Shambo: temple cow on death row
Earlier this month the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs issued a notification of slaughter of a bull residing in the Skanda Vale Temple complex called Shambo, due to having been tested positive for bovine tuberculosis. However, the bull had not shown symptoms of TB and as yet, was in a healthy condition. Temple authorities are defiant, and claim that they will defend the bull “with their life if necessary”.
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May 31st, 2007 at 4:29 am
bull is sacred….other animals & human beings are no less important….isolate the bull….extend best of medical treatment to the bull….within a time frame recommended by the medical experts expect healing….if the bull’s health deteriotes put it to sleep.
i guess it is not as simple as i suggest…it is a potential material for religious philosophical debate / cash of civilisations or culture….this time it is the bull that has provided such material.
in india bulls such as this are not discussed…how nice it is entertained i the uk!! no culture is supreme….every effort to impose one needs to be thwarted.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:58 am
The general norm of any civilized society is to allow and help foster individual preferences when it doesn’t harm the society at large. Not hurting the Hindu sentiments is only to be expected in any civilized society, especially when the cost to the society at large is nil. TB is a treatable disease and the policy of killing animals for such an easily treatable disease is a barbaric practice. Let the animal be treated and cured.
May 31st, 2007 at 8:51 am
hang on a minute……every day thousands of animals get diseases and die naturally …why do we as humans come in to kill!!!!! let nature take its cause , let Shambo die naturallly , do not kill- even bible says that.
This is a temple Bull, free from food chain, free from slaughter, no human must kill this animal ….yes we will make any excuse to kill…food , disease, not liking the animal , dangerous animal …reality is we like to kill…its simple ….humans do evil, sin (paap) and we continue to do this until we learn and become spiritual creatures.
Lions eat deers , that is the natural world so let it be!!!!! let this bull die naturally , don’t authorities even lay a finger on our Nandi devi……
Hey Shiva (shambo) let your consort live ….let Nandi live …..Hey bholenath let our bulls and cows be free form the food cahin.
jai shiv shankar ki jai
May 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pm
If our Hindu Gods are truly powerful that this is the time to save the Hindus humiliation by non Hindus. I still remembered, few years ago when Lord Ganesha was drinking found to drink milk, not only in India, but the world over. Finally thousands who did not believe in Hinduism came back to the fold due to one such event. Hindu Gods are not sleeping, when the time for test comes they will rise to the Hindu needs. In this case lets all pary and ask God to cure its diseases completely and let the Bull be sent for a medical test. If the disease still exists in the Bull, than we must fall back to0 our basic principles in Hinduism, the Law of Karma. If the Bull though being cared by the temples does not mean its beyond God’s Law. That fact that it was born a Bull and not a Human is itself is bad karma. May be it has to fulfill its karma in this life of its past karmas.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:43 pm
I agree, this is our Shambo he doesnt belong to any welsh authority and never will! LET HIM LIVE! who are we to decide who lives and who dies thats is the job of the Lord
May 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Let him live, imagine if they were muslims and such an outrage to take something of theirs, there be violence!
poor animal, leave him in peace.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Shambo has no voice in any of the decesions that human beings are making. Has anybody asked Shambo what would he like to do with his life? Why weren’t children in a primary school in Luton killed when they showed symptoms of TB.?
June 2nd, 2007 at 6:53 am
I have a feeling they think that Hindus are a bunch of pushovers who will bend over and let everyone violate them.
we should stand against this. they wouldn’t dare even voice an opinion against this issue if muslims were involved.
so let shambo live and get treated.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:41 pm
If this bull is diseased, then it should be put down. Its the logical thing to do.
The comments by everyone here are commendable, and very sincere in their feelings for the Hindu faith.
I have been involved in a lengthy debate in this matter with the Hindu Council too.
Take a deep breath, and think for a minute - In India, a Hindu land (Hinduism embraces the preachings & pholosophies of Sikhism and Buddhism, so when I use the word Hindus, this includes peoples of these great faiths too), Muslims slaughter hundreds of cows every day for consumption. This horrifyng and torturous act of barberous slaughter (known as halal) is carried out openly in the side streets of Muslim areas in broad daylight all over India.
You may be unaware that there are people who own cows in India for supplies their daily milk, and when she is too old, or becomes ill, the cow is often abondoned and turned lose in the streets to fend for herself as she is now a burden to its owners. Yes, this is done by Hindus in India.
No one here seems to have thought about that, and many Indians living in the UK are aware this too, then surely that is where people should be looking - or are they too scared of protesting against Muslims for fear of being beaten up by them?
We live in the UK. If the law of the land feels it correct to take any such action, is explained, and valid reasons given to justify putting this animal down, then so be it.
Hindu’s, ie. human beings, are being forcefully converted to Islam in Pakistan & Bangladesh. If they resist, they are killed! And all this for a diseased bull? What about these human beings?
Food for thought perhaps, and readdressing priorities?
June 4th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Pravin the symbol of the bull is all persecution against hindu’s.
Pravin wake up mate……. the bull is not just a bull but all the atrocities that have been committed in the past and present we keep quite about , just like this bull.
The bull is a sacred symbol, they must not touch this symbol …..if we can stop this, we are saying we hindus have now woken from our sleep and don’t mess.
people like you need to wake up and fight not wonder about what could have been done in the past.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Ravi,
We obviously have a difference of opinion here. You say: Quote “we are saying we hindus have now woken from our sleep and don’t mess” Unquote. I will reserve judgement, bit my tongue, and refrain from replying to this comment.
Strong and fighting words from you, and I want to know you mate - so now back up what you say - stand up and be counted. Have a look at this link first though:
http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/article/anti-hindu-laws/temples-bill/protests/why-temple-take-over-act-only-for-hindus.html
You say: “people like you need to wake up and fight not wonder about what could have been done in the past”
A strong, gutsy, highly educated, highly motivated and a professional group of us is way ahead of you mate, and we need more strong minded people to join us.
So Ravi my friend, here is your invite. How about it.
We are not religious people - we are Hindus, and the term Hindu here is used by me to also include and embrace the preachings & philosophies of Sikhism & Buddhism.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Animal bull was historically sacred to most of the religions of the world. Even Jews and Christians of Rome worshipped bull. Only difference is that Hindus worshipped it not as a God but as sacred animal because cow’s milk has been described as ‘poorna anna’, meaning whole meal in Hindu scriptures. Emage of bull has also appeared on Harrappan seals, the most ancient seals on Earth.
But if Shambo has developed a contageous desease which is ultimately likely kill him, it would be wrong to make him suffer even more. Medical researches have shown some of the deseases we face today did not even exist in ancient times. Like every living thing Shambo has a soul within in its cycle of reincarnation but remember he is not God, supreme soul. I think if medical advice is overwhelming and within the Laws of the country Hindus should reconcile and let him go. But as a Hindu I would insist that he should be cremated and let us not make a bigotted show of our beliefs. Vedic teaching do not recommend worship of dead bodies, so please do not buy photos of him afterwords and worship the way we worship incarnations of Brahma; Shiva, Raam and Krishna.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Kumar, you speak with a depth of feeling which is touching however, put the warmth of your heatfelt feeling aside for a moment when you talk about cremation etc., and think in the coldest terms possible.
Remember that not all Indians are vegetarians. (Indians are: Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Christian Indians & Jewish Indians - PERIOD!). A lot of us Hindus do eat eat meat too …
The cold thought is: All this debate about one bull in the UK in a Temple, and I fully understand the sentiments of feelings shown here - I am a Hindu too but we live in a Christian land by choice where beef is staple food.
Disassociate yourselves here with this one solitary issue of one bull, and project your thoughts outside of the UK, and into Hindu India - take it from me, nobody cares there. That is the labyrinth of our Hindu faith where you and I both have roots via our ancestors.
If this hoo-haa over one cow was made in India, it would be ignored by the masses. You will find dead cows which have been run over by trucks lying on the motorways for days, decaying, and not even the local council cares to remove the corpse! Vultures, dogs and foxes will ultimately pick it clean.
I have personally witnessed such an incident enroute Amdawad/Mumbai where the injured animal was alive lying in the searing heat of the Indian sun and people, Hindus, calmly walking past waiting for ’someone else’ to do something about it.
I stopped, pondered tearfully what to do, and the only immdeiate solution I could find to put this animal out of pain and misery as speedily as possible was to find a local butcher. The locals just weren’t interested because its a frequent occurance … I will leave the rest to your imagination … I did this out of mercy. I did accertain from the locals that the farmer who owned this cow as aware of its injury and couldnt be bothered because of cost.
A lot of you will find this distasteful. All I say here is that this issue has been blown out of all proportions by us Hindus living in the UK, and if these same people writing here were living in India, that these same people would have done absolutely nothing in a similar situation there.
Do read what Jay Lakhani of the Hindu Council has to say on this subject.
I agree with you by the way about your suggestion to cremate.
June 5th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
you should all read this.
http://www.skandavale.org/Downloads/Question%20and%20answers%20shambo.pdf
There is more on www.warmwell.com
As St. Francis said:
If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.
He was not a Hindu but understood the law of god.
Wake up my friends! Life is sacred and killing is never a solution!
June 5th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
One doesn’t have to follow St. Francis who used his common sense when he said it. Hindus know how our sages and rishis had deliberately attached animals and birds as consorts to our deities for their survival e.g., Vishnu with bird Garuda, Shankar with Nandi, Ganesh with mouce, Krishna with cow, Indra with elephant, Luxmi with tiger, Saraswati with peacock, etc, etc.
I think it is time Hindus old and especially young understand, where we stand in the world today when it comes to religions. I sincerely hope Shilpa reads this as well.
The world today is divided into two groups of religions, one belonging to Vedic traditions and ethos, and the other to prophetic religions. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism belong to first group and Judaism, Christianity and Islam belong to the second group.
The religious beliefs and traditions for Hindus and others have evolved from The Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagawat Geeta. And yet the scriptures are not dogmas, commandments or doctrines written in dictatorial fashion. Which makes ‘freedom’, for all the living things on this earth, as their ethos? The religious beliefs and traditions for Judaism, Christianity and Islam come from their prophet’s commandments, doctrines, and dogmas which have stifled the fundamental right of freedom so necessary for the progression of human race.
The prophets have always claimed exclusive relationship with the creator without knowing his name or definition. For the Jews it always was the Messiah; for the Christians it was the Holy Ghost or father in heaven without knowing where it is; and for Islam it was Alla in paradise without knowing where paradise is. Hindus from the Vedas knew the Creator was called Brahama with his definition given as being Nirvikalpa (for ever), Nirakaar (without shape or form), all pervading including in our senses, and yet he is equal to all, has no limitation of Nirvana, and he is in the form of truth, soul and happiness.
What the prophetic religions haven’t realised that their religions have also evolved from Hindu religion and in ancient times people in the Middle East and Europe were Hindus and practiced various aspects of Hindu scriptures. Hindu religion being the most ancient already well established in India, the stories from the scriptures 4500 BC were constantly on the move towards Middle East and Europe. E, g, Jewish story of expectancy of God Messiah in human form came from Bhagawat Geeta; The story of Jesus birth was identical to Hindu God Krishna, like Jesus, Krishna was also targeted by his enemies and was taken across the flooded river in a basket and when the water touched his feet the river stopped flowing to let him through; in Islam the prophet Muhammad orphaned from his birth rebelled against his family’s Hindu religion, decided to form his own religion with exactly opposite beliefs and principles. His own uncle who had written a poem in Arabic glorifying Lord Shiva was hated by young Muhammad who ultimately had him killed.
There is also evidence of Indian sages establishing five centres for learning Hindu scriptures, starting from; Varanasi, Kashmir, Medina, Baghdad and Rome. This is why one finds Sanskrit words in the languages of European and Middle Eastern countries. With sophistication of Sanskrit language these countries also acquired knowledge about astronomy, mathematics, value of Zero and decimal system, algebra, herbal medicine, yoga etc, when their own religions had told them Earth was a flat disk. So Hindus should have nothing to fear from these prophetic religions or even to learn from their scriptures.
Today in the face of organised prophetic religions Hindus can only survive by strongly remaining united with understanding that Indian religions have the basis of Vedic ethos and traditions to make lives peaceful, harmonious and progressive as intended by our creator Brahama. Hence there is no need to Westernise ourselves in order to modernise.
June 6th, 2007 at 8:43 am
pravin yes i agree……
the bull is a symbol of hindu…. don’t let western hands pollute hindu minds and thoughts.
it is now a principle for all of us.
ravi
June 6th, 2007 at 8:53 am
pravin did you get a butcher to kill the cow?
yes cows die everyday in india (runover and diseases) but that is law of nature we do not interfer with that…..man cannot interfere with natural world….
If cow is dying in bad, let that cow die ……..lions tear apart a gazelle blood everywhere and chase it then pounce on it …who are we to stop this brutality ..it is nature…..
some things are meant to be, cows are free to roam , are born then die all NATURALLY ……they are free from food chain , or slaughter…..the cow that dies naturally even in pain…this is hundred times better then seeing her sisters in the slaughter house all screaming from the butchers knife…..cows in India hopefully never see the butchers knife ,,,but die a natural way as nature intended.
yes cows are everywhere in India and common folk see them as pests …….but here cows are meat…they are bred for one thing only and that is for the bellies of british public.
ravi
June 7th, 2007 at 12:49 am
I’d like to know if any of you have actually been to Skanda Vale. Or just reading the articles written about Shambo and been watching the news?
I feel we should all unite as a community and help the Swamis at Skanda Vale in whatever way we can.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Thank you Anchal.
Its nice to talk and write about Dharma, but the Swamis, Brothers and Sisters at Skanda Vale practice what they preach. It would have been very easy to just follow the Government’s ridicules policy and let them kill Shambo. You can not compromise the law of god. Everybody here should take this opportunity to help to establish Dharma. You can help by writing to the new minister jane.davidson@wales.gov.uk and voice your concern, lobby your MP to join Andrew Dismore’s “Early day motion” and tell all your friends to do so. I hope you have all signed the petition on www.wevaluelife.org
June 7th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Everyday several animals, birds etc are being slaughtered for human consumption. Most of them are eaten by the so called voices of Hindu people without a second thought. Now they raise hue and cry on Hindu animal.
I am a devout Hindu and a strict vegetarian. No Hindu will eat animals and birds.
Can all of you (calling yourself a Hindu out of pure hypocrosy)adhere to vegetarianism? Do that and then talk about such subjects. Otherwise you are unfit to dweel on the subject.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Your opinion Ravindran - I hope nobody rises to this bait! Like many of us, I am not a vegetarian, but I am still a dovout Hindu.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Ravindran,
I agree that several animals and birds are slaughtered for human consumption, but to suggest that most of them are eaten by voice of Hindu people goes beyond gross exageration. Perhaps you will think differently when you are in the right frame of mind.
Issue here is not whether we should eat meet at all, we are talking about bull Shambo because we have built temple around him. It is nice to be pure vegeteranian, which is very difficult for many. And one doesn’t become Hindu by just being vegeteranian. Geeta only encouragaes every one to be vegeteranian, it does not dictate. And there is no punishment if you do. The bull is not symbol of Hinduism, it is a digression. It is not even one percent of what Hinduism is all about. We are talking about Shambo who is suffering from TB and the British Law as it stands. No Hindu scripture says animals, birds and fish are sacred. It is ancient Rishis and Sages of Hindu India deliberately attached them to Hindu deities, whom we worship, for the survival of the God created species. Word ‘Goverdhan’ comes to my mind, it is gau-vardhan in Sanskrit meaning lifting the importance and status of cows for their survival and it was Krishna who did it on mountain Goverdhan where cows were taken for slaughtering. Otherwise our children would have starved without cow’s milk. That is why Krishna was always referred as Goverdhan. It is about time Hindus understand and follow their religion with right perspective and correctly.
Kumar.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
R ravindran. I am saying you are not a Hindu because you cannot even raise your hand to defend dharma. You and your kind are not Hindus. We meat eating hindus are.
June 7th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
“Can all of you (calling yourself a Hindu out of pure hypocrosy)adhere to vegetarianism? Do that and then talk about such subjects. Otherwise you are unfit to dweel on the subject. ”
I think by your thinking you are totally unfit in the mind.Even though I’m a meateater but I still will try my best to save Shambo but I wouldn’t save a veggie brain like you..
June 8th, 2007 at 9:14 am
veggies and meat eaters all unite pls……we are hindus ….let them not touch out shambo…..it is the hindu principle ….
even meat eater brothers and sisters will not eat a bull!!!!!!!!
come on unite and syop this abhorrent act of sheer violence inthe name of disease control…its excuse to show all animals are at the mercy of humans to the knife they go whenver they want.
jai shambo nanadi ki jai
June 8th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Ananda,
All the effort the Swamis, Brothers and Sisters put in at Skanda Vale with all sincerity and soulful dedication is truly commendable. My utmost respect goes to them. I absolutely agree with you the law of god should not be compromised. It is our duty and privilege to serve in the cause of Dharma.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Anchal/Ananda,
Law of God? These are moral guidelines in our scriptures, so to describe these as “laws of God” I think is a mis-guided pattern of thought. Such mis-interpretations of any holy scriptures can lead to dangerous consequences if ‘fantasized’.
Laws are made by the Governments of the land, and you comply with those laws if you live in that land … full stop!
Islamic Kuran says there is no other faith (or God) that should exist (or worshiped) on earth except the Muslim God Allah. That is the law of their God Allah as stated in their Kuran. According to you, it law of God, is it not? Whose God?
Why do governemnts of the USA, Europe & India refuse to accept those philosophies and make their own laws?
June 8th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Steady on Ravi ole boy. A lot of us, all Hindus, will support the Govenment vet’s ulitmate decision, which may not spare this bull for very real reasons of health risks as set in the legal guidelines.
Either way, the vets decision will be a rational and a balanced one, well thought through, its recommendations verified by other vets, and will most certainly take into consideration the Hindu sentiment in relation to any decisions in this matter.
I do not believe for a minute that any decision, should it need to be taken, to put this bull down, will be taken rashly or without due thought by the Government.
June 9th, 2007 at 6:52 am
Pravin is right. I would add further and say to Hindus let us not be bigotted about the issue. By taking care of Shambo Hindus have shown how important vegeteranianism is for healthy , clean and eco-friendly life. For Hindus this message goes back thousands of years.
In the past Hindus have done more harm to their religion by hanging on to orthodoxy and many things which are not part of our true religion, e.g. castes, many non Vedic rituals. We have been following many customs and gesture which have become part of our Hindu culture, e.g. saying Namaste by clasping hands together. But there is deeper meaning behind such gesture which has to be understood. By this custom we respect and welcome the person’s soul within in the cycle of reincarnation. Psychlogically it is uplifting for both as humans. It also brings humbleness in us. But we mustn’t fail to call spade a spade. At the same time we mustn’t take advantage of this humbleness and cheat, misguide him or her for our benefit or use it as disguise for profiteering. Worst of all many of us call it as earned wealth and present it in the pooja of Luxmi at Diwali. Now that is hypocrisy. So those who are so concerned about Shambo shouldn’t be selling even cans of dog and cat food which contains meat.
June 9th, 2007 at 10:22 am
The legislation was designed for a working farm, animals used for commerce. Skanda Vale is a sanctuary where all life is sacred, every animal and bird allowed to live its full and natural life, that’s a very big difference. Even if Shambo has bTb, (which is extremely unlikely), it can be treated. This has been confirmed by a international Zoo Vet on BBC Wales last night http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6730000/newsid_6736200/6736251.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm
As for the scaremongering about Shambo being a health hazard to animals and humans – complete and utter nonsense and those who spout it know so. Inflexible, out of date, bureaucracy !
Mahatma Gandhi said: The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated
Come on fellow Hindus let us set an example, get the facts right and stop considering killing a solution. If any of you have a treatable illness, do you want the government to put you down?
June 9th, 2007 at 10:35 am
I am not so sure the government vets are actually that balanced and rational. I would liken Defra to an oil tanker trying to change direction or stop – in takes an awful long time. The government ‘laws’ are out of date on two counts and desperately need to be reviewed.
Firstly, this is the bovine Tb skin test:
Two sections of skin on the animal’s neck are squeezed between thumb and finger. The thickness of these two folds of skin are then measured with calipers and recorded. These two separate areas are then injected and 3 days later the vet comes back, supposedly pinching up exactly the same amount of skin and in exactly the same place and again measures the thickness of these two folds with calipers. If the difference between the two folds has increased more than 4mm then the animal concerned has just tested bTb positive. Extremely scientific, do I need to mention this test was devised decades ago. It is well acknowledged that it not only produces false positives but also false negatives. No surprise then than bTb is actually on the increase.
Farmers themselves are split 50/50 on this issue, those that would like to see accurate diagnostics being implemented and those who wish Shambo to be the victim of the same erratic inaccuracies that their own animals are subject to, (which is hardly a constructive reason).
Secondly, this legislation was designed for a working farm, animals used for commerce. Skanda Vale is a sanctuary where all life is sacred, every animal and bird allowed to live its full and natural life, that’s a very big difference. Even if Shambo has bTb, (which is extremely unlikely), it can be treated.
As for the scaremongering about Shambo being a health hazard to animals and humans – complete and utter nonsense and those who spout it know so. Several vets who do not work for Defra have confirmed, yes the test is inaccurate, yes bTb can be treated and yes the health hazard issue is a load of nonsense. The so called ‘laws’ governing this matter are inflexible, out of date and bureaucratic!
June 9th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
If what Franky says is correct, then will stand corrected on the opinions I have expressed above however, under the circumstances, the Hindu Council United Kingdom (HCUK) have a VET (I believe) on the committee who can be asked to do a full blood test, have the results verified by a reputable independent and a Government recognised VET for a second opinion, and forwarded to the Government VET.
If HCUK VET’s findings prove to be conterary beyond doubt, it is then that we can oppose any proposed slaughter.
That in my opinion is the rational way forward - confirm diagnoses either way and put the matter to rest, again either way thereafter.
June 10th, 2007 at 5:23 am
Franky, you have given the best explanation of the bTB tests and Shambo’s situation. Your last para sums it all. If bTB is curable and Shambo is quarantined for a recommended period of time, then am in favour of giving him every chance to survive. What I do not wish to happen is my Hindu brothers and sisters making God out of him. As Hindu religion is not doctrinal or dogmatic there is a tendancy for matters like this getting out of hand at the expense of true Hinduism. However in one mantra of the Veda, I think it is Rigved, God does asks humans to take good care of his Earth and animal kingdom. That is good enough reason for treating Shambo or any other animal that matters.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Namaste All
It is nice to come back from a relaxing holiday and go straight in to Hindu Voice online, a perfect antidote to a lazy holiday?
Even before I opened my email, I had an inclination that Shambhu, the Holy Bull will dominate this issue of HV, will have a pride of place among many interesting piece.
In the event, I am only partly right, as there are other articles of equal interest and imagination so as not to make Shambhu the sole issue, a dominating issue.
Shambu caught the imagination of not only British Hindus but it became an international personality, an international issue, having a lot of space devoted to this story in countries like Canada, USA, India, Australia and many more.
Although my personal feeling is that this is a “Cock and Bull Story” taken too far by media, to attract readers, HV has to follow the trend, give readers what they want.
So I welcome this piece, as it is not only controversial and raises blood pressure but with so many intelligent, young and knowledhable readers, we are bound to learn a great deal not only on worshipping cows and bulls but on many associated subjects as well.
I feel this is more of a subject of sentiments, feelings and distinguishing right from the wrong rather than killing one animal, however sacred it may be. But in today’s world, no subject can be taken in isolation.
An action always forllows by a reaction. Some times the good of the majority, the nation may have to take the priority over the sentiments and personal feelings.
In India there are only two States, Kerala and West Bengal that allows the slaughter of cows where a million animals are being killed, butchered in most crual, appalling,aweful manner.
I can not help but wonder how any human being can slump so low, being heartless?
Those who had seen the documentary on TV must have felt ashamed that we tolorate such cruelty to any animal, let alone to cows in our so called homeland.
It should be noted that these states are ruled by Communists.
Should this not be our priority, along with conversion and harrassment of our girls on the Uni compound, ethnic cleansing of Hindus in countries like Bangladesh, Malaysia and many more, not forgetting here in our own country?
As usual, it is nice to read a heated but dignified comments, debate from knowledgable and dedicated contributors like Pravin, Kumar and Ravi Sharma, a few among many who devote so much of their time and energy to make HV what it is.
As I was away for few weeks, I am not aware of the latest development in this saga. Perhaps some one will enlighten me, brief me with the latest development.
I do not know how many of you have visited the Skanda Vale Monastery and Temple in Carmarthen, in Wales. It is such a beautiful, uplifting place that one may feel like staying there permanently.
If the Bull story will place this place on our tourist, pilgrimage map and many more people will visit it, then perhaps some good may have come out of this episode.
Jai Shree krishna
Bhupendra
June 16th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Welcome back Bhupendra, for a complete update on Shambo your best source of info is on the Skanda Vale website (http://www.skandavale.org/shambo.htm ) for those with any doubts about Shambo’s condition follow this link http://www.skandavale.org/david_taylor_interview.htm where you will see David Taylor examining Shambo. He is a world renowned vet who established the “International zoo veterinary group”. He confirms that the skin test that rendered Shambo bTb positive is subjective and open to errors, that more accurate diagnostics exist. Also that Shambo is in perfect condition, and if in the unlikely event that he has bTb, yes he can be treated. The health hazard to animals and humans is confirmed to be,”less than zero”
Please remember that above all this life is sacred. The divine is within all life. There is nothing doctrinal or dogmatic about the sanctity of life being foremost in your mind.
Franky
June 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Namaste
Thank you Franky. I will check the website, as I may write a piece for publication.
If U would like to read any of my piece, you can go to
www.indialink-online.com.
Regards and best wishes.
Bhupendra
June 17th, 2007 at 8:34 am
Kumarji, I am finding myself totally incapable to deglutinate your remark: ‘on mountain Goverdhan where cows were taken for slaughtering’ (June 7). It simply refuses to go down my gullet. Could you please disclose the Holy Scripture from which, or on the basis of which, you stated that?
Govardhana is one of our holy mountains. How could slaughter of cows be taking place there, more so, when it is prohibited in the Scriptures? Even the Vedas have prohibited it and have addressed her as ‘Aghnya’: unkillable. To me, therefore, it sounds simply unthinkable, most improbable and unimaginable. It is all the more so, when Gopalas were living right at its base so nearby.
But, you shall definitely have some authentic source on hand on the basis of which you stated that. What is it? Could you please share it with us for our information and knowledge?
There is no doubt the word is Goverdhan – and not Gauverdhan, for the simple reason, that the latter is not possible being grammatically incorrect. The meaning however is the same as stated by you.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Bhupendra writes:
“In India there are only two States, Kerala and West Bengal that allows the slaughter of cows where a million animals are being killed, butchered in most crual, appalling,aweful manner”
I guess he means these two states allow officially approved slaughter.
In that event, readers may be interested to know that cows are also slaughtered in Mumbai and Gujarat too.
The point I try to make is not to question why these cows are slaughtered, but to ask readers to compare their thoughts with regards to this mass slaughter for consumption in Inida going unchallenged in a Hindu land, but then such a huge outcry of anguish at one bull being put down in the UK. Here, I note Franky’s comments above, and I guess that HCUK & The Temple will be involved in getting a more informed blood test to be undertaken?
Kumar - I too look forward to your reply on Ranjeets question above.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:54 am
Dr Ranjeet,
As you know sanskrit words are pronounced differently or said differently in India. Gau, go, gay mean the same. Here we are talking about a story from Krishna era, around 4500 years BC. The story is about Krishna lifting the hill Goverdhan. It certainly cannot mean phisically but say moraly, spiritually, status wise. I read about it long time ago to that effect, but I will certainly dig it out for you from my library one day. Killing animals for food was always a common practice for thousands of years but preservation of especially cows for the vital supply of nutricious milk was Krishna’s message, teaching and taken so since his era.
Those days as there were no special slaughter houses perhaps cows along with other animals were taken to a hill which got renamed ‘Goverdhan’. Go meaning cow and verdhan means grow, grow to a higher level. I am not a sentimental person but to me it does make sense. Even Europe quite rightly reacted for the preservation of cows, it is just that Hindus knew about it as tradition from their scriptures. This is why Krishna is also known by name Goverdhan. Because he lifted the staus and importance of the cows for the preservation of human race.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:54 am
It is noted by Megasthenes in CGM’s empire that “even slaughterhouses were controlled by CGM”
Is there anyone to contest this?
Kumar - You are very close to the truth! I have the answer and in time will disclose it but your work is proceeding well.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Kumarji, you say, “No Hindu scripture says animals, birds and fish are sacred”; (June 7). But the Vedas have addressed cow as: ‘Deveem Gaam’ (Rig.), and ‘Devi Aditih’ (Taitt. Br.). In Gita Shri Bhagwan’s words are, From among the trees, I am Ashwatha’, ‘from among the animals, I am Mrigendra’, from among the birds, I am Garuda’, ‘from among the cows, I am Kaama-dhuk’ … etc. etc. (10:26, 30, 28). Don’t they become sacred by this declaration that they are themselves Him?
We don’t know what exactly you meant by the word ‘sacred’, but in its meanings in the dictionary, we also found: ‘dedicated (esp. to God)’, and, ‘proceeding from God’. Being a bull of the Skand Vale Temple, in our opinion, Shambo comes under the caption ‘dedicated to God’, and hence could be considered sacred?
You also said, “It is ancient Rishis and Sages of Hindu India deliberately attached them to Hindu deities, whom we worship, for the survival of the God created species”. Which were those ancient Rishis and Sages who said so, and where? About the past, only ancient literature is – and can be – a source of knowledge.
We have just read your reply sent this morning.
June 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
KUMARJI, it is not right to say that Sanskrit words are ‘pronounced differently in India’ (June 18), because that would make them ‘Parakrit’ or ‘Laukik’, and they’d no longer remain Sanskrit. The ‘spellings’ and pronounciations are also definite and they cannot be altered. That is why we have never heard of such expressions as ‘Old Sanskrit’ and ‘Modern Sanskrit’.
As pointed out earlier, in our opinion, ‘Gau-vardhen’ would be grammatically wrong. If you contend otherwise, you should tell us how, and on what basis.
Brother, here we are not ‘talking about a STORY from Krishna era’, but are discussing slaughter of a temple bull and, in that context, these remarks of yours: ‘Goverdhan where cows were taken for slaughtering’. You were requested to substantiate the statement by providing the authentic ancient source on which you had based that.
Among Krishna’s names one does find mention of the words ‘Giridhaari’ and ‘Govardhan-dhaari’, but never ‘Goverdhan’. The meanings of the word given in the Shabd-Kosh are: ‘Go Vardhane’, ‘Go-Makhe’, and a holy mountain near Vrindavan. Could you please tell, for our information, where has Govardhen also been mentioned?
June 19th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
i too care for teh cow but we should all take into account that killing of our sacred cows and bulls happens ALL the time, and of course it is undeniably wrong and should be prevented but what is so different about shambo? surely all cows are precious to us, whether or not they live in a temple?
basically i am saying that maybe we are argueing this more for the sake of our own rights as hindus, and standing up and not being pushovers et cetera than because we actually care about the cow. my opinion, think about it, maybe im wrong, maybe im right.
June 20th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
KUMAR Bhai, your letter is totally silent on the point we had raised. It does not tell how – and on what basis – you had stated that cows were taken to be slaughtered to Goverdhan.
June 22nd, 2007 at 6:24 am
Dr. Ranjeet,
As I have said in my comment I will answer your question once I dig out the source from my library at home. I respect your centiments and agree that sanctity of cows has to be protected and maintained for our future generations.
June 23rd, 2007 at 8:17 pm
What about Goats? Their milk is actually superior to Cows milk esp for Caucasian Indians & American Indians
Goats milk given where there is lactose (cows milk) intolerance
June 30th, 2007 at 4:44 am
Deeno,
Yes, goat’s milk is equaliy good for human consumption. Gandhi demonstrated it by drinking it in public. May be the quantity one can get is not enough to feed the millions.
What is interesting is you called Indians, Caucasian Indians. This is yet another myth that British spread in India, myth we are stuck with in our mindset. Indians did not come from mountainous Caucasia in Rusia. Indians came from India and their civilization started from the banks of river Indus (Sindhu) and spread to the rest of India, across Europe and America.
June 30th, 2007 at 11:43 am
So Kumar
A)
Are we Caucasian? (Biologically speaking)
Are Europeans Caucasian?
B)
Goats milk - You did not comment on its superiority to cows milk where there is a lactose intolerance
July 2nd, 2007 at 5:10 am
Deeno,
I don’t think we are even biologically Caucasian. Our skin is not white, our hair are not blond or red or golden colour. If we were why the language there is not Sanskrit based? Instead there are many Sanskrit words in the European languages, the reason being spread of Hindus from Harappa and Mohanjodaro to northern regions after the war of Mahabharat, and not otherway round. It is British concoction and deceit.
Goats milk may be superior, it is the quantity one can get is more important. Also the Cows were associated with Krishna by the seers and sages for their survival, like Garuda with Vishnu, Elephants with Indra, mouce with Ganesh, bird peackock with Sarasavati, tigers with Laxmi, etc, etc.
May I suggest we study and stick to the fundamentals of Hindu religion more rather than stories, British written history, sentiments and semantics. Hindu civilization is the oldest on Earth, there were lot of stories that spread from India to the West and northern hemisphere. But the gist of Hinduism has to be understood by the new generations as guidance for the development of their personalities and unity.
July 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 am
OK - As far as I and many understand these are the Earths Nations
Negroid
Mongoloid
& Caucasian
Which of the above are we? Or is there another that my Bio Class did not list?
GOATS
You say “Goats milk may be superior”. Do you doubt this? A straight answer would help the New Generations. I am not discussing quantity but quality. I have been faced with over 35children of Hindu stock needing to move from Cows milk to Goats milk for improved Bone Mass & reduced food rejection. My family that has spent 200 years raising Milk & Beef cattle it is in our interest to sell Cows milk.
FUNDAMENTALS?
What is more fundamental than our Racial Grouping?
Hindu? We are the Aryawarth!
Veda Shakti!
July 5th, 2007 at 8:01 am
Deno,
I find that it was the Victorian scientists who divided the humna into these groups base on the loolks, color, shape of the sculs, eyes, etc. I am not a scientist and I do not wish to challenge them. But we are stuck with the history. Indians would certainly fall into third category. What I am against is the British concoction of history that Aryans from Caucasian mountains conquered India and that is why we are Cucasians. How many Hindus know that ardent Europeans Christians, even today, still believe that God from heaven ploncked Adam and Eve as the first man and woman on the
island of Sri Lanka to start his human race? Wouldn’t it mean this couple must have walked across India, crossed the Himalayas, reached Caucasian mountain region and started their family and then their descendents, ‘the Aryans’ invaded India? How ridiculas. Sometimes I wonder whether it is worth bothering about Christianity at all.
Again let us not lose track. The subject is ‘Shambo’ the cow. I have given the reasons for Hinuds valuing cows more than any other animal. My point is because goat’s milk is more nutricious than cow’s do we worship it or religiously value it? Your work with Hindu children is certainly admirable and of immence value to Hindu society. People like you should be helped by the government.
If I have used word ‘fundamentals’, it couldn’t have been for encouraging fundamentalists to be fanatics. What I would like Hindu youngsters to do is study the fundaments of Hindu religion from the scriptures like Vedas, Geeta and Upanishads so as to develop stronger personalities that will help them sustain a happier life worthy of better reincarnation.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Interesting debate, although many views are off the mark by miles.
Here we are, as Hindus, calling for saving a life whilst ensuring that any threat to other lives are minimised, as contrasted by the voices from some quarters of Muslim community calling for death and mayhem to those who had the temerity to merely disagree with their views.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:46 am
This is not a public helath matter, its is an economic matter rooted in a failure of the ethical system of the British and Welsh. Not to mention an clash of cultures - care of all beings (bhhots yajna) vs “dominion over all creatures”
The slaughter rule exists because the Welsh eat lots of animals and therefore livestock production is big business. When there is a problem of animal disease farmers cheat and try to pass of sick animals as healthy. It is “impractical” for the authorities to cure every sick animal - translate as “too expensive”. Therefore a general rule was made that all suspect animals shall be killed to protect the public from such unscrupluous farmers and also as a form of creating a fire break to prevent uncontrolled spread of disease.
This is not the case here as the temple is willing to pay all expenses. The animal should be isolated and treated.
The requirements for allowing HIndus to peacefuilly practice their Dharma need to observed.
July 13th, 2007 at 1:01 am
Brothers and Sisters Om Namaha Shivaya
It appears to me the dwellers in Skanda Vale seek your support. They are truly prepared to stand up for the tenets of Prem, Shanti and Ahimsa. They do not wish to seek conflict with the authorities but have had this calamity forced upon them by the authorities (and the divine mother in her divine leela). Make no mistake friends this a conflict on par with any of those in the Mahabharata, a pivotal moment in the history of Hinduism in the west. If the Judge finds against the community on Monday they are prepared to offer passive resistance in the form of conducting puja around the bull when the vets come. It is not the mere physical bull which is the problem but it’s symbolic significance as a temple animal. Are you prepared to stand together with the skanda vale brothers and sisters. I am. I do not encourage mindless martyrdom, but with cool heads and hearts burning with devotion I implore you to journey and physically be there and show peaceful solidarity so that dharma may be upheld.
August 11th, 2007 at 7:08 am
Shambo,
Now that our beloved Shambo is gone, let us look back and reflect on why we loved Shambo, what he meant to us, what part he played in showing the world how and why God given life and its preservation is so important. Hindu religion is the only religion which has answers to all these questions.
This is where we differ from other religions. From our scriptures, the Vedas, Upanishads and Geeta we know who our creator is and how well defined He is not by blind followers but by Himself. We know body cannot work without mind and mind cannot work without ‘praan’ the very existence of God within our hearts and of every living thing on this Earth. This is the basic reason as to why we value life itself most and its preservation. Shambo was one of the billions in whose heart ‘praan’ also lived.
Do other religions have this understanding of God, our creator? No. This is why other religions had to be born out of bloodshed and destruction programmed by their Prophets. Logically other religions cannot be spiritual and cannot be with basic divine connection with the Creator.
But despite such high morals and values about life do we or have we been taking good care of lives of our Hindu brothers and sisters? Last year in Maharashtra alone some 1200 farmers committed suicide, not because of drought or flooding of their farms but their debts, money they owed to scrupulous money lenders, most of them Hindus. Will these lenders present names of those farmers during their usual elaborate ‘chopada poojan’ to Luxmi during coming Diwali? These money lenders must have minds and bodies like rest of us but, I am sure, without God in their hearts. They cannot be progressing towards Nirvana as recommended in Geeta.
I know a businessman in Mumbai who boasted that last year alone he had paid 120 lakhs of rupees in taxes to the Government. His face collapsed in shame when I asked how much he had paid in meaningful bonuses to his employees. I realised later, it was diplomatically wrong thing to ask such question as I was one of the guests invited for his ‘chopada poojan’.
Hindus must practice what their scriptures preach and act in earnest. Krishna in Geeta asks us to develop such ‘intrinsic religiosity’ in our lives, as one of the principal ingredients towards Nirvana. Can you imagine how much religiously and culturally rich our India will be if we did? Believe me Hinduism, if acted correctly, has the capacity to conquer the world and its Prophetic religions.
September 5th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
It is disgusting the way the Welsh Assembly went in to the temple in Skanda Vale, I watched it on Shamnos web cam, and i was distraught, TB Bovine can not be transmitted to humans, I think the chances of this is LESS than 1%, so what was the threat to any one, and he was isolated, They just wanted to prove a point, If this was a Muslim temple they would have thought twice about it, But these Hindus are peacful and they knew they would not put up any resistance,
I am ashamed to be Welsh and since that day I have studied Hinduism and trying my best to become a better person. One day I wish to go to Skanda Vale to Pray, these Monks show all of us how we should treat animals an humans alike.
If any body out there could help me with any information on Hinduism, especially the pronblem I am having with how i should perform Puja at home and the chant and mala beads etc, I would much appreciate it. let me know through this comment box and I will send my e mail Thank you
September 6th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Its very sad what has happened..