First Hindu prayer in US disrupted by protesters
The first Hindu prayer to take place in a US Senate was disrupted by protestors, who shouted slogans such as “Lord Jesus, forgive us Father for allowing the prayer of the wicked which is an abomination in Your sight.”
The protestors were rightwing Christians who believed that the recital of a Hindu prayer in the US Senate boded badly for America. The police were forced to intervene and three arrests were made, namely those of…
August 20th, 2007 at 3:45 am
I just realized how ignorant can a religious group be, the Rishis was here before them and Christ was in India to study about the inner self, during the missing Link. Still they talk as if they where here first. It’s a petty they don’t understand the statement Christ made -the temples is within us. In Hinduism Many Gods resides within us in different stages (Chakras and nadis). I hope they will have an open mind to understand the prime of the Universe. Om…….
August 20th, 2007 at 3:45 am
Namaste All
I feel in this case any publicity is a good publicity. There was a time no one knew what is Hinduism. But now most Americans know that Hinduism is the main religion of India. It is associated with Yoga, thanks to Ramdevji and with law abiding citizens.
Americans also know how well educated, hard working and decent Hindus are.
The fact that the Christians are afraid of Hinduism, Hindu philosophy, is the proof that we are a force to be reconed with.
The Hindus of USA should take this opportunity to lobby Senators and other politicians, pointing out the achievement of American Hindus who hold some of the highest posts in commerce and industry.
Can you or readers of HV in USA please give us the email address of some of the USA Senators to whom we, the readers of Hindu Voice can lobby?
Hare Krishna
Bhupendra
August 20th, 2007 at 5:03 am
What Hindu Fanatics doing in India, same is doing by Christian fanatics in USA.
August 20th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
This incident should remind everyone that not all religions are the same (as many “universalists” would claim). Hindus can be a great educating force in stressing following one’s religion while respecting the religion of another. In this regard, Hindus should not be referred to as “Chaplains” which is a Christian term.
Rajan Zed’s prayer was very nice with an important point of clarification. Who is “he” in the sentence: “May he stimulate and illuminate our mind.” Hindus should not be using Christian terminology such as “God” and “Lord.” “He” is a term that does not suit the Hindu understanding of Divinity. As well as an Absolute “no-thing-ness,” Hindus believe in the Spiritual force of Light/Energy and Bliss/Love (Satchidananda). This force takes on innumerable forms male and female. To promote a “He” as the Supreme is to fall into the patriarchal Monotheistic mindset.
August 20th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Namaste all
With friends like Prathiba, who needs an enemy?
Bhupendra
August 20th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
“What Hindu Fanatics doing in India, same is doing by Christian fanatics in USA.”
Would be interesting to see you furnish examples to prove this equal equal game you are playing, we are not interested in your personal rants without evidence.
August 20th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Dear Sir,
The only true Hindu of the west died on the cross! Just as he said, “Father, forgive them as they do not know what they do”, as he was being cricified, we should forgive them and ask them to return to the true path of their founder which is path of Sanatana Dharma.
It is time that we wake up and give the poor souls who are pathetically living in a world of devils, repentance and redemption, an opportunity to get out of their sad situation and learn about truth.
Their screaming is only a sign of frustration that Sanatana Dharma is showing the world the way and they have to purchase souls.
Give them an opportunity to vent their frustrations and then we will show them the way.
Regards,
V.C.krishnan
August 21st, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Krishnan says: “The only true Hindu of the west died on a cross!” What in the world are you talking about?
August 21st, 2007 at 8:45 pm
This is after all a society who love to use the (mispronounced) terms ‘karma’ , ‘dharma’ and ‘kismet’ but may never stop to educate themselves about the source.
Who cares. Let them protest in their laughably ignorant ways and arguments. I once met some fundamentalist christians at Uni through a friend, and their utter inability to tolerate any form of debate about the nature of God other than their own beliefs frankly scared me.
No hindu should have to stoop to explain/defend their faith in any so called multi-cultural society.
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 am
Sw Param is very concerned about using the term “He” etc. But then may be he forgets that the prayer was at a location where virtually none knew Sanskrit or the only common communicable language was English.
Again, is it not better to start off with something - even if it is not fully correct? At least a beginning gives every one an opportunity to as questions and then the one who knows the answer can always reply. This way a discussion takes place and any discussion is educative.
And Veda and Vedanta teaches us something step by step, and what we are told initially is later told to be dropped - after our understanding. That is process of learning and growth.
So we need to encourage to read, listen, discuss…we can always learn from mistakes…and mistakes can take place only when there is some action.
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:24 am
F**k those b**tards, sons of b***hes, what more to say. I am very arrogant in this issue, i cannot control my emotions.
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:08 am
God is almighty. Who says he/she/it has to be singular. His facets are many and if one worships this many faceted being He will appear as many Gods. As in Hinduism.
August 24th, 2007 at 4:07 am
its ok to attack inocent christians who speak about the bible and spread the word of jesus yet you hindus get angry about something like what happened in the US senate, you ppl should be kicked out of america and europe. We let you ppl bring your religion here yet when we bring christianity to india you ppl cry for the fact you guys can’t worship the cow or the rat anymore.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
european you mean you bring your religion like this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/953200.stm
Everyone knows that Christians have been terrorising Hindus in the North East of India where they have gained a majority.
Your shameless Pope never even apologised to Hindus for the Goan Inquisition.
You are not doing us any favours claiming to let us in, we came here legally and you christians invaded and genocided all the native americans in the first place, so if anything, you should be kicked back to Europe too.
Your people colonised us and persecuted us.
We Hindus were the one’s that gave shelter to the syrian christian refugees in Kerala in 3rd century when other xtians were persecuting them.
go sc**w yourself, if anything christianity is dead in europe and good riddance i should say, great to see sensible Europeans going back to their pagan roots or becoming atheists/agnostics or whatever they choose to be.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
These Christian Fundos make me laugh when they try to act the innocent.First off all did the native Indians write the constitution of the US? Oh I see they were busy being hunted like animals or being put in a reservation camp far off somewher.So they didn’t have time to do anything else.European is another nutcase who doesn’t have a life and the only place where he can come is here on this site and try to make himself feel good by trying to put Hindus down.Unfortunately for him that cant happpen as we’ll be pulling the toilet flush on him so he’ll be going down where he came from..
August 24th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Oh by the way, we are more than happy to “worship” cows and rats, at least it’s better than worshipping some dead man that his own community thought was born out of wedlock and giving ridiculous pretensions of being monotheistic with a 3 in 1 formula that no one understands.
August 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
of course we’re gonna expose your missionaries in india, they’re involved in demolishing temples and inspiring the ethnic cleansing of hindus in the north-east. Not to mention the hundreds of sex scandals they bring about, we really don’t want you to export your pedophilia to our country. thanks.
oh btw, at least we worship our own gods instead of some rotting corpse nailed to a piece of plywood.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
These Christian Fundies are trying to move America into the Dark Ages. The want biblical creationism to be taught in science class and they believe that anyone who does’nt worship their dead, false-god jesus is evil or “lost”. Just because I refuse to worship a dead man should not make me less of an American!!! Many Christian Fundies are full of ignorance, arogance and stupidity. What is very scary though, is that Christian Fundies are trying hard to merge religion and politics to create a strict Christian nation. Non-believers would be cast out most likely. Hopefully, they will fail because Christianity has brought much suffering to this world (salvery, genocide, hampering scientific and moral progress, etc etc).
August 25th, 2007 at 10:55 am
“These Christian Fundies are trying to move America into the Dark Ages.”
And if they do then you can imagine what they’ll be doing if they ever got control.They’ll be burning innocent women at the stake by claiming they’re witches or destroying books that say the world is round because its written by the devil. They make the Jewish holocaust look like a picnic compared the genocides they done to the human race.It’s no wonder the western world has rejected this fascist religion and that’s why these christian missionaries are targeting India because their own countries don’t want them.Hindus have every right to kick them out of their countries and send them to the North pole where they can try to convert a few penguins.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:27 am
european - if you would like to know more about Christianity…pl visit Atheism vs Christianity….
you will learn a lot more
and then you will know the difference
there is one interesting discussion going on in that site about why there is a disproportion amongst the prisoners- why the is such a high percentage of prisoners from Christianity ?
there is no disease worse than poverty
there is no poverty worse than IGNORANCE.
August 25th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
God is dead.
Long live the gods.
August 29th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
I was going to respond the european, buts its all good everone has said what I was going to say! But generally in the west, you see people (uneducated) or even educated people (what a waste) like european who like to take cheap shots at Hindus abusing our dignity and maturity. Does European fail to realise that the religion of jesus is one of the mosts barbaric impositions on europe? I feel sorry for european, and generally other white christians, you people go to all lengths to defend some illiterate middle eastern man nailed to wood, you guys are probably the biggest sell out in the eyes of your Gods! At least us Hindus have survived the onslaught of christianity and islam, we are in retreospect the toughest people!
“you ppl should be kicked out of america and europe”, yet the native people in america, australia, and new zealand must resent your overtly barbaric invasion of their sacred land. (Sorry for repeating what others have said, but I am like most of you, sick and tired of idiots like european).
-Muski
August 30th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
I’ve been thinking that the correct term to hyphenate the “white american..white indian…” should really be the european american or the european indian or the european islamist… Europeans ignorance of history is the source of the world’s problems today - an ethnocentric, egocentric, man worshiping theology that disregards karma, moral consequence, and the transcendental and imminanent nature of the divine reality. Thus the european ancestory becomes the most lethal and harmful heritage of the world (though the communists of asia are trying hard to gain that title). Perhaps, if we were simplistic christians we would conclude that the european race bears the mark of cain.
But we must also be cautious of ego/ethnocentrism. Hinduism is great in part because it does not allow us to wallow in a pride of self or nation. It is not for our gain that we work but for the gain of the divine. When we work for our gain we become as evil as christo-islamic sects that are willing to kill, harm, self deceive so that they can get into heaven.
But truth must be expressed and I hope we are all trying to live truth and give love and bring peace into the world that is ready to exterminate life if left to the europeans and their students the muslims.
hariaum
September 1st, 2007 at 8:06 pm
how did christians sell out to god, by converting to christanity how are hindus toughest ppl ever when you ppl bin conquered by everyone who ever invaded india.
British christians destroyed burning the widow traditions which still continue in some parts of india today were you would take a widow and throw her in the fire with her huspand and creamate her alive
you hindus have done the worste crimes against the untouchable hindus
what type of religion has a caste system that holds one group higher then the other in gods eye.
September 1st, 2007 at 8:06 pm
why do hindus believe no one should convert to any religion or its considered selling out to god.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:09 pm
“how did christians sell out to god, by converting to christanity how are hindus toughest ppl ever when you ppl bin conquered by everyone who ever invaded india.”
read a bit of history you loser and then talk, if we were always defeated then tell us how we are still here long after greeks and romans are gone?
the original brits did not follow this dead jews cult, so you guys are losers who are following some cult from the middle east that persecuted your own ancestors haha.
“British christians destroyed burning the widow traditions which still continue in some parts of india today were you would take a widow and throw her in the fire with her huspand and creamate her alive”
more bs, before brits were anywhere near conquering India, the Peshwas already banned it you moron and don’t talk bs, most of the sati cases were voluntary as brit and muslim chronicles provide eye witness accounts.
your sick mindset is evident in statements like these, don’t act like the white christian man has some burden to discharge you loser.
go sort out your own lil pedo priests before you preach to us.
“you hindus have done the worste crimes against the untouchable hindus
what type of religion has a caste system that holds one group higher then the other in gods eye.”
oh and u xtians are so pure?
seems like you forgot when bible was used to justify inquisitions, slavery and colonialism.
what kinda sick religion preaches such things?
“why do hindus believe no one should convert to any religion or its considered selling out to god.”
we believe that converting to hate preaching cults like christianity, nazism, communism is bad.
it has nothing to do with god.
christianity is nothing but a tool for imperialism and conquest for kkk types like you to subdue nonwhites.
September 1st, 2007 at 9:12 pm
“how did christians sell out to god, by converting to christanity how are hindus toughest ppl ever when you ppl bin conquered by everyone who ever invaded india. ”
Yeh right we were conquered …not…and thats why we’re still hindus even upto this day.Just like the bible your mind is full of fiction.
“British christians destroyed burning the widow traditions which still continue in some parts of india today were you would take a widow and throw her in the fire with her huspand and creamate her alive”
Another fiction like the bible but as Hindus we believe in the truth and facts and we know very well that nearly a million women and children were burnt at the stake for being accused being witches by Christians.
“you hindus have done the worste crimes against the untouchable hindus”
Yeh right and even more fiction like the bible.Most Hindus are from the so called lower castes and they’re still staunch Hindus but lets see Christianitys track record from South America to Australia of extermination and genocides of Civilisations running up the more then 400 hundred million people.The Bible has caused more deaths then the Mein Kampf so it rightly needs to be banned.
“what type of religion has a caste system that holds one group higher then the other in gods eye. ”
Well this one area the the bible is not fiction because I’ll least give Christianty the credit for degrading , enslaving and killing most of humanity…
September 1st, 2007 at 9:15 pm
yes hindus are the toughest people and strongest people in the world ideologically. we have a spiritual tradition that has been continuous and strong for over 6000 years. we have fought off all the mlecchas, namely the greeks, hepthalites, muslims, british, portugese and others. while larger and stronger empires like the persians easily fell to arabs, we trounced them. you europeans all converted to christianity, an alien faith, by the year 1000. while we still pray to our great gods and perform all the ancient oblations to them.
no one has ever conquered us. they TRIED to conquer us and have always been beaten back.
christians have been the biggest terrorists in the world, bigger than even muslims. they managed to wipe out an entire continent of people (the americas) and followed terrorist/racist policies like Manifest Destiny, remember that? they enslaved black people, called them inferior, and carried out slave trade. they are responsible for atrocities on humanity like the Goan and Spanish Inquisition…not to mention people like Hitler and the holocaust of jews. they still contribute to terrorism in north east india and are responsible for ethnic cleansing of hindus there.
this website has a comprehensive list of atrocities committed by christians.
http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
hindus dont believe in racism and hatred, things that characterize religions of semitic origin. so we really dont view your religion as being valid.
September 2nd, 2007 at 2:31 am
tell me were in the bible it justify’s slavery, fake book and cult i think hinduism is more likely to be fake and a cult i mean how in the world do you guys believe in worshipping animals and trees.
Could you explain how hindus who convert and become christians and stop believing in hindu gods and believe in the one true god are still hindus
were in the bible is it justified what the europeans did
you and your hindu nationalist lies, was india conquered by every invader that invaded india the answer is yes tell me one country you hindus were able to defeat and keep from ruling your land
hindus outlasted greeks and romans in what way tell me because greeks and romans stopped believing in false gods that you consider it their down fall and while hindus continue to believe in 333 million gods you consdier that great but then again you hindus believe in all gods and all religions which is pretty funny, doesn’t your religous leaders say that all religions are hindus, that everyone is hindu because everyone believes in one god i wonder why ppl make fun of hinduism and call it a false religion.
But yes how are hindus the toughest ppl idealogy wise and physically well physically every invader has taken control parts or all of india never once have hindus successfully fought away invaders. But then explains why india only won one medal last olympics.
September 2nd, 2007 at 3:05 am
Its funny how people are judged on mere physical might. The lion may be physically stronger than man, yet man has tamed the lion, the elephant may be physically stronger than man, yet man uses it as a vehicle, the bear may be phyisically stronger than man, yet it is man that runs this universe. The christian and muslim may be physically strong, but we Hindus still have the upper hand so european whats your point? Ever read the history books thats states ” Hindus are the last surviving pagan religion in the world”. Neo-paganism is on the rise, so is Mayan spirituality in the Americas! As my friends have mentioned in their post, how can you talk about cruelty to untouchables when chruches practice racial discrimination? Also why dont we see any non-eurpean popes in the vatican in the roman catholics almost 2000 years of history? I mean central and south america has the largest population of catholics, who are racially mestizo’s and more staunch in their faith than the europeans? european, you are really wasting your time trying to argue with us, the Hindus will bury you with hard evidence that in the end all you will be able to say is nothing but stuttering bullshit! Oh wait a minute, your already doing that, my mistake!
-Muski
September 2nd, 2007 at 10:38 am
“tell me were in the bible it justify’s slavery, fake book and cult i think hinduism is more likely to be fake and a cult !
The whole bible is about giving a free hand to nutters to go enslave people in the name of rotting corpse on a cross”
“i mean how in the world do you guys believe in worshipping animals and trees”
I rather do that then worship a rotting corpse on a cross.
“were in the bible is it justified what the europeans did”
Well they did it and were inspired by Bible fiction.
“you and your hindu nationalist lies, was india conquered by every invader that invaded india the answer is yes tell me one country you hindus were able to defeat and keep from ruling your land”
Of course a thief will always accuse others of being thieves and that is the history of Christ-insanity for the last two thousand years.When you ever leave your rotting corpse on the cross cult then maybe you should check the facts why Hindus are still Hindus.
“hindus outlasted greeks and romans in what way tell me because greeks and romans stopped believing in false gods that you consider it their down fall ”
Yeh and we’re going to outlast the last follower of the rotting corpse on the cross cult and then theres some hope for the greeks and romans again as they already rejecting the rotting corpse on the cross cult better known as Christ-insanity..
“you hindus believe in all gods and all religions which is pretty funny, doesn’t your religous leaders say that all religions are hindus, that everyone is hindu because everyone believes in one god i wonder why ppl make fun of hinduism and call it a false religion.”
Nope mate we Hindus do not believe in all religions or any one god apart from Dharma which the rotting corpse on the cross cult has no place.
“But yes how are hindus the toughest ppl idealogy wise and physically well ”
Yes of course we are thanks
“every invader has taken control parts or all of india never once have hindus successfully fought away invaders. But then explains why india only won one medal last olympics.”
Yeh and where are those invaders then ? Well the reason we dont win too many medals at the olympics is because we feel sorry for you inbreds and so we let you win instead.
The truth is European is not white but thinks by joining the rotting corpse on the cross cult will automatically make him white but unfortunately thats not the case and just like his false rotting corpse on the cross cult which most Europeans have rejected will end up as rotting corpse as thats Christ-insanity for you..RIP
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:41 pm
i guess european hasn’t heard of paul sending back the escaped slave with a letter, check Timothy 6:1 you idiot before you come on here and spew nonsense.
Or how about this:
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”
—Ephesians 6:5-6.
lol this guy wants to ignore the fact that the Bible was used to justify racism.
here is what the “babble” says
Romans and Greeks worshipped “false” gods, hmm i wonder why then since europe took the to dead corpse nailed to a plywood cult it was all downhill and ended up in dark ages with muslims ruling over you, you guys even stopped bathing until you saw us Hindus.
everyone believes in “one” god, last time i checked many europeans were atheists/agnostics and thing christianity is nothing but nonsense.
“”If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;” (Deuteronomy 13: 6)
“Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.” (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)”
clearly the native americans were “unbelievers”, if “god” supposedly commanded for people to kill their own family members since they did not believe in this tyrant then it does not take much to see how the europeans justified their own genocide of native people and colonialism.
as i said christianity is nothing but a tool for imperialism, a religion that has caused some of the biggest genocides in history and produced hate mongers like Martin Luther who wrote the pamphlet “The Jews and their lies” which was to be later used by the Nazis for their own propaganda.
September 2nd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
the bible clearly states that slavery is acceptable:
“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way” (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
“Could you explain how hindus who convert and become christians and stop believing in hindu gods and believe in the one true god are still hindus”
who said that?
“were in the bible is it justified what the europeans did”
already answered.
“you and your hindu nationalist lies, was india conquered by every invader that invaded india the answer is yes tell me one country you hindus were able to defeat and keep from ruling your land”
1. Chandragupta Maurya and later Pushyamitra crushed and expelled the Greeks.
2. Chandragupta Vikramaditya defeated and repelled Shakas/Kushans.
3. Yashodharma conquered and defeated the White Huns.
4. Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj defeated Aurangzeb which marked the end of Mughal rule in India.
5. The end of British rule in India
6. The end of Portugese rule in India
Hindus have also conquered outside of India:
1. Emperor Lalitaditya - conquered large swathes of Central Asia
2. Rajendra Chola - Conquered Burma, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Lakshadweep, Maldives, conquered the kings of Srivijaya (Sumatra, Java and Malaya in South East Asia) and Pegu islands with his fleet of ships. He also exacted tribute from Thailand and the Khmer kingdom of Cambodia.
3. Raja Raja Chola conquered island-nation of Sri Lanka.
Chola territories:
http://www.encyclopedie-enligne.com/Images/c/carte_chola.png
“hindus outlasted greeks and romans in what way tell me because greeks and romans stopped believing in false gods that you consider it their down fall and while hindus continue to believe in 333 million gods you consdier that great but then again you hindus believe in all gods and all religions which is pretty funny, doesn’t your religous leaders say that all religions are hindus, that everyone is hindu because everyone believes in one god i wonder why ppl make fun of hinduism and call it a false religion.”
well you just explained to the whole world, the mindset of christianity which isn’t much different from that of Islam. that is to christianize the whole world at the expense of other people, cultures, religions, and traditions. greeks didn’t believe in false gods. how do you know they believed in false gods, because your babble says so? no wonder greeks are looking to turn back to their original and true faiths and your clergymen are getting their panties in a bunch because of it. lol.
they never just stopped believing, they ceased to believe because their temples were demolished and many were persecuted for practicing their ancestral religion. another christian lie is that people just stopped believing in their faiths and converted immediately to jesusism.
” * As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
* Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
* Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
* Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as “temple destroyer.” [DA468]
* Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
* Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all Christian teachings…”
* In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
* In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
* The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25] ”
“But yes how are hindus the toughest ppl idealogy wise and physically well physically every invader has taken control parts or all of india never once have hindus successfully fought away invaders. But then explains why india only won one medal last olympics. ”
The fact that the Vedas have been orally transmitted for 6000 years is a testament enough for the resilience and strength of Hinduism. We have survived and beaten back every single invader. Yea, thanks for providing me with the opportunity to make you look like even more of an idiot. In terms of physical culture, ancient India was par excellence. The sport of bodybuilding emerged in India, the ancient Hindu martial arts were transmitted to the East by Bodhidharma. Many of today’s east asian martial arts are of Indian origin. Hindu society reeks of physical culture, it ain’t my fault that you’re dumb. As for Olympics, India is a developing country and doesn’t have money to fund athletes. China was in the same position a few years ago, and the last Olympics the were at the top in terms of medal tally. We will get there.
September 3rd, 2007 at 9:26 am
This must be what european gets upto when he’s not busy coming on HV.
Pastor had sex with daughters
Email Print Normal font Large font August 30, 2007 - 5:37PM
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AdvertisementA fundamentalist church pastor had sex with two of his teenage daughters to educate them on how to be good wives, a South Australian court has heard.
The 54-year-old man, who cannot be named, was today sentenced in the SA District Court to eight and a half years jail after pleading guilty to seven counts each of incest and unlawful sexual intercourse.
The court heard that the man had sex with his daughters for nearly a decade from 1991 when they were aged 13 and 15 at the family property.
The sex took place at various locations including in a shearer’s shed, a paddock, on the back of a ute and, on one occasion, at the girls’ grandparents house.
The man told the court the sex was not about fulfilling his desires but about teaching his daughters how to behave for their husbands when they eventually married, as dictated in scripture.
In sentencing, Judge David Lovell said the misrepresentation of scripture used to justify the abuse of the girls “defied belief”, and that he had “hypocritically betrayed” his religion and principles.
“You said the acts were about learning about sex rather than engaging in the acts of sex,” Judge Lovell said.
“I do not accept that.
“You treated your daughters as your property … using them to satisfy and gratify your sexual urges.”
Judge Lovell gave full credit for the man’s guilty pleas, saying he was genuinely remorseful and had a good chance of rehabilitation as his wife and the church remained supportive.
The man will be eligible for parole in four years.
AAP
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pastor-had-sex-with-daughters/2007/08/30/1188067266454.html
September 4th, 2007 at 8:57 am
because most of the world learned they were worshipping fake gods doesn’t make hindus special
it doesn’t mean you guys outlasted anyone just means you guys havn’t woken up yet that your 333 million gods are fake
reasion christians don’t believe in other gods because you cant
you hindus brag about how hinduism believes all religions lead to one god sad thing is that is imposible because every religion believes in a different god that conterdicts the god the other religion believes in for example muslims and christians believe in different gods that conterdict eachother.
Do you guys believe hinduism is the only religion to god or do you believe all religions lead to god.
Hinduism caste system were untochables are treated worste then rats yet their are animals who are treated like this
ok about muski talking about how lions and elephants are stronger then men yet the man controls the lion and elephant and you claim christians are lions and hindus are man then why is it christians ruled over you for 200 years and why is it portagees came and ruled over many of your ppl and why is it most hindus are living uncer the poverty line and are uneducated and just barely surviving in india why does india have the highest aids in the world
as well hindus have bin conquered by every invader that invaded them either all of india was conquered or parts and india never ruled any other country outside india and thats a fact could you get me a reliable source that claims india ruled any other country and get me facts about india defeating any invader because now your just showing me your little hindu nationalist jokes like how hindu nationalist claim all civilization started in india and spread around the world.
Sports china always won medals and why are some of the south american countrys and african countrys who developing winning medals and buddy india has 300 million middle and upper class and you guys still can’t win medals maybe thats why every invader has defeated the hindus and ruled parts of your land honeslty tell me one invader you guys stopped i mean greeks came and defeated your army’s and ruled parts of your land same with persians same with portageese and same with the british and same with the turks all these ppl invaded and conquered parts or all of your land whwere were your hindu gods then to protect you and save you
September 4th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
I am amazed there are still many people in the world who believe in the British version of Hindu religion despite hundreds of books written by Hindu Indians, hundreds of new temples and programs on radio and television. Brits must have done a good brainwashing job during the Raj.
Instilling wrong ideas about Hinduism still persists in schools and colleges in India. What struck me most during my recent visit to India was the deliberate hatred of Hinduism, Brahmins and its cultural context regularly being slowly instilled in the minds of the poor villagers, students in Convent schools through propaganda. The normal anti-Hinduism propaganda is; the religion has 300 millions of Gods and not one God like Christianity and idols cannot be Gods, there is caste system, practice of sati, and worst of all Hinduism is dirty.
Because of English language used for communication internationally, in big cities parents have opted for their children learning in English by joining Convent schools. The students are enticed to Church programs and all is done so systematically that even during Hindu festivals the Convent schools have special activities in order to keep the students away from their Hindu parents and main stream festivities. Many parents I talked to were afraid of their children not achieving good grades if such extra curricular activities are not attended. One girl of highly educated and middle class family told me that girl who sits next to her in the class always scores high marks for sub-standard home work and in exams because she is a Christian convert. Of course this kind of discrimination is difficult to prove or challenge. And the principal of the same school (a Goan Catholic) demands donation of minimum two lakhs of Rupees from non-Christian parents before admitting their child to his school. These are the facts about organised religions. Personally, I think the education system in India is a scandal. And whose fault is that, you may ask, my analysis is it is not just the corrupt Ministers, it is the intellectuals of India.
September 4th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
lol “fake gods”, the biggest fake god is that dead corpse on a piece of plywood that you losers keep worshipping.
don’t tell me you believe in one god cuz jews and muslims spit on you and your pretensions of monotheism with that ridiculous doctrine of trinity that no one understands.
lol whoever told you that Hinduism says all things lead to god, clearly cults like xtianity, nazism and communism can’t.
india has a billion people, % wise the oh so christian south africa has the worst rate, oops did i forget to mention that the afrikaans church used the bible to justify apartheid, shows you what kinda cult you are following.
learn some history, before 1947 there was no one single political entity called India but everyone knows that Cholas conquered Srilanka, that in itself should expose your ignorance.
now please tell us what’s so true about a religion that:
1) justifies slavery
2) massacre of non believers
3) plunged europe into dark ages
4) justifies racism
5) produces hate mongers like martin luther and francis xavier
6) caused the largest genocides this world has seen
7) was used to justify colonialism
lol you keep claiming the rest of the world woke up, but the reality is more than 5 billion people in this world don’t believe in the christ cult, you may imagine some sort of kinship with muslims and jews but they spit on you and your pretensions of monotheism, buddhists don’t care about your dead “saviour”, so which world you live in mate?
last time I checked even most Europeans are just nominal christians and a substantial portion have already left behind your “religion” as some sort of irrational cult, many have become atheists/agnostics or pagans or taken up eastern religions, so keep deluding yourself but christinsanity is heading down the toilet in europe and you can’t do nothing to stop it except cry on the net.
September 4th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
European will you enjoy a heaven populated by Constatine, the popes, Hitler, Abraham (who raped his slave to have a child), the families of the european dynasties that as ceremony for chirstian knighthood raped serfs who have less rights than the romans or the untouchables?
European, if you are serious about seeking god, then turn away from your own ego. Then you must look at what you mean by god. If it is the bible you think defines god, so be it. But look at Jesus’s answer as to how to judge fals prophets: judge a tree by its fruit. When chirstianity was in control of europe, it was a hell for anyone with any independent will.
But I ask you also look at what is evil. I would suggest that evil is the encouragement of immoral behavior - the greatest ideological basis for acting immorally is a reward and the greatest reward is entry to heaven. Thus if you gaurantee entry to heaven for group membership, your ideology creates, is the foundation for, evil. Non-muslims can see this in islamic fanatacism. Non-chistians can see this in christian fanatacism. It is the ideology of a chritso-islamic church, even the basic reason to join such, that sins are forgiven and entry to heaven gauranteed to sinners; ergo there is no consequence to sinning and sin increases. If you want to believe in this akarmic viewpoint, you are a rakshas.
So if you will look at what in your heart is good, you will realize it has nothing to do with the name of your god, the book you read, or the the culture you come from. That goodness is a basic truth of your atman. So long as you reject that connection between you and the divine, you will be lost and seek rationalization in the chritso-islamic inconsequentialism.
Certainly hindus reject that at times like all humans but when anyone is serious about Brahman as Truth, Awareness, and Bliss they have become hindu. When you are playing at telling god his name must be jesus or allah or whatever it is your ego, not the truth you worship. stop it.
hariaum
September 4th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
I also have for some time thought that we are too liberal in the western context of secularism. We believe that the fundamentalist fail to grasp the true meaning of their religion and thus act badly as does european.
I think otherwise. The fundementalist is the person who grasps the religion. To say one is a christian but for the endorsement of ceaser, slavery, the history, etc is not very meaningful. To say one is muslim but for the multiple wives, the destruction of women’s rights, etc is likewise. The moderate believes in religions “but for.” A devotee believes a religion regardless.
That is not to say a moderate is wrong. For example, most mature religions, like the Gita says you must seek the truth regardless but act with regard to the natural forces around you. Thus a fundamentalist Hindu does karma to make the world better, selflessly. A fundamentalist christo-islmist does karma to make theirself better (ticket to heaven) and in doing so harms the world. When we speak of the good christo-islamist, we must understand that these same persons are rejected by their traditions and thus we should not be using Pasteur, Darwin, the various thersa’s, Fran cisco as examples of christians but as good humans that have rejected the fundamentals that make the christo-islamic sects evil - exclusion, arrogance, mono-thinking, gauranteed heaven…
(in case you don’t agree, wonder what would christianity be if the suffering of jesus did not set aside all sins - a savior, sort of? thus a savior absolute give Hitler entree into heaven and rejects Gandhi - an ideology of evil. You also note that europeans idea of a successful religion is sports and guns both of which can be bought like a commodity and are best purchased by stealing someonelse’s wealth - the history of christianity in theology and materialism. You’ll also imagine european thinks he is a godly person for attacking without insight - regurgitating what s/he’s been told to mono-think. This, my open hearted friends, is the true name of their god, the worship of man and the worship of self.)
hariaum
September 4th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Harish you are absolutely right.
One can add a few more points to your lisit. People forget in Bible, ‘thou shalt not kill’ only applies to killing of humans, it says nothing about protecting animals. So killing elephants, tigers etc. in India was alright. Again ‘love thy neighbour’ only applies to your immediate neighbour, it dosen’t apply to your neighbouring country, so ransacking and looting other country was alright. Let us not talk about ‘thou shalt not commit adultary’ is a joke when 62% couples in Britain alone end up in devorce. And why adultarers like Bill Clinton, John Major, Edvina Curry, many priests, Bishops, and many do-gooders have not been stoned to death as comanded by Bible? Mind you all this also applies to Islam.
You are right about worshipping of corpses. Vedas do not recommend worshipping of dead bodies.
September 4th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
what a joker this guy is, i think madness has enveloped around what’s left of his brain.
here we go…
“because most of the world learned they were worshipping fake gods doesn’t make hindus special”
actually, most of the world was forced into worshipping the so called real “God” through coercion and oppression, the god of isreal and that’s why most are reverting back to their original pre-semitic faiths. That’s why greeks are going back to worshipping at their pagan temples and Christian clergymen are getting so nervous and scared about it. Atheism is now at an all time high in Europe, northern Europe, france etc are whole-heartedly atheist. The only biblie believers are now hicks in the bible belt of America and idiots like you.
“it doesn’t mean you guys outlasted anyone just means you guys havn’t woken up yet that your 333 million gods are fake”
we have outlasted and defeated everyone, and you dumb stupid ass, there aren’t 333 million gods.
“reasion christians don’t believe in other gods because you cant”
yea because the god of isreal is a jealous entity who demands complete submission.
“you hindus brag about how hinduism believes all religions lead to one god sad thing is that is imposible because every religion believes in a different god that conterdicts the god the other religion believes in for example muslims and christians believe in different gods that conterdict eachother.”
Why do you keep repeating lies, please quote us a passage from Vedic literature that says this.
“Do you guys believe hinduism is the only religion to god or do you believe all religions lead to god.”
Nazi type, anti-human religions like Christianity and islam which have caused so much suffering and pain in this world aren’t religions.
“Hinduism caste system were untochables are treated worste then rats yet their are animals who are treated like this.”
Hahahhaha, evidence please. Btw, you still haven’t gotten back to me on Christian slavery. Greek travelers like megasthenes noted that slavery and oppression was non-existant in India.
“why is it christians ruled over you for 200 years and why is it portagees came and ruled over many of your ppl”
Christians naturally want to conquer and subjugate other people, so their instincts took over. That’s why they launched atrocities like the goan inquisition upon hindus, in which thousands of hindus were killed for no reason other than the fact that they were hindu. Please explain this.
“and why is it most hindus are living uncer the poverty line and are uneducated and just barely surviving in india why does india have the highest aids in the world”
why is that India was the richest country in the world for thousands of years?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_GDP_%28PPP%29
why is it that they got poor after coming under brit rule?
“as well hindus have bin conquered by every invader that invaded them either all of india was conquered or parts and india never ruled any other country outside india and thats a fact could you get me a reliable source that claims india ruled any other country and get me facts about india defeating any invader because now your just showing me your little hindu nationalist jokes like how hindu nationalist claim all civilization started in india and spread around the world.”
You’re an idiot. Everyone knows how the cholas conquered most of south-east asia, why do you think temples like Angkor wat exist in Cambodia? You think jesus put it there? Take every name I posted and look it up on wikipedia you dumb moron.
When large empires like Persia which was the strongest, got overrun by arabs, hindus defeated and withstood their attacks. Hindus even gave refuge to displaced people like Zoroastrians. So, since spain got conquered by muslims, does that mean catholics are weak? You’re a moron.
btw, i know you’re not european but indian xtian posing to be european.
September 5th, 2007 at 4:23 am
“ok about muski talking about how lions and elephants are stronger then men yet the man controls the lion and elephant and you claim christians are lions and hindus are man then why is it christians ruled over you for 200 years and why is it portagees came and ruled over many of your ppl and why is it most hindus are living uncer the poverty line and are uneducated and just barely surviving in india why does india have the highest aids in the world”
Its really simple to explain, the lion invades the villiage, and being the absolute brute due to the nature of the lion, the man goes into hiding, until the time comes where man uses his brain to subdue the lion! Sure the portuguese came and tried to rule goa (a small region) but where are they now? where are the dumb stupid portuguese now? They got kicked out and ran back to portugal with their tails between their legs! Where are the british? Did you actually think that their rule in India was eternal?
Your also asking as to why India is so poor? Aww gee I dont know maybe because before the british invaded most of the europeans were under the poverty line and the only reason why many of the european countries are rich today is through the blood, sweat and tears of natives belonging to regions that were far more advanced than your shotty christian(catholic/protestant) societies. Sure go ahead and blame india’s poverty on Hinduism, the answer is failry obvious that it was the europeans that stole our money and shattered the once robust economy of the country. Its all changing now, jobs are being moved to India, while in your european and american cities, Indians are taking your jobs because your people are incompetant low lifes who cannot handle such tasks.
September 5th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Namaste to all
Don’t take every thing the ignorant European says too seriously.
The fact that he hides behind a pseudo name says it all. He does not have the courage of his conviction to come clean. He may not even be an European, perhaps a sheep in a wolf cloth.
I have been living in this country (UK) for the past 40 years and churches all around us are closing down, mostly converted to mosques, bingo halls or flats.
More people attend Yoga classes on Sunday morning than go to church and in my area at least, more than half attending Yoga are Englishmen.
By far most indegnous people of this country are decent, accommodating people. They understand the richness and cultural superiority of Hinduism and most Hare Krishna temples are run by indegnous people, in England, Scotland or Wales.
Who were fighting to save Sambho the bull at Scanda Valley Temple? They were on most part indegnous Welsh people.
If the European does not understand the cultural richness, superiority of Hinduism, it is his loss but most Europeans do and appreciate us as the most law adiding, hard working, highly educated people.
When I fo on holidays to India, Kerala and Gos, I see, meet so many Europeans, Englishmen, Germans, Scandevians etc who come to India in search of truth, peacr and enlightment that they could not find in Europe and America.
We, (Hindus, Sikhs, Jains) along with Jews are the only net contributors to the British treasury, not the Europeans or other ethnic minorities.
Every culture, religion and creed will have ignorent people but fortunately there are very few among the indegnous people of this country. Otherwise BNP would be ruling this country.
Jai Shree Krishna
Bhupendra
September 6th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
muski is that why europeans modernized the world and were the most advanced ppl in the world hence why they were able to conquere ppl like india,
as well it was the portageese who came and scared the local hindus off or kicked their butts the hindus didn’t scare the portagees off thats why the portageese in india for over 100 years
and also its funny how hindus attack christian missionary’s like cowards in india rioting against them having 100 ppl ganging up on three or four missionary’s hoping to scare them off or ganging up and attacking churches like cowards while when the europeans came and portageese came and spread christianity the hindus were to busy running like scared and hiding like you just confessed
funny the type of non sence you hindus talk for example the dude who claimed hindus ruled central india their is no evidence of that. but every country that ever invaded india had come and defeated your hindu army’s and ruled parts or all of your land.
Making fun of christianity and wouldn’t worship a dead man who died or the cross that man rose after 3 days and died on the cross for mankinds sin the god of the bible can be proven were as religions of india are full of conterdictions
bhuddism doesn’t believe in god believes that every human magically has powers within
sikhism believes all gods are the same just different names which i proved earlier is impossible considering each god conterdicts the other
hinduism believes all gods are the same just different names which has bin proved to be impossible plus your gods go to war witheachother how is that possible showing the comedy in hinduism
the ppl in the west who practise yoga do it as a workout to keep in shape 98% of these ppl who practise yoga don’t believe in the myth of hinduism.
ignorant thats why hindus in india are so threatened by christians they attack christians.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
i cant waste my time with this loser, his only refutation to my post is that there’s no evidence even though i just posted a ton of evidence. this guy doesn’t even have a basic understanding of what each religion believes. i think the best thing now would have him get admitted into a mental hospital where he will get along with people like him.
1. this loser still hasn’t replied to my post about bible and slavery
2. hasnt replied about cholas or emperor lalitaditya
3. or any of the great heroes that defend bharat.
cowardly? what is so honorable about spreading a religion that supports pedophilia??
hehehehhehe, sorry but we dont want ur pedophilic religion in our country.
September 6th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
i hope this entire dialog has given hindus some idea of how these perverted minds think. they eulogize mass murders like the portugese (goan inquisition) and hitler………it should at least give you some idea as to why people are beating them up in India.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:37 am
hello im going to get someone to reply to your bible questions but as well hinduism has preists or pandits you call them who rape little girls to bring them into women hood christianity ban’s this just like it banned widow burning and making them live half dead what typ e of religion does that
Tell me about the great hindu heros and while your at it explain how hindus got conquered by every invader that ever invaded india either they conquered part of you hindus or all of you hindus yet you hindus every single invader
hello don’t tell me any bolony tell me this why have hindus bin defeated by every invader to invade their land. No point of denying it plus don’t your gods go to war witheachother yet you guys believe all your gods come from one god wow i think thats why hinduism is just man made myth and legends.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:39 am
i consider myself smart i consider hindus dumb for worshiping rocks elephants cows thats dumb everyone knows it as well.
But Hello why do your gods go to war with eachother
and for all you hindus to prove your gods are fake im about to prove it right now why didn’t any of your war gods who are spose to protect you save you from every invader that entered your country why didn’t they protect you from all the invaders.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:00 am
*yawn* european go find something usefull to do, cos you really look like an idiot now!
-Muski
September 7th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
“Making fun of christianity and wouldn’t worship a dead man who died or the cross that man rose after 3 days and died on the cross for mankinds sin the god of the bible can be proven were as religions of india are full of conterdictions”
ya rightttttttttttttt and pigs fly.
that dead loser who couldn’t even save himself died for us and is gonna save us hahahaha
the god of the bible is a loser whose words are full of hate, what kind of god kills innocent new borns (one of the supposed 10 plagues sent to egypt), he is as real as santa and the tooth fairy.
hehehe is that why europeans are increasingly abandoning your zombie cult?
good riddance to christinsanity !!!
and european stop molesting little boys you pervert.
September 7th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“conquered by every invader that ever invaded india either they conquered part of you hindus or all of you hindus yet you hindus every single invader”
yea keep blabbering. u still aint givin us any evidence when india was conquered completely. invaders were always pushed out. tell us why india is still hindu then instead of being christian or muslim? yea please explain that to us.
i dont think a criminal minded religion like christianity shud advise us on morality, i mean u’re the ppl that produced monsters like hitler who wiped out millions of people.
why didnt jeebuz protect your missionaries wen they were getting the beats? heheheheheh, friggin loser.
spain was conquered and ruled by muslims for hundreds of years until they got pushed out, does that main catholics are weak?
a list of hindu heroes. look them up you loser.
1) Prtihviraj Chauhan
2) Hammir Deo Chauhan
3) Maharana Hammir
4) Maharana Kumbha
5) Maharana Pratap Singh
6) Lachit Borphukhan
7) Durgadas Rathore
8) Sri Krishna Deva Raya
9) Chhatrasal Bundela
10) Gokul Singh Jat
11) Rajaram Jat
12) Maharaja Surajmal
13) Lalitaditya Muktapida
14) Jaimal & Patta
15) Kumara Kampana
16) Vema Reddy
17) Prolaya Nayaka
18) Kapayya Nayaka
19) Harihara Raya
20) Bukka Raya
christianity is an embarrassment to the world, stop manhandling little boys u pedo.
September 7th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Some ignorant people think that Hindus priests rape girls as a normal pratice? I highly doubt that; but there is an interesting news article on yahoo! about Catholics and sex abuse which can be found here :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070907/ap_on_re/church_abuse_bankruptcy
Anyways, the Catholic chruch as had to payout over 1 BILLION dollars to over 2000 people since 2002 due to old perverted priests not being able to keep their hands off little boys and girls.
A point I would like to make is that material wealth does not equal spiritual wealth. A country may have cars, planes, and fancy malls, but that does’nt mean that country has a “true” religion. If material wealth did equal spiritual wealth, then we should all convert to Bill Gates religion which is Agnosticism. America has a wonderful standard of living, but in terms of religion and wisdom it is a third world country.
September 7th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
America is poor in terms of religion and wisdom not because of Capitalism or Science, but because of Christianity. It is bad when a religion, like Christianity, encourages its members to hate or look down upon others who are different. Many times I’ve noticed that those fundie Christians who hate or dislike Hindus, also seem to have a racial hatred of others as well. I never met a Hindu who converted to Christianity that became a better person, they always seem to become a worse person. And I think this says a lot about the character of the Christian Religion.
Anyway, the fact is that Christianity in America is declining. America was 88% Christian in 1990, and now its around 77%. America was never meant to be some Christian Taliban nation, it was meant to be a democracy. And all beliefs have a right to share in this democracy equally.
September 8th, 2007 at 4:41 am
It is important to realize that the real damage evil does in the world is to have people commit evil and not be aware of it: jihad and crusades and inquisitions… How does one know if their ideology is evil. european is unable to define or protect his ideology with mind or scripture and yet s/he believes his/her beliefs are true. This is the ultimate sin, to fail to try and see god as truth. We become so focused on trying to be right we even tell god his has to be jesus or allah or krishna or buddha… No matter how much truth knocks on your door and keeps slamming you with evidence your long term habit of wanting to be right, to be saved, to want entry to heaven blind you and thus the lesser religions prosper as people worship themselves rather than god.
european and europeans are stuck. On the one hand they have this insane religion to the east trying to destroy all cultures in the world (islam), on the other they have a history of having done the same thing. Being out of hands, they have to accept that history in Europe died until the church was rejected in the enlightenment and in the process of the church dying the europeans wiped out so many good persons that the world (Asia, Afirca, the Americas, and even Europe) still suffers from the long term karmic fields of such injust ideology. It was indeed the rejection of christianity that brought europe out of the dark ages and this will also be true for european.
But, lost in this karmic field, they find hope in a mature religion that worships god as truth, by whatever name you call it. Now they must really recognize how much their so called great culture was barbaric and harmful to humanity. Even they must accept how much of their own enlightenment came from these mature religions (the use of symbolic money, the preservation of food, hygiene, mathematics, astronomy, political philosophy of egalatarianism…). Worse yet for european and europeans is that these religions and people are succeeding where equal opportunity is provided and they are failing (economically and ideologically).
What poor european to do but become even more rigid to the one thing s/he has - entry to heaven, a belief in false history, and false belief of egoistic grandness. It is for Krishna to open his soul. But we are all happy to help him/her on the way to god as truth, not some false idol based on a mythic history (where so much scientific searching has found no evidence of a jesus with miraculous powers).
european, look in your heart, that truth there we call Brahman. You will call it by a different name until you stop needing to tell that truth what it is. Then you will surrender your egoistic perspective to truth, not some evil inducing demon, and Brahman will guide you. Your words and beliefs are empty, seek truth.
hariaum
September 8th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Hello,
You fergot the most important Hindu heroe, Shivaji of the Marathas. Shivaji captured Delhi from the occupying Moguls, defeated Aurangjheb, won many battles with other Mogul armies, destroyed the British fleet and looted them in Surat. He also warned the nation of British cunning and that they will be our next enemies. You also fergot Teg Bahadur who was Sikh but of Hindu descend.
September 9th, 2007 at 8:12 am
“and for all you hindus to prove your gods are fake im about to prove it right now why didn’t any of your war gods who are spose to protect you save you from every invader that entered your country why didn’t they protect you from all the invaders. ”
That is the most ridiculous statement ever, I could ask a similar question, why didnt your god give you deliverance from the ravages of the black death in europe? Why didnt your god protect you from the numerous smallpox epidemics? Where was your god during the leprosey and tuberculosis epidemics?
-Muski
September 9th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
I just want to say that Jesus never existed. He was a combination of Jewish and Hellenic elements and was meant to be a teaching myth, not literalist story or fact of history. The stories of Dionysis (Greek), Osiris (Egyptian) and Mithras (Iran) are an exact parallel.
Or if Jesus existed he was a practising Jew which the Roman Catholic Hitler would have gassed, Christian Crusaders would have masscred, Russian Orthodox Cossacks committed pogroms against, etc.
According to one tradition Jesus was the son of hairdresser Mariam (Mary) and a Roman soldier called Pandera (his grave was found in Germany). Hence Jewish Talmud calls him Yeshua Ben Pendera. So Joseph really wasnt his father, and it looks like Mary had the same morals as the female congregation at any Singh Sabha gurudwara. Well I guess the Roman leagionnaires had to do something when all that spaghetti was finished.
So European, how does it look to be following someone that never existed? Or if he did was an observant Jew who founded no new religion, just like Nanak founded no new religion. Christianity and Sikhism are both false ideologies, and its not surprising that Protestant missionaries like Macauliffe acted as midwife to the dead child of Sikh separatism. False gods must include those that never existed like Jesus and the keshdhari Nanak, as opposed to Nanak the Bhakti, or Jesus the teaching myth, Jesus the observant Jew, Jesus the son of Mary and Pandera (not Joseph), Jesus the Jewish version of the myths of Osiris, Dionysis, Mithras.
FROM SIKH APOSTATE WHO ATTENDED CHRISTIAN SCHOOL AND NOW REOWNS HIS HINDU PAST
September 10th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Mahadev,
Jesus was always presented as son of God and Mary was his mother. So Jesus’s father in heaven wherever it may be and in whatever form he may be and mother Mary claiming to be virgin, it is all load of bolonie. What beats me is why the Christians have been believing in it and how come they are managing to hoodwink the poor Indians also who have the clear cut definition of Creator from Upanishad. Now the missioneries are telling us Jesus also visited India, without giving any reason of course. If he (if existed at all) did visit India the reason must have been (like Muhammad) he had heard of advanced Hindu civilization from where he could learn a few tricks. And the trick he learnt was what Brahama said as he described himself by starting with ‘aham’ meaning ‘I am’. Looks like Jesus returning back to Jerusalem said, ‘I am that I am’ as in Bible. Without realising Brahama was ‘holy spirit’ while Jesus was standing on his own feet as a human being. Although Bible was not wriiten by Jesus. How these people still cary on I don’t know.
September 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Kumar, it is ignorance that drives one to superstition. You’re absolutely right about our own wonder as to how these people believe the tribal stuff that gets called religion.
You and I, along with many on this web site, were lucky to be born into a family, tradition, and karmic field that promotes honest searching for Tat Sat.
It is because of people like european that we need to be out there teaching people about a Hinduism so that the weight of ignorance can be lifted off the earth. This is why I say Hinduism is great because of its past but important because of what it gives to the future.
hariaum
September 11th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
when america and europe were christian country’s is when they became superpowers unlike hindu india i mean were where your hindu gods when greeks invaded and conquered parts of your land or when the turks or persians or afghans or british or the portageese conquered your lands were where your hindu war gods when your hindu army’s were getting chased and beaten down.
why is it when the europeans invaded india the hindus were to scared to say anything yet hindus attack christian missionary’s by ganging up on them why is it hindus attack christians like cowards in india yet complain about what happened in america. But this is why that a cathlic women like sonia gandhi is needed to guide you poor poor ppl i mean what type of religion is hinduism anyways nothing but made up myth and legends.
The reasion jesus died on the cross was to pay the price for our sins so we could have eternal life in heaven and if he had saved himself we would not have forgivness for our sins because god is so perfect he paid a price for our sins and as well cannot live with sin because he is so perfect hence why we believe jesus christ is the way to heaven and why we spread the gossipal.
Jesus claimed for man to love their enemy to treat everyone as equals were as hinduism has caste system widow burning and i was recomanded the movie “water” made by a hindu women i heard very depressing movie and shows how backward hinduism is.
i read this one article about how hindus pay money to your pandits to fix their karma so you need man to do this thats such balony were as christianity believes god is the only one to believe in and not stupid superstitions.
why do hindus believe all religions lead to one god when thats impossible when all religions believe in a different god who cannot be the same as the other god showing your religion is myth and legend
how did your gods go to war with eachother if they come from one god
only one religion can be true in the world since all religions conterdict eachother and it can’t be hinduism sikhism bhuddism and jainism because if you believei n reincarnation and are against missionary’s and spreading your religion then if only one religion can be true what type of religion and god would keep its ppl from spreading the pathway to god and how does reincarnation work in these 4 religions you come back as grass then insect what balony and what if your born again as human but in wrong religion isn’t that kind of unfair because person can’t find true pathway to god if your religion is against missionary work.
Christians spread the gossipal because we believe its the only way to god that is why god blessed our country’s when we held strong to are christian values yet when these country’s let go of their christian values like america these country’s go down hill.
Isn’t hinduism on the decline in india and christianity the fastest growing religion in india is that why you hindus feel insecure. I mean isn’t india moving towards material wealth.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
“The reasion jesus died on the cross was to pay the price for our sins so we could have eternal life in heaven and if he had saved himself”
Ok thats good so least the rotting corpse on the wooden cross done us some good.So now you can do the same for us while we continue sinning..Thanks
September 11th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
muski portago came and kicked your hindu army’s ass and conquered goa and their the reasion goa is so beautiful today and the reasion the portageese left goa was because in the 1960’s india cryed for control and holding onto goa wasn’t a good buisness move for the portageese but were where your hindu gods when the portageese and the british were defeating your hindu army’s.
Hello look and read your own history were where your hindu gods when the greeks came and destroyed your hindu army’s and conquered your lands or when the turks came and conquered your hindu lands and destroyed your hindu army’s or when the persions conquered your hindu lands and destroyed your hindu army’s or when the afghans conquered your hindu lands and when the portageese came and defeated your hindu army’s and conquered your hindu lands or when the british came and destroyed your hindu army’s and conquered all of your lands.
hinduism full of superstitions i mean what type of religion has a god that has its ppl go to other humans who are not perfect and commit sin and pay them money to fix their karma and destiny and were stupid rings i mean what type of god needs unperfect humans to do this proving hinduism is wrong and myth and legend were as christianity asks us to turn to god and not other humans.
only one religion can be true in the world since all religions conterdict eachother and all the gods they believe in conterdict eachother and all the religions of inda being hinduism bhuddism sikhism and jainism must me false for one they believe all religions lead to god which is impossible secondly they don’t believe in doing missionary work so if only one religion can be true its kind of unfair for these religions and their so called gods restrict ppl from learning the pathway to god were as christianity believes in showing all men a pathway to god
how does karma work in your religions your born again as grass insecects and when your back as human you might be born into the wrong religion and have to go through it again which is conterproductive and weird.
Jesus christ could of saved himself and if he had it would of bin conterproductive see christians believe god is perfect and cannon live amongst sin and when jesus died on the cross he paid the price for our sin and through him we have forgivness of sin and can enter the kingdom of heaven because god cannot live amongst sin because he’s so perfect but beleiving in jesus is the only way to heaven thats why we spread the gossipal. Unlike india’s religions were they believe god can live within sin and all religions lead to god showing how wrong you ppl are.
america and europe grew as superpowers when they were christian country’s built on christian principles and now are going down hill as they turn their backs on christianity and this is predicted in the book of genisis in the bible that man would turn its back on christ and that is why country’s like america are going down hill. But india turning to material wealth and turning away from their fake religion but god bless the hindus who have relized how backward they are and have let a cathlic by the name of sonia gandhi lead you misguided hindus and hence why india is on the rise
hinduism and christianity well in the bible jesus said love your enemy and that treat everyone like your own brother no matter what religion and how rich or poor or whatever yet hindus have caste system and burn their widows but thanks to the british christians who destroyed this rule but a friend recomanded the movie “water” made by a hindu women showing how backwards hinduism is towards women making widows go through hell because that is what their religion calls for.
Why is it when the portageese and other europeans invaded india and brought christianity you hindus were hiding scared yet now you hindus attack christian missionary’s like such cowards by ganging up on them and rioting against them sad to see it takes 30 christians to attack one christian missionary like bin going on for years in india all these murders and church burning by your coward hindu ppl yet you ppl get angry of what happened in america when you do all this in india.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:32 am
“The reasion jesus died on the cross was to pay the price for our sins so we could have eternal life in heaven… ”
What BS, European, your living in the Dark Age. There was no adam or eve, just EVOLUTION. There was NO virgin birth, nor miracles or etc. Grow up and learn to think as well as learn some science and history and then you would yearn for a better religion like Hinduism. European, you’ve put so much of your faith in fairy tales and lies that deep inside you it troubles you that others reject what you hold so dear, and this reveals your insecurities. They reject it not because they are evil or egotistic, but because see and know that the Bible is not a fountain of truth like you foolishly believe it is. The bible is false, jesus was just a man, these are TRUTHS that you just can’t tolerate.
News flash, the Earth goes around the sun and the world is not flat like the bible states:
“take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)
“[T]he devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them”
(Matthew 4:1-12)
“The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth. (Daniel 4:10-11)
These obvious errors are just some of the proof that the bible is false. As for your understanding of Hindu history, its pathetic. Your kind killed and enslaved millions; your kind is the biggest devil that history has ever seen.
And if Christians are getting beat up in India, then where is the mighty Jesus? Can’t Jesus protect his followers? Oh, thats right, Jesus is DEAD!!!
The richest person in the UK is Hindu, the most succesful ethnic group in the USA and UK are Hindus. All of Latin America is Christian, but they are among the poorest nations on earth. Something to think about…
September 12th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
When Martin Luther listed his 99 theses on the catholic church, one he noted with the church was the practice of dispensation - the use of money to buy entry to heaven. This is still done. The mormons expect the thithe to be paid and if it is not then your balance to entry to heaven is negative. The protestant work ethic, as it is falsely called, suggests that if you get money in this life, it was predetermined because you are a godly person and the money reflects entry to heaven. They eat bread and think it is the body of their christ, drink wine and it is the blood - ritual canabalism. They go to church and sit listening to lectures and think they are purified by a sprinkling of water on their head…. Christians and muslims believe that we are of sin. Their belief in a god such that that god made a mistake by creating us and has to correct his error by sending saviors, prophets… They believe in an error prone god. Hmm, I’ld call this basically superstition, elementary religous thought suited for a child to be scared of monsters in the woods and dangerous ideas that disagree with the one and true business, no “faith”. Ask your self, why do we live in a less than perfect god’s domain, a demon that traps us in sin unless we say his name propperly? If your god can not live with sin, why did he create a sinning system that needed salvation? He was mistaken? Isn’t a less than perfect god who claims to be the supreme being the definition of satan? How do you recognize satan? by some superstitious name? By the actions of his flock? By a gaurantee of salvation despite your moral behavior?
As to the history, look at the US constitution. When the founders of the US said the state should not establish relgions they were not thinking no muslims, no hindus, no buddhists.. They were thinking no christians. They had seen what christians had done to europe and wanted to prevent that here. You’ll also find that the legitimization of the feudal lords and kings was made in the name of jesus. The US rejected such sovereignty and said sovereignty comes from WE THE PEOPLE, another frank rejection of christian ideology. The word “in god” were not a part of the original pledge of allegiance but added on 100 years later by right wing chrisian fanatics (the same group the set up prohibition and then was forced out of power by WE THE PEOPLE) (the same group that put evolution on trial and then lost to WE THE PEOPLE).
Following the christian realm of the Louis et al of France, England, Germany (where colonialism and slavery were propagated), a secular revolution went through europe like fire (agni) and liberated the people of europe from the bondage of christianity. When France, Germany, England, Russia, … said they want to be secular states, they were rejecting, formally, christianity. They weren’t thinking, “oh lets keep the hindus and muslims out” They were thinking, “the christian church has ruined our continent, we must never allow it to gain such power again”
It was this rejection that allowed democracy to flourish in europe and america. This rejection that allowed the progress of science to develop modern medicine, modern communication, modern egalitarianism, transculturalism… And if you look further into this rejection, you will read the leaders of enlightenment looking to India, to Hinduism, to the Maya, China (the non-christo-islamic states) as examples of true civilization and spirituality.
So, despite your failure to grasp cause and effect in history, you ask why hindus turn the other cheek, then you argue the jesus did it because he was good. That in itself proves the moral poverty of christians. Their inability to follow their own guru. You might blame yourself for your sinful ways and falling away from the truth. To some extent this is true. But really what it points to is the failure of your guru (some mythic jew you call jesus) to teach you how to live a moral life. Thus, you must admit either he was a poor teacher, a poor savior, or a demon. Regardless, as a person seeking truth, you must, like history, reject the christo-islamic tribal mono-think, and embrace reality that is - Tat Sat.
I doubt anyone here minds if you call yourself a christo-islamic Nazi. But we all care if your soul is trapped by demon-teachings and thus you act like a rakshas and continue to justify himsa.
Seek not the church, seek the truth; seek not the glory, seek to love. From untruth come to truth (asato ma sat gamaya). From lazy self deception come to buddhi driven ego surrender to the supreme (tamaso ma jyotir gamaya). From ignorant worship of death and heaven come to the immortal truths - sanatana dharma - (mrtyur ma amrtam gamaya). May peace be with you, with your people, and with the universe (shanti, shanti, shantihi).
hariaum
September 12th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
i wish the mods would disallow this moron’s posts from appearing anymore.
he repeats the same thing over and over again and i dont have the patience to reply to him multiple times on the same subject, its not my fault if he’s brain dead and has an inherent inability to comprehend the posts of other people.
this guy “european” is a good reason to introduce legislation against missionary activity in india and banish/expel/exterminate all indian christians (to america, where american christians will love having the darkies they converted living amongst them) who have deluded themselves into thinking they also acquire white skin when they convert into an alien cult, “european” is a prime example, he thinks he’s white european, but anyone with half a functional brain can figure out that he’s some loser from AP or Kerala, two of the states where missionary activity is at an all time high. he has declined to comment thus far on any of the posts i made, including the one about slavery being endorsed by the biblie.
on the bright side, im glad that one of the other judaic heresies, Islam, is taking such an aggressive stance against missionaries in their land. Let us hope the korean missionaries are martyred without further due, in this matter alone, the Taleban have my full and uncompromising support.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Just in case you didn’t know, portugese (and dutch) were defeated several times by shivaji maharaj, they were defeated again and sent back to where they came from by the indian army some years after independence.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:37 am
“hinduism full of superstitions i mean what type of religion has a god that has its ppl go to other humans who are not perfect and commit sin and pay them money to fix their karma”
And what about allegiance to the pope who is nothing but a corrupt spiritually defunct person! What about the sale of indulgencies to get relatives out of purgatory? What about the worship of relics? The worhsip of saints? Saints interceding for common medical ailments?
What about John Tetzel (does an ignorant person like you know who he is)? Prior to Martin Luthers publication of his 95 thesis, he was offering indulgencies even to those who violate the mother virgin mary? Isnt Tetzel nothing but a mere human? You make no valid case, not to mention that your English is attrocious, and yet your so called God is the final judge? Let this guy post, I personally feel its good practice to rebut him, helps me bank on more knowledge to confront people like him in real life which for me is an almost everyday occurrence!
-Muski
I dont know which part of Europe your from,
September 13th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
I kind of like european.
1) he’s a fool. A constant challenge that allows us a launch pad to discuss this important issue further.
2) he reminds us of the existence of the problem. We become complacent when the ignorant remain quiet and complacency is not something we want in ourselves.
3) his thought process is, at times, reflected in our conversations and it is important for rigorous thinkers to be able to point to less rigorous thinkers and guard ourselves against it.
4) we have to admit he has a passion, even if it is to simply restate the same nonsense, nontruth. This passion is a power and something we should be tuned into to in the zealots that hide in our world, they will cause himsa and we as caretakers of this tradition must never lose sight of it (9/11, 7/7, jihads, crusades, evangelicals)
5) our own people learn the same nonsense that s/he is spewing. the discussion allows us to help our own see the emptiness of european and other such passionate but misguided persons and thus the emptiness of their faith.
so let him/her continue. Perhaps one day our retorts will bring her/him to an awareness of truth that thus far s/he has rejected out of egoism.
hariaum
September 13th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
I apologize to european. I did not mean fool in point (1), rather foil - a literary device/character that allows for the development of a story line or idea.
hariaum
September 15th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
If Christianity is so advanced can European explain why Asia’s only Christian majority country is mired in poverty and is a magnet for sex tourists? I am referring to the Philippines.
September 15th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I like European - the person is a funny character, as well as sprouting the same crap over and over he writes with a level of english that makes me think of “just left school at 16 with very little education”
he has stated that he is going to get someone to retort to the questions about the bible quotes… so he does not know what much about his own holy book
Never mind European your Messiah will come down one day to save your sorry, uneduated ass and guess what if he is anything like the first incarnation… he will have brown skin and black hair… (as he lived in the Middle east)…
oh wait that makes him look like an Indian…
oops - never mind European - you can look at your Blond haired and blued eyed picture of the Son of Man and keep praying….
and while you are doing that maybe you can go onto u tube and show us the evidence of how a man can walk on water…
give us a response you are a quality comedian
oh dear European - the
September 16th, 2007 at 6:12 am
I must butt in here.
Fault is not european’s for what he is. Fault is ours and because we did not explain Hindu religion to people like him more correctly and positively, and we didn’t care either. There are many poor people in India who have fallen victim to aggressive missionaries and Church money. We are also not organised enough to reach the poor in the streets, farmers and ordinary people who are craving for education in order to understand industrialization which was denied to us by first the Muslim Moguls who just wanted to loot the country and then the British who wanted to loot as well as destroy our religions.
Also white skin worshipping is responsible for enticing and capturing people like European. European missionaries took advantage and are still taking by visiting villages and remote places in India and converting the poor by offering money and food. For centuries Hindus have been suffering from this. Why do you think this cheap and uneducated Sonia Gandhi is heading Congress Party? She has taken advantage of our gullibility to white skin and stupidity of our Congress supporters. A black Pope will not be listened to in India. Then people like european will feel shy and rethink. Even Sonia knows that. To day any Tom, Dick and Harry goes to India and start teaching about God without even knowing who he is. We should remind ourselves whenever we come across people like european that unlike us God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is in the sky. Ours is right within us in our Aatma. We have to make sure these mediocres do not succeed. Let them fight; we should remain qualm and united. We Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs belong to Vedic teachings and traditions. But we must not isolate people like european, afterall they are Indians and our people. They should be encouraged to learn the correct Hinduism and am sure they will become the true Indians.
September 18th, 2007 at 10:07 am
“Fault is not european’s for what he is. Fault is ours and because we did not explain Hindu religion to people like him more correctly and positively, and we didn’t care either.”
you’re mistaken. people like him won’t change because their religion requires them to remain ignorant and dumb. you think he’s going to embrace or tolerate hinduism even if he knows about it?
September 19th, 2007 at 5:56 am
To a certain degree you may be right. But in my time I have managed to change mind of a very English (not half baked like europe) about his religion. One Minister of the Church in London even admitted that Hinduism is more logical than Christianity, because he saw it explains the Creator and his incarnations, the Universe, four phases of Earth, mathematics, the rituals, the Soul and its reincarnaion, four tendencies of human mind (Varnas), the Yogas (union) etc. Which other religion has given such knowledge to the humans? He admitted the religion being for Human race and not just for the big mouthed, hecklers, sord wavers, cunning charismatic priests who can brainwash others to do their dirty work at the drop of the hat in the name of their God. Eg. invasion of India, wars in Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Pakistan, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, Europe and Africa. Europe has been brainwashed by such priests, hence his views. But I agree with him Hindus did defend their faith ‘tooth and nail’. It can still be done by understanding our Hinduism correctly and presenting it calmly with confidence and dignity.
All Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have one common factor; they do not know who their God is and it is somewhere in the sky. So their religion on Earth is politics and without spirituality. We have to get people like europe out of this jam. Only recently some one has pointed out the name ‘Abraham’ is anogram of ‘Brahama’.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Leaving aside euro,
I’ve concluded, perhaps wrongly, that when the judeo-christo-islamic religion formed, they were in contrast to the Brahmanic religion predominant at the time. They chose to signify that they were a reaction to Brahman and changed the name of their first prophet from Abram to A-Brahman as a denial of universal principles and an embracing of tribalism - a belief that Brahman does not exist, that the universe is godless. Then an adoption of the god of Abram as the only god that deserves worship - meaning worship of the priest/guru was higher than the worship of the Supreme since now the priest/prophet named the “right” god.
So though others see it as a common root, I see it as a specific denial of the Brahman/Vedic tradition of the transcendant and material Supreme TAT SAT that is Tat tvam Asi. Once the tribe of Abram decided that we should worship truth only through prophets, they acquired the tool of tribal ideology that made them what they are. This is why scripture is so important to them - without the scripture there is no Ulemma, Church, tribalism or control. Each person would then be allowed to experience the Supreme as it really is; no power for the church. The scriptural dogmatic approach to religion is A-Brahmanic since it denies the Atman/Brahman identity and declares the Atman-Brahman disintegration that needs to be the right scripture (guru/prophet/group….)
You’ll note that most pre-christo-islamic religions are well acquainted with the idea and belief of Brahman (at least in substance if not name). It is this that they truly worship. They live largely peaceably coexisting until the tribal control of religion invades their lands.
But then I’ve been mistaken before.
hariaum
September 19th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
clarification:
The scriptural dogmatic approach to religion is A-Brahmanic since it denies the Atman/Brahman identity and declares the Atman-Brahman disintegration that needs to be corrected by the one and only right scripture (guru/prophet/group….)
hariaum
September 20th, 2007 at 6:58 am
Sorry about two mistakes in the above, name ‘europe’ should be read ‘european’ and in the penultimate para, ‘Hindus did defend’ should be read ‘Hindus did not defend’.
September 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Navin,
The scriptures of Judaism, Christianity and Islm are dogmatic and doctrinal which, as you say, have denied true identity of ‘atma’, making them disjointed with the Creator. It shows in their arrogance, squabling, murdering other humans and battling for larger piece of Earth.
The beauity of Hinduism is its scriptures are not doctrinal and creations of any Prophet, so the elements of human nature, e.g. jeolosy, greed, anger and enmity have not entered or cause of the scriptures. Remember Krishna although narrated Geeta was not a Prophet, he was incarnation of Vishnu. No Prophet can be considered as manifestation of incarnation of our creator.
Can the correction you want be ever achieved? It is already happening, but slowly. Judaism is on the verge of admitting Jesus may be the expected Messiah, without of course proof of his existance. Churches no more propagate God as Holy Ghost or Holy father in heaven but as Holy spirit like Brahama of the Hindus. Muslims have now realised Koran was narrated by Prophet Muhammad in anger because of his circumstances, and draconian Sharia laws were brouhgt in by the Shiekhs some 300 hundred years after Muhammad to keep thier control over the followers and that they cannot be applied uniformly. Unfortunately in the mean time lot of humans will lose their lives, it is sinfull.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Let me add more to European’s thinking problem, I hope it wakes him up.
It is not just generaton of European’s but our brainwashing started 170 years ago. Read below how:
Lord Macaulay’s address to British parliament
on 02 February 1835:
“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not come across a single person who is a beggar, who is a thief.
“Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever be able to conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them a truly dominated nation”.
We can see the result of such policies even today when we see Macaulay’ great grand children like European who always tern up in suits, emulate the English, take their names, try to stand out as if they are not Indians and follow their instructions at the expence of India. Such people are very important to America and Britain to do their dirt work.
October 20th, 2007 at 6:58 am
I don’t know why I am supose to explain every time I exress my views.
In my previous comment I said, ‘people like European are important to America and Britian’. Why?
Since Macaulay, their grand desire and dream to conquer India for Chrisendom is still on board, only methods are different. This time they want to conquer it from within and that means converting the poor, the illitrate to their faith and putting them in charge of administration of the country. By that they will be able to block the applications for developments of any kind which are not in the interest of Christian countries and for getting the lucrative contracts of armaments, fertiilisers, oil under Assam, etc. It is already happening in states of Kerala, north east and south of India. Divide and rule. This is the dirty work I am talking about.
Remember how Mahatma Gandhi successfully threatened the British to paralise their Raj by admistrative ‘non co-operation movement’? And it worked. The vindictive British want to use the same medicine on majority Hindu India in case their schemes go wrong in future. So, Mr European beware! Alas, Macaulay’s grand children (Macaulay must be laghing in his grave), Mr Europeans in India are also Indians.
So, what can we do? We should go back to our scriptues, study them and not rely only on poojas after poojas to conduct our lives. Like Abrahamic religions Hindu scriptures are not politisized and they do not ask to look for God in the sky. We should take people like European in confidence and remind them of dangers set by the West for conquering India once again through back door and from within.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
American society is a tolerant society. In the name of freedom anybody can say anything provided it does not hurt americans and their government. There are many hindu temples in US. They are all functioning very well. Many important americans visit those temples. They evince interest in our philosophy and read our books. A Vedic hymn was sung during the convocation in MIT. There are chairs to teach hindu philosohy in almost all great US Universities. There are very many yoga training centres all around. Only problem is that somebody tries to take patent on Yogic postures and try to make money out of it. Yoga is more popular in US than in some parts of India. Some right wing politicians under the influence of the churches did protest the recitation of the hindu hymn in the senate. Because they find the hindu religion and its philosophy a real threat to christianity, which it really is. More Americans, British and Frech try to read Bhagawat Gita and there are good many of them to say it is a great book and are prepared to spread the message of Gita. Let us be tolerant. The day is not far off when hinduism will spread all over the world and convince people of its supremacy.
October 24th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
I was there present during the consecration of one of the temples in America. Many idols of deities, like, Mahalakshmi, Saraswathy, Kali, Parvathy, Durga were installed in the temple. There was huge crowd of people witnessing the consecration ceremony. Some US journalists asked why there should be so many goddresses. I replied that just like a woman plays different roles in the house, the role of a mother who feeds the family, role of wife to her husband, role of a daughter to her parents, role of a friend to her other friends, role of a boss in the office she works, role of a subordinate to her own boss, we have goddress to display different phacets of her role of educator, wealth giver, etc. Who is the demon the Kali is shown to be killing they asked. I said there is no demon. It is symbolic of the demon within you, the demon of greed, the demon of jealousy, the demon of anger etc. We pray the Goddess to kill all those demons which are residing in you. It is believed that there are eight soch demons which make our lives miserable. Ashta Vairi, they say. My reply was very much appreciated. It all depends on how you display your philosophy to the general public. It is all accepted and respected.
October 26th, 2007 at 7:01 am
Mr Menon,
I agree with your advice to Hindus about remaining tolerent. In Britaian not many people know Hindu religion is not recognised officially. Only religions recognised by the Government are the Abrahamic religions.
The reason being the Church of Egland is an ‘established religion’. So unless it recognises Hindu religion as ‘Religion’ the Government will not be able to do it. The dilema C of E have is that once they recognise Hindu religion, they have to accept and recognise the lineage of incarnations (Avatars) of Vishnu, right to Lord Krishna as tenth Avatar, which they have dismissed as myth.
Most importantly for them the recognition of Hinduism would mean end to their aims of converting (they call it soul by soul) India to Christianity. Soon the already converted Hindus will start questioning, the Pope and
C of E about authenticity of Christ, and Christianity in India will collapse like pack of cards.
October 28th, 2007 at 6:37 am
Mr Menon,
I never present Hindu religion as supreme than other religions, that’s exactly what ‘Prophetic’ religions have to do for surival and wage wars for it everywhere. And they are still at it.
I find Hinduism and I also prove to them that it is more logical and spiritual.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not have written down definition of the Creator. Their God is emaginary and is in the sky, as Vidal Gore found it. In Hinduism our creator ‘Brahama’ is well defined and one cannot have better definition than that. Geeta tells that every living thing has a soul within and is in the cycle of reincarnations. This has been well researched and proved. All other religions have evoled out of Hindu relgion, hence one finds their expectancy of Messiha identical to Krishna’s promise. And many other stories in their scriptures have roots in Vedas, Upanishads and Geeta. In Islam, Prophet Muhammad himself came from Hindu Kuresh family and in anger imposed his religion on others, based on exactly opposite principles to Hinduism for supremecy. Sooner the leaders of Abrahamic religions come to their senses the better for the survival of our ‘Earth and human race’ created by the Creator. No Prophetic religion can have spirituality as Prophets themselves were humans like you and me.
November 1st, 2007 at 6:01 am
A Happy Diwali to you all.
Let us remind us, Diwali is not just about feasting, lights, fireworks and merrymaking or end of harvesting. It’s origins were to celebrate Lord Raam’s return to Ayodhya after defeating demonic Rawana of Sri Lanka and rescuing Seeta from him. So let us invoke the spirit of it and try to save lives of our women folks wherever they may be from their ordeals and misfortunes in this life.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Having just arrived back in the country, obviously one of the first things to do is to take a look through Hindu Voice, a wonderful one-stopresource for bringing me up to date with what’s being going on in the world - many thanks once again to the Hindu Voice team for that.
I have been interested in the debate over the events in the US Senate. First of all, I’d like to express my thanks and congratulations to Senator Harry Reid for arranging this historic moment. In doing so, not only has he shown his recognition and appreciation for the contribution of Hindus to modern-day America, but he has shown great personal and political courage in doing what he felt right, despite the potential consequences.
The next thing I’d like to say is that it is a positive reflection on the USA that not only did Senator Reid feel the appropriateness of this move, but it has been supported and applauded by a wide cross section of US politicians, media and public. In this context, it should be noted that the protests have mostly been seen not only by Hindus but also by the general American mainstream as unfortunate and even fairly ridiculous.
Coming to the protest itself, I wonder if anyone knows whether the Senator(s) who invited the protestors to the session (as I understand it, just like visits to UK Parliamentary sessions, public visitors to Senate sessions have to be invited by a Senator) has/have been questioned about what happened?
It should be pointed out that religious fanaticism is an unfortunate aspect of life, and has been throughout history. Freedom of belief and expression, which has the huge bonus of promoting constructive interfaith dialogue, must of necessity bring with it the destructive tendencies of those who are unable to accept that whilst truth is one, it may be perceived, experienced and described in many different ways by different people.
It is always saddening and disappointing to see this kind of thing happen, but I honestly believe that it ultimately means far more to focus on the positives, of which there are many to come out of this whole event. The modern-day United States is the result of those who fled from persecution to find new opportunity without regard for sociocultural background. Senator Reid has offered a quite beautiful celebration of that fundamental sentiment of equality that the USA is based upon. The mainstream American response to both the puja service itself and the protests has been overwhelmingly positive. From the other side, the fact that Mr Zed was able to give a very Hindu prayer in English without evoking the snorts of arrogant derision from Hindu ‘purists’ that so often accompany such moves is heartening.
In fact, even the above debate between ‘european’ and numerous of my Hindu brothers and sisters is welcome. With such knowledgeable people being questionned by ‘european’ and providing detailed and informative responses to him in this public forum, we are all provided with a wonderful opportunity to learn from their knowledge. For this opportunity, I thank not only all those learned Hindus, but ‘european’ also for stimulating such discussion.
As always, I hope I neither speak out of turn nor cause offence to any.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:57 am
Satya,
I agree America is a tolerant country and the reason being that it is an immigrant’s country. Its constitution is democratic and fair to all. Hindus in America in just last 40 years have done well and given benefits of their talents to this ‘democratic’ country. The credit of introduction of Hindu prayers in the US Senate must be without doubt given to Sen. Reid and we should all thank him. The act of Hindu prayers cannot happen in say British Parliament or most of the European countries. In Britain Church of England brand of Christianity is an established Religion and part of the British Government. No act passed by the Parliament can be enacted by Government agents without the signature and approval of the Queen to the Act as Head of the Church of England and defender of its Christian faith.
The truth on the ground in India is that Church of England, its branches Evangelical Movement in America and European Churches are converting the poor of India to their faith and have plans to ultimately kill Hindu religion in India and colonize it from within. Recently when I told an Anglican priest in Mumbai that a porter in street has achieved freedom from the British rule but he hasn’t, he showed anger and refused to believe. These Anglicized people, what I call agents of the Brits, haven’t realized they are still working for the British Government as their ancestors did and helping the conversion of India to Christianity. And when I told him that indirectly he is on the payroll of the British Government for acting as its ‘agent’, it got too hot under the collar for him. The question came to my mind, have I got right to call him a traitor?
Evangelical movement in India is causing havoc in remote villages by attempting conversion of dalits and the poor en-mass by providing them with food and clean water, all financed by fanatical Evangelists of Billy Graham whose supporters include Bush family, Jimmy Carter and Clintons. Their agendas are not just religious but political and economic. Are Hindu Americans aware of it? Today educated Hindus in Kerala, Meghalay, Manipur, Mizoram and Nagalnad cannot get Government jobs as the administration of these States are controlled by Anglisized Indians.
All I am doing is to wake up people like ‘european’ in India and believe me I am not ‘Hindu purist’.
November 30th, 2007 at 8:35 am
Recent events show how right I was. Few days ago deities inside a Hindu temple in Kerala were vandalizes by a Christian fanatic. Few weeks ago statue of Raam in a temple in London, UK was vandalized by again an English Christian. One English lady teacher in Sudan has been punished to 40 lashes for allowing her students (all under 10 years) to name a teddy toy of the class by prophets name Muhammad.
It shows how intollerent these Abrahamic religions are. Religions based on favours and or punishments must have their Gods living up in the sky so that an innocent human can be punished by another human in His name.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
With respect, two quick points:
1. Whilst the request for opening session with Hindu prayers was rejected (understandably so, since Britain is officially a CoE country, not a secular one), the House of Commons has, however, witnessed celebrations of, for example, Diwali. Personally, I think this speaks volumes for the success of Britain in combining both its own religion and its multiculturalism; indeed, I would go so far as to hold Britain up as a model that India could do well to learn from (note: learn from, not blindly emulate!) Clearly, there is absolutely no reason that similarly, India could not equally be a Hindu nation and yet show complete respect and acceptance of all religions - if anything, surely Hinduism more than any other faith lends itself perfectly to such a system.
2. The examples quoted above do not prove anything about the stated religions’ tolerance or lack thereof. I could equally point to examples of Hindu ‘intolerance’. This is as meaningless as the usual cry of the secularists, atheists and humanists that “religion causes war”. Religion does not cause war, nor does religion cause the acts mentioned. All this is done by ignorant people who use religion as a convenient excuse; if these Abrahamic religions that you so bemoan did not exist, people would simply find some other excuse for their behaviour. Is football hooliganism the fault of Christianity? Are cricketing riots in Pakistan the fault of Islam? Were the Delhi riots of 1984 the fault of either Hinduism or Sikhism?
Note all this is not to excuse the religions - religions must accept their responsibilities. Islamic and Christian Scripture and history is full of things that are somewhat unfortunate; likewise, certain Hindu Scriptures as well as certain elements of Hindu history exist that one may, by today’s standards, be somewhat less than entirely proud of. It becomes the duty of the adherents of those religions to act responsibly and realise that the relationship between religion and socio-cultural standards and values is not one way. Whilst religion informs our ethics, social values and morals equally shape our understanding of religion. Religion is, after all, created by man. As has been questioned in the past, was man really made in God’s image, or was it actually the other way around?
November 30th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Satya
I must disagree. I’ve heard your arguments from others for quite a long time. My retort:
“I decide to be a Nazi. All the nazis I know are good people and live life to achieve self reliance and a return to a time when my nation followed my beliefs. Now some one gets up and points out that the Nazis of the past were monsters. Obviously this is not the case, at best an exageration of historical propaganda. My fellow nazi teachers say that it is not an ideology, not nazism, that created the holocaust but the individuals who misinterpreted what volkish nazism is. We say that nazism is tolerant, we did segregate the jews for their own protection, it was a few bad apples (who exist in all religions) that set up the gas chambers. We did launch wars for political and economic gain, but then everybody does that. We did do human research and that was commonly done at that time. We did support the destruction of indigenous cultures but that was a long time ago and now we don’t. In fact you should join us.”
We need to see this more objectively. No machine is perfect - neither a perfectly good machine nor one perfectly evil. Evil and good ideologies will have good and evil adherents. This is a useless tautology.
If a group oppresses people through out the maority of its history, that group identity and ideology must be rejected. Thus in the retrospect of history we must reject the name and ideology of christianity (including nazis), islam, communism, aztecs, colonialism, slavery…
I don’t think you and I are entirely off the mark, but we must at some point come down and say that certain ideologies have no intention of upliftment of the human condition, only the desire to destroy what good others have created. They are ready to destroy other societies, declare their eminence, then let the humans that followed them into a dark age (medeival europe, modern africa, the middle east for the last 1000 years).
We must as objective persons learning from history reject the christo-islamic group monothink ideology. The founders of the American constitution did 250 years ago. We can certainly have the contemporary courage to do the same.
hariaum
December 7th, 2007 at 7:00 am
Satya,
Your arguments are too childish and naive for me, ‘celebration of Diwali in House of Commos speaks Volumes etc’.
C of E is an estabished Church and is part and parcel of Brit. Gov. and does not recognise Hinduism as ‘religion’. Don’t you know?
C of E on many occasions has used UK tax payers money to, disguised as Overseas Development, for playing its dirty tricks in India. Tricks involved converting the poor, playing active political role, anti Hindu propaganda, and promoting its religion on National radio stations and degrading Indian personalities. Should any ’secular’ Nation allow this?
Your argument about and making case for C of E to saying Christian prayers in Indian Parliament is very cunning and based on because British House Commons allowed celebration of Diwali. I am sure , it must be, as usual so that Indian business people and MPs will buy gallons of drinks for the jolyfication of the English MPs. Tell your friends in C of E that Diwali originally started for celebrating Shri Raam’s return to Ayodhya after defeating Rawana of Sri Lanka and rescuing Seeta, and see what happens. If they still continued celebrating Diwali in the Commons it would mean C of E has accepted lineage of incarnations of Lord Vishnu, which the Queen would not allow. If Hindu India wouldn’t have allowed, not just freedom of Religion but freedom of beliefs it wouldn’t have had to put up with these mediocre Abrahamic religions who do not even have definition of God. Their God is in the sky as Richard Dawkins put it. Are you sure you are not working for C of E who is making you to do its dirty work?
Your second para is worse, accusing Hinduism of intollerence. I recommend you read Indian history again, not the one concocted by the Moguls and Brits. India was the most tollerent educated country in the world and still is. Perhaps that is why it was ruled by foreigners. It was Guru Govind Singh who asked Hindus to defend their religion by the sword. If you want to know how many Hindus were killed by these foreign religions in India you should read Serge Strakovic’s research. He has found killings of Jews in its history (six millions in 2nd war) compared with killlings of Hindus as peanuts. Can you name one incident when Hindus have killed people of other faiths in the name of its God? Even a learned Chinese Ambasador to US recently has said, “India ruled China for two thousand years without sendind a single soldier”. Abrahamic religions have caused wars and still will. How dare you to teach tollerence to Hindus of today.
December 10th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
With respect, there are many things I could say in response to the above comments, but I feel this would accomplish nothing - clearly we are not going to agree on this point. However, regardless of this, there is here a useful discussion to be had. To this end, let us accept for a moment that what you say is true - that ‘Abrahamic religions’ are indeed mediocre, intolerant, oppressive, destructive and evil, and deserve to be rejected (allegedly, in following with the framers of the US Constitution - I’m not convinced!) This then has certain necessary implications:
1. Surely, rejection and denunciation of other religions, particularly such mainstream faiths as Christianity, Islam and Judaism, is surely the very definition of intolerance and racism. Furthermore, is this not the exact attitude that makes us denounce those religions to begin with? In which case, where exactly is the difference between us and them? We are as Hindus very quick to boats of our forefathers’ ‘tolerance’ (what a horrible word!) - would those forefathers have spoken or behaved the way we do today?
2. If we are to reject Christianity as a valid belief system, does this not imply that it is our duty to strive against it, as by the nature of ahimsa, whilst doing violence is himsa, allowing violence to continue is also himsa - by allowing this evil, destructive force of Christianity to survive, we are therefore ourselves guilty of committing himsa. Given that Britain is a Christian state, this clearly makes us ‘tolerant’ Hindus enemies of the state.
There is another issue to look at here also. Even if we do accept that Christianity is so inherently evil, the fact remains that it is here to stay - more to the point, we as British Hindus are willing and voluntary guests of these Christians. That being the case, somehow we must find a way to peacefully co-exist. This surely requires that we look to solutions, not problems - unless of course you are trying to suggest that, as per the above, Hindus must begin a war against all Christians, Muslims and Jews? Rather than finger pointing, name calling and venting spleens, I humbly submit that a far more useful attitude would be to look for a realistic and workable strategy to move forward from here.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
That is a good set of discussion points. Satya.
Let us consider what tolerance means. Do we tolerate Nazism? At what point do you say your life is more valuable than the life of your attacker? At what point does an ideology become something we do not accept? Does tolerance mean that if someone wants to take the sari of Draupadi we should sit and hold our hands? Does tolerance mean that if someone tries to destroy your temples and remove the Gita from contemporary debate, we should help them in their sincere missions?
Then let us consider what is evil. Is evil us against them? Is evil egoism? Does evil exist? Can you co-exist with evil? Is rape evil? Is murder evil? Is idolatry evil?
As to the permanence of religions, I think a careful look at history suggests that religions can be destroyed. Christians and muslims have been very successfully doing this for millenia. Where are the worshippers of Zeus, Isis, Azura, Thor, the great spirit in the sky?
As to war against a religion, I think the construct is wrong. I call for a conscious effort for teaching Brahman. That our role in history is to guide the world out of this dark age of radical ethnocentrism where a person is known by the name of their god or the book they worship. I point to a need that as we humans are given the power to destroy millions of people by a few small nuclear bombs, we need to reject ideologies of the past that declare monothinking as the one and true way to salvation. Because if we don’t, then some monothinker will nuke Delhi, and will India say let us tolerate those that nuked us as retaliation would be unHindu? Then Mumbai is nuked. Will we tolerate still?
It is himsic not to look for the source of hatred and point to it. It is cowardice to say we should not act. But I do agree that it is cowardice and dishonest to not seriously think it through and find ways to bring our brothers and sisters with us out of this darkness - it would be such monothinking evil minded silliness that would say bomb the vatican.
We are guests? I find that offensive. I am American. I am no guest in this country. England may be christian, but read the federalist papers and you will find rejection of christianity subtly present throughout. From the change in the meaning of sovereignty (from in the name of Jesus to WE THE PEOPLE) to the very acceptance of hinduism and other faiths as legitimate in the founder’s writings, to The Age of Reason which concludes the bible is false…America is not christian. The founders were deists: there is a supreme being and all names are man made constructs on this supreme reality - how much closer can you get to hindu without a name?
Perhaps we can wait and see. After the nukes fall on India, all the Gitas are burned, all temples defaced, and all hindus converted, then we can wait and see if Krishna will come to our aid. If He does, then we were right, if not then we were wrong. Or perhaps, instead of wondering if one faith is greater than another, we can teach that you are allowed to worship your ishtadevata and Brahman will accept it in the spirit that that worship is given. And so spending billions of dollars to destroy a culture economically or politically is not the goal of a true religion (ergo a religion that does these things is not a true religion).
Of course we could hide our eyes in the dirt and just hope all ideologies are the same and encourage our children to adopt whatever belief system gets them the most personal pleasure.
In sum, satyagraha must be engaged, but foolish monothinking is not a part of satyagraha.
hariaum
December 14th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Satya,
I am glad some one is arguing more positively. And let us keep it as argument.
From your first para only somewhat derogative word I have used is ‘mediocre’. Learned people like Openhiemer, Gore Vidal, Richard Dawkins have thought the same way. Gore Vidal (born Christian) has called the Abrahamic religions ‘ridiculous’. Words like ‘evil’ are very emotive. I have also not suggested Abrahamic religions should be rejected or destroyed. I only want Hindus of all shades to understand and appreciate the differences between other religions and ours and always be prepared to explain the religion to others more correctly, intellectually and live accordingly. In my own time I have managed to convince some British intellectuals of logicality in Hindu religion. And who is showing intolerance and aggressiveness towards other religions? Not Hindus. You should follow Church’s activities in dalit converts and other communities in India, without telling them their poverty is due to the fact that industrialisation was deliberately denied during the British Raj . Do you know they are being organised to attack local money lenders (because they are told Jesus did it), Brahmins and castes other than theirs? I am convinced that once a ‘religion’ becomes an organised organisation it loses spirituality and believers their freedom. I find Church congregation and conduct more like military parade and sermons indoctrinations as interpreted by the Minister. By the way C of E prayers were invented only some 150 years ago and got politicised because they were approved by the Parliament.
Your second para is again very off the mark and full of accusations. Hindus are not trying to destroy Christianity by any aggressive methods or by show of himsa. Don’t you know by the nature of Hindu scriptures one cannot become a terrorist or jihadi and certainly cannot enter heaven by killing other human being? Indians (majority Hindus) were on doubt invited by the British but I would still insist it was for their cheap labour. I find your selection of words and language very Abrahamic. The C of E being an established religion is a political organisation and Hindus are constantly subjected to its political and derogatory propaganda on radio and television. You are right about Hindus becoming enemy of the State if they complain, that is blackmail.
The third para, it seems, is based on your assumption (obsession, brainwashing) that Hindus are here to destroy Christianity. Of course Christianity is here to stay. Will the Churches accept Hinduism is in India to stay? Let me tell you, with their aggressive conversion program it doesn’t. I would respect Jews more than Christians and Muslims because they have never tried to convert people of other faiths and are appreciative that India is the only country in the world that never persecuted them since their arrival in India some 1200 years ago.