Bloodshed & violence at Navratri
In the first of this gripping two-part series, a young Hindu describes an unfortunate event where he confronted a group of troublemakers at his community Navratri event, where the security were not discharging their duties. The confrontation set off a chain of events which ended in him having to spend the night in a police cell, followed by a long drawn out court case. Such events are not isolated, and have been an unfortunate part of our Navratri celebrations in Britain.
September 28th, 2007 at 8:15 am
never heard of afghan sikhs before how do you know they were sikhs and not muslims wearing kara trying to lure sikh and hindu girls for conversion by pretending to be sikhs its the oldest trick in the book
September 28th, 2007 at 8:19 am
“never heard of afghan sikhs before how do you know they were sikhs ”
What planet you on mate ? You ever been to Southall ? Just go talk to Sikhs there running all the stalls and ask them where they are from …
September 28th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Just suprised by the event organizers, end of the day to them, i suppose its all about the money and not about the people or their tradition/religion.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:00 am
There is an area of afgan sikhs living in the mountains of south west afghanistan! Who are very protective! Sikhs are originally from pakistan so can be understood living in afghanistan. As u know many sikhs have hatred against hindu’s because of the 1984 issue so they could jus been there to spoil the event???
September 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
As u know many sikhs have hatred against hindu’s because of the 1984 issue so they could jus been there to spoil the event???
That’s true but those that were behind the Sikh massacre were the Congress thugs led by K.L. Bhagt, who was found guilty of these crimes & sent to prison. Hindus had nothing to do with this whatsoever. These anti-Hindu Sikhs are plainly dumb & brainwashed for holding Hindus responsible for such crimes and holding a grudge against them.
September 28th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Having read this story, Im surprised they didnt hire professional doormen deal with type of trouble, most of the places i’ve been to noorta normally have this just to offstay the unexpected times of trouble
i mean fancy letting troublemakers back in, you wouldnt expect this at a bar/nightclub!!
Lets hope they have now closed holding the event it in chiswick until stern security arrangements have been made
September 28th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
im very surpirsed that the organizers could be so ignorant to what had just happend and were out to get money. i totally agree with what the person done, i would of done the same of course not alone. Them grades are useless that the whole point of them being there to tackle any stupid behaviour.
September 28th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
I think that the organizer deserved a beating. When scum like them get targeted things change. I always here scum hiding behind the respect your elders shield. What I have seen is if you treat them like the scum they are they behave in a much more respectable way.
September 28th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
The person who sold the tickets to the thugs for the second time, distribute his name to all the Hindu organizations.
He is more of a thug than the real ones. These thugs were not Sikhs, not Hindus, they were just criminals, thugs and anti social hulligans.
Bhupendra
September 28th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Winds me right up! Us Hindus are peaceful people but we should know when to stand up for our culture/religion and our values.
Many a times have i seen non Hindus at Navratri who are just there to drool over our sisters and act the big man infront of male Hindus…..Does anyone ever say anything, NO. Do we ask them to leave or refuse to sell tickets to them, NO!
What the f**k do you expect….these twats know that we will not do anything so they come and abuse or culture and the idiotic Hindus sitting at the door counting there fu**ing profits as they let any tom dick n harry through the door are just as bad….! I truely wish that before the day i die we can see our men standing up for our religion just as the sikhs and muslims would do rather than just turn a blind eye and continue selling tickets or allowing entry to these worthless pieces of s**t! Jai Hind
September 28th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
fight fire with fire. Ive had to deal with Muslims throwing fireworks at the children and women at garba…muslims coming to garba to “pull” the girls…..muslims coming to cause fights and cause trouble.
Dont be afraid to deal with these “people” with force if necessary. What they do takes the piss. As Hindus, we should all have no problem in taking on the onus to discard them if they are being unruly or they are there for the wrong reasons.
September 29th, 2007 at 11:36 am
unfortunately this doesnt sound at all weird, these troubles have also been experienced by myself, only it was Hindus causing trouble for other Hindus…we need to respect that we are there to enjoy a festival its not a social club to be showing off in!!
September 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am
all temples should have a pass system.
but I see it wont do any good when idiots are given passes to ruin our festivals.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I think we should just blame muslims for this because talking personal experience I seen guju guys and girls inviting non-hindus to these type of events.There’s plenty of Hindu guys who also go there to pull girls and the same goes for the girls looking out for guys so it’s natural others are going to do the same thing when the whole thing is about pulling and not about religion for most.Of course there should be strong defence but not only targetted against muslim guys but also the stupid Hindus at these events.Still all these Hindus should least be taught about their religion from an early age and maybe they would have more respect for their religion then just pulling a girl and having sex with her in the car park and believe me I’ve seen that happening…
September 29th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Unfortunatelty I can already see what’s going to happen in part 2 of this story.The Gujarti guy who stood up to these Afghans will most probably get seriously beaten up and that will be the end of the story and then he’ll be arrested by the police for falsely starting the fight.
September 29th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Just a point having read some of the comments above (some expressed in poor taste)
There are senior committee members of community organisations who will actively invite Muslim youngsters to Navratri, and who can genuinely see nothing wrong doing so in their view.
The presence of these youngsters at Navratri is kept delebrately quite from other committee, and indeed members of the community who may otherwise object.
This will continue, as those who object are considered narrow minded.
September 29th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
I arranged a garba 3 years ago, I told the organisers I would take care of security and sponsorship, I got them what they wanted ie money and prizes and they were also happy to see the security I arranged, Hindu boys with Tilaks on their foreheads standing loud and proud, nobody dared say a word against them !!
It sent out the message of Hindu security - dont mess, be safe. If i could do the same everywhere I would !!
I stood on the door of my community Garba for 2 days , i travelled all the way for SE to NW and any young guy who came to the door without family was pointed across to me where I spoke in Gujararti or Hindi, and if tehy did not answer the question s properly , they were not coming in, I didnt let any otehr non-hindu in either, evne girls who brought their non-hindu bfs were told that this was a private Hindu Religous event. but hey even the 40 so called volunteers had a go at me, they just havnt a clue or the balls to do what we know even with the law on my side….
September 29th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
agreed…Hindus who bring non Hindus in are a BIG problem.
Hindus THEMSELVES bring in muslims and Sikhs in gangs to pull at garba…and noone EVER says anything. Every time I say something to the non Hindus I am met by hostility by fellow HINDUS…”youre being discrimatory”…”they are our friends”…”this isnt YOUR mandir”…”they wanted to see what garba was about”………the latter comment is the funniest….if they want to know what garba is about, its always an irony that they are the ones skulking around at the back leering and stairing at girls and not actually taking part in any celebrations.
I dont mind non Hindus coming to the mandir at all…the mandir is for EVERYONE. But i despise ppl who come to garba for teh wrong reasons…Hindus included…and something should be done about them. I hope everyone reading this resolves to be the one to sort things out and take a stand in their respective communities when garba time commences. We cant stand by idly and allow such things to occur.
September 29th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
The problems Hindus have at garba are repeated throughout the UK…muslims (mostly) who come to fight, leer at our women, defile our mandirs and cause trouble. Sikhs (often) who come through invitation from their Hindu friends who then leer at our women…and Hindus dumbasses (rarely) coming to act cool and to showboat.
Its become the norm for me to go to garba with a defensive mindset ever ready to tackle any potential problems. Its got to the point where i know EXPECT trouble and am suprised when it doesnt occur (which is rare)………
The question I ask is..is this phenomenon unique to the UK garbas..or does it happen in the US…in Canada…in Australia…etc etc.??????………..
I have family in Toronto who say that trouble in some areas is caused by Sikhs…(brampton) and tamil HINDUS causing trouble in areas like Scarborough and Markham…
Can anyone tell us of their experiences?????..whether in the uk or anywhere else?
September 29th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
In Toronto garbas usually anyone who pays gets in whether they are Muslim, Sikh or whatever, the organisers have no shame & are only in it for the money, so usually all kinds of idiots get in and the end result is trouble, in Montreal I heard it’s different, only Hindus are allowed in & sometimes only Gujju Hindus, so I guess it depends on the city & who organizes it.
Even in this article, more than the troublemakers its the organizers who need beats more, as I always say, usually it’s other traitor Hindus that screw the rest of the samaaj & these organizers r a perfect example of it.
September 29th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
I differ with Db8 on one issue in particular.
The Hindu philosophy embraces to a large degree the prechings of Sikhism, and I do not agree that all Sikh youngsters who come to Garba fall into the catagory as you describe them to be.
There is always the odd rotten apple who will give others a bad name but hey, I have seen unruly and seriously bad mannered Hindu boys do worse at Norta.
Many Sikhs, young and old alike, and yes, school or family friends in many cases attend Garba and fully partake in every aspect of religious, spiritual and the social side of our festival, and do the Aarti with us.
I go to Gurdwara with Sikh friends, and the welcome given there by Sikhs is overwhelming and deeply welcoming.
Emphasis is given by some that boys of other faiths stand there “leering, pulling girls, skulking etc..”
The implication here is that Hindu boys dont do that - this is not so.
Muslims should not be allowed to enter the Norta halls, but to put Sikhs in the same catagory is grossly incorrect - Hinduism shares so much in common with Sikhism, and those Sikh people whom I have had the pleasure of knowing who attend Norta are absolute gentlemen, and a lot of them vegetarian too.
I have known Sikh boys intervene, stand tall and take the “front line of defence” at Garba where belligerent muslim boys have walked in and started trouble.
The points made of “there to pull girls” goes with youth, but there should not be vulgar, forceful or intimidating behaviour. Alongside this being a religious event, it is also a social event and youngsters, boys & girls, will meet. This is part of life.
September 29th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Pravin…you cant have read my comments properly…I was NOT talking about mainstream sanatan Sikhs (or even decent Sikhs who are non sanatan)…Im talking about idiot sikhs…and also idiot Muslims. Infact I know of more than one muslim who attends garba in true CELEBRATION…and one of them even does aarti. But im not talking about these people..and as i said, these people are always more than welcome.
Yes, I lament the fact that some Hindus themselves leer..and use garba as a focal point to woo the opposite sex…to an extent I attribute this to the teenage phase as the very youth who did this at one point in their lives I see coming to navratri now..older…and wiser…and past the point where anything pertaining towards the opposite sex stimulates arousal in them.
But when Muslims and Sikhs do that…and in a HINDU place of worship, it enrages me and the “teenage phase” theory becomes irelevant and somewhat defunct. Its one thing a Hindu leering at a girl in a Hindu mandir, but its something totally different if a non Hindu does so in a Hindu mandir. Thats just takes the piss.
As Harish said…in many areas..(and i have attended garba in Toronto and witnessed it myself) tickets are sold to any and everyone with profits or income being seen as the bottom line…and obviously this is a cause for concern.
September 29th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Sorry Db8 - I obviously misread you. Apologies matey.
And yes, I take your point in what you say.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Namaste All
Yes, what Pravin and Db8 says about Sikhs is right. Yes, once in a while we may come across an idiot, trouble maker Sikh, but then we have such idiots in Hindus as well, even more.
It is interesting to know how the tiny Jewish community protect themselves and their interest. They are solidly united.
In this country of 60 million, there are just over 300,000
Jews. Yest they have more than 100 synagauges.
Each and every birth, death and migration is centrally registered. They know where every member of the community live and work.
They have their own security under the banner of Community Security Trust(CST) .
It is a big organization with a 10 million budget and employ some 300 well trained security professionals who guard their every event.
They do not need any help from any one. They are capable of handling any eventuality and have close working relationship with the police.
When it comes to cultural heritage, community interest and self defence, they unite and show solidarity that not any other community have.
We, the Hindus, vastly outnumber Jews but lack unity, self respect and will to unite.
Yes, some Hindu organizations like SHM do have their own security but I wonder whether they would like to share it with other organizations.
Then again, these are volunteeres, not well paid, well trained professionals as Jewish Security Guards are.
If we had even 10% of their commitment, we would not be in such a mess.
But as Pravin says, our youngsters are learning fast. It depends how the community handles them, educate them, take care of their needs and make them part of the community, taking their interest on board.
Wish you all have a happy and enjoyable Navratri.
Bhupendra
September 30th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
I think we should call on the Hindu Forum of Great Britain to put together a national security framework to project mandirs not just from idiots, but from terror attacks, vandalism etc…
The HFB was set up in December 2003 after the attack from Christian Fundamentalists on the Wembely temple… I was at the meetiing which was held at the Swaminarayan centre in Northholt and their the great and good (and Keith Vaz) all stood up and said it would be a good thing…
so four years later what has happened….
if you go on the Hindu Forum website you will see the ambitious Project Shield programme…
You would expect that in Four years we would have a national framwork of security for all mandirs in the UK…
But if you phone up the HFB and ask them about it they will evade the question etc etc….
and you know why?
they have done Sweet F. A about it…
I know I used know someone on the security committee and when they presented a paper to them no one read it as they where too busy worrying about Hindus in Russia or something…
and so we still have the problems that we have now…
so what can we do…
1, A process of re-educating the temple trustees that the people in their samaj who come to Garba are their responsibility and they should be f…cking ashamed that they are putting money over safety…
2, Get a national security framework with a temple security Handbook (which has already been written)
3, Induce the temple trustee’s to have the youth be reponsible for the security of mandir and have a diva at the entrance… all those who are hindu’s will bow and go in… those who don’t and are not vouched for will be kept out…
4, If non hindu do come in — you always get the old politican worshiping hindus who invite the major or some such - find come in … you will have to wear a badge saying visitor and you will be the responsibility of the Hindu that brought you in…
You screw up not only you but your Hindu sponsor is kicked out as well…
5, And each Mandir should create good relationships with the local cop shop… increased patrols at times of Hindu events etc… and a mandir-police liason officer… etc…
It will take my brothers and sisters but this secruity framework will be but in… as the alternative - as from Part one of this article will be to horrible to imagine…
the Christian Fundo’s (who in my mind should have been given a tight hard slap or two) went into the Wembley mandir, took over the mike and shouted obscenities and the other brave Christian Fund threw down a murti of Ram… but it could have been a lot worse… imagine some idiots causing a riot in a fully populated graba at arti time… women being molested, arti’s being thrown around… saris catching on fire… people rushing to get out of one exit… fire engulfing the place…
’nuff said
Don’t look to the people of the Hindu Forum or the Hindu Council for guidance - they have done sweet f.a …. you must look to yourself and your brothers and sisters…
as they say in the film “300″
It is better to Die on your feet then live on your knees….
and us Hindus in this Country have had enough of our leaders who live on their knees…
Sai Ram
October 1st, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Agree with Nri Bar Steward’s anger when he says:
“Don’t look to the people of the Hindu Forum or the Hindu Council for guidance - they have done sweet f.a …. you must look to yourself and your brothers and sisters…..
… and us Hindus in this Country have had enough of our leaders who live on their knees… ”
Leaders? That is laughable! What leaders??? They are interested only in that chair, and the prestige that goes with it. They dont even bother answering e.mails.
What is even more irritating is those annoying grandees of yester-year philosophies who sit at the top of these organisations, smug in the self belief … “we know best”.
There are the odd few who will make an effort to do soemthing but alas, the politics by other committee members will “scupper” their efforts - could never understand that attitude.
One does have to salute the organisation of the Swami Narayan Mission in this respect, and god help anyone who creates there.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:33 pm
1) the author is an excellent story teller, setting up suspense, etc. I wanted to note that. I hope you are using that talent elsewhere as well.
2) when confronted by hooligans, one must remember that they are often armed and secretly so. This is not to dissuade a defense but rather that a defense should be done thoughtfully - not alone in a rest room but in a public place, also, overwhelming force is better than the macho one-one. You’ll note that this goon had his friends ready. That is a good tactical step. Next time, bring a group of people with you.
3) If you are not trained in a martial art, you need to be very careful (even if you are, you should know that you have to be careful) about physical attacks. It is very easy to kill a person with your own hands or at least to maim them for life (knees, larynx…) It is quite possible that the bad guy knows this.
4) If you are not trained in martial arts, become trained.
5) If you have a strong desire to set up a Hindu defense league, I agree, but speak to the experts - Hindus that have worked in police forces, military, paramilitary organizations and intelligence. These are the people that can effectively set such a program up. Often in bars, etc, you get people who flunked out of police academies, etc; these are the most dangerous people as they are not trained to manage situations, often escalate beyond what is needed, and get the establishment sued.
6) until then designate 5-10 people in any gathering with a few rental cops that will work as a group of overwhelming force on individuals.
7) if we close our functions to the outside world, our isolationism increases our own paranoia and their hatred for us. They should be invited to join us in good hearted hindu fun so that they can learn that it is ok to be with us, not against us, and that hinduism is an inclusive metareligion not an isolationist or exclusionary one.
8) If people are leering at people at a function, those people should be removed regardless of origin. The way to protect our women is to give them the freedom and education so that they are empowered to protect themselves (ie advanced academic degrees and black belts).
hariaum
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:13 am
What these Afghan Sikhs did is bad.But we as Hindus should show them love and hospitality.I really pity them the conditions in Afghanistan made them like that.And it is cultural shock to them seeing Hindu gathering in UK.Spread the love Hindus…..
October 3rd, 2007 at 8:56 am
Could someone tell me please - these Afghan Sikhs refered to here, are they practising Sikhs with Sikhism as their religion, or are they Muslims who were Sikhs originally and thus called “Afghan Sikhs”? (as the Gujarati Musalmans in India?).
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:29 am
akraj our days of feeling pity for others is over,Hindus are now free and owe nobody anything.
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
akraj..these afghan sikhs mentioned in the story…do they seriously seem like the type that were oppressed in Afghanistan by the taleban?…I would suggest they are 2nd or 3rd generation Sikhs who probably have never set foot in Afghanistan ever.
Even besides this…lets say at a stretch of the imagination that they are sikhs from afghanistan who have JUST come over and have been oppressed by the muslims…that makes it OK for them to try their best to opress us?…we should pity THEIR situation?..how about you pity OUR situation whereby we are forced to have a column in this Hindu magazine dedicated to communicating the problems encountered during our religious functions caused by ppl of other religious groups.
Your comment, akraj, borders on stupidity.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pm
When all we care about is making money from religious festivals, this is what we will get - time and again.
We ahve to stand up for ourselves. We can’t go on being like the proverbial wilderbeasts, allowing the aggressors to attack us one by one while the others look on ! We have to change and we have to protect our own honour !
http://www.geocities.com/pushti_marg/support-hinduism.htm
Krushna, Rama, Shiva, Durga - they all stood up to badies and we need to do the same.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Simple solution - Only Hindus, or those who respect Hind ideals should be allowed in at our festivals / functions !!
October 4th, 2007 at 11:33 am
L Raj Says:
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Simple solution - Only Hindus, or those who respect Hind ideals should be allowed in at our festivals / functions !!
I totally agree with this. It is sad but ever since I can remember the Navratri festival seems to attract undesirables. In this case it is sikh youths and there has always been a section of these youths for whom alcohol and violence is a way of life.
Entrance should be for members of mandirs only and non Hindu families will be permitted but only on invitation.
Let’s face it if non sikhs behaved like this in a gurudwara they wouldn’t come out alive.
IT IS TIME FOR THE HINDUS TO STAND UP FOR THEMSELVES!
October 7th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Dear Sirs,
Hindus must not take the path of violence but use the rule of law. In the discribed incident police should have been involved, case should have been registered against the organisors as well as the thugs. Hindu youth should have protested to these knuckle headed old money grabbing gits by saying, ‘would you let you’re wife or daughter to be prostituted for money…why use our goddess…’.
On the Afgan Sikhs, yes sikhs settled in Afganistan since Maharja Ranjit singh ruled the area.
October 7th, 2007 at 10:37 am
i think that its disgusting that they disturb our events, i wonder what would happen if we disturb theirs? (muslim/sikhs) however i do agree with some of the above statements how we should show them love and hospitality it only means we are not worser then them but i also think it is time that we should kick out the scum and stand up for our selves its not to say that these people are “the baddies” but is it possible that they could be inquisitive about our culture?
October 7th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
rupa….read my earlier comment…if they are merely “inquisitive” they would come to other events too…but they dont..they just come garba..and lets not forget what the issue that we are talking about is…we are talking about the ones that cause TROUBLE….even remotely considering given them “love and hospitality” I feel is a disgusting suggestion. Its this mentality that results in Hindus being treated like crap in every country that we settle.
Noone is suggesting the path of violence…but defence is paramount. If they mess with us in our own places of worship…causing violence and leering, then we MUST fight back…and yes, this could mean violence. But ONLY in defence.
October 8th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Jai Sri Krishna
I think we are all missing the point here, this isn’t just about non-hindus coming to Garba and Kicking of, theres also loads of hindu youth who come to these events just to pull. I’ve noticed that so many young people only come for the social aspect of Navratri and you only see them at the Temple at other festivals like Shivaratri, Ram Navmi etc… The festival has become too comercial and its all about dancing and making money. If communities across the country kept events more religious we wouldnt have these issue.
I’ve been to some ‘organised’ Garba events and was shocked at how comercial and unspiritual the they are, for example paying to get in and film songs played during garba. Also i noticed how nowadays not many events fail to properly install Garbo-deep (matiji’s abstract form as a flame lit in a earthen pot)
Thankfully my community still holds a very traditional Navratri in our local temple. We install Mataji’s Garbo-deep properly, we have Mahapuja for 1 and half hour every night, a large Havan on Ashtami and we perform Mataji’s Visarjan on Dasera. A lot of young people find our event boring as we dont have proffesional singers and large sound systems, but personally speaking i prefer this as we still mantain a spiritual atmosphere, if i want all the hype and basslines i can just go clubbing!!
But coming back to this discussion, my temple has not yet had to deal with trouble makers, and this is due to our temple keeping the festival very religious, and thus being too ‘boring’ for young people who want to come for the wrong reasons. In my opinion communities across the countries need to get back to the spiritual roots of the festival and we wont have these issues
due to the heavy religious emphasis we have at our temple, we don’t attract those young people who just want to Dance, pull and cause trouble. So thankfully so My temple hasnt had to deal with trouble makers.
October 8th, 2007 at 10:37 am
“I feel is a disgusting suggestion. Its this mentality that results in Hindus being treated like crap in every country that we settle.”
Exactly..All this acting kind and tolerant has been taken as a sign of weakness and has resulted in Hindus become mentally weak. Hindus need to learn their history to know Hindus of the past and even in some places do fight back and that’s the real reason why we’re still here.But unfortunately we dont hear anything about that because alot of moron Hindus want to keep on promoting ‘we’re tolerant people or we respect all religions’ etc etc..Alot of these Swamis and Gurus are to blame for this as they want to keep promoting a total weak image of Hinduism their followers which then creates situtation like the one mentioned in the Garba..I’m just wondering now what’s going to happen in part 2 of this story is it going to end even worse where Hindus are going to be made to look even more weak and stupid.Well let’s see you can never know ..
October 8th, 2007 at 11:03 am
“I think we are all missing the point here, this isn’t just about non-hindus coming to Garba and Kicking of, theres also loads of Hindu youth who come to these events just to pull”
Definitely true and I was one of them.I remember years back and being a Punjabi we didn’t even consider Garba as a religious thing apart from a pick up joint to find ‘guju’ girls and many times it was the girls or even guys who use to tell us, or paki guys or sikh guys to come there.So that time it was more of a Punjabi thing to just go and mess around at the Gharbas .And I admit I did mess around with plenty of girls there.But after a while seeing the Goddess there and the Arti going on finally got to me and hit me hard that this is not a ‘guju’ event to hunt for women but its part of Hinduism then out of guilt I never ever went there again.
But like I said a lot of these problems have occurred because of the people running the place and the girls and guys participating in it that have made this a hunting ground for not only for some Hindu Gujaratis themselves but also other Hindus and then of course Muslims. There needs to be a strict guideline set for all these events and also some sort of education programme eventually aimed at mainly young Hindus not only when it comes to Garbha but for Hindu issues generally. Its not worth building all these beautiful temples all over the place when the people themselves don’t even know anything about Hinduism.We need Hindus who can go out there and make the difference for Hindus society.At the moment there’s hardly any Hindu groups who have the edge that they can inspire and educate their people.Thats the need of the hour.HV is definitely a good start in that direction though.
October 8th, 2007 at 11:09 am
“Spread the love Hindus….. ”
Akraj are you desperately trying to become the Next Mahatma Gandhi or what ?
October 8th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
Akraj is obviously trying to be the next Gandhi but too bad for him Hindus have rejected that nonsense, stop showing love and start showing the sword to these wankers (a gun might be better).
October 8th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Having done birthday parties, etc. How hard is it for Hindus who don’t like the money making aspect of it to rent their own hall, invite their own friends and have a Garba party (with a pot luck food and fund)? Then, as they get a reputation of a safe fun place to garba, it grows in is run right. The fool that sells a ticket to anyone will eventually be driven out by market forces unless s/he responds to the demand.
Despite using the market and self discipline to achieve your goals, I hope you would be generous enough to invite outsiders so that they can learn that those radical hindus know how to party also: tamaso ma jyotir gamaya.
hariaum
October 8th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
“Exactly..All this acting kind and tolerant has been taken as a sign of weakness and has resulted in Hindus become mentally weak…”
Agree with this comment.
‘we’re tolerant people or we respect all religions’ etc etc..
This kind of “subservient” thinking must end - I am by no means suggesting that we do not therefore respect other faiths. We defend ours with robust, if not overpowering strength to match.
Unfortunately for us, Hindu “right of centre” thinkers are a dwindling breed!
India too is taking the path suggested by someone here ie:
“..Hindus must not take the path of violence but use the rule of law..”
and is literally therefore being over-run by organised Muslim violence there who now openly challenge, and intimidate Hindus in what “is” a Hindu land, but which is rapidly “becoming an Islamic state”.
Such moderation will be the end of Hindus, but perhaps I am in the minority here, and likely to be “set upon” by the moderates.
British police ignore Hindus living in the UK. Look after the Muslims they say, as otherwise they will riot - cant have that!
Use the rule of law?? … yes, but how? … the police is not listening to Hindus - they put us all in same basket and call us “Asians” - when they know we are as different as chalk and cheese from others.
Senior committee members of Hindu community organisations here themselves actively promote inclusion of Muslims at Norta …. and they laugh when people object, a smug smile, and a retort to the effect:
“we know better. We are not like them, and we have to move forward with times, become inclusive and tolerant so they learn from us”
Naive, or too trusting? I dont know - but that is my opinion.
Difficult ….
The very real religious debate here can only take precedence over other points raised here, in my opinion, once we agree that Norta is for Hindus, and Sikhs are very welcome. No Muslims.
We put in place, by co-ordianted organisation, robust security men at all community held Norta events all over the UK.
Wishful thinking on my part perhaps …???
October 11th, 2007 at 5:19 am
Dear Dharmesh Agravat…
********************
I agree with you.Hindus never owe anything to anybody we were always free people.
Toleration is the biggest weak point in Hindu society.
Dear db8…..
***********
If they were 2nd or 3rd generation they wont be called Afghan Sikhs.Lets say you are
2nd or 3rd generation Hindu in UK will you be called British Hindu or Indian Hindu?For sure
you will be called British Hindu.Afghan Sikhs are refugees in Britain coz of the war.How did
you know they never set foot in Afghanistan?
Who force you to comment in this Hindu Magazine db8? Do you think by commenting in this column the
British Prime Minister will read your comment?My comment is just my point of view i didnt force
you to agree with me.You wont become brilliant by calling me stupid.
Dear Dev…
**********
I have no intention of being next Mahatma Gandhi.
Dear Kadimipuli Porumannana….
****************************
I didnt know Mahatma Gandhi said ’spread the love Hindus”.
By saying that it’s obvious for you?
By the way LTTE is looking for you.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Akraj , you don’t show love & hospitality for people who want to desecrate Navratri, Krishna didn’t tell Arjun to spread love & hospitality on battlefield, with clowns like you no wonder Hindus are screwed.
on top of this u make crappy excuses like this for their behavior:
“really pity them the conditions in Afghanistan made them like that.”
next, LTTE is not looking for me since I am not Tamil, don’t make assumptions about things you don’t know, the name is not even from Tamil.
Kadimi = Brave
Puli = Tiger
Poru = Battle/Fight
Mannana = Respect
“Brave Tiger & Respected in Battle” is what it means.
Now since I doubt you have anything worthwhile to do, i will leave you to figure out the language it’s from.
Oh & I do admire the Tigers for fighting instead of “spreading love” while Sinhalese raped Tamil women.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Unfortunately Chiswick seems to have become too commercialised and I suppose the “elders” only being interested in the money seems to have proved it…It is shameful that people like this are allowed in! Doesnt seem to be inter-religion, but just people with no damn respect, and these little wannabes need to be taught it!
If this happens again, dont go outside straight away, stall for a bit and people will come over…we all gotta show solidarity so they know we’re not pushovers…safety in numbers. I personally will be standing right next to you on the front line…as someone said further up this thread…better to die on your feet than live on your knees; the sanctity of our religion and community (and for that matter, women) is definitely worth standing up for!
October 11th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
The majority of afghans fled to iran and pakistan and other nearby asian areas. The number that fled to UK is relatively small…of this proportion the sikhs who have fled must comprise a minute minority considering they form only a part of the 1% of the non muslims (which also contains Hindus and Christians)…so by this logic I deduced that it is only a very remote possibility that the sikhs were 1st generation afghan sikhs who were part of the fleeing refugees.
Also, If a sikh is originally from afghanistan, his or her ethnic stock is of an afghani variety…hence they would be referred to as afghan sikhs, as apposed to say if their parents were from India in which case they would be Indian. This is why 3rd generation Indians continue to support India and not england in various matters…because our ethnicity is Indian. Thats why a kashmiri muslim will still called themself a kashmiri muslim….everyone knows that they live in britain and hence are british…but their ethnicity, their motherland is not england.
Im not quite sure what your point about the british primeminister was…im guessing you were trying to be funny or quirky…it didnt work.
“How did you know they never set foot in Afghanistan?”
If you read my earlier post, you would have noted that I wrote that even if they HAVE recently come from afghanistan as refugees, that doesnt give them the right to be how they were. If anything, they should come with piety and I would have expected war to have humbled them. Instead they come to britain and cause trouble? It seems they should be wary of biting the hand that feeds them.
but, as i said, i doubt they even WERE refugees in the first place.
“Toleration is the biggest weak point in Hindu society.”
You wrote this in your follow up post where you decided to tackle your detractors…yet this very line goes against the very sentiment of the post that we were all disagreeing with in the first place…in that you wrote…
“…But we as Hindus should show them love and hospitality.I really pity them the conditions in Afghanistan made them like that.And it is cultural shock to them seeing Hindu gathering in UK.Spread the love Hindus…..”
One minute you write this, the next you write that toleration is the Hindus biggest weak point!
Rereading your post pointed out another thing that I thought was odd…”it is a cultural shock to them seeing Hindu gathering in UK”???????????…………and whats your point?…..does that give their aggression legitimacy?……do the afghan siks not go to gurudwara where they undoubtably would have seen sikh gatherings…wheres you logic?
anyways, i dont seek an argument with a fellow Hindu. I disagree with what you write and just as you as free to express your opinion, I am free to express mine….just dont be suprised if people challenge your sentiments..this is a forum where not only your opinion is sacrosanct.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:01 am
Dear Kadimipuli Porumannana…..
Hehehe…..so funny
Kadimi = Brave
Puli = Tiger
Poru = Battle/Fight
Mannana = Respect
not Sri Langkan Tamil words??? hmmm!!! if you say so.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:03 am
By the way LTTE might be looking for you.Change the name!Hehehe….very funny.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
akraj whats your obsession with the LTTE, did one of them beat you up & stomp all over your wimpy ass, did you spread love when that happened?
I know dumbos like you can’t get this through your thick head but those words ain’t Tamil, ignorant morons like you think only Tamils have non Sanskrit names but thats wrong.
In Tamil, that would be:
Thairiyapuli Poraatamaniyum or Veerampuli Poraatamaniyum
Anyway I bet while you “spread love” some Paki must be banging your girl in the next room (or is some LTTE guy doing that job?)
And don’t try to be funny cuz u just end up looking like the retard you are.
October 12th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
u moron, thats telugu not tamil.
October 15th, 2007 at 7:09 am
SEND A LETTER TODAY
Hindus who have commented here and seriously wish to make a difference or have concerns then I suggest you write your concerns to
The Hindu Forum of Britain (HFB)
Hindu Council UK
Together we can make the difference so more the number of letters the better.
The letter should state clearly what’s going on in your area and what you would like to see happen. You letter should not aim to criticise these two groups either. A few simple sentences will do.
I also don’t want to read comments here about whether these organisations are good or bad or useless!!!! You have an opportunity to make a difference SO please do so.
I suggest you write to BOTH organisations in the UK who may have some influence on how to standardise NAVRATRI events for the future, make them more religious orientated rather then party orientated, looking at security aspects, and the various issues mentioned with regards to not allowing non-Hindus (Sikhs who only come at Navratri and Muslims invited or not who are young) to the events since these are religious events and not a showcase events on Hinduism or some party.
By stating banning of NonHindus does not make us racist or prejudice or discriminatory or intolerance or any other rubbish that they try to psychologically brainwash us with or make us feel guilty with!
Its all lies and we don’t have to put up with it. Our culture and security is more important then trying to please a few nonHindus.
It’s a family event and not a clubbing event.
The same goes about Hindu youth who come to flirt and chat. They too should be banned. Full Stop. Make your emails clear on these issues.
Don’t let these two groups get away with the claim that they have no influence or control over private run events. All the community members know each other in their respective cities and these private organisations should be put under pressure to make sure they run the events as a religious function. These private orgs will be setting a bad example to the Hindu religion and create problems for Temples if they don’t. Therefore ANYONE who thinks they have nothing to do with them are making an excuse.
Any one who are making an excuse to NOT SEND A LETTER to these orgs. are also making a petty excuse.
1)
Hindu Council UK
info@hinducounciluk.org
admin@hinducounciluk.org
Dr Jagdish C Sharma
MA(Delhi), MPhil, PhD(Ldn)
Chair & Director for Human Rights
Or
Mr Anil Bhanot
FCA, FRSA
Managing Director & General Secretary
Or
any of the others on
http://www.hinducounciluk.org/newsite/executive.asp
2)
The Hindu Forum of Britain (HFB)
“The Hindu Forum of Britain (HFB) is the largest representative body for British Hindus with over 275 member organisations from different regions around the country. HFB’s activities are broadly divided into three areas: public affairs and community consultation; capacity building and project development; and interfaith co-operation and relations to help build a cohesive and inclusive Britain.”
http://www.hfb.org.uk/
CONTACT THEM ON
http://www.hfb.org.uk/Default.aspx?sID=771&lID=0
October 15th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Sorry if this sounds bad but if professional doormen are too expensive then why not hire local white/black muscle to do the job?
It’s a fact that sikhs and pakis are terrified of whites and blacks which is why you’ll never see them outside an “asian area” like southall or bricklane unless they are in a group, armed and in the safety of a vehicle. Even then they’ll only go out in daylight hours.
Getting local muscle shouldn’t be a problem as many Hindus live in white/black areas without any trouble from the locals. Unlike sikhs and pakis who have to move out after a few months because of racism/muggings for example the wannabes in southall (including so called shere-punjab) who are too traumatised from their experiences in feltham(white) or stonebridge park(black).
October 17th, 2007 at 4:01 am
Kadimipuli Porumannana brought her commander cheran senguttuvan from LTTE for the rescue.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:08 am
Dear Kadimipuli Porumannana…
What are u talking about? what Paki, what girl,what next room? are u on drugs? it looks like u are the one retard with drugs.Hope u get well soon.OK.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Debate the article with logic and sense. Why wasting time by bashing each others? Always note, one’s own character reflects his/her parents characters. What we write here, reflects our characters, levels, quality.
Heavily materialistic way of life is ruining the world, Hindus are no exception. Greed, anger, lust, frustations like qualities only destroy oneself.
Please read and practice Bhagavad Gita. I bet you will enjoy a better life and others will always admire you. We are our own masters of progress as well as destruction.
October 20th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
akraj don’t worry i dont need LTTE backing to deal with wankers like you, it’s obvious that u got beat up by one of them & that’s why your obsession with them.
Anyway I think we can all see who the retard is here, it’s the clown who thinks all non Sanskrit names are Tamil & refuses to face the reality of his own ignorance.
neway how is it going raising the kid of an LTTEwallah cuz i bet that’s what happened, ur girl got knocked by one of them and u raise the kid like the loser u r, don’t try to take it all out on a forum, next time try to stand up for urself instead of munching pakoras while he bangs ur girl.
October 20th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
“Hindus who have commented here and seriously wish to make a difference or have concerns then I suggest you write your concerns to
The Hindu Forum of Britain (HFB)
Hindu Council UK”
And what exactly are they going to do ? Get more photos taken with MPs I guess.Hindus need to do things themselves and get rid of these Hindu orgs who leech on the Hindu community.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:32 am
db8
We dont have this problem in Australia because we dont interact so much with the muslims as the Hindus in the UK seem to do. Also I am sure the mentality of the Hindus here in Australia is the same as those in the UK, i.e. the intention of profit and nothing else. The only difference is that here, the Hindu organisers have not had the opportunity to display this kind of behaviour as yet simply due to the fact that the location of our temple is no where near any muslim neighbourhoods at all!
October 27th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Namaste Everyone,
Don’t forget Hindu Voice UK in association with
Shakti Marg is doing the London Diwali Night Garba.
Everyone is welcome.Further details :
London Diwali Garba Night
Friday 2nd November 2007.
Shoreditch Townhall
380 Old Street
EC1V 9LT London
Tickets £ 5.00
For more information and ticket booking.
email:info@shaktimarg.com
visit www.shaktimarg.com
October 27th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Trailer for up coming London Diwali Night Garba Nov 2nd
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos
October 15th, 2008 at 9:39 am
The most poignant import of Navaratri is to please Shakti-Mataji by self-abnegation and ‘tapas’ - austerity. Just as Parvati performed austerities for 80,000 years to please Shiva, women fast for 9 days in their own way. Some have only one meal a day, others only milk or fruit. From this self-control, known as ’sanyam’, springs shakti-power which pleases Mataji. However, instead of the sattvic Raas and Garba, people dance to rajasic forms such as: disco, rap, rock and so forth. This pollutes and incites the indriyas, rather than controlling them. Therefore, instead of remaining aloof from the sense pleasures to preserve one’s shakti, people freak out and lose it! To preserve the sattvic nature and sanctity of Navaratri, devotees everywhere should organise the Navaratri Garbas in the auspices of a mandir or satsang centre in which the male-female ‘maryada’ (discipline) is maintained. This is preferable than attending expensive, high profile parties staged by commercial entrepreneurs, where the indriyas run riot, hence dissipating shakti. And so now people often quip that Navaratri has become ‘Loveratri’!
October 15th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Is the author really as old as he claims to be? This “gripping” tale of heroism could have been written by a 10 year old. Was there any need to tell a poor action hero story when you have serious subject matter? Maybe the author could have saved us the blow-by-blow account of his fight and instead explained why he comes accross as an arrogant teenager looking for trouble? He seems incredulous that he was the one locked up, even after initiating the violence. If he’s still proud of his actions that night (which he implies he is) then the author should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.
October 15th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
If the story is true, then the organizers of any Vedic event should not allow anti-vedics in the program. As soo as a trouble maker is identified, he/she should be thrown out, and not allowed again in future.
jai sri krishna!
-sv