Newsletter: Well fargo financial bank credit card Omni credit card machine Business card credit deal Bad business credit loan small start up Credit repair letter Oklahoma home equity loan Hsbc credit card philippine Annual credit free law report Federal government student loan Find best credit card rate Bad car credit loan used California home loan new Credit card debt consolodation Bad credit mortgage loan in florida California bad credit car loan Free credit report credit card Credit card machine with check reader Free credit check no credit card needed Balance card credit transfer Bad credit home purchase loan Cheap credit card processing Fast loan online payday Consolidation credit debt help Debt consolidation loan for home owner Consolidation credit debt loan poor Wyoming student loan corporation Eligibility home loan va Card credit debt help online Uk personal secured loan Apply canada card credit new york Georgia mortgage home loan Colorado home mortgage refinance loan Low apr credit card uk Business credit rating Guaranteed business credit card Citibank home equity loan Home equity loan for mobile home Bad credit fix report Florida home loan Broker home loan mortgage refinance Free sex no credit card needed Bad consolidation credit debt loan ok Instant access credit card Debt consolidation utah 0 approval card credit instant Refinance home equity loan Debt consolidation loan without owning a home Bad card credit master unsecured visa Home equity loan in california Business card company credit small Free credit card for people with bad credit New york mortgage home loan Secured credit card fast Accept credit card payment Bad credit car financing Application card college credit student Home equity loan vs line of credit Alberta loan student Auto bad car credit loan used Canadian credit card application Loan for people with bad credit rating No fee secured credit card Ingenico credit card machine Bad card company credit debt Credit card debt consolidation company Bad credit home loan refinance Faxless loan payday quick California home loan program refinancing Instant payday loan completely online Chase universal credit card Indiana bad credit auto loan Teen credit card debt statistics Texas home equity loan refinancing Home mortgage loan rate Fake credit card numbers Secured credit card uk Cash loan online payday Minnesota debt consolidation loan Family credit counseling corporation Credit score simulator Free experian credit score and report Negotiate with credit card company Fax loan no no payday teletrack Bad credit car loan new york Card college credit debt Online credit card application Consolidation loan debt reduction Bad card credit credit gas 1000 advance cash loan payday Free credit repair form Accept credit card cheap How to start a credit card company Consumer counseling credit debt management Apply online kohls credit card By credit free law report Bad credit secured card Free debt consolidation company Good credit rating score Instant approval credit card canada Good credit rating Approval card credit instant student Credit repair company My free annual credit report com us loan mortgage 100 credit free report Union plus credit card Gas credit card application Credit card merchant account program Bank of america personal loan Credit report score First time home buyer loan Bad credit debt consolidation mortgage Credit free report service Free 3 bureau credit report and score Bad credit home loan score Bad credit debt consolidation Accept credit card payment on line Bird counseling credit humming Experian credit report bureau Best consolidation debt service No credit card car rental Calculator card consolidation debt credit Average american credit score Loan services student Compare credit card Credit card swipe machine Instant credit card number Car loan bad credit history Company loan student Credit free once report year Consolidation debt non organization profit National foundation for credit counseling Auto loan bad credit car loan Free credit card debt consolidation Faxless loan missouri payday Accept card credit line payment 1000 advance loan payday Bad credit equity loan Bill card consolidation credit Texas home equity loan law Citibank student loan consolidation Application card credit sears usa Balance transfer credit card for bad credit Approval bad card credit instant Uk bad credit credit card loan Best free debt consolidation service Bad credit loan mortgage Free cell phone without credit card Providian credit card services Guaranteed instant loan personal unsecured New york home equity loan Loan student subsidized Computer easy financing bad credit Personal debt consolidation loan uk Christian counseling credit service Bank of scotland credit card Consolidation debt lead mortgage 0 credit card offer Retail credit card processing Good credit score range Bad credit consolidation loan 0 apr credit card application Instant approve credit card 0 credit card with no balance transfer fee Federal direct student loan consolidation Card consolidation credit debt reduction Card credit mbna platinum plus Low interest rate personal loan Experian credit report dispute Bad credit mortgage canada 200 loan no payday telecheck teletrak Mortgage debt consolidation loan company California home loan teacher Unsecured loan for people with bad credit American consumer credit Card credit fixed interest low rate Credit card application online Bad credit mortgage loan ohio Home loan mortgage new quote California home loan refinancing California bad credit mortgage Aspen card card credit gold master Business card compare credit offer small Debt consolidation services Credit card high limit instant approval Cell phone no credit card needed 3 bureau online credit report Card citibank credit offshore uae Credit card fraud law Alternative loan student College loan bad credit Beacon credit free report score Apply card credit virgin Acs loan services student 2nd bad credit financing mortgage Approval card credit instant visa Bank of america credit card payment Current home loan rate Business gas credit card Consolidation counseling credit debt service Home loan cleveland ohio Credit equifax online report Bad credit unsecured personal loan Accept credit card on your web site Chase credit card account Premier credit card California debt consolidation Instant response student credit card Free annual credit report law Best personal loan Card credit master tribute California debt consolidation loan State bank of india credit card Equity georgia home loan rate 0 card credit introductory offer Instant response credit card No fee credit card Brunswick home loan new Compare credit card rate Credit card repair company Home loan mortgage rate refinance Dispute credit report online Find the best deal on credit card Bank first credit card Shell credit card online payment Card credit minimum payment Texas home loan Credit equifax personal report Bad credit refinancing Fight credit card company com Alabama home loan 0 apr card credit no Card chevron credit payment Bad consolidation credit debt help Bad card credit history visa Countrywide home loan payment Business card credit start up New jersey home equity loan Corp loan sc student Bank of america credit card services Credit line report 100 bad credit financing mortgage Payday loan personal Christian credit counseling san antonio Bad credit mortgage quote Home savings and loan bank Credit card services Application bad card credit Compare business credit card Card credit free report Loan personal credit Equifax business credit report Credit equifax report Interest loan low personal Best cash rebate credit card 0 advance card cash credit Student credit card online Consumer credit debt consolidation I have bad credit need a loan Debt consolidation information Debt consolidation program Card credit free no porn required video Ez payday loan Credit free nc report Repair credit with debt settlement Credit repair law High credit score Advance loan online payday Consumer credit council Western union prepaid credit card Federal student loan forgiveness First premier credit card services Credit report company Va home loan rate Canada student loan 0 card credit intrest rate Auto bad california credit loan Aspire credit card online Consolidation credit debt loan poor Credit card instant credit Card consolidation credit loan Credit free report yearly Defaulted loan student Reducing credit card debt Christian consolidation counseling credit debt Credit score rating Bad credit used car loan Home equity loan rate comparison Bad credit history mortgage Bad credit home loan need Bad credit bill consolidation loan Canada consolidation debt free Bad credit unsecured personal loan Calculator card credit payment Business card credit processing small Home loan for people with bad credit Direct government student loan Federal loan payment student Card credit debt unsecured Best travel reward credit card Credit card rate Babyphat prepaid credit card Government grants on student loan Instant credit repair Canadian credit free online report Home loan refinance rate Wachovia credit card login Apply best buy card credit Bad credit home equity loan Consumer credit counseling service First financial bank credit card Bad credit repair report Rhode island home equity loan Card consolidation credit debt Wachovia credit card Payday loan uk Consumer credit services Loan student suntech 610 credit mortgage score second Instant approval credit card application Payday loan utah Consumer credit information Dispute item on credit report Report credit card fraud Free uk online credit report Guaranteed loan online personal Perfect credit score Add consolidation debt link Card credit payment shell Christian debt consolidation program Secured platinum credit card Loan reconsolidation student Company credit rating Connecticut bad credit mortgage Card chase credit song Home loan mortgage refinance Florida home jacksonville loan Credit card consolidation best deal Check credit report identity theft Broker consolidation debt lead mortgage Credit card and student loan consolidation Credit history repair report Credit card debt help Consumer credit help Repair your own credit Online gambling credit card Credit card debt consolidation service Chase credit card service No fee secured credit card uk Uk credit card company Acs loan payment student Free porn without credit card Chevron gas credit card Business card consolidation credit debt Application card credit instant response Credit counseling chicago Credit card number generator Bad construction credit home loan Bureau credit report Bad credit in loan mortgage wisconsin Credit card machine company Bad credit special finance car loan Consolidation credit debt poor 3 in 1 credit report Home equity loan interest rate Well fargo home equity loan Small business credit card processing Copy credit free report Credit repair consultant Debt consolidation mortgage uk Credit card bad debt uk Bad credit guarantee loan mortgage Personal credit rating Va home loan calculator Consolidation debt guaranteed loan unsecured American express black credit card Apply card credit online uk Bad credit card application Bad card credit credit uk Instant credit card approval with no credit Free porn video no credit card Fleet credit card online Consolidation interest loan rate student Loan repayment student Home equity loan Free porn site no credit card Home equity loan calculator Bakersfield california home loan Free credit check without credit card Buyer california first home loan time Debt consolidation equity loan Clean credit report Refurbished credit card machine Free credit card generator Credit card counseling Loan student Consumer credit and debt counseling Get credit card with no credit 3 credit score Consolidation debt five free in Card com credit online providian Card credit mbna secured Bc loan student Consolidation credit debt management Credit repair law firm Refinance federal student loan Card credit interest low offer Zero percent credit card offer Used mobile home loan Home equity bad credit Bad credit home mortgage loan Instant credit card processing Debt consolidation home equity loan Ameriloan payday loan 0 balance card credit life transferŕ?? ŕ?? Capital one bank credit card Bad credit mortgage broker Equity florida home loan Bank card card credit juniper master Corporation finance loan student Financing home loan mobile Bad credit fix repair report Federal student loan interest rate Commercial credit counseling Credit free pennsylvania report Card credit customer discover service Bad credit government loan mortgage Debt consolidation calculator Canada consolidation debt loan loan student Lending loan online personal Bad credit cash advance California home loan purchase Guaranteed bad credit loan Home equity 2nd mortgage loan Consolidation debt loan uk Consumer federal credit union Accept credit card on the web Consolidation counseling credit debt Card card continental credit finance master Day loan payday quick same California christian debt consolidation California home loan mortgage mortgage Equifax consumer credit report Card chase credit disney visa Bad consolidation credit Credit card reward point Free annual credit score New home loan Balance card credit offer transfer Credit free jersey new report Citibank business credit card Unsecured credit card Bank card credit secured us Free credit report texas Free cell phone no credit card California home loan mortgage rate Bad credit credit card uk Canadian business credit card Business application credit form Credit score chart Guaranteed loan student texas Mortgage with bad credit chicago 0 apr credit card offer High risk debt consolidation loan Countrywide customer home loan service United airline credit card Consolidation direct federal loan student Loan program repayment student Payday loan forum Bad credit lender Fleet credit card pay online California second mortgage home loan Consumer counseling counselor credit credit credit fix help Fha home improvement loan Increasing credit score Online credit card machine Get free credit score Bad consolidation credit debt mortgage Home loan albany new york Card consolidation credit debt online Business card credit small Canadian prepaid credit card Car loan student Free credit card processing Credit repair information Fitch credit rating Credit free online report uk Consolidating student loan Bad canada card credit Card credit first premier secured Accepting credit card for business Application canadian credit card secured Credit card fraud penalties Business credit insurance Application business card credit small Card credit merchant service Home loan mortgage mortgage refinance Bad credit loan mortgage ohio Credit card debt calculator Bad business credit en language loan Card consolidation credit credit debt free report resource Raleigh credit card processing company California home loan mortgage second southern Bad credit school loan Card credit report Forgiveness loan program student Direct loan servicing student Home loan mortgage rate City bank credit card Discover student credit card Trafalgar home loan American express small business credit card Countrywide equity home loan Access credit report online Credit score ranking Credit card phone numbers Citi bank credit card Credit score and mortgage rate Aes student loan Consolidation federal government loan student Washington home loan Fix bad credit Cheap credit card deal Capital one credit card reward Credit card debt after death Best credit card company Credit union master card online Fraud credit card company Fina gas credit card Debt consolidation loan calculator Bad credit help Paperless payday loan Bad credit home loan washington Free cellular phone no credit card required Bad credit home loan va Credit counseling in arizona Instant approval bad credit card Low cost personal loan Card credit depot home payment Best fixed rate credit card Debt and bill consolidation Card credit credit degree loan online report Debt consolidation loan fast Alberta credit counseling Home interest loan rate va Wal mart credit card Auto bad bankruptcy credit loan Best credit card after bankruptcy Bad credit card Credit card repair Credit counseling san diego Consumer credit counseling debt consolidation Online payday loan application Online shopping credit card Consumer credit counseling ohio Fixed home equity loan Consolidation debt loan payday

Be wary of English translations of Hindu scriptures

Most Hindus living in the West have an urge at one point in their lives to learn about Hinduism. Sometimes the curiosity arises from a genuine desire for guidance in life. In other cases the urge to look into Hinduism comes from a particular incident – for example being asked questions that we’re not able to answer. There may be any number of different starting points to an individual’s quest.

CLICK HERE TO READ REST OF ARTICLE

 

39 Responses to “Be wary of English translations of Hindu scriptures”

  1. v.c.krishnan Says:

    Dear Sir,
    I understand your ire at the translations. You must understand that for a person to communicate and grow from ignorance to knowledge and come out of his stupor, knowledge should be made available in the language he understood. The best available at that time was what was published by Max Mueller and others.
    You must also understand that they came from a alien place and that too a “Barbaric Place” which could not understand the graciousness contained in the Vedas and Upanishads.
    Today we have great western thinkers who have come out of the mould of that way of thinking and are able to relate , may be even “Better” than some of our Indian english transalators.
    I would like to add here that Maharishi Aurobindo, Swami Vivekananda, Swami Chinmayananda Guruji Sri Sri Ravishankaretc. are not difficult to uinderstand, if one really applies his mind from the Indian way of life. Definetely, from a western way of thinking it would be difficult.
    I can also add here that the writings of the Sankaracharya Chandrasekara Sarswathi Swamigal of the Kanchi Mutt, who has has written extensively, on Hinduism is very easy to undersatnd and very lucid.
    Regards,
    vck

  2. murlidhar pahoja Says:

    Translations, no matter how well written, do lose some amount of original meaning. There can be no substitute for reading the scriptures in original. It is time, Hindus realised the importance and greatness of Sanskrit language. All Hindus must learn at least some Sanskrit. This would enable them to follow at least Ramayana and Mahabharata. These epics cover the basic features of Hindu Philosophy required in daily life. Ultimately there is no alternative to our accepting and adopting Sanskrit as our language if we are serious about bringing our Hindu civilisation back to the Jagadguru status.

  3. Dr v.V.Shirvaikar Says:

    I agree with VCK.

    Actually we must be inbedted to the 19th and 20th century western scholars for the translations. The literature was first made available to all by them first; until then it was taboo to read most of it for non-Brahmins. However, except for the actual vedic Samhitas the upanishad translations have been published by many indians, especially those sponsored by ramkrishna Math, Chinmaya math and shivanand Swami’s organization. The reinterpretation of rigveda has been published by Shrikant talgeri and is a monumental work. So are the publications of Davis Frawley. P.L. Bhargava’s “Retrieval of history from Puranas (D.K Pub Delhi) Opens our eyes to the kind of corruption made by Puranics lika Suta and Sauti to Mahabharat adding anachrinistic tales to the original text. Tough we lau the pr4esent Mhabharat as a storehouse of anecdotes, what most prople do not realize is that while increasing the text volume nearly ten times they also have distorted the basic historical framework and presentd a distorted picture. In an attempt to present Rama and Krishna as avatars of Vishnu they have written as if both were aware of it during their lifetimes and have thus created ridiculous situations. We do recognize them as avatars because of the great work they have done for mankind but to say that they knew they were avatars is definitely ridiculous for avatar is always a posthumous designation. But very few people, fearing they may be commiting a sinby such words express their doubts.

    scholars like M.R.Yardi and Bhargava have even shown that even Gita is not original, at least not all of it.

    But all this has been possible only because these western scholars began to translate. otherwise peole not knowing Sanskrit would never have known anything about these works.

    I understand Hindu Voice UK is starting a project on Hindu history.
    I would suggest they should take up cleansing of the Epics and other texts from the corruptions mentioned above and prepare a purified version of Mahabharata, Ramyana and the puranas as a priority in order to take the Hindus out of the mire of misplaced beliefs.

    Shirvaikar

  4. Sejal Vara Says:

    I understand what the writer was trying to say, however, some of us may be “forced” to read the translations like me. The reason is that i lack the ability to read and write in Hindi and Gujarati. I can speak it, but not read it. I have had the motive or personal desire to read the religeous scriptures. I attempted it once, but it made very very little sense to me. Its hard to understand. So i decided to stop where i was. Either i think im too young to make understandings of the scriptures, or the translations makes it too hard.
    What would you suggest to someone in a very awkward position like me?

  5. Kiran Says:

    I agree with all of the three above commentators.
    Thanks to them that many western scientist like Tesla, Einstein and many many others were able to read and spread the greatness of Hindu philosophy.

    Today we have a vast resource of translation from so many sources.
    But how do we know which ones are good or bad correct or incorrect?

    So any good translation of any Hindu books or links you have would be useful to those still discovering Hindus Dharma.

  6. Kadimipuli Porumannana Says:

    If people don’t want to rely on English translations then why don’t they learn to read and write their mother tongue (Tamil, Gujarati whatever), these languages also have Ramayana and Mahabharat translated (well many are not strictly translated) in them, like for example Ramcharitmanas in Awadhi by Tulsidas is very different from the way Valmiki narrated it but nonetheless its considered a classic of Hindi literature.

    Send your kids (or go yourself) to learn to read and write your language so that you don’t regret it later, many sikhs send their kids to learn to read and write in Gurmukhi script since it helps them to read SGGS (understanding it is a whole different topic since most of it is not in Punjabi), it’s useless to lament later on in life (when it becomes much more harder to learn new languages) when the kid hasn’t learned the language early on in life.

  7. Sejal Vara Says:

    Kadimipuli Porumannana, I am a kid, but im on the regretting it bit. I tried at a younger age, and gave up because i depeneded on English more. Im only doing my GCSE, and the frist step i tried to take was to do GCSE in Gujarati, but my teachers messed up as they didnt find me a Gujarati teacher. So i missed out… and im stuck… i don’t want to go to a private school because thet cost a bomb to go to, and in my originial school, teachers messed it up for me….

    what should i do considering these things aswel?

  8. Nehru Lall Says:

    The difficulty of understanding any Religion (more so Hinduism) is not just a question of translation from one language to the next but also a question of interpretation within the original language itself. For example both Shankara and Ramanuja were sanskrit scholars and read classical works in sanskrit on Hinduism but in many cases they came to different conclusions. What this shows is that we bring something of our own creativity to the printed text. It is good that Westerners are enquiring and writing about Hinduism, but we must educate ourselves in order to discriminate propaganda from serious scholarship. We should be in no doubt that there are some Westerners who study sanskrit in order to interpret Hindu scriptures to discredit them - for this reason Hindu scholars need to be on the lookout for distortation of Hinduism and expose it for the benifit of the lay community.

  9. Kiran Says:

    Sejal

    Keep on reading!
    We all started with knowing nothing.
    You dont need to learn Gujarati to study Hindusim.

    Keep an eye on my website
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hinduinfo/
    The links I put up can be very educational.
    Browse through the many posts Ive put up.
    or search for specific articles eg type in ‘bhagvad gita’ and see what comes up.

  10. Navin Says:

    Don’t trust any book.

    Every thing is just a thing. It can guide you and help you on your path but no thing is the path. Life is the path. The things you color your life with are ornaments, not a bad thing, but to see them as more than ornaments is a bad thing. What is important is a continued search for Truth, for spiritual awareness, and for bliss (satcitananda). That search is internal with tools given to us from the external world to avoid egoism.

    Some books are clearly better at this than others. But don’t just accept a book.

    On a social level, critics of books are needed and this review is a nice demonstration of how power is used to create avidya. Thus talking to those who know more is also very important.

    Read all the scriptures from those who write from within the tradition. Then analyze them all with care, devotion, and historical context.

    We are given mind/intellect, memory/books/internet, and guru. Use all of these to realize self but remember, each of these has bias.

    hariaum

  11. Satya Says:

    Another excellent article by Sheena Patel - many thanks. I enjoyed particularly the balanced approach, brought out particularly in the closing two paragraphs - be wary of English translations of Hindu scriptures … but don’t necessarily discount them completely. There are a number of good resources for interested students of Hinduism, but one needs to be guided as to where to look (isn’t that essentially what gurus have always done anyway?) In addition, whatever resource on uses, be it an introductory text, a scripture translation/interpretation or a more advanced commentary, as Navin says, ultimately, the only person you need to answer to is yourself - so take everything with a pinch of salt and ultimately, trust your own intellect, your own conscience and your own soul. The Divine within constantly talks to us - all we need to do is listen.

  12. A.Moron Says:

    Although I am sympathetic to the writer, but I need to say that the translations made by Indians including the Yogis and Saints are unreadable. Because they include the original Sanskrit, then their comments and interpretations and then the translations in very wooden English. As a result you will get 500 pages for Bhagwat Gita, who is going to read that. Also their English is so bad that one would fall asleep while reading.

    For example the translations by Juan Mascaro for Bhagwat Gita and Upanishad are easy to read, compare that to the translations made by Vaktivedanta Pravupad of ISKON—absolutely unreadable.

    The same is true about the translation of Rig Veda by Ralph Griffith, a very easy book to read and try any translations and interpretations written by Sri Aurobindo—impossible to read.

    i guess most Hindus try to read the translations made by the Indians and as a result they are completely put off and never bother to read again and stay ignorant about their Religion.

  13. sushil Says:

    Those who want to know more of the conniving and premeditated plot to distort Hindu Religion and Culture and want a Hindu viewpoint of history
    would like to read “The True History And the Religion of India” by His Divinity Swami Prakashanand Saraswati [ www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org or www.jkp.org ]

  14. Satya Says:

    I think it interesting to see the problem with generalisation. As A.Moron correctly points out, there are many translations written by Hindus that are quite frankly dull, uninspiring and often quite poor - should not a translator have at least a reasonable grasp of the language they are translating into? However, it would be equally wrong to try to claim that this is true of ALL Hindu-written translations; there are a number of very good ones out there and I think it does a disservice to them and to us all to fail to take this into account. Similarly, it is quite evident that not all Western translations are so bad, indeed some translations, interpretations and commentaries by Westerners are very useful.

    Incidentally, on a related note, it is interesting to note the still ongoing debate over Romila Thapar’s expertise in Sanskrit - it has been alleged many times by various different commentators that she does not know Sanskrit, an allegation that, to the best of my knowledge, she has still never actually responded to. Not that this necessarily makes a great deal of difference - after all, she is a historian, not a linguist - or does it?

  15. Kadimipuli Porumannana Says:

    “different commentators that she does not know Sanskrit, an allegation that, to the best of my knowledge, she has still never actually responded to. Not that this necessarily makes a great deal of difference - after all, she is a historian, not a linguist - or does it?”

    She neither knows Sanskrit nor Tamizh, the two languages that can be counted as essential to know to pass off as an “expert” ancient India, it wouldn’t be so bad if she didn’t make laughable assertions without knowing neither language.

    To take an example:

    “Thapar claims that the Aryans were curious
    about the elephant and called it mriga
    hastin, the animal with one hand.[67] Why
    not? After all, the Aryans invaded India
    from outside, and the elephant, an Indian
    animal, should have been new to them.
    Naturally, this should mean that the
    Dravidians, who Thapar implies[68] were
    the earlier residents of IVC/SSC, must
    have been more familiar with the elephant
    ahead of the Aryans, right?”

    “Those familiar with Tamil as well as
    Sanskrit can see on what pathetic
    scholarship Thapar’s argument[78] regards
    mriga hastin is concocted. The Tamil word
    for the elephant’s trunk is puzhaikkai, as
    in literary Tamil or tumpikkai, as in the
    colloquial. This means, freely translated,
    tubular hand. Would Thapar argue that the
    elephants were unknown to the Dravidians
    as well, as they didn’t have a generic
    name for its most distinctive part? These
    methods of history writing are
    inscrutable, and devoid of any logic!

    http://www.indiastar.com/venkat1.html

  16. Satya Says:

    Interesting, but yet another example of what actually amounts to little more than conjecture and allegation - is there any solid evidence either way of Thapar’s knowledge of Sanskrit or lack thereof? Likewise, is anyone else aware of any definitive response given by Thapar to direct questioning on this point?

  17. A.Moron Says:

    Well, if you dig a little you can find out that Romila Thaper wrote her thesis on Mughal India, not on Ancient India. Even then she knew no Persian or Arabic, essential for a historian of the Mughal India.
    Then suddenly she became an expert of Ancient India, without knowing Sanskrit, Pali or Prakit; these are essential for a historian specialised on Ancient India.
    Irfan Habib also wrote his PhD thesis on Mughal Indias agriculture, but now without any knowledge of Sanskrit he is considered to be an expert on ancient India.
    These are the levels of scholarships of these people.

  18. Satya Says:

    I could be mistaken, but I’m fairly sure that Prof Thapar’s doctoral research was on the Mauryas (done under the renowned A L Basham); indeed her first major publication on Ashoka was, I believe, a development of her thesis work. This would place her qualifications firmly in the realms of ancient Indian history. Of course, this does indeed present problems when she tries to comment so authoritatively on medieval history - in what way is she qualified, for instance, to comment on the motivations of Mahmud Ghazni?

    Whilst all this is quite interesting however, the point remains - yet again, we have another instance of unsubstantiated allegation. Merely stating that Thapar (or anyone else) does not know Sanskrit is meaningless. Is there any actual evidence of this, or at the very least, is there any definitive statement from Prof Thapar herself on the topic?

  19. Navin Says:

    Our Gita discussion group uses several translations and keeps a sanskrit-english dictionary around to try and get past the problems with translation. Then the discussion of the group helps to alleviate questions. The satsang is a solution to the translation problem.

    hariaum

  20. A.Moron Says:

    Satya:
    Yes, I was wrong, Romila Thaper wrote her PhD thesis in London University on Asoke and Maurya Dynasty, but without having any knowledge of the classical languages ( Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrit) of India.
    Below I quote from one of the protest letters to the Library of Congress after Thaper was appointed as the Professor of Ancient Indian History:
    “1. Linguistic Skills: From her own public admissions, we know that Prof. Thapar is ignorant of classical languages of India - Pali/Prakrit, Tamil.[1] Her knowledge of Sanskrit, the lingua franca of literate communities in ancient India, is quite rudimentary. Of the four linguistic groups of India viz., Tibeto-Burman, Dravidian, Austro-Asiatic and Indo-Aryan,[2] she has little or no familiarity with the first three, and a fragmentary knowledge of the last. As a result, she is unable to do any reasonable linguistic analysis in her writings.

    The Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), with which she has been affiliated with for most of her career, had actually scuttled efforts to teach the classical languages of India within their premises, on the grounds that teaching Sanskrit will promote Hindu revivalism! Her own aversion towards Sanskrit is well known and documented. ”

    “3. Lack of skills in Paleography, Epigraphy and Related Fields: Inscriptions from ancient India are encountered in a myriad scripts. Mrs. Thapar cannot read more than 1 or 2 of these scripts. There do exist sources such as Epigraphia Indica, which give the text of these inscriptions. However, it is well known that the volumes are not updated regularly. Moreover, serious scholars often prefer to visit the sites of these and examine the evidence afresh.[8] Her critics have shown that Prof. Thapar has actually managed to distort even the evidence available from the Epigraphia Indica.[9]

    Many Indian texts are still in manuscript - there are an estimated four million manuscripts in Indian libraries. These texts are often written in scripts that are no longer used. Prof. Thapar cannot read these manuscripts, and especially where the texts have not been published/translated yet, this is a serious lacuna. It may be noted that Prof. Thapar has not edited a single Indic text directly from manuscripts.

    4. Incompetence in Archaeology: Prof. Thapar participated in two small archaeological excavations about 35 years ago, but thereafter, she has not benefited from the immense amounts of archaeological data being unearthed by professionals in India year after year, especially in recent years. In fact, she and a few other fellow Marxist-Muslim historians have been at constant loggerheads with the archaeological survey of India for almost a decade now, because newly emerging data tends to be at variance with Marxist-Muslim paradigms of Indian history. Recently, she, along with a few other Marxist-Muslim historians even advocated a total moratorium on archaeological excavations in India for the next couple of years because the Indian archaeology establishment is allegedly ’saffronized’[10] and their work can boost sectarian tensions.

  21. Satya Says:

    A.Moron, many thanks for the above - an interesting piece. I would be particularly interested to find out the details of “her own public admissions” that are mentioned in point 1. It is certainly true that thus far, JNU do not teach Sanskrit; however as I understand it, they are planning to introduce this, along with several other languages in their expanding School Of Languages. Either way, unless some evidence is given of a deliberate move to sideline Sanskrit on “secular” (sic) grounds, this still gives us only a very weak argument. I would also be interested in details of “her own aversion towards Sanskrit [that is] well known and documented”.

    Point 3 again gives no actual evidence but merely makes unsubstantiated accusations; as for not having edited manuscripts, again I remind you that she is a historian, not a linguist. As for her critics showing her to have distorted evidence, is it not simply the case that evidence being limited, as it certainly is, interpretations may well substantially differ?

    Similarly, she is also not an archaeologist, so physically attending digs is arguably irrelevant, as long as she has access to the findings and is qualified to interpret them; more to the point, is there any evidence from her work, either written or spoken, that she has deliberately ignored the archaeological developments of recent times?

    Incidentally, on a slight tangent, I recall visiting JNU 7 or 8 years back and meeting with some of the ABVP members there. At that time, the ABVP were having a quite big surge of popularity in JNU and were, in fact, the controlling party in the JNU Students Union. There was also a daily RSS shakha going on there at that time with a quite large membership and high regular attendance. Some of the ABVP/shakha leaders there were, ironically enough, postgraduate students of Prof Thapar herself. It was most interesting talking to them about their experiences. If anyone has any more recent knowledge of the state of play in the JNU student body, I would be interested to know how things have progressed.

  22. NRI bar Steward Says:

    Considering that that the “history” of ancient india was derieved from the english translations of sanskrit (all three forms) inscriptions found on pillars, on stone structures, within caves on and on leaves, it seems incredulous that someone who is supposed to be the “expert” on ancient india does not have a facility for the language of the time.

    Would someone who is a writer on ancient Egypt have no understanding of the heiroglyphs???

    If you are a historian of an ancient civilization then a mastery of that civiliation’s language (the philology) is a must

    Thappar and her ilk from JNU have been “pulling the wool” over the eyes of all Hindus who are interested in the history of the land before the Moguls came.

    Her works and her bias has been left wing and revisionist to say the least.

    Anything this woman writes should be regarded with suspician - I mean she still believes that some white skinned natives from scandanavia came and discovered us all…

    I have a copy of her book on the History of India - It comes in very handy as a doorstopper….

    Satya are you are communist???

  23. Satya Says:

    Am I a Communist..? Not that I’m aware of. I understand where people are coming from when they state (oh so knowledgeably!) that Marxism works in theory but not in practice, but having read Marx at University, I personally don’t even think his ideas work in theory. Equally, I can certainly understand the frustrations that can lead to constructing such theories, but in that understanding, I also see how those frustrations act to impair objectivity and so lead to misinterpretation and faulty analysis. Ironically enough, it is quite similar frustrations that lead to many of the interpretations of history provided by Hindutva ’scholars’, which in their essential structure and style are not at all dissimilar from orthodox Marxist theory.

    Anyway, I don’t think that is why (or even ‘what’) you were asking. I’m assuming you ask the question because of misinterpretation of what I have said above regarding Prof Thapar. My point is not to defend her; far from it. I have myself had several run-ins with Prof Thapar and indeed when I say that she has been challenged directly by many people regarding her knowledge of Sanskrit (or lack thereof), I am one of those people. Like Sita Ram Goel, Arun Shourie, Koenraad Elst and many others, I have also challenged her on numerous other points, none of which she has, thus far, adequately responded to. However, the fact is that the only way to ultimately win such an argument is to find definitive proof, rather than mere unsubstantiated allegation (which is all that is being offered so far), of her shortcomings. It is for this reason that I may appear to be defending her above - if I, who am sympathetic to the arguments being put forward, can find holes in those arguments, how much easier must it be for the Thapars and Habibs of the world to utterly destroy such baseless arguments?

  24. A.Moron Says:

    The historians of JNU, Delhi and Aligarh are following the Pakistani historians. They hate everything Hindu, glorify the Muslim period, follow the Congress party propaganda about the freedom movement and get good positions.
    According to them Ramayana and Mahabharata are all myths, Hinduism is not a religion as such, but a way of life, combination of diverse views with thousands of deities. Unfortunately the Hindus in Britain due to the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu propaganda of the British media are strongly influenced by these false ideas.

  25. Prahalad Says:

    re: Unfortunately the Hindus in Britain due to the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu propaganda of the British media are strongly influenced by these false ideas.

    Stop typing crap moron it’s you dumb Indians who are influenced more which is why you’d rather be ruled by gori maa sonia gandhi.

  26. A.Moron Says:

    The Hindus in Britain due to the anti-Indian and anti-Hindu propaganda of the British media are strongly influenced by these false ideas.
    This is fact. Only yesterday I was talking to one guy by telephone from London , who knows no one but only Gandhi and Nehru in the Indian history, does not know the geography of India, read only Romila Thaper for ancient India. However, he is one of the best educated Hindu from Britain. I have seen much worse among the science or engineering or accountacy graduates of Hindu British, who feel very much ashamed to be a Hindu, and try their best to adopt a British name like Sam or Jonny or Ron etc etc.
    British media went mad for the last few days when Brown went to India and said some nice things. British media is now trying their best to prove Indians are all “Piss-Poor”, starving on the Ghats of Varanasi. If someone would read that everyday and get blamed for the violence caused by the Pakistanis in Britain, of course would feel very bad about himself and his identity.
    I know one British Hindu who always try to say in public that he is from Mexico, because the British would otherwise blame him as a Jihadi. This is a real tragedy

  27. Satya Says:

    On the other hand, it is worth noting that the founders and editors of Hindu Voice UK are all British Hindus - or perhaps you are trying to say that they too are uneducated, out of touch with their roots and whatever else it is you may decide you ‘know’ about British Hindus from your vast knowledge and experience of the subject..?

  28. Kadimipuli Porumannana Says:

    Right and Indian Hindus are so much better ….

    Thats why they elected Sonia Mata to rule over them or do nothing after every attack on Hinduism.

    Anecdotal evidence is dime a dozen, just yesterday I had a friend in Cali email his uni’s indian club about what movies they should show, he started the email with Namaste and ended it with Jai Sri Ram, the reply he got back had “Thanks” in it, he is US born and bred and the girl is some Delhi chick who is here for studies.

    It was British Hindus who got those Minelli shoes withdrawn wasn’t it through peaceful protest, what exactly did the Indian Hindus do about that?

    So it goes both ways and in Bharat Romila Thapar is part of the curriculum, here at least we get to choose what we read.

  29. Kiran Says:

    It was British Hindus who got those Minelli shoes withdrawn wasn’t it through peaceful protest, what exactly did the Indian Hindus do about that?

    probably burnt an effigy! :)

    sorry couldnt resist that one.
    Thats all we see on the News.

    Shilpa burn the effigy
    Cricket burn the effigy
    Bollywood film they dont like burn the effigy
    whats with effigies!
    is that right spelling!

  30. Satya Says:

    Yet another fight about who’s a better Hindu. If it’s not “I’m a better Hindu because I’m vegetarian”, it’s “I’m a better Hindu because I’m Indian”. How, one wonders, do any of us expect Hindu unity when we take every possible opportunity to put down fellow Hindus?

    Consider as an illustration, if your brother struggles with his schoolwork, do you ridicule him in public or do you help him to improve - not only out of brotherly love, but also knowing that his failure is equally your own shame?

    I do not say that this is the case, but let us, for the sake of discussion, accept that British Hindus are losing their culture, faith and heritage. Whilst this reflects badly on British Hindus themselves, is this not equally a sad reflection on all Hindus, including those in India? After all, the vast majority of people around the world will judge Hindus (and India) not on the basis of the Indian scenario, but on the merits (or demerits) of their own local experiences of the diaspora.

    With all due respect, therefore, my humble suggestion is that rather than trying to prove ourselves superior by belittling our own brothers and sisters, we help each other as we are able, and we learn from each other where we can.

  31. A.Moron Says:

    I am not suggesting that Indian Hindus are more knowledgable than British Hindus regarding Hinduism. Both of them are very ignorant.

    British Hindus have certainly more opportunity than Indian Hindus to learn about Hinduism, as they have computers and can easily buy excellent English translations of most Hindu scriptures. So my question is why is it that they do not want to read those Hindu scriptures but express their own ideas always as Hinduism.

    Indian Hindus also do that. However, one can excuse the Indian Hindus as most of us are either illiterate or have spent only 2-3 years in the primary schools, wheras the British Hindus have spent at least 14 years in their schools.

    About Menelli Shoes: We in India have never seen it, so how can we protest against something which are not available in India. We have shoes made by only BATA or Khadim, but nobody( except those who went abroad) have ever heard of even Huss Puppy or Clarks either; we also do not know what is Pizza or Hamburger.

  32. Kadimipuli Porumannana Says:

    “we also do not know what is Pizza or Hamburger.”

    ya right.

    By this talk i assume u never even been there, pizza is there even in small cities like Hyderabad and u want us to believe indians don’t know what it is.

    How do you know they didn’t read Hindu scriptures, maybe they want to think beyond what so and so book said.

    And by scriptures u of course mean wat u and ur selected vaishnava circle read, why don’t u read some others for a change before doling out advice.

    Ok, forget the shoes, how come u lot keep on getting slapped around by the UPA gov’t and do nothing.

  33. I am Buddha of the West Says:

    “British Hindus have certainly more opportunity than Indian Hindus to learn about Hinduism,”

    Indian Hindus certainly have more opportunity than Western Hindus to learn about Hinduism because they have access to the Gurus who can explain in terms that computers and books cannot.

    But off course we have the internet– that’s why we British Hindus teach ourselves Hinduism and are naturally superior in intellect and wisdom and religious knowledge then Indian Hindus.

    So going back to your question
    “So my question is why is it that they do not want to read those Hindu scriptures but express their own ideas always as Hinduism.”

    This is why we can express our own ideas and don’t need to read scriptures as often as you do in India.
    We don’t need excuses.
    We spend 20 years studying the scriptures at schools unlike Indian Hindus.
    We are just ready for sainthood.
    So please don’t mock our intellect and just accept our wisdom.
    We know everything.

    Aaauuuuummmmmmm
    Hari-Aum
    Aum

  34. A.Moron Says:

    Kadimipulli:

    Currently I live in Calcutta because of my posting, it is the biggest city in India, but, except for those who have been to foreign countries no one knows what is Hamburger. It is still not available here. Fried Chicken was opened only two years ago.
    I guess only in certain areas of New Delhi, Bombay, Bangalore, Hyderanad people know about Hamburgers. I have not seen it in Madras or Allahabad or Varanasi, Patna, Kanpur.
    Thus, you know very little about India. I travel all overIndia. even in the aircraft most people like to have vegetarian food so much that the Captains need to apolosize that vegetarian food is not available any more. Most Indians even today are vegetarian.

    For the Buddha of the West:
    (a) Yes, I know that British Hindus suffer from a complex. They do not read any Holy books because they think they know these all just by watching Bhaji on the Beach or Kamasutra.

    (b) Gurus cannot help anyone as they themselves know very little; they express their own ideas not what is given in the Holy books. As a result people who depend on them get completely wrong ideas.

  35. Navin Says:

    I for one am ignorant.
    Perhaps it has to do more with effort than environment. Perhaps not. What do I know? neti neti neti

    hariaum

  36. A.Moron Says:

    Navin:
    you are not ignorant at all, you know a lot better than most. Why do you say Neti Neti, be positive man and assert yourself to tell others the the real Sanatan Dharma. As you know Vedas well, you can do that.
    .

  37. I am Buddha of the West Says:

    British Hindus “they know these all just by watching Bhaji on the Beach or Kamasutra.”

    Told you we British Hindus are so clever.
    WE come from the ancient race of seers who
    heard –Shruti then
    Smriti ‘remembered’ and finaly applied
    Nyaya ‘logic’
    :)

    Dont be so doom and gloom yaar
    “Gurus cannot help anyone as they themselves know very little; they express their own ideas not what is given in the Holy books.”

    as you say
    “be positive man and assert yourself”

  38. Marc Says:

    Nice article. I think it should also be noted that many Indian Hindu scholars also insert their own biases into their translations (eg: ISKCON). For anyone looking for unbiased translations of Hindu texts I’d highly recommend anything from the Ramakrishna math (and this is coming from a guy who doesn’t believe in Advaita).

  39. Kiran Says:

    Superb Website on Hindu Scriptures.

    A Must read for all!
    http://www.dharmicscriptures.org/scriptures.htm

    Plus send them any help you can.

    You can also read up about the
    The various methods of interpretation of Vedic texts on
    http://www.dharmicscriptures.org/Vedic_SB_Intro.doc

    Look under the Topic
    G. Methods of Interpreting the Vedic texts:

Leave a Reply