After Shambo controversy, now its the case of Gangotri
After the much publicised case of Shambo the bull, another bovine controversy has erupted between sections of the Hindu community versus the establishment.
A large number of Hindus protested outside Parliament earlier this month, to express anger and dismay at the killing of a cow by the RSPCA at the well known Bhaktivedanta Manor temple premises in Watford, belonging to the Hare Krishna movement.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I can not understand the whole thing. Here we have King Dasrath, father of Lord Ram, going out hunting and killing animals and in Sat Narayan puja there is also mention of killing animals. Mahabaharat is also about killing. Ram kills Ravan.
What is all this not killing an animal.
If we can kill our enemy certainly we can kill and animal which poses a threat. Furthermore we can lay to rest an animal in pain.
The Sanatan Dharam teaching has been hijacked by Mahavira and his useless teaching incorporated in Sanatan dharam.
We kill trillions and trillions of lives every day of our living. The rice and the wheat grains also contain life and we kill all that life in order to eat roti and rice.
Why the hell all this pretence of No cow or any animal killing.
LIFE IS LIFE WHETHER IT IS IN A GRAIN OR AN ANIMAL.
Sanatan Dharam was a different religion before Mahavira’s useless preaching. It was and is this preching that makes Hindus into an eunuch - unable to to fight for their Motherland. Hindu - Muslim bhai bhai - what a nonsense - Muslims are like Kaurov - enemy - whom Lord Krishna directed are to be killed.
Wake up Sanatan Dharam Samaj and go back to the teaching of Lord Krishna and Lord Ram - both told us that we are to kill our enemy. Life is meant to be taken if it does not accord with our living.
We go to doctors and have treatment - are we not killing bacteria or other organism that invades our bodies.
Mahavira’s teaching has made what was once a beautiful park into a scrubland full of jungle. In order to go back to restore our park we must learn to cut down the useless trees and scrub.
Talking of trees - they also have lives - and trees are cut down to provide fuel for our cooking fire and timber to build houses.
Go take up your weapons and fight the enemy - be it human being, animals, trees, cows or pigs etc.
Our religion does not teach us to become eunuchs - castrated individuals unable to fight for our motherland. You want to become a useless Gandhi who cut up Bharat into three pieces. He should have said KILL THE ENEMY.
WAKE UP and forget about cow killing. You do wear shoes DO YOU NOT -well the skin or hide of the shoes was once a part of a living cow or a bull. The animal was killed and you are now enjoying wearing those shoes - well go get rid of those shoes. Let us stop being hypocrates
Hindus are now like the doormat - every non-Hindu can now wipe thier dirty and filthy feet on them.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I can not understand the whole thing. Here we have King Dasrath, father of Lord Ram, going out hunting and killing animals and in Sat Narayan puja there is also mention of killing animals. Mahabaharat is also about killing. Ram kills Ravan.
What is all this not killing an animal.
If we can kill our enemy certainly we can kill and animal which poses a threat. Furthermore we can lay to rest an animal in pain.
The Sanatan Dharam teaching has been hijacked by Mahavira and his useless teaching incorporated in Sanatan dharam.
We kill trillions and trillions of lives every day of our living. The rice and the wheat grains also contain life and we kill all that life in order to eat roti and rice.
Why the hell all this pretence of No cow or any animal killing.
LIFE IS LIFE WHETHER IT IS IN A GRAIN OR AN ANIMAL.
Sanatan Dharam was a different religion before Mahavira’s useless preaching. It was and is this preching that makes Hindus into an eunuch - unable to to fight for their Motherland. Hindu - Muslim bhai bhai - what a nonsense - Muslims are like Kaurov - enemy - whom Lord Krishna directed are to be killed.
Wake up Sanatan Dharam Samaj and go back to the teaching of Lord Krishna and Lord Ram - both told us that we are to kill our enemy. Life is meant to be taken if it does not accord with our living.
We go to doctors and have treatment - are we not killing bacteria or other organism that invades our bodies.
Mahavira’s teaching has made what was once a beautiful park into a scrubland full of jungle. In order to go back to restore our park we must learn to cut down the useless trees and scrub.
Talking of trees - they also have lives - and trees are cut down to provide fuel for our cooking fire and timber to build houses.
Go take up your weapons and fight the enemy - be it human being, animals, trees, cows or pigs etc.
Our religion does not teach us to become eunuchs - castrated individuals unable to fight for our motherland. You want to become a useless Gandhi who cut up Bharat into three pieces. He should have said KILL THE ENEMY.
WAKE UP and forget about cow killing. You do wear shoes DO YOU NOT -well the skin or hide of the shoes was once a part of a living cow or a bull. The animal was killed and you are now enjoying wearing those shoes - well go get rid of those shoes. Let us stop being hypocrates
Hindus are now like the doormat - every non-Hindu can now wipe thier dirty and filthy feet on them.
March 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Hello Everyone,
I am Beharry from Trinidad. I have read the comments from Ram Prasad and Jag Nandan. I was interested in Jainism and Mahavira also. I found out that some Jain priests go around naked in India. Also that the Jains are vegetarians and do not even eat potatoes. Why? Because potatoes have eyes. What a nonsense. Every grain and every seed has life in it. We eat so many grains or seeds or food made out of grains and seeds. We take or destroy billions of lives everyday.
Furthermore I was told that Mahavira, when he lived about three thusand years ago, before answering his call for nature broke some twigs and swept the ground before performing his act. He did this so that he will not kill any living creature. What about the creatures that came about of his body - where they not killed when outside his body? Was he not killing them. What about the branch that he broke - did he not kill the life of that branch?
What about when he, Mahavira, ate his food - was not eating some thing that had a life at one stage. His preaching infiltrated into Hinduism and destroyed the great teaching of our ancestors.
Our ancestors never preached ahinsa. It is from Jains and Mahavira. Ahinsa preacing turned India into a nation of non-fighters who could not protect thier own motherland. Ahinsa also contracted the vast Hindu empire extending from the Mediterranean seas to the Indonesia and from Turkey and parts of Russia to Sri Lanka. Ahinsa also divided the present day India into three pieces.
What about when you perform the sexual act - how many seed from a man are discharges and only one or sometimes two are fertilised and the rest are destroyed. Are you not killing the human seed? You are killing humans seedswhich is worse than killing a cow. If you really believe innot killing a cow - stop performign any sexual act of procreation.
There was Hindu influence in the ancient Americas also and that also disappeared with this teaching of Ahinsa.
Now for cow killing- please go and read the old text of Rg veda and it portrays killing of cows and bulls. Even today Kali puja is done with a sacrifice of a goat. The cow culture got hold of India because cow is a very economical animal. A cow lives for about twelve years or so. At age two she starts producing calves and milk. For ten years there is milk and ten claves. Each calf, say half of them are heifer claves, also starts prioducing calves and milk - take your pencil and paper an work out this exponential growth and see the benefit of not killing a cow. It is pure economics. The heifer cows and the heifer of the heifer cows also start producing - now you see the benefit.
The pundits saw all this and got into the act. Now you do the puja and give a cow as a “daan” to the pundit who will benefit exponentially from it. the pundit’s excuse - this cow will help you cross the BETARANEE RIVER to reach into heaven. BETARANEE means inablity to swim.Nobody has ever been there and seen all this river and cow crossing but the pundit has to tell a lie to cheat an innocent person off his cow.
Thus cow became holy so that pundits could play their cheating game.
Furthermore “cow” or rather GAU is a scientific term meaning either atom or sub-atomic particles which were regarded as holy by our ancient predecessor scientists. So the GAU jumped the scientific fence and landed into the lap of pundit enabling them to cheat. Go read the book by Dr. Raja Ram Mohan Roy entitled VEDIC SCIENCE and wake up my fellow Hindus. Dr. Roy is world renown physcist.
Yes Krishna and Rama both teach us to destroy your enemy. Ram when living in the forest did not have a bhindi or baigan plantation to get his food from. He was a hunter. He was hunting deer when Ravan eloped with Sita. Was he not killing animals in order to live in the forest.
Look at the painting of Shiva. He is sitting on the skin of a tiger. He killed the tiger to make a mat for himslef or some one else did it for him. He is using an animal skin to sit on. If it O.K. with Shiva to use animals for his benefit - why not us.
I can give you quotes from Rg Veda where cow kilkling is done for purposes of puja nd entertaining guests.
So let us get out of this nonsense about animal killing.
All you fellows who preach not to kill a cow or a bull WHAT IF ANYTHING Have you done fto help millions of young people living in the sulms or hutments of India. The answer is NOTHING. You do not even think of helping them but make a song and a dance if an animal is killed. YOU HIPPOCRACTS.
The publisher of this paper HINDUSIM is also a hippocrate. HE DOES NOT HAVE THE GUTS TO PUBLISH WHAT I HAVE SAID. SEE HOW GUTLESS HINDUS HAVE BECOME. THEY CAN NOT FACE THE TRUTH. LYING AND CHEATING IS NOW PART OF HINDU RELIGION.
What our ancestors taught has been subverted to make easy living. JUST like the present day politicians in India - the present day Hindu Indian politicians in India prostitues - yeas prostitutes - in order to get votes they will sell ltheir daughters and mothers to Muslims. Give some more money to Muslims to visit Mecca. Thes political prositutes have never thought of giving us money to visit Haridwar or other holy places in India.
This prostitution began with Gandhi and Nehru and continues to this day. Anyone who supports them and disagrees with my views si also a protitute.
March 9th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Hare Krishna
Namaste All
It seems readers are missing the point. It is not only the question of killing one solitary cow. But the underhand methods employed by the Police and RSPCA.
Last month Bhaktivedanta Manor Temple in Watford performed a ground breaking ceremony, a Bhumi Pujan to lay the foundation of Europe’s largest cow protection farm.
It was in the planning stage for the last five years and as usual for a Hindu project, it has to overcome a numerous planning and practical obstructions that are normally thrown at such Hindu projects.
Such a joyour occasion was marred by the killing of Gangotri a few weeks earlier. It specially affected those who were involved
directly in taking care of Gangotri.
It was not, unlike Shamboo, a deseased animal who would put the health of other animals and wordhippors at risk. The whole heard is immunised against TB and foot and mouth disease.
RSPCA officials masquerading as angel of mercy but displaying the machoism of a mad dog, find it difficult to understans this bond between an animal and a human being.
They should ask this question to the indegnious English people who keep dogs and cats. The passing away of a family pet, especially a dog so often leads to a depression in adults and the children are heart broken at the loss of their favourite pet.
While in China and Korea, dog meat is a delicacy, here it would be looked upon as barbarism if some one would like to eat dog’s meat.
If RSPCA who do not have the courage to stop the slaughter of cattle for halal and Kosher meat, are looking for culprits, then they should inspect every lorry that leaves these shores with live cargo of cattle.
So often these lorries are over crowded, did not stop for watering and by the time they reach their destination, half the cattle are dead or dying. That is why Animal Rights Protesters blocade these lorries at ports. This is real cruelty, not looking after, caring for a sick cow with devotion.
Every religion, every culture has its own code of conduct and code of behaviour. The ISKCON strongly believes in non violence and preservation of lives as far as possible. One should not confuse, muddy the water by bringing in plant life.
Even the air we breath in, contain millions of ting microorganism.
Most Hindus are vegetarians and this lifestyle is fast gaining popularity in the West, as it is healthy, ethical and fulfilling to many. This is Hinduism’s monomania.
Perhaps that is why most Hindus are peace loving, culturally rich and accommodating, able and willing to integrate with the
indegnious people, wellcome in most Western countries.
Yet this short sighted government ignores our just demands, our
needs and tramples on our aspiration. It seems the best way to get noticed by ythis blinkered government is to make trouble, take to street and demonstrate the way ISKCON did outside the
HOC and the DEFRA.
So many MPs have now taken notice of our concern and I am sure such an incident may not happen again.
The new approach in farming or rather the old age tradition pracriced in India for thousands of years are now revived by ISKCON.
It is a timely reminder, a lession in ethical, green, free-range and organic farming that could be the salvation of the farming industry and humanity at large, in view of Mad Cow desease, Foot and Mouth, Blue Tongue and Bird Flu that many one day wipe out a significent number of human beings.
The ISKCON has promised a new method, a cruelty free farming that they say will be not only better and sustainable but greener and affordable.
So let us support this unique experiment and make sure that that this government understands our concern, gives us the same respect it accords to Muslim and Jewish community. If not, we should be ready to fight tooth and nail for our rights.
Bhupendra
March 11th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Sorry Bhupendra, but it seems to me the underhand methods you talk of were commendable as they were necessary to overcome a RIDICULOUS AND CRUEL obstacle i.e. ‘hindus’ denying an animal’s suffering to be relieved; there is nothing to be applauded or admired in that at all.
Is anyone seriously suggesting an RSPCA officer would be willing to kill for no justified reason?
March 18th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Hare Krishna
Namaste All
Sorry SharmaJi but you miss the point. If any one thinks that Police, RSPCA or any one in authority can not misbehave, then we are living in a dream world, not a real one.
Killing an animal for Koshar or halal meat is most cruel. So is transportation of live animals in overcrowded lorries when as many as half of them may die.
It regularly makes headlines on the TV. We may not agree with
every thing ISKCON may stand for. But they have the right to observe their dharma, belief, especially when it does no harm to any one.
After all we do not put down our old people, even when they are very sick and beyond redumption?
This cow Gangotri was not sick, not suffering from TB or Foot and Mouth disease but just plain old and nature would have taken its course.
I believe in live and let live but we the Hindus are always picked on by the authorities, in every country, from Russia to Malaysia and are a third class citizens in our own country Bharat!
Unless we stand united, have political, financial or acedemic muscle, we stand no chance in this rapidly changing world.
Bhupendra
March 18th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
It seems there are people who have much to say but don’t appear to have any idea about the facts of the case. Gangotri was being cared for by TWO British vets. Both have confirmed that she was well enough to live and did not have to be killed. Gangotri had NO disease of any type that would have put in danger any other life form.
The person who made the initial complaint just happens to be the same person that the RSPCA brought to the Manor as their vet to check Gangotri. Guess what, it was this same individual who then came again without an invitation and killed Gangotri whilst the monks were in prayers.
Don’t confuse the unjust actions of the RSPCA by excusing them away. Only last month in a court of law, one of the judges stated that the RSPCA training manual for their vets was such that encouraged them to end life as opposed to finding ways to look after animals.
The bottom line, the RSPCA actually broke the law of the land. And that information will soon break - then all those who had jumped on the bandwagon to condemn a peaceful faith might wish to apologise for their insane rantings.
Only last week Peter Ainsworth the Shadow Minister said that after his detailed study he has concluded that Gangotri should not have been killed. In fact he went further, he said that the RSPCA appeared to have misled people in factual information. He is now asking for a full investigation.
The RSPCA has become a killing machine. If you don’t believe me, write them a letter and ask how many animal they put down each year. See what the trend shows to you - then maybe you will begin to understand that with the RSPCA some have said we have a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
March 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
The RSPCA say Gangotri was in constant pain, suffering infected sores and breathing difficulties. The cow had also suffered injuries that had not healed well after an attempted mating.
Doesn’t sound disease free to me, and unless the above is fictional it COULD BE a reasonable justification for euthanasia to help a distressed animal.
Those who wish to compare animal euthanasia to similar treatment of humans are simply showing a lack of intelligent debate as the two issues are not on the same level.
Insensitivity by the RSPCA is certainly deserving of the strongest criticism but in this specific case An independent inquiry may establish facts better; Currently we only have guilty until proven innocent for the RSPCA, and I’m not jumping on that bandwagon (yet). This organisation may lose vital charity donations from hindus due to its name being dragged through the mud unnecessarily, this is saddening to me as I know of the good work they do.
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am
Sumeet - Why should the RSPCA have the right to decide the fate of a cow, diseased or not, who is being lovingly cared for by the temple community? If anything, the RSPCA should just check that the temple community is using the services of a proper vetinary practitioner, and that is as far as it should go.
March 24th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Hare Krishna
Namaste All
Yes SharmaJi we the humans are a different question, as it affects us. Why should we think we have the right to live until
nature take its course?
Why are we so priviliged? Is it because we have superior intelligence, that God created us supreme? Then it is our duty
to protect those who can not protect themselves.
You did not answer the question why RSPCA does nothing
when animals are bleed to death with their throats cut and
transported in such inhumane way?
Well, the answer is simple. These are too big, too powerful
organizations for RSPCA to take on while we the Hindus are
divided even on such a simple issue where there is no reason
to disagree!
I hope the donations to RSPCA from Hindus dries up. I am not going to contribute to RSPCA until they mend their ways.
Bhupendra
March 28th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Raju - Because they are unique amongst welfare charities in having the clout of the law, and therefore need to have firm rules that prevent anyone mistreating cows even if that organisation/person think what they are doing is for the best. My main point is that the RSPCA obviously didn’t agree with the ISKCON’s vets and/or welfare capability for this particular suffering cow. They may be right or maybe wrong but these facts should first be independently proven before we take to the streets with banners. I am for an independent investigation and the RSPCA ought to be able to explain their actions in such an inquiry.
Bhupendra, you talk of being one of those humans who has the intelligence to want to see suffering animals are treated well, and then say you would be happy right now to see the RSPCA suffer from reduced donations.
IRONY????
And finally, if you expect others to believe everything that is being alleged about the RSPCA in this case, why don’t you at least have the decency to find out what they have done to campaign against inhumane animal slaughter and transportation? You may be surprised that it is far from ‘nothing’.
Other sensible hindus please wait for facts to be proven, do not condemn the RSPCA needlessly, that is all I am asking.
Thank you.
Namaste to all.
April 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Gosh! A emotional debate indeed.
Unlike what someone has said here, not all Hindus are vegetarians. A lot of us eat meat too although that is not the issue here.
Ram Prasad makes some valid and noteworthy points. I too choose to look at this issue without emotion.
Have you guys ever looked at a drop of live home made yoghurt (dai) under a x1000+ magnified microscope? Those who are vegetarians perhaps ought not to lest they see the millions of live bacteria in that one drop of dai .. a living organism invisible to the naked eye which you consume with deep pleasure.
If an animal is in pain, put it down … it is the human thing to do! I dont know whether this was case and I reserve comment but if it was, then the action was correct.
I agree it was wrong of the RSPCA to put the animal down without consent, and for that reason alone I believe the administrators of the Temple should have the right to pursue.
Bhupendra and I have opposing views in many an area. I maintain that it should be made legal for an incurably ill human being whose life is an intolerable burden of indignity and pain, and for whom there is no hope of recovery, to consciously choose to end his life should he choose to do so.
I for one would, under those circumstances, and to ask to be allowed to die in dignity, should be that individual’s decision.
April 5th, 2008 at 9:25 am
As an admirer of your people - sort out the politics and India will make even more progress - and the enterprise of Hindu’s in England I am on your side on the issue of Shambo. Unfortunately DEFRA do not employ commonsense when it comes to such matters and the rules are unbending. I hope that your community can bring sufficient pressure to bear on the relevant authorities to get a small change in the law so that this sort of incident does not happen again without strong reasons.
April 23rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
The argument that we kill bacteria etc so it justifies killing animals is flawed.
The point is we try and live in the environment causing as little harm and damage as possible. This isnt just a Hindu concept and is understood by most people who think about the environment beyond just their selfish needs.
Is killing a potatoe and slitting the throat of an animal the same thing?
If I killed a carrot or killed a young child is that the same thing? If i go to a court and say that to the judge they would think I’m insane.
Theres clearly a difference in the ability of different living beings to feel pain and suffering.
People kept black slaves for hundreds of years, thinking them to be a lower speciecs. When confronted they would say the same things like current meat eaters “Its a personal preference stop being so melodramatic”, the way animals are currently treated is worse than many of the atrocieties commited on humans in the past, like slavery, holocost etc.
Millions of animals are breed like its some sort of factory production line, kept in vile conditions where many die and millions killed everyday. Maybe we should think about what our actions and choices are doing to other people, animals and mother nature.
Theres a great docu film called earthlings which I saw made me feel sick at the way we think it’s human kinds right to do barbaric things. I guess it takes time for thoughts to evolve.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I do not believe I tried to justify killing of animals by offering a view that if killing bacteria acceptable then why not an animal, in comparison. You misread the spirit in which I make that point .. the point of essence being:
“life is life whether a large animal or bacteria .. the taking of it therefore, and its consumption whether by slaughter of an animal, or whether by consumption of invisible bacteria .. is still consumption of something that has life”
I do not consider it wrong in my opinion to eat meat, and I understand that the vegetarians have their own opinions in this respect, but is it right for vegetarians to sit in judgement? Para 2 gives you food for thought in this respect.
Flawed or not, it is for the readers to judge.
I reserve comment of your other points.