Hindus in different parts of the world today. Evolution and progress of mankind is based on adjustment, selection of what is more useful, and rejection of what has become defunct. Hindu religion is dynamic and has successfully evolved though many periods of hisrory, thus becoming the oldest living faith of the globe. We may adopt some good points of other culture, without disrupting the roots of our ancient religion and spiritual outlook.
Hindus have alot to offer the West in regards to their spiritual heritage. However, I don’t see that happening so much when the Hindus come to live in the West. They tend to create closed communities with very little desire to offer spiritual knowledge to their Western neighbors. Yoga has become more popular in the West than in India right now. And I don’t mean just as a form of exercise. Many Westerners are finding peace in the Bhakti or devotional path, while others find study of ancient Indian scriptures contribute to their spiritual growth, still others follow the yogic path to reach higher states of consciousness. All this will little to no input from their local Indian neighbors. I agree with the statement in the article, “Hindus should take what is useful from Western culture but try to give in turn what they have to offer, which is a deeper approach to the spiritual life.” I would like to see much more of this. The Buddhist temples open their doors and hearts to their Western neighbors by offering dharma classes and meditation classes in English. Although the Hindu temples are generally open to the public, I have yet to find English classes for adults on the Yoga Sutras, the Vedas or Sanskrit. When this becomes common place as it is in the Buddhist Temples, then you will see how the West can grow using Hindu spirituality.
The Hindus in the West, especially the young, outwardly
follow the customs and ceremonies of Hinduism, but make
little effort to connect to its spiritual roots, through study and self-induced efforts. This leaves them as materialistic as the Europeans.
Also, they do not appreciate and utilize the best that the West has to offer in spite of living here. In a way, they are isolated islands that
do not have the best of either the East or the West.
Hindus – need to understand the complete gamut of the Hindu religious ‘Injunctions’ for the ‘best living’ as regards the human’s earthly existnece and living.
Hindu religion specifically asks of the humans to ’subdue the instinctival animal/passions with him/or her so that he can become an ‘all human’ being and therefrom he can raise himself to a Cosmic Being’ if he chooses to be so.
The Hindu Gods ‘do not take on the sins of the humans – Instead thye assert themselves and motivate others to Put Down the Bad and Establish the Right’… In this sense ‘Good Laws are Godly… and the Law givers and Judges considered “Sacred’.
Vedapushpa
Bangalore – India
The Great. Hindus in Britain are living under the influence of two great cultures, the Western and Hindu. How lucky they are. Hindu culture is the most secular,catholic and evanglical culture in the world. The very central theme of Ramayana is protection of Human rights.
Hindus can relate both cultures for a wonderful life — Western culture for Ardha and Kama, Hindu culture for Dharma and Moksha which are the purushaardhaas, goals of a Hindu. This balancing is for the intellectual Hindu of cultural heritage.
The article sounds the correct approach. Hindu culture absorbs all good things without being fundamentalistic about its own beliefs.
I just want to point out that the supposed scientific knowledge that the west so proudly claims has its origins in India and Hindusim in the field of mathematics, physics, chemistry, and medicine! Western Culture is just Hindu culture without spirituality! Since when was practicality, commerce and human rights ever alien to us?
-Muski
A nice debate and a pleasure to read. My penny’s worth:
Para 1 of the article the author writes:
“..two great cultures or civilizations: the Western and Hindu..”
I would be happier if the words used were: “..the Western and INDIAN..” culture, instead of “Hindu “ .. for simple reasoning that the Indian culture is India, and synonymous with that are the secular Hindu, Sikh & Buddhist faiths in India although on the political front the Muslims born living in India (who consider themselves to be “Indians” when it suits them but otherwise pledge loyalty to Pakistan & Bangladesh) would want to disagree .. we wont go there, and I say this to underline a point.
I see no conflict between the British and the Indian culture.
Para 2 is an “imbalanced overview” by the author in my opinion but, is partly balanced by the last para .. will skip that, except to touch the point
“..problems like depression and unhappiness are very prevalent in modern Western society..”
Not true .. it is a British “disease” of sheer bloody convenience used by people to take paid time off work (applicable to more then 90 percent of those who hide behind “depression”), compliments of the rather pathetic employment law in the UK.
Africans and Indians living in Africa and India do not have this problem to the degree of prevalence in the UK .. why? They report off sick, they don’t get paid, so they don’t eat .. so no depression .. you go to work, albeit unhappy .. so what? Unhappiness is not a direct destination to depression .. it is employment law that points it in that direction.
Para 3 .. Catholicism in the west has great value to its preaching’s, but the church by and large, as in the temple in India, (unlike the Mosque) does not interfere with politics and faith runs concurrently with law and politics.
Even though I’m Hindu, I consider myself more western than Indian. I don’t accept you have to be (or claim to be) Indian to be considered Hindu.
So when other Hindus deride the west I naturally end up defending the western citadel. Its silly to assume that somehow the west and Hindu culture should be inherently at odds.
The fallacy is to contrast western and indian. Both the secular western scientific mindset and the Hindu mindset is a search to better understand Truth, morality, and human happiness. In the west religion discourages such a search in favor of dogma. In India (and really the whole non-a-brahmic world) that dichotomy is empty. It is when we misunderstand truth that we see divisions where they do not exist.
Certainly the historical background colors the contemporary manifestation of the process and that must be cautiously taken into account, neither rejected nor accepted wholesale, but both accepted and rejected in context, thereby constructing a more truthful, moral, humane world.
Let’s face it, whether it is a superstitious muslim going to mecca, a christian believing some dead guy is alive, or followers of gurus and politicians running after worldly rewards, these are fallacies in the ego – delusions. Anything, including conflict and challenges through critique that helps people overcome their maya is good. Thus the challenge of “western materialism” is a good thing that will challenge to the core values of dogma, book worship, blind faith in saviors and gurus, etc. I believe that Hinduism is the same kind to challenge that includes the value of materialism and the spirit of sanatana dharma – not a dichotomy of living in two cultures, rather two visions of the same reality.
In fact, I believe that the resurgence in Hinduism combined with honest secularism is the true way out of the dogmatic christo-islamic hell of the modern world.
hariaum
Rahul K,
By far the larger majoirty of the Hindus living in the UK are “more western” then the Indian born Indians, so you state the obvious.
Cant you be and Indian and be western too? I see no conflict there.
I do not think anyone here sets out to “deride” the west or the Birtish culture as you appear to state .. I have said above: “I see no conflict”.
What or who do you set out to defend then, as there is nothing there for you to defend. No one has assumed here that the west and the Indian culture should be, or is inherently at odds. That is not the case anyway.
Hinduism in my opinion incorporates and embraces the preachings and philosophies of Sikhism & Buddhism which are both great independent faiths in their own rights however, for political debate when I use the word “Hindu” I include the peoples of these two great faiths within the context of that scope.
Would you agree that tolerant and secular Indians are: Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Christian/Catholics?
You find lots of hyprocrites in Hindu(few so called saints too) and sulla communities, who keep on speaking against the western world.The moment they get a ticket(visa included) to the western world, its bye bye home land.
Suraj Raj,
I take your point. I am British, as I expect you may be, and other Indians who have chosen to make the UK their home and live here, very happily, and as proud *Britsih too I might add.
Does being British stop you from being Indian? .. Hamare dil dimaag to aakhir mein Hindustani hi hai na?
So, why cant we be British and Indian too? IE. *Britsih Indians? (Indians are: Hinuds, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews and Catholics/Christian Indians)
Its not “bye bye home land” .. I maintain it should be hello cultural Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist motherland India .. with equal pride. Would you see eye to eye on this one I wonder?
I have very rarely seen eye to eye with Navin, his thoughts and his writings, and at a weak moment in time many months ago I did wonder if he “needs help”. I did feel later on that I ought to have refrained. Spilt milk….???
He is either a great pholosopher such that mere mortals with a basic education fail to understand his “confused” writings, which is a matter of opinion and such is mine, for his ramblings remind me of the very humourous TV series “Yes Prime Minister”.
Pravin, I think you are a bit naive in your assumption about Hindus in the UK.
A lot of Indian Hindus born and bred in the UK consider themselves primarily as Indian and not as British or even western. I know many have shaken their heads in disapproval when I tell them i see myself more as British than Indian.
Even though they definitely are more western, many Hindus in the UK still identify themselves more with India, and regard its culture distinct to the wests.
And there are Indians out there who do deride western culture, even on this blog, just notice the comments about the ‘gorae’ on other threads. Maybe they do it without realizing, I don’t know. But it still happens.
However I will admit u do make one good point about why can’t u be Indian and western. I think something similar can be said about other Asian countries, like Japan and South Korea. Nowadays some folk regard Turkey as a western nation, its a part of Nato and looking to join the EU (If there are any organisations that represent the west it would be the EU and NATO). So I don’t see why India can’t be regarded as a western nation.
Rahul,
Political association and feelings of belonging to a nation, and therefore nationhood are evolving as our British born Indian youngsters grow up in Britain, educate and take responsibility of their own thoughts and its projection, and its impact beit good or bad which reflects on our cultural motherland India, and our sanskrati.
We are all British of course, and I say we are British Indians in order to maintain our distinctive identity in the UK for it not to be swept away by Gordon Brown’s deliberate policy and that of the British media especially BBC and Ch4 of calling us “Asians” in a generalised term. They are all aware that British Indian dont want to be refered to in the generalised term Asian.
I would prefer Gordon Brown to refer to Muslims in the UK as Muslim Asians or Asians of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin in order to dis-associate Indians from Muslims .. British Indians is what we are.
You say: “A lot of Indian Hindus born and bred in the UK consider themselves primarily as Indian and not as British or even western”
What is wrong with that? India is the very root of our very rich heritage of which we should all be proud of. The only qualification I make is that, we are British Indians. We embrace both the cultures and we do not find any conflict therein, a point well proven by the highly successful Hindu & Sikh youngsters in senior positions, and proud of their Indian heritage.
I respect your views and indeed your opinion line one however, if you see yourselves being “more as British than Indian”, and that is correct but nonetheless, do you have a conflict of identity in your inner thought that stops you for being British and Indian, ie. British Indian, and cherish the pride of our Indian heritage?
Or are you content at being swept away into the abyss of degradation by Grodon Brown in sweeping your distinctive identity of your Indian decent and heritage, and call you simplistically “an Asian” and put you in the same basket as the Muslim Asians with whom we have absolutely nothing in common, although over 200 million of them live in India and loyal to Pakistan?
India is not a western nation and should not be seen as such .. but the Indian youngsters are highly westernised intheir outlook to life .. a superb combinatin of east and west .. ie. there is no conflict.
I appreciate the complement and the insult, though I’ve only seen Yes Prime Minister a couple of times.
But I ramble on:
There are two question being confused in the discussion:
Indian v Western and Hindu v Western.
It is to the latter I addressed my previous comments.
As to the former: Indian, British, American, Canadian… are politically identified alliances (nationality). We can construct beyond the vow of citizenship to social identity. We can go further to psychological identity…
The cloaks one wears can be beautiful, but they are never you. They are your choices and reflect your values, but they are not you. How an individual “relates” to and environment is very much you. We all have conflicting roles. As a spouse one enjoys sexual relationships with pleasure in mind. As a parent we project asexual identity. As a business person one is greedy, at other times we are generous. Sometimes our ignorance results in education. Being at the center of a maelstrom of conflicted roles is what most lives are about. Enjoy the multiple perspectives it offers to you.
hariaum
Thank god Navin .. you expressed an emotion here .. you are indeed a human being and not a saint – LOL
I am sorry my friend if I angred you. My apologies.
Pravin