Shamble of planned ‘largest temple in Britain’
A Hindu temple project, planned to be the biggest in the country, is emerging as the focal point of a bitter feud involving missing funds, allegations of fraud, and ever longer delays in estimated completion dates.
Work has been underway on the Shri Sanatan Mandir for many years. The temple is being built in Ealing Road in Wembley, and planning permission was first granted by the London Borough of Brent two decades ago in 1987. The original completion deadline was December 1999, and the estimated budget was £7.5million, due to be funded entirely by the British Hindu public.
December 27th, 2007 at 6:28 am
This project has been an issue since it was started, at present we as Hindus should be concerned as to why this project is not finalised. Any accusations made should be substantiated and if correct then one must seek solution and redemption.
Mandir’s finalisation is of importance at this stage as it affects our standing hence those concerned must seat down and resolve this issue sensibly and those who have mis-appropriated funds should be brought to justice.
There are Hindus in UK who can underwrite this project single handed, provided there is transparency.
I am involved in running a small Mandir in Greenford and am aware how important it is to have Devotees faith in the project and management.
Let us all leave our personal eggo behind and and salvage the situation.
December 27th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Hindus in Britain are ignorant about their religion. They need, not another temple, but Hindu library cum auditorium, where they and also those non-Hindus who are interested in Hinduism can learn about Hindu religion and about history and culture of India and other Hindu countries( Nepal. Bali, Fiji Island, Guyana, etc etc). Auditorium will be for performances of cultural shows , theatre, debates on Hinduism etc.
It is possible to have a little place in the auditorium for the worship.
However, just big temples do not serve any purpose. It only brings together all very corrupt people of the Hindu society of Britain.
December 27th, 2007 at 10:44 am
The fact is that the temple is being built. It is there, albeit an eyesore. To raise the question of what the Hindu Community needs is: smaller temple/ libraries/ auditoriums is another debate for another day; lets not obfuscate this subject.
What I suggest is required is fresh project management and good PR exercise. Lets get the Hindus of this country back on board. Why don’t Hindu PR firms, Hindu Construction firms…come forward and lend of their services, if not free then at a reduced rate?
We can all get politically active, show solidarity and raise debates in parliament over a cow, yet when it comes to a temple, we become impotent. Is it a wonder , even though as the third largest religion, we are not taken seriously. We have poor leadership and virtually no vision.
I suggest the Vallabh Nidhi Trustees, get together, and create a firm, progressive action plan, removing any obstacles that lie in their way and getting the community back on side.
December 27th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Building more and bigger temples does not enhance Hindu culture. It rather serves to divide Hindu society more particularly if temples are to spread the message of a Hindu sect or the other.
There ought to be places where alongwith providing facilities for Hindus to worship they and their friends from the indeginous population are also able to have access to tremendous amount of knowledge that Hinduism has contributed to all fields affecting our day to day life over the centuries. Temples, as has been the case in the olden age, ought to be the centres where Hindus would hold shastrarths, seminars and conferences to strengthen and demonstrate not only unshakable unity of Hindus but further acquire and disseminate knowledge by active participation to sociaty as a whole. To prove to the world through their life style, actions and social behaviour that Hinduism is such a Vishwa Dharma that aspires to serve humanity, works in the interests of peace and regards the whole world as one great family.
For all this those who are actively involved in any projects relative to Hindu way of life must display their capabilities to discharg their social obligations with utmost integrity of their charater.
Naresh Arora
December 27th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Your right about that Jay. No point complaining. We must be positive and start a fresh. Therefore it is right that a more experienced commitee should be elected, and the Mandir should still be built, since it is a major requirement for Hindus living in Wembley.
Currently at the temple there is no volunteer force available to help out. This Diwali they hired out a non-hindu security force which costs money. If they had volunteers it would be free and no money would have been wasted. Therefore we should give as much support as we can and we should try and petition for a new commitee as soon as possible.
The mandir is beautiful at the moment, lets just hope it opens soon!!!
Jai shri Krishna
December 27th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Hindu Voice is right in saying that we need smaller Temples. Yes, we should have a lot more of them to serve the Hindu community’s needs. We do not have enough of them at present. But then, there is no harm in having a few of Large Grand Temples to demonstrate the rich Hindu Cultural and Architectural heritage. Whether large or small Temple good managemet and Hindu Seva Bhav is must.
December 27th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
As a kid, i have waited a long long time to walk into that mandir completed… I have waited years and years, and to be honest, im prepared to wait more and more years. The only reason i am ready to wait for the mandir to be prepared in it’s own time is that i know it takes money to make it. Be honest to yourself, not all Hindu’s are big givers when it comes to things like this where they think they are giving their money for a ‘useless’ cause.
I like the idea of hanving a monumental Hindu mandir HERE in UK. It’ll make me think yeah, there are people out there who do care about their religeon. The problem with the small mandirs is that when you go there, its so quiet you think at times, are the older generation the only ones who WANT to preserve their religeon.
A big monumental mandir will attract more kids, and when they go, they’ll understand the peace and harmony you feel coming to a mandir. They’ll come more oftan, and our religeon will remain preserved and honoured the way it should be. That is all i want.
December 27th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
The sheer vision of this huge mandir is amazing but we need to keep pushing until it is completed, and if this mad doctor cannot do the job then he should be deposed of and somebody or a group be appointed to take over.
December 28th, 2007 at 12:17 am
I thought there were already enough monumental temples in UK.. the idea of having many smaller community temples is really important, to serve widespread communities. Hopefully the people in charge of this project will complete it.
December 28th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Quote Sejal:
“The problem with the small mandirs is that when you go there, its so quiet you think at times, are the older generation the only ones who WANT to preserve their religeon.”
Sejal - I think that the reason why small Mandirs are quiet is NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SMALL. It is simply because they don’t offer anything to do for younger people who would want to meet other Hindus and who want to learn about Hinduism, and even for more committed Hindus who want to make a difference.
If small temples had the following aspects:
1) A small study / library room
2) Regular discussions which are hosted by young people for young people (but maybe co-ordinated by people a bit older, like late twenties/early thirties).
3) Regular youth club kind of activities - THAT ARE NOT LINKED TO ANY SECT OR POLITICAL GROUP
4) Regular meetings where those committed to Hinduism / Hindu wellbeing talk about how they can do good stuff to spread Hindu dharma and support our people.
…soon the small temples would emerge as strong centres of our community. These large iconic temples - they are not what is gonna awaken our people…they’ll just be museums to look at but not real living centres of our communities.
December 28th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Dangerous
“Sejal - I think that the reason why small Mandirs are quiet is NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY ARE SMALL. ”
When i read that, I couldn’t help thinking that you were mad at my comment or something. Yeah your right, IF those things existed it would emerge strong. But the small temples also have no reconization of such. They are sort of ‘in the background’. I would love for a new local temple to be built in my area, and these things existed there, but what are the chances of it?
If i can’t get the small, i’ll go for the big…. Yeah the big one will be kind of a “museam” like neasdon mandir is, but it’ll feel great to go there. Going Neasdon mandir is great, the feeling and all is brilliant. It was fantastic, if only the smaller temples wouldn’t lose hope so soon, and they did something to pull us back from drifting away…
December 28th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Our people do not need ever bigger and more expensive temples. Smaller temples that actually serve the community, serving as places of education, devotion, unity and support are what is the need of the hour.
I disagree with the above comments made by Hindu Voice.
If we are to have everything Dangerous wants then we need bigger temples but not grand and expensive. Most of them are old churches or some warehouses etc which cant cope with the present day demands of the youth.
Smaller temples are only good for old folks to get together and gossip.
However since we only have two recognised grand temples in he UK as far as I know ie Swaminarayan temple in London, South Indian Temple near Birmingham
It is good to see a third magnificent temple going up.
If you know of any grand temples in UK please let me know and link to an image of you have one.
Cheers
December 29th, 2007 at 2:06 am
This actually reminded me of a passage in a history book on India I picked up from Waterstones a couple of years back.
“As new Islamic challengers ventured across the deserts of Sind and over the Hindu Kush, India’s dynasties seem woefully indifferent as they lavished all available resources not on forts and horsemen but on flights of architectural fantasy (i.e. mundhirs).”
A case of history repeating itself? Back then society believed that building such fantastic monuments alone would be enough to see off the threats facing them. And we all know how successful that attitude was and its seems very little has changed. This is why every Hindu with a brain should be concerned with events expressed in the article.
A mix between such large national constructions (such as the one mentioned in the article) and more local and smaller mundhirs (such as the ones mentioned by HV) would be ideal. I believe that they can complement each other very well. I’m fully with HV on this one, question is how do we all go about it? Maybe we should draw something up?
December 30th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Besides Kirtan & rituals there is no other activity at temples. Todays need at the temples is Chintan & not Kirtan.
December 31st, 2007 at 2:05 am
While I think that this project should not be abandoned now, I do agree with those who think that what is needed are smaller centers in more places. I live in Guildford and there isn’t any centre here, not that I know of anyway. Also, there are hardly any books in the public library or bookshops on Hindu Dharma. I think the more effective way of educating people in the UK about Hinduism are not just a few big centers in a few places but a more wide spread dissemination of Hindu Religion and Philosophy.
December 31st, 2007 at 12:12 pm
It is a disgrace that THE MANAGEMENT OF THE Temple are unable to complete the project and shows they are not suitable to run these sort of activites
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:46 am
I agree with A.Moron about the Hindu library cum auditorium instead of another extravagant temple. I think the facilities in existing temples should also be improved. For example the Hindu temple in Crawley is more like a shed. There is no proper floor or heating in the kitchen and no hot water.
January 3rd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Small temples: each of us has in our home a madir. Most small community temples start with such mandirs that are opened up for others to come to for festivals. It grows from there to become a group property, then temple committees take over as the temple grows to anonymous large faithful. Each of us, then, has the opportunity to set up discussion groups and regular meetings for our own community. We should all be doing so and the start up costs are minimal (tea or cookies).
Large temples: As Sejal pointed out, there are people who are attracted to a group first from good marketing. As such large temples are attractive to people who don’t know about the atman-paratman identity. To initiate people we need to attract them. Also a large temple is reassuring to a seeker that they are not getting involved in a cult that will brain wash them. It also stand to say to those who oppose us: we are here to stay. This latter point is why the muslims destroy temples, statues, parthenons, sphinx’s etc. It is also why the christians destroyed idols, acropoli, forums, temples.
Management: management has learned management from the christo-islamic-capitalist system of need to know. The hindu system is one of transparency. On web sites for temples we should be publishing details of all major accounts. Such transparency would remove the charge of corruption. Of course numbers can be manipulated but then there is something concrete to discuss rather than hearsay and accusations. It would be interesting to set up a hindu group to do audits of temples and give a stamp of approval to temples for managment, teaching, etc. Thus creating an international template for a good hindu temple. This would create more politics though and such a body would have to be very transparent. (competing such bodies would add a wealth to the idea of diversity in hinduism.)
hariaum
January 4th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Small temples are needed, but the problem is, if they DID do all these meetings ect, then there is no publicity to show the Hindu public this is what is going on. It’s a bit like shakha, I go there, because i know of it, but others dont go because they dont know about it… to know makes a whole big differnce!
January 5th, 2008 at 10:45 am
bigger temples are needed. We need to house our deities in beatuiful temples of comfort and spendour. our gods should not be housed in small temples unless we do not have funds to build opulient and luscious mandhirs and derasers. All are deities should be given a house where they can feel at home ……. how we serve our saints is important , offer the best if we can , if we can’t then offer with with devotion.
we offer our lord a leaf , but we can offer gold , all is accepted, the temple of our lord is the heart of worship this may be grand or small but why should our lord be any least in this world he is king of heavens and earth and universe so give give the best to our lord let the dieites be given splendour and glitter.
ravi
January 5th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Sejal - I ain’t mad at you, just using capital letters to emphasise the point. Coz with non-verbal communication you can’t change your voice, or use hand gestures etc….
Anyhow… people - temples need to become living centres of our community, places that are relevant not just to go and pray at, but also to learn, take part in activities. Fare enough, it feels nice (for about ten minutes) when you look at or visit a massive monumental temple - but it doesn’t stop Hindus being as confused as ever in the way they conduct their lives, or lack unity, or lack good books on Hinduism.
January 6th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Agree with Dangerous. I’d go further and say that there are probably already enough mandirs in the UK; what is needed now is for them to start doing their job. This is not necessarily meant in a negative or confrontational way - most of the mandirs that I have visited are run by hardworking individuals and groups who are trying their best to do what they honestly believe is best for the community. However, the fact is that as time moves on, the community itself is changing, and so are its needs.
Mandirs do need to change, but for this they need help - from young, dynamic, respectful, understanding individuals who are prepared to put in the work. I fully accept that mandir committees can often be intimidating and often outright obstructive, but it has to be recognised that change is difficult and frightening, and for the older generation, often will be seen as unnecessary or even damaging. The hard work is not that of getting the grants, raising the funding, rounding up the youth, starting or running projects in the mandir, and all the other stuff - the real hard work, and that which the youth need to start taking on, is the slow, complex, often heartsink and frequently soul-destroying, task of building trust and changing views and opinions. It is hard work, but I have seen it done, and it is a whole lot more gratifying than complaining about corrupt, backward, obstructive, disinterested committees. That hasn’t worked in the past; why should it work now? It’s a new year - try a new approach, and let’s make our mandirs provide what we need.
January 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Does anyone remember the following verse from Bhagwat Gita:
” I shall pay for religious rituals, I shall make benefactions, I shall enjoy myself Thus they say in their darkness of delusion”
” In their haughtiness of vain glory, drunk with the pride of their wealth, they offer their wrong sacrifices for ostentation, against devine law”
( Ch 16, Verses 15, 17)
Think before you build another temple.
January 8th, 2008 at 9:27 am
I thought the subject matter was This Big Mandir in Wembley under construction and time/finance taken completing it. But am glad the whole worship of Hinduism is also under discussion. To quote a senior Hare Krishna white member, ‘Hindus do not know how good their Religion is in comparison with other Religions because the way Hindus practise their Religion.’ I agreed with him.
Coming back to the subject, the construction program of the temple, I have observed, is dominated by one person Dr Rughani who has devoted lot of his time and money past eight years. The problem is Rughani is a Doctor/Surgeon used to giving ‘one to one’ service. He is not trained to dealing with other professions who have very diverse knowledge about materials and construction industry. We know the Doctors’ profession is the most egoistic, as it deals with life and death and poor patient has to obey. Dr Rughani is not aware of the fact that in any construction of large building thousands of people of various skills are involved who have their own psychology, family problems, availability of materials made by machines many miles away from the building site with transportation problems. Only Architects are trained for it and are respected for their leadership, especially in UK. Unfortunately Dr Rughani has made himself a client, Architect/programmer, Quantity Surveyor, Structural Engineer, and worst of all a principal negotiator with Council/Planning officers.
This building should not have taken (given the Indian conditions) more than six years from its inception to finish. I wouldn’t be surprised if the temple begins to leak everywhere after winter. In this country believe me water behaves, like God, in a very mysterious way. Appointing an Architects firm with management experience would be a right thing to do and make them accountable to completion of the temple.
January 11th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
I disagree, I feel it is high time we as Hindus look at the broader aspects of after school, after work CULTURAL AND VOCATIONAL [i.e. sports and fun] activities Areas / Halls available to all age groups, with particular attention to the youth.
For that we need to invest big in much bigger regional Mandirs, where in the mandir itself may not be huge - But there are ample areas available for Hindus to use.
Of course a lot of insight, planning and plotting needs to be input before taking on such huge investment[s]. E.g. we can assume right away that a few [adults and youth] will scoff at this suggestion as rediculous.
This is nothing to away from the smaller Mandirs. They play an important role, which they can carry on. They are more accessible as there tends to be one nearby for most people.
Lastly, this is totally the wrong forum to make such a suggestion as the Wembley SDM Mandirs is riddled with gaping problems. All the more reason to rise above the occasion and show our children [and parents] that we can be substantial, that we can deliver Hindutva in UK for us all.
January 14th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Places of worship, regardless of the religion have always ranged from the unobtrusive to the ostentatious. All one has to do it to look at India and see that mandirs range from small enclaves in a street wall with “crude” rocks representing deities to Mandirs that are so large and efficient that they are run with and have an output similar to successful business. In the UK too as Hindus, we have small mandirs firstly in our houses, then small mandirs fashioned from terraced houses and small converted churches and factories to massive neasdan type mandirs.
Size is NOT the issue. My point above shows that mandirs can be large and small. What’s important is that a concerted effort to facilitate the education of our Hindus takes place. The mandir must be a place which actively seeks to empower the youth and engage with the youth. To do this committees must be in touch with the needs of both regular worshipers (older people) and youngsters too.
I have no doubt that a large mandir on the scale of the one being built in Wembley can achieve this. Also, as a religious minority in the UK, we should WANT to display our beautiful mandirs in all their splendour….but as not at the expense of a truly Hindu dharmic experience where one can not only come to pray and listen to the bhajans but also learn about dharma.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:47 am
I am glad Hindus are now asking questions as to why our temples are always small. The main reason is Hindu religion is not doctrinal, dogmatic hence it is not congragational. Like Churches, Mosques and Senegaugs there are no cermons and priests cannot act as gobetween us and God. Our priests are only to perform poojas and retuals on our behalf. Hindu religion is more pesonal that slowly develops personal relationship with our creator and its incarnations, like Vishnu, Shiva, Raam and Krishna. This freedom is given to every person born on this earth. It is only the Abrahamic religions who need to congragate to keep the believers in line with the doctrins as dictated by particular Prophet and in the process lose God given freedom.
In modern times younger gnerations of Hindus want to know the religion, its contents and how one needs to follow it to keep themselve as Hindus. For this common goal there is now need for larger congragational areas within the temples and the priests will have to educate themselves to cope with the demand. Only one person I know, in recent times, who managed to acheive and cater for this demand was Pandurang Shastri Athavale.
The designers of temples are still making mistake by building bigger temples not for congragational purposes but for accommodating more and bigger statues of Gods as believed by the believers. So temples are becoming more as shops than places of worship and learning centres. So the dilema for the worshipper is whether to visit the Temple to fulfill his or her devotion to our creator or like the Abrahamic religons get brainwashed and lose the ‘freedom’ by congragating. In case of Hindu religion it cannot happen because priests still cannot pose themselves as gobetween.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:54 am
There are needs for Hindu educational centres to promote true Hinduism and knowledge about the culture and civilization of India and related countries ( Thailand, Bali, Cambodia, Vietnam, Fiji, Guyana etc) to combat the foul propaganda against Hinduism in the British media.
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Namaste,
Shri Sanatan Mandir is a wonderful project by the UK Hindu community. It will shine the British sky, as a symbol of the world’s most ancient civilization and culture, i.e. Vedic civilization and dharma.
A large architecturally and aesthetically built mandir is always very different than a mandir with dilapidated structures. Bhagavan resides everywhere, then why we need mandirs at all? Small huts are enough to live, why we create large beautifully decorated bangalos or houses? Rishis went to the Himalayas, spent years in tapashya living inside caves, and finally came-out as realised-souls. So, why we need large mandirs?
Like we create beautiful houses for our own, it is but natural to built large mandirs for the wider communities. It is not the matter of show of wealth, it is a matter of proud and feeling. That unique structure mandir will generate a strong sense of identity among the followers, provide a large space for satsang and other spiritual activities. It all depends on the utilization. A resource is not a resource unless it is used (i.e. utility value).
Akshardham mandir complex in Delhi, recently Guiness Book of World Records designated as the worlds largest Hindu mandir, has created a landmark for the national capital city, Delhi. It not only exhibiting our ancient civilization and culture, it also working as magnets to attract millions of people around the world to experience the time-tested Bharatiya/Indic spirituality.
Sri Sanatan Mandir will work as magnets for Indic culture and spirituality in UK/Europe, the way Aksharmdham mandir in Delhi doing in Bharat. In the west today, we have an increasingly large followers of adopted Hindus (undeclared Hindus), who are fascinated by the Indic culture, philosophy and spirituality. What is important, large mandirs like Sri Sanatan must provide Indic culture/spiritual education and outreach. Then only it will carry the full utility values.
Dharma rakshatih rakshitah (Dharma protects those, who protect dharma).
Bharat
====
January 24th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Rubbish again.
These Mandirs are nothing but some kind of business centres. These have nothing to do with religion.
Yes, in India people build huge Mandir, but most people in India have no idea about their religion, they never read their holy books, they have no idea what was written there. That is the reason India is still backward despite of having huge temples.
Muslims have huge Mosques in London. It has created only animicity and hostility towards the Muslims.
Similarly another large Temple would create hostility towards the Hindus and will give false impression about the Hindu religion.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I think before criticising the size of Temples, Mosques, Synegaugs, etc and its effects on indegenous people one has to fully understand the nature and differences between religions.
Abrahamic religons like Judaism, Christianity and Islam are because they are Prophetic religons full of doctrines, commandments, regulations and dictates they are looked at as institutions with political agendas by the indegenous people. Hence some hostility.
At the opening of Swaminarayan Temple in Neasden I think it was Prince Charles (please someone correct me if wrong) said, “The place truely looks like house of God”. To me it proved the Temples have a different feel and cannot develop hostility. As the religion is not dogmatic or doctrinal it cannot have political agenda.
Are Mandirs or Temples ’some kind of business centres’? In Hinduism departing with some of your wealth as offering to God is a very traditional thing to do. English words like donations were never in the minds of Hindus. Like Churches there were never entrance fees nor there were demands of 10% of one’s wealth as in case of Islam.
In old days Maharajas and landlords were the necessary trustees for the upkeep of the Temples. Historically the Moguls and British so heavily taxed the Maharajas and Temples it became a huge burden on the priests of maintaining the institutions and look for funds from other sources.
I agree in this era young Hindus should be provided space and facility for learning Hindu scriptures and develop their lives scripture based than blind faith.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:14 am
I AM SHOCKED TO HEAR ABOUT THE SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS AS NARRATED BY YOUR WEBSITE .SINCE I AM A JOURNALIST,I READ SEVERAL NEWSPAPERS AND NEWSMAGAZINES.BUT NONE OF THESE HAS REOPORTED MISMANAGEMENT AND ALLEGED BUNGLINGS OF FUNDS BY THE TRUSTEES.
THEY SHOULD BE TOLD THAT THEY ARE TARNISHING THE IMAGE OF THEIR RELIGION ABROAD.THEY HAVE LOST TRUST AND CONFIDENCE OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITY,SHOULD BE EXCOMMUNICATED AND PROSECITED UNDER THE LAW.
February 18th, 2008 at 7:15 am
I don’t think there is mismagement or bunglings of funds. The project of this nature where thousands of components are hand carved and especially coming from India takes long time. It is very difficult to put rigid time scale for its completion and more time one takes to finish the project more money it takes as the material and labour costs keep rising.
There must be good hardworking people on site struggling to finish it. It seems there are some interfearing people at the top who have very little knowledge of construction and programming. Such people are normally driven by ambition and ego.
April 17th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
“Construction Project
The trustees have agreed that directors with experience of similar building projects should be appointed to the board of Shrico. Two potential candidates were found, but they had vested interests with suppliers and therefore could not be appointed. The charity is still seeking suitable candidates.
The allegations about the misapplication of funds between the charity and its subsidiary companies appears to have been based on a misunderstanding about the relationship between the charity and its subsidiary companies and misinformation about the cost of the marble.
Funds have not been misappropriated. See Charity Commission report.
“The Commission examined the financial records for the charity, Shrico Ltd, and Shrico Vallabh Marble Ltd for the period in question. There is no evidence to suggest that any funds have been misappropriated. The charity has implemented more rigorous financial controls in the UK to satisfy the trustees and the public that the charity’s funds are properly applied”
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/investigations/inquiryreports/davidrich.asp
June 6th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
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