Inadequate support structures within the Hindu community: A Case Study
A Hindu family of four, living in Greater London, suffered a terrible bereavement with the unexpected death of the father, who was the only earner in the house. As can be expected, this put a large strain on the family, both emotionally and financially. This was compounded by the fact that the widow, a recent immigrant and mother of two young children, had no extended family in Britain.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:13 am
I entirely agree with the writer. Local Hindu temples should gear themselves to helping Hindus in need. History of Hindu temples of in India shows there were Ashrams attached to local temples for the care of poor Hindus or families in need of due to sudden calamity. This tradition was broken more systematically by the British by heavily taxing the Temples, sometimes up to 60%. This slowly made the temples bankrupt and became just the ritual providers and priests got alienated from the communities around.
Now that India is free and rich in many ways Hindus all over the world should with their expertise and financial backing overturn this practice of some 2 hundred years and reorganise themselves. To put it in practice this lady should be given every help, finding job for her, childcare during the day, negotiating a small flat with the help of Local Authorities Social Services, etc. I would request the temple Trusties look into the case again bring about a major change which I am sure all Hindus will appreciate and remain grateful.
.
May 18th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Organised religion gives structure to communities and thereby facilitate community support. If your own religion does not provide this, it is perfectly reasonable and understandable to move to one that does. One wishes the lady and her children the best and congratulates the Church for being there in times of need - of course, the cynic may question the motives of the Church, but the fact is that they offered support when Hindus are too self-absorbed to care about others; either that, or they were too busy vandalising art exhibitions or protesting about some movie. Hindu society is sick; the question is, who will step up to the plate and offer a doctor’s healing touch?
May 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“either that, or they were too busy vandalising art exhibitions or protesting about some movie.”
What does that have to do with this?
I don’t agree with all that stupidity but thats a different topic altogether.
Surely u must have heard of the xtian protests in Bharat over Da Vinci Code and the resulting ban in some states.
That doesn’t seem to have prevented the Church from intervening in this case.
May 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
True, I stand corrected - humanity generally is going to the dogs; perhaps it just affects me more when Hindus do it because I care more about Hindus and because it disappoints me so much that Hindus of all people are stooping to such a level. You’re right though - I shouldn’t allow my specific and quite personal concerns about Hindu degeneration blind me to the wider problems of society as a whole. That being the case however, my question still stands - who is going to step up and put things right?
May 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
I agree with the article, the temple should have supported her and the children if they could do so.
On the topic of ‘organised religion’ (as above) many Hindu temples do not really match what I would call ‘organised’ religion, especially when it comes to ethics and morality. Actually I think the Hindu ’sects’ are more receptive to have a backing in their actions and be more organised and tactile in these situation.
Many temples in Britain, have priests who can merely conduct rituals, sing bhajans/kirtans and do not have much grouding in doctrine and organisational skills. Which makes them less capable with educating and supporting children and parents in these situations. When at hard times people want support, which a good influencial priest would be able to organise and some good Hindu education that he could do. There priests are hard to find in ‘Hindu’ temples but easier in ‘Hindu sectarian’ temples such as ISKCON, Swami Narayan, etc..
May 18th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Hindu organizations and Hindus practicing Hinduism must raise funds for any calamities and social support structure.We mostly ignore the God Living as individuals and put all resources in Temples /Egos which does not address such real issues.We stand up as community leaders and elected officials and make honest address to such catasrophic Family moments.
Let us pray and wake up for those who suffered because of our under actions in this ragards and pledge not to repeat.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Namaste All
It is a wonderful piece but unfortunately it is not new. Our temples are a watering hole for few short sighted idiots who are only interested in personal glory.
Look not onlt at church but also at Synogague, mosque and Jamat Khana (For Ismalis) They are there to help their community members in their hour of need.
A synagogue will have a registered of every membet living within their area and will go out of their way to enquire about any one who may be missing from the congrigation, has not attended for some time.
When I was in East Africa, I distinctly remember our local priest visiting us, we inviting him for dinner, as they were paid peanuts and depended upon our generosity.
In return they were there in our hour of need. But that tradition has not taken roots here in UK amongst the Hindu community.
What is the purpose of building glorified temples, spending millions if they lack human touch, humanity or fail to serve the community on all fronts.
Most other religions preach politics from pulpit, create vote bank and many Christian, Muslim and Jewish Padris are councillors, active in politics. But I have not seen a single Hindu
serving as a Councillor. I was even thrown out from a temple for discussing politics.
Recently I was in hospital for a long time, as a mishap, a blunder by a junior doctor. It was indeed a trying time for me and my family. I could have appreciated a sympathic ear from a temple priest.
But I never saw a single Hindu priest visiting the hospital while members of other faiths were regularly visited by their priests.
In the end a Jewish trainee padree who was from Germany, here to learn English gave me comfort and solance.
Our Swaminarayan and Hare Krishna temples have hundreds of trainee priests who could visit their flock in hospitals. After all
what is better, humbling than serving the sick and the poor in their hour of need.
When I came out, I wrote to number of letters to temples but did not get even an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. Only time they visit us at home is when they need funds?
No wonder Hinduism is the only religion that is shrinking, going down as a percentage of the global population.
Why the writer has not named the temple? It is time to name and shame these narrow minded idiots?
Bhupendra
May 19th, 2008 at 7:02 am
This is a well written and heart wrenching piece. Suchteples are better demolished and shut down. Any religious institition that does not helkp its congregation is not worth it’s salt.
One has to see the work being done by organisatios like the Ramakrishna Mission, Arya Samaj, Satya Sai Seva Samitis to undestand that we are supporting the wrong groups like these useless Swami Narayan cults.
The Ramakrishna Mission monks and nuns have even taken up guns to defend the rights of Dalits and are already working very hard in Burma where Typhoon Nargis has played havoc.
Hindus are a notoriously useless lot especialy where the tarders have gone. In working class disaphoras like Trinidad and Fiji, Hindu temples double up as community centres and community welfare centres as innthe tradition of Madurai’s famous Meeankshi Templecwhich fed hundreds before the DMK robbed them dry.
The hinduism in see in England is shameful and depressing. It has nothing to ffer but a cheap imitation of the Swami Nayarayans and other suich cults that do precious little but build temples.
Avoid such temples and set up Hindu Self-Help groups that will lead to help the needy and tghe really poor.
My heart goes out to the widow and let me say shame on the Hindu community for abandoning her when she needed them most. You can still make up for it but do you people have the courage?
Ashok Row Kavi
UNAIDS
India
May 19th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I think some people on this thread are being a bit unfair, recently a grandparent (of one of my friends) was seriously ill in hospital and the sadhus from the Swaminarayan Mundhirs were there by his bedside praying and trying to help the family.
So its not true that all Hindu mundhirs and institutions don’t serve Hindus the way they should, it just applies to the non-sectarian (i.e. outside of Iskcon and Swaminarayan) Hindu mundhirs that don’t give the required support to their community/devotees. The major difference between sectarian and non-sectarian mundhirs is that while the former are run by sadhus/pandits, the latter are run by upper class businesmen or educated professionals. Maybe this explains the heartless attitude shown by the temple commitee in the article?
May 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I agree with the writer totally. we need to have some mechanism to help people who are in need. All other communities, come to help their brethern while We just look the other way. People donate or drop coins at temple but this is not enough. Our people need to do more support commnities. What ever money collected by the temple in goes to Government and part of it comes back for the maintenance of temples.
Hope there will be an organiation/individual to focus on these problems???
May 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Namaste All
One admirable charactor of Hinduism is that we believe in and so often participate in avery temple activite, whether the temple is devoted to Lord Rama, Krishna, Ganesh, Shankar or Goddess Amba, Durga.
Unlike Christians and Muslims who fight among themselves, Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland and Shias and Sunnis in Iraq, Lebanos, Hindus would never fight amongst themselves, that is followers of Lord Rama, Krishna, SHM etc
would visit each other’s temple.
In one Hindus family, there may be four adults who worship different deiety and live in harmony. So why a priest from SHM, ISKCON etc can not visit any Hindu in hospital?
Recently I was in hospital for 6 weeks. I am primarily a devotee of Lord Krishna but I visit most temples. I did not see a single
priest from any organization visiting the hospital. Why?
Are they waiting for an invitation from a sick person? Let us be honest. Our temples are a glorified monuments devoid of any feelings for humanity. Otherwise how can we bar Dalits, the so called lower class from our temples and drive them into the arms of Christianity.
It is time to call spade a spade, admit our short falls and try to rectify it. But that does not mean all temples are useless. They do provide some good service in some fields but it is not enough in these changing circumstances.
I am not trying to heart any one’s feelings but merely stating my experience and the facts in the hope that some one in the authority may read this and realise our shortfalls.
Bhupendra
May 19th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Namaste All
We the Hindus have one good tradition, that although we may pray to different diety, may they be Lord Rama, Krishna, Ganesh, Shiva or many Gods and Goddesses, we have unity on that front at least, unlike Christianity and Islam.
I am a devotee of Lord Krishna but like most Hindus, I visit any temple. So there is no reason why a priest from SHM or ISKCON could not visit any Hindu in a hospital.
Recently I was in hospital for 6 weeks and during all those painful and depressing period, I did not see a single Hindu priest in our ward that was regularly visited by priests of all other faiths.
Let us be honest and admit that we are short on practicality and long on pompus and ceremony. No wonder we, the Hindus are known as Happy Go Lucky People.
This is not a new phenomina. Our priests have rarely servied their faulks on the social and humanitarian fronts. It is time for a change.
Bhupendra
May 20th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
1. Time to re-cultivate our age-old Vedic culture, which offered answers to all societal problems (besides spiritual aspects). We are becoming more and more materialistic, like other societies, and loosing our human values and spirituality. Puruhits or mandirs don’t understand its own duty and don’t want to take any responsibilities. Neighbours don’t want to get into anothers problem, and so on.
2. One of the core philosophy of Vedic Dharma and culture is Sewa/ Service. That is why, when some one (even strangers) visit our house, we treat them (suppose to) as Nayaran. That is why there are phrases - Nara Sewa Narayan Sewa (Serving people is servivg Narayana, the Almighty), Jana Sewa Janardana Sewa (Serving people is serving Janardana, the Almighty).
3. The culture of Sewa/ Service must be the corner stone of mandirs and hindu samaj. But for that we have to equip our mandirs and society. If a mandir does not have any Sewa/Charity Funds, and no volunteers to offer services, what one or two puruhits can do? Again that is their skill, they have to learn the art of motivating people to create community feelings and take responsibilities. What happened to that unfortunate family, it may happen to any of us.
4. Besides local mandirs, it is also the duty of Hindu organizations (here UK Hindus) to help and support the fellow hindus in difficult situations. The situation of Bharat is different than Hindus living outside. I wish the moderator of this site and other British Hindus take an initiative to adress this issue. This would be a great work, and create examples for others.
Bharat
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Namaste,
I was reading this sloka of the Bhagavad Gita (BG), found apt for this issue.
——
How can man step up his usefulness to others?
Understand that ‘being useful to others’ is the way for yourself to evolve through diluting your personnel attachments and weakening your ego.
saktAh karmani awidwAmsah yathA kurwanti bhArata
kuryAt widwAn tathA asaktah chikeershuh lokasangraham ||BG 3.25||
“As the ‘ignorant’ men act from attachment to action, O Bharata, so should the “wise” men act without attachment, wishing the welfare of the world.”
To the extent we work for larger schemes to bless a vaster section of humanity, to that extent the attachment loses its poison and comes to bless the age. Many poisons serve as medicines in their diluted form, while the same in a concentrated form can bring instantaneous death! The ego and ego-centric desires bind and destroy man, but to the extent he can lift his identifications to include and accommodate in it, larger sections of the living world, to that extent the attachment gathers an ethical halo, a divine glow, and becomes a cure for our subjective pains and imperfections.
Here the practical method suggested is that Arjuna should work, unattached to his own ego-centric, limited concept of himself and his relations, and he must enter into the battle-field as a champion fighting for a cause, noble and righteous, against the armies that have come up to question and challenge the deathless ‘values of higher living’ as propounded and upheld by the Hindu culture.
To serve others is to serve the Lord. Jana-seva is Jnardhana-seva. Nara-seva is Narayana-seva.
Translation and purport by: Swami Chinmayananda.
Enjoy.
Bharat
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May 20th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Good. Please name the Temple. All hindus first should not use the temple like bus stop and use for evening free meal. We should start contributing our % of income like most faith do. Even we when donate large have a say to direct that money too. What happens to our millions that goes to famous Indian temples is taken away by cnetral government in India and offered haj subsidy WHY? because of our infight. our some priests are to gready and becomes filthy rich and faught for gaddi when family grows. so first an INDEPENDENT BODY is tobe created for mandir affaris world wide. that loojks after all finances and how best is utilised to prpagate like other fath does.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 am
I think it is about time Hindus in Britain learn to take care and gaurantee our younger generaions of that care from the day they were born. Temples should be able to play a major role in this thinking. Temples should encourage the educated knowledgeable in local laws to look after Hindu children in need of help due to unforeseen circumstances. One thing I have noticed the Christian organisations in such circumstances take care and isolate children from their parents for Christianisation. Hindus should have organisation to oppose such practices.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:25 am
When Sw Chinamayananda was asked what was his mission in life? He said to convert Hindus into Hinduism!!! How many of us are aware of the deep imports of our scriptures? One who is- will not dream of leaving it.Having said this-we sure need to replicate the sense of brotherhood as practised in Islam.a sort of camaraderie between us irrespective of caste & creed.I reproduce the Chinmaya Mission pledge- read , ponder over the words, practise-it says it all.
We stand as one family bound to each other with love and respect.
We serve as an army courageous and disciplined ever ready to fight against all low tendencies and false values within and without us.
We live honestly the noble life of sacrifice and service producing more than what we consume and giving more than what we take.
We seek the Lord’s Grace to keep us on the path of virtue,courage and wisdom.
May thy grace and blessings flow through us to the world around us.
We believe that the service of our country is the servce of the Lord of Lords, and devotion to the people is the devotion to the supreme Self.
We know our responsibilities, give us the ability and courage to fulfil them.
OM TAT SAT.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:30 am
Namaste All
I do not know how many people read this online magazine or how many people receive it. Perhaps the editor can inform us.
But it is indeed encouraging to read comments by readers, as they are so mature, knowledgable and comes from the heart.
It also seems that most contributors are young readers. But I feel it is not enough just to write but to act on all fronts.
It is time our younger generation take keen interest in our culture, religion, social and political activities enmass.
Please join ISKCON, SHM, Overseas Friends of BJP, VHP, SEWA International, Labour, Conservative and LibDem political parties and be active on all fronts.
We need Hindu Councillors but hardly any youngster is interested in becoming a Councillor, as work is hard and financial reward is negligible.
Many readers write to me, “Practice before you preach.” It is a fair comment. But I am an old age pensioner, in poor health and mostly confined to my home, unable to go out on most part.
Yet, being a journalist (now retired) I am still very active on literary front, writing in various newspapers and magazines, even have my own column and publishing my books as well.
That is my contribution, especially having a close contact with many MPs whom I have interviewed for various magazines.
But how I wish I was young and in good health. I feel I have wasted my youth by not becoming active on all these fronts. But our times were different. We did not have the same opportunity and there were no computers.
So how lucky today’s generation is. Please do not let your youth, energy and knowledge go to waste.
With warm wishes and kind regards.
Bhupendra
www.indialink-online.com
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Namaste Bhupendraji,
You wrote “Many readers write to me, “Practice before you preach.†It is a fair comment. But I am an old age pensioner, in poor health and mostly confined to my home, unable to go out on most part.”
Not all will say, go practice before you preach. Please don’t feel disheartened. Does students ask the teachers, go become students like us and then teach? Teachers were students too, and today they are teachers for students. Preaching is teaching. Preaching the right thing is not so easy, it needs experience.
One can acquire knowledge by reading books, but not wisdom. Wisdom comes from knowldges plus experience. You lived the life, acquired both knowledge and experience, now surely you can preach. A president or prime minister don’t go to the war-field when the country need to fight a battle. Bhagavad Gita clearly spcified the duty of everyone based on temperamant. A soldier don’t decide the war, but the President or PM (of course they take advise from military commanders). Some in younger generations don’t understand the value of words of wisdom. They think, they are merely words.
Yes, we need platforms to act. Thats why, we Hindus must associate with organizations based on our temperament and other factors like age, education etc. We need to act, as Swami Vivekananda said, even a small action is better than thousand words.
Contributions comes through diverse ways. Its not just money contribution or physical work. Writing is also a contribution, in fact good writings are sharper than guns. And it needs skill to write, else everyone would have become writers. Journalists occupy the fourth of a democracy. If journalists don’t write and shows on TV, we will be living in the stone age again.
I wish you good health and happy long life.
I conclude with a quote:
“Let people say whatever they like, stick to your own convictions, and rest assured, the world will be at your feet. They say, ‘have faith in this fellow, or that fellow’, but I say, ‘Have faith in yourself – all power is in you – be conscious and bring it out. Say, ‘I can do everything’. ‘Even the poison of snake is powerless, if you can firmly deny it.’ ~ Swami Vivekananda [CW VI 274]
Bharat
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May 24th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Jai Shri Krishna
I feel that too many of our temples are run by rich, influential and rather egotistical old men. Many of our temples in the Uk and failing to perform the primary role of conducting proper service to the deities let alone perform outreach work. Priests are often lazy and gready and committees are too busy fighting amongst themselves.
I feel that part the problem lies in our priests not having the right expectations and training. Traditionaly the only requirement of temple Pujari’s was to perform Pujas. In the Diaspora more should be expected from them. One of the first steps to adressing these issues would be for organisations such as The Hindu forum and Council of hindu temples, to promote better recruitment and training practices of priests, such as them having basic councelling skills.
Thankfully our family priest in our Temple in the WestMidlands is able to speak English and works part time in our local Hospital giving minor medical treatment as well as working alongside a few Christian ministers as a hospital Chaplain. When our Gradmother was taken ill he came to say prayers for Her and was even there at her deathbed as well as that of my sick uncles. Later at the funeral and shradha rituals i felt that this particular Priest in question had dealt in a very sensitive and pragmatic way in helping the family.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Namaste All
Hare Krishna
Bharat, thamk you for your kind words and encouragement. Yes, I have experienced that writing, a good command and knowledge parted through writing works wonders.
You can read my articles, column, etc on www.indialink-online.com and www.abplgroup.com and www.trafford.com/07-1313
Regards and best wishes.
Bhupendra
May 27th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
All of man’s works are expressions of love. When we choose a job we are choosing how to express that love:
Doctor love through health
Priest love through spirit
Lawyer love through justice
Engineer love through creation
Teacher love through knowledge
Researcher love through revelation
and so on.
This also is true for those that seem to oppose us:
Thief love of self materially
Murderer love of self in dominance
Is there a difference between the “good” and “bad” group? - only in the aspect of empowering self vs. empowering others/all. Nobility is the expression of love guided at leading love to others. This is not selfless but self in complete mindfulness.
- SatyaSoma
We complain that our parents want us to be doctors, engineers, etc. Karma itself can be an expression of compassion and caring. Then, when we have disposable income and time, we can do even more. It may be fraught wiht imperfection, but it is in the doing that reality is. This is the aryan way - to be noble in our daily deeds, even into the plan of our life: to learn, to create a home - to serve our family, to serve our community without regard to family, and to serve the world - to surrender (student, householder, vanaprastha, sanyasin).
hariaum
hariaum
May 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Sadly, the predicament of the woman in question echoes my experiences.
I first arrived in the UK as a separated mother of two very young children. I got a divorce some years later, but felt no support coming from either my extended family (who are all very wealthy and well-known to the community), my Hindu community or my (then) Asian employer.
I joined the Arya Samaj in London, as I was raised as an Arya Samaji in India and am well-versed in Havan, Sandhya and Bhajans. I wanted to belong to a community who cared for me and and my children.
However, I found that the core committee at the Arya Samaj tolerated us, rather than welcomed us, treating us with suspicion and even quite overt hostility at times. I took the children to the Sunday Samaj for years, but no one cared how I got on or ever came forward with any help. During that time, I was unceremoniously dumped by my employer, Sunrise Radio, where I worked as a radio presenter. I found that one fine day, I was told by the radio that my show wasn’t on any more and that they would ‘call me’ when my show was to go on air next. I have never - to this day, 10 years on - ever heard from them! All this while, the Samaj knew most of the people in the radio community, but nobody spoke up or talked to anyone on my behalf. I was treated unfairly and in a very cavalier fashion, and no one seemed to care or mind!
All the time, while my kids were growing up, I asked the Samaj on several occasions, to organise workshops on the issues my kids and other youngsters had to deal with on a daily basis - the pressure to smoke, take drugs and alcohol, bullying, rudeness and petty crime (gang-fights, muggings) in their local areas. The Samaj had nothing to offer my children or any other youngsters. On their annual Divali show, they attracted many youngsters for their dancing and singing talents, but there has never been a systematic, intellectual or moral response to these issues from our Samaj that our youngsters can really use.
At the Samaj, I often got the impression that the founding members - who were from Kenya and Uganda originally - held on fiercely to their positioins and enjoyed ‘keeping tabs’ on the community. I think I was perceived as a threat - my knowledge and pronunciation of Hindi and Sanskrit, my mastery of English and two other European languages and my two degrees were probably too much for them to handle. This is also the impression I got from my colleagues in Sunrise Radio, who all seemed to resent me from the day I joined - for no reason whatsoever. One, Anisa Nasir, even took to bullying me whenever she could, when she got some time from her Diva-like ranting and raving, that is. The Hindus on the radio did nothing to speak up for me when they could clearly see I was unfairly dismissed.
When I first came to live here, I felt really glad to discover a vibrant Hindu community. However, I have found that they are quite selfish and will use you rather than help you when they can. My children, who are now in university, have formed their own ‘community’ of friends, while I have immersed myself in work over the years and made friends through my professional contacts.
To be honest - I don’t know what purpose the Hindu temples serve. I pray at home with my children - we even do the occasional Havan outdoors, weather permitting - and we enjoy Indian and Hindu functions in the wider London community when we can. Thank God for all of us ordianary Hindus living here who keep Hinduism alive and real. We - and not our temples -are the reason we are now a well-respected part of the mainstream culture.
My Nameste and best wishes to you all. I hope the woman in question can find some sympathetic Hindu friends who can guide and support her during her times of trouble.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:28 pm
A very interesting article and more interesting and informative discussion on the topic and views.
I think thru these columns itself, we had read that it is time we convert temples from ‘mere’ place of worship to place of learning. Learning includes wide variety of activities and the process of practicing helps the ones who involve learn a lot more and help others in their difficulties.
Pardon me, while I can appreciate Shri Satya’s disappointment, the question as to who is to bell the cat, gives a feeling that we are waiting for ’someone to act . Why cannot we act? Why not tell the “ignorant” people in the temple to have the contact tel nr and names of people connected with such organizations like ” art of living ” or arsha vidya etc . Also why not some youngsters there organize a volunteer group to provide guidance, help etc for people who are in need?
Do we know that the our ignorance is the main reason for our big problems? If some of the volunteers know the name and contact nr of the Indian consulate, names and tele nr of media people etc, whenever such problems are there, those institutions could be contacted and there will be a chain reaction which will bring forward some one always there to help.
Hinduism is ’sick’ because, most of us Hindus do not even know what Hinduism means after all. Ask the person who was kind enough to tell that their “duty” is to provide a place of worship - why he or they need to provide a place of worship when the God is either totality - infinite etc.
Ask him if by any chance he has read or heard what is Dharma, what are the different types of Dharma { samanya Dharma, Visesha Dharma, Kalachara Dharma } etc. And then also what does law of Karma means to him or them?
When we start asking questions, people who do not know will try to find out what it is and will learn, or come to know of that which will be an education and will help better our society.
Hindus are not sick. Hinduism is not sick.
It is our ignorance that is sick
there is no disease worse than poverty
there is no poverty worse than IGNORANCE.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:01 am
Namaste All
In a way Maneesha’s story is a story of success, not because of the Hindu temples and society but in spite of them.
I have been living in this country for more than 40 years and lately working as a journalist, the toughest profession to break into.
I have learnt, through experience that there are more ways than one to skin a cat, speaking literally. There are ways and means to fight bullies, play dirty without any one realising what you are up to.
But on most part, we the Hindus are too timid, honest and decent to fight dirty. But in the end, truth always triumphs over lies and short sightedness.
I am glad that Maneesha has at last overcome all her difficulties and came out a winner, with well educated and kind and caring children.
She should be a role model for other women in similar situations.
Good luck and best wishes.
Bhupendra
June 5th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Nameste and thank you, Bhupendra. That was very touching.
I do agree with you that we Hindus are too honest and decent to stoop low - thus we often ‘lose out’ to less worthy people. Never mind. Some battles are not worth fighting, let alone winning!
However, I do think that as a community we need to extend more support and kindness to one another, without any fear of being judged. I was actually quite shocked to see how many people shunned me once I was single again! The men wouldn’t dare speak to me in case their wives thought I was going to steal their husbands, and if the wives got close to me, the husbands would start getting nervous thinking I might put ideas about emancipation into their wives’ heads. All I wanted was friends! No one invited me out (unless they had to, because of ‘aupcharikta’ - formality) or came to ask after me and the kids. I would remember the song ‘ Yaara seeli seeli birha ki raat ka jalna ‘ by Lata Mangeshkar - and how she says that even her shadow no longer walks with her. You never imagine, when you are growing up, that that could become your own predicament one day. It’s not even the bereavement or divorce that is the real shock, because although these are unexpected and terrible, they do happen. It’s the treatment that follows afterwards from your own people and community that really breaks you!
I find that when men are single (after becoming divorced or widowers) they get a lot of kindness from both other men and women. The women often invite single men in the community over for Divali functions and so on; however, single women are shunned and treated with suspicion. They also try to marry off the single men again, by introducing them to women, whereas everyone expects a single woman to start living like a hermit! I was shocked to find that these kinds of attitudes existed amongst even the most liberated and educated Hindus in my own family and community!
It’s really important that this lady (in the article) and her children get support and understanding at this time from a support group of friends and relatives, who are there just to offer help when needed without judging her or asking questions. Without going into her financial worries (which must be very hard to bear at such a time) I’m sure she’s feeling quite lost and lonely. I hope she and her children and pull through this testing time with dignity, strenght and faith.
Best regards to you all,
Maneesha
June 12th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Maneesha, was your husband a Hindu?
June 17th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
No, my ex is French and Roman Catholic. We were married in a Hindu ceremony at my parents’ home, though it was my decision to marry him. (We were also married in a Catholic ceremony in France afterwards.)
I was young and quite naive as I’d never been outside India; but I was true to him. He, however, showed himself to be extremely racist, angry, abusive and controlling as time got on and started to beat me. I would have either been killed or driven insane if I’d stayed married to him. At the time, we were living in West Africa, where I had no family or community (apart from our ex-patriate friends and one newly-married Indian Sindhi couple) to help me. I realised I was living in the same house as my enemy and that I needed to remove myself and my children from the constant threat of that horrendously violent, frightening and degrading situation.
He then tried to break/ruin me through 11 years of legal wrangling over divorce, visitation, custody, maintenance and assets - to the point that the kids got so disgusted with him that 7 years ago they forbade him to contact them. It is only earlier this year that my son agreed to meet him again. My daughter still won’t talk to her dad. They needed a father figure while they were growing up and he even let them down. We needed a community that would help us settle down here in the UK, but neither my extended family nor the Samaj nor the radio station showed any real compassion or offered any assistance. Some (like my own elder sister) even took advantage of my situation to further their own selfish interests!
Well, what can you say? It was a steep and painful learning curve, but I definitely needed to learn these lessons to wise up!
Anyway, why did you want to know if he was a Hindu?
Best regards,
Maneesha
June 30th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I thought as much. When you said everyone you turned to for help denied it, i thought their was more to your situation. You should have helped yourself in the first instance and married a Hindu, then i have no doubts you would have had all the help in the world. Help yourself int he first instance then others will always help you. Let this be a lesson on what happens when you marry out of religion.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Hindu, your comments are overly optimistic. There are individuals in every group that just don’t get it. Though inter-religious marriages add complexity, withing religion marriages can also be quite complex, and harmful: consider the occurrence of abuse, adultery, etc - things that have not disappeared from hindu society.
The lack of support within a society is also quite difficult to quantify / qualify. Generalizations from one situation to the mass is poor reasoning, though commonly done.
In humility, we must simply help those who suffer on an individual basis while we look to find long term social solutions. Blame, stereotypes, moralization only further suffering.
We must certainly build better social structures. We must certainly increase the value of women, and individuals, in society. We must certainly make more available education on spiritual paths…
Of course we are all responsible for our decisions and the consequences. But the suffering is not lessened by saying so. - We must certainly be compassionate to all beings, regardless of the particular avidya circumstances of that suffering.
hariaum
July 5th, 2008 at 5:37 am
Hello Hindu,
I find the statement ” you should have helped yourself in the first instance and married a Hindu…” sounds a bit odd. Does that sort of a thinking, sound, a bit constricted in attitude? Is the tag “Hindu” makes all the difference ? Or is it the ill-education? If the tag “Hindu” makes the difference, then, would there be would not have been all the dowry deaths, suicides etc in the “Hindu” families?
Marriage, of course, is, not something - just between two people. The two people who get married are the important links. But fact of the situation is that the whole society is related to this activity with the two as the center.
The statement ” Marriages are always *happy*; it is the “living together” that is found to be wanting”. So no doubt, since really it is a matter of *living a life with some one *, one need to look at the whole scenario with maximum caution and if possible objectively and analytically before deciding to act up on.
And finally, *help* is something that is needed when one is in difficulty.
There is no excuse for not providing help to the *needy*.
For a human being, that is growing from being a consumer to contributor.
That growth is growing in to * MATURITY *
{ I think that is why they say to students of Vedanta that *Karmayoga leads to “antahkarana suddhi” and this leads one to Jnana(gyana) yoga - and all this to liberate onself by understanding Brahman!!}
That is why understanding Hinduism - law of Dharma - helps one in leading a very nice life - this very life we live.
cheers
July 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Namaste All
Certainly the comment by so called Hindu is not only short sighted but some what out of line as well.
If the Hindu (He may not even be a Hindu) has read all the articles and letters in this edition, then he should know that we, the Hindus are least helpful.
Even our temples and so called community leaders turn away people like Maneesha in their hour of need.
Our Hindu community has absolutely no structure or organization that can help our fellow Hindus in our hour of need.
Recently I was in hospital for a long time, as a result of a blunder by a Junior Hos[ital Doctor who nearly killed me.
In my ward there were Muslims, Jews and Christians who were regularly visited by Padrees, Priests and Malwais but I never saw a Hindu Priest.
This was the first time I felt whether I was following the right path, was in the right religion!
This is the time when we need them most but no where to be seen. Yet hare Krishna and SHM have hundreds of trainee priests who could go the hospitals and comfort the sick.
After all what is more important for charactor building than helping the people when they are down, depressed and feel isolated. So plese don’t talk about how great we are?
Yes, I also feel that we the Hindus should marry within our own
culture and religion. But so often it is easier said than done.
It is but natural to fall in love, to let our heart rule our mind. I have seen many Hindu girls, even daughters of friends and relations, marry Englishmen and are perfectly happy. Moreover
these Christian Englishmen are “More Hindus” than we are.
In any case where do we draw a line. Marry within a Hindu religion, in our community Like Gujaratis, Marathi, Bangali OR
within our own caste, culture, within friend circle?
I am glad that we are having a fair, open and civilized discussion. Presumably we can learn some thing from each other.
Hare Krishna.
Bhupendra
July 7th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill. Lets not complicate something thats straight forward. Lets not start banging on about issues that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It’s simple, in the scenario above there was more to the story then maneesha was letting on and having found out the missing link, it’s clear to see why maneesha was left isolated. Nothing more to it. Again i say, let this be a lesson in marrying out of Hinduism. Stick to Hindus, and enable Hinduism to flourish. Those that have got a problem with what ive written, can lump it.
July 10th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Dear Hinduji,
To my mind, there is no justification at all, if Maneesha was not getting support from * any one around * when she was in dire need.
Providing support to the needy - is universal - the only condition is that the one who needs the support is really in need of the support and the one who can provide the support is capable of providing the support. All other points are only a matter of interest from the point of view of case study and then to work further on that - that is for us to learn lessons if any.
cheers
July 13th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Hare Krishna
Namaste All
It is our Holier than thou attitude that has created such a mess in our beloved Bharat.
When Muslims forcefully converted Hindus, we blocked their way
back into Hinduism. If we had adopted a lenient attitide perhaps Bharat would have been an united nation, the most powerful nation in Asia and Hinduism having the most followers.
Shivaji and Maha Rana Pratap were the only ruler with a foresight who wellcomed back converted Hindus and gave them a place of pride, even let them marry their daughters.
Maneesha at least brought up her children in Hindu religion rather than let them remain outside our culture and religion.
We have and always will have people who burry their heads in sands and blaim others for our misfortune.
I am glad that by far the vast number of readers do not share this narrow minded views.
Devotee
July 13th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
My Nameste to everyone!
I see that a very interesting and informative discussion has ensued from my stating that my ex was not a Hindu or an Indian person.
First of all, I believe that as Hinduism allows us to marry whom we please, it is a matter of personal choice. That is also exactly how it should be. I wanted a good person for a spouse - and I understand they exist in all religions and all races, right??? Hinduism, moreover, also strongly advocates looking far and wide for your spouse. My ex-husband even went through a ’shuddhi’ ceremony with an Arya Samaj priest in India prior to our wedding, so, technically, he was a Hindu when I married him. (Incidentally, I had to get a ‘dispensation order’ from the Catholic church to get married in the Catholic ceremony.)
So - in view of all I’ve said above, what’s all this rubbish from ‘Hindu’ (who doesn’t sound very Hindu to me!) about ‘helping myself’ and ‘learning a lesson’??? What lesson? That you shouldn’t marry outside your caste? Your community? Your religion? Your ethnic group? Your nationality? So many Hindus marry into other castes, so many marry into other ‘gotras’, yet others marry Hindus from regions of India other than their own - and, like Bhupendra says, where do you draw the line? Do they all also have ‘lessons to learn’? The essence of Hinduism is tolerance, and ‘Hindu’ sounds like he holds very racist views. I also find him - typically - judgmental. This is why so many Hindus are so reluctant to help anyone in need - they start to judge them before they know or understand them. By judging and condemning others, they excuse their apathy and inaction. Do they not have any sympathy for another human being - plain and simple - in need? Do they ask a thousand questions about the victims before giving help and money to charitable institutions? Do they ask if each individual victim passes ‘their personal criteria of judgment’ before they give their help or cash? I fear that if they do things on that basis, no one would ever qualify for their aid. This is an unnecessarily holier-than-thou attitude and I feel that some people need to be educated out of it. The only ‘lesson’ I had to ‘learn’ from my experience was that, as I had virtually no previous knowledge of the real character and attitudes of the man I was marrying (we didn’t live together or co-habit in those days, as some youngsters do nowadays), I had a 50-50 chance of getting it right or getting it wrong, which is exactly the case with any marriage, even those that are arranged by the parents within the community. Otherwise there would be no divorces in India, would there?
Incidenally, humans marry humans, just like animals mate with their own species. As far as I was taught, we humans are all the same species, though we may come from different parts of the world, have different skin colour, speak different languages and hold different religious beliefs and views. How can we allow ourselves to discriminate on religious, ethinic and racial grounds when our own Indian Constitution and the law in Britain and most developed countries calls it a punishable criminal offence? There is nothing wrong about marrying outside your caste, race, colour, religion or nationality. However, there is something seriously wrong, both ethically and legally, with discrimination.
Your religion is your personal belief, and even though born a Hindu, you are free as a grown up to choose to be a Hindu - which I do and which my children do. And exercising one’s freedom of will is exactly what Hinduism is all about. Hinduism is a life-philosophy, a code of conduct on individual, domestic and societal levels and it tells us every step of the way to use our ‘buddhi’ or ‘maneesha’ in each situation rather than follow blindly any convention or expedient behaviour. The most chanted of all mantras - the Gayatri mantra from the Rig Ved - asks for ‘dhiyo yo nah pracho dayat’, where we ask the divine Om to inspire and strengthen our intellect.
I feel that, over the centuries, some forms of Hinduism have become shrouded in obsolete convention which people obey without thought, even breaking the law - as for example in demanding dowries, burning brides and so on. Our Hindu scriptures are the most modern, forward-thinking, comprehensive guides to living in today’s complex world because they encourage all our thoughts and actions to spring from knowledge of self and knowledge of the world in which we exist. For knowledge to work, we need the constant use our intellect in all situations in life.
I look forward to your replies!
My regards to you all,
Maneesha
July 14th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I work as a Lawyer and have represented many people from the Hindu community. My biggest type of client by far is Hindu women seeking a divorce.
These women come to me in great numbers and their stories are very sad and demoralising. However, there is a clear trend I have noticed. A vast majority have married outside of their Religion. Most of them have very little knowledge of their Religion, language or culture. They have been brought up as a ‘blend of east-west’ as many of them describe themselves.
Their stories are the same. Their husbands wanted them to convert to their religion. Their husbands were racist towards them and their families. Their husbands won’t let their children go to see their Indian families. The list goes on, but is typical of the reasons these women want to get divorced.
In the early years, I passionately helped these women win their divorce battles, but these days I go home feeling demoralisted and de-motivated. Every time I win one such case, I get two similar ones again. All of these women come to my office thinking that the Hindu community has let them down and owes them something for their misfortunes. If I charged only half my usual legal fees, I would be a rich person by now.
In all fairness, I only see these women when something has gone wrong, given the nature of my occupation. However, the trend is clear and the numbers speak for themselves.
The tragic fact is that there are many Hindu colleagues in the field who are fully aware of this and are concerned about it just like I am, but they choose not to do anything for fear that it will portray their practice in a negative way.
I realise this is politically incorrect and fully expect a lot of defensive arguments from people on this forum, but I feel that this must be brought out in the open.
July 16th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
A pat on the back for Maneesha and Sonya. It’s not much but you deserve it. Perhaps a start to a real solution is someone with passion and experience becoming a teacher - lecturer in youth circles to educate those kids. The doldrums that Sonya is pointing to sounds to me like an inner voice calling for greater action/involvement in real solutions. Life makes such a calling difficult to execute sometimes, but I hope you will pass this phase and embark on something even more beautiful than protection of women’s rights.
hariaum