Richard Gere arrest warrant for kissing Shilpa Shetty
Pretty Woman actor and Tibetan Buddhist Richard Gere appeared to try and grope actress Shilpa Shetty, whilst both spoke at an HIV/Aids awareness event in New Delhi last month (15th April). Once Gere had mentioned that HIV cannot be passed on through a kiss on the cheek, he thought he’d emphasis this fact by kissing the actress’s hand, which was followed by a hug, and then a kiss on her cheek, then for the grand finale he bent over the surprised Shilpa to slobber her with a huge kiss – Hollywood style. Which Shilpa laughed off by saying, ‘Yeh toda zyaada ho gaya’.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:29 am
Celebrities in the West behave as if they can do whatever they like in public and get away with it.
In India Geer was showing, the Western whites can do anything and get away with it. White Americans made brothels out of Cuba and many other countries, India will have to be careful. Always remember America has no culture of its own except materialism and greed. A vulgarity. Big brother was made jsut for that.
There is no need for India to ‘Westernise’ for progression. It should hold on to its ancient moral codes, values and decency established by its religion and philosophy of life for thousands of years. Geer is a Buddhist convert who also visited Dalai Lama. A fake Buddhist.
People like Geer should be banned from entering India for life and with him those who go there to ‘Westernise’ India.
Shilpa also has to grow up and show some maturity and stop cheapening India. What her mother is doing?
May 31st, 2007 at 8:19 am
I appreciate Gere might have injured Indian sentiments, but I was shocked at the amount of time and energy invested in to this when there are clearly greater issues at hand.
How does a kiss on the cheek occupy more news coverage than the fact that India has the greatest number of people living with HIV than any other nation?
Ironic, but it is exactly this taboo that surrounds sex and lack of education that hamper most efforts to counteract the spread of this virus.
He may have gone over the top but can we please focus on the real issue?
May 31st, 2007 at 8:35 am
I can’t belive I have read one of teh most stupidest artocles I have rtead in a while. I should read Hindu Voice more often.
Kumar needs help, and Hindus who find what Kumar says acceptable will be left behind in the new world. If the view of Kumar is the accepted view within the Hindu community, then we have a worry. But tankfully it is not, a new kind of Hindu thought is taking control, right under zeros like ‘Kumar.
Hinduism and seccularism are cousins, both believe in rational, bith believe in pluralism through rational thiking. That is modern Hinduism, in line with modernity and modern thinking - today’s world of opportunity and fulfillment.
It is wrong to say America and the West has no culture it has, infact more then anything people like ‘Kumar’ promotes, this culture is entwinned in the ethos of freedom to be, freedom of expression, and to be whatever you want to be. This is what modern Hinduism is all about, so for the two there is a bridge, and many Hindus are embracing it quietly, because they cannot be bothered with people like ‘Kumar’ -yesterday’s men!!
Kumar is representative of a small sad but growing minority in the hindu populus who are in competition with the Muslims to see who can show the greater irrationality and be the greatr stupid.
To suggest Big Brother is vulgar is equally not very bright. Big Brother at it’s level is an experiment that show human life as it is, by that I mean, as it is on the streets, to call it vulgar, is for people like Kumar, to call for censorship, again, trying to compete with Islam.
However, there is a question on Shilpa uses teh medium for her own end, but that is lost on Indians like ‘Kumar’ who play the race card.
What narks me so much about people like Kumar, is that people like him, Christians, Muslims seems to be obsessed with the idea that the moral code of life is with religious ideology. It is anything but. All the evidence shows the moral code is with teh rational progressives, and this is shown throughout history. If you belive in the God, then Kumar’s view is as irrational as those verses in Islam and Christianity that argue the earth is flat.
What Richard Gere did was to show through symbolism the issue of aids, it was a very clever thing to do in a country where a large percentage are poor and uneducated. People like Gere, and Gates show more love to the people of India, then Kumar could ever do, as he sits and moralises on an issue he knows nothing about.
Unfortunately, in my experience, Indians, Pakistanis and the rest are not very good at showing unconditional love, not just to their partner in life, but to their own community, and reading Kumar’s article just proves I am right. But their is a dearker side to his article!!!…Racism
To call Richard Gere a fake buddhist, Kumar clearly shows how little he knows about Buddhism.
If there is one characteristic that Kumar shows in his article in abundance, is that he is a racist. His use of the words, ‘whites’ is testiment to his facism!!
No doubt he will attempt to answer me back with this article, and that is his right, because we live in a part of teh world that promotes freedom of thought and expression, a world that Mr gere grew up in, a world he detests!!
I will leave you with this, there is a new world taking shape, and for Hindus, I suggest you do what i do, reconcile the positves of Hinduism and embedy it within modern thinking, Hinduism allows for that…and then take part in the new world, of freedom, democracy, freedom of expression and thought, to be what what God intended you to be.
For Hindus who espouse ‘Kumar’ like thinking, then I suggest you carry on and be left behind with the Muslims, and the Christians.
What a waste!!!!.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:46 am
Personally, I think that this has reflected the stupidity of the indian media. I have seen several bollywood indian movies which portray the women in short skirts (much shorter than i would ever wear) or better yet movies in which there is kissing (Murder). Why is it that these movies receive such little attention in comparison to this mere kiss on the cheek by gere.
I think it is because Shilpa Shetty has found fame in the west following big brother and the media simply have nothing better to pursue that this!
May 31st, 2007 at 12:30 pm
As a Westerner interested in India and Hinduism, here’s my take. I am not shocked, but I think that the ‘Namaste’ tradition (bowing without touching) is more elegant and sophisticated. It just looks better, and I would like it to take over the world. Gere’s hug looked kind of clumsy to me, more than anything else. I also think we should get rid of shaking hands, which is silly and can be unhygienic.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:34 pm
People like Kumar and those who protested do clearly belong to another period in time, medieval!
It seems like people have forgotten what bharat is all about, can’t anyone remember our ancient temples or did everybody stopped reading after the Puranas?
India has suffered from stroke and lots of illnesses ( eg. muslim conservatism) which were caused by our islamic invaders.
Richard Gere kissing shilpa was just a meant to be a joke, nothing more nothing less! I’ve seen lots of indian actresses/actors behaving themselves worse in clubs abroad
I rather would like to have real discussions HIV/aids awareness in India for example!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Kumar GET A LIFE!
This is THE STUPIDEST THING I have seen ! If you dont like it dont see it!
Agree Gere should have been more cognizant of Indian sensitivities but then these self apponited delusional do-gooders Kumars must direct attention to where its needed most the AIDs awareness that Gere was promoting stupid!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I personally agree with some of the comments on this site on the fact that this is one of the most pathetic incidents i have heard. First of all what fustrates me about this mess is that people are making something which is so minor is expressed in a way like some major incident has happened. I understand that different cultures have different perspectives upon moral outlooks however this brings up a hypocritical aspect. First of all if we concentrate on the indian culture alot of people are fond of bollywood and indian movies in the past ten years its films have been doing verywell oversees however from experience of watching Hindi movies alot of them are based around the concept of love and relationships atleast 50 films about love are made each year and suddenly somthing such as shilpa shetty being kissed is all of a sudden too erotic for people to watch. The media are acting like people watched shilpa being kissed and were so disscussted that they had to look away. Okay situations do not happen such as this within india but we need to let our culture evolve. Honestly I cannot believe such nonsense, the media should concentrate on more important aspects such as India is one of the most affected regions whom people suffer from aids and HIV. We should be concentrating on the cause instead of the drama.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:50 pm
All the hoop;a over the richard gere/ shilpa shetty kiss was abdolutely over he top. It was quite simply a case of a few self appointed moral guardians who wanted to hog media attention. If the protesters were seriously concerned about indian womanhood then they had a lot more things to worry about.
Instead they chose this infamous kiss to get some cheap publicity. Shame on the media for reporting it as moral outrage on the part of Indians. Most Indians couldn’t give a damn about this episode and if it wasn’t for the protests no one would even have known about it.
As for the judges who entertained the petitions seeking shilpa and Richard’s propsecution.. well their decsion was deplorable. With a huge backlog of cases and justice in India for sale, they did the cause of the Indian judiciary absolutely no credit at all.
We have a major problem with our own version of the Taleban saffron-clad moral enforcers; they speak only for themselves.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:19 am
this is not worthy of any discussion , it is fairly petty matter , let’s not waste our time , life is pretty short and there are lots and lots of more important things to discuss . we are only giving importance to unworthy , let’s stop it .
June 1st, 2007 at 6:39 am
I am shocked at the comments received on my comments about Gere’s behaviour. It looks there are people in the Indian community who are prepared to accept anything in the name of ‘modernism’ and trying to live following what is given to them by the media. They might aswell accept pornography, child abuse, pedophelia, binge drinking, gay priests and worst of all terrorism. Such little people who sit in front of TV giggling, entertaining themselves by watching mainly trash normally have no wider sence or knowledge as to how to live a healthy, clean and Godloving (not Godfearing) life without being imposed to behave by ‘law’.
The tragedy of the world today is that many people think religion is about following rules and regulations written down in the so called ‘holy books’, but one has every chance to do whatever they like without getting caught by the Law. No wonder such religions still do not know who the God is and are struggling to control their believers. Now this will be dismissed by some thick heads as too old fashioned and get drowned under the pressures of the media. Such people will also accept it as freedom.
The decent and educated people like Mark Twain, Gore Vidal have always looked towards India (not Rome or Mecca) to bring about moral, decent and humane life without laws after laws, as God intended. India doesn’t need to be told what ‘freedom’ is. The very ethos of Indian philosophy and religion is ‘freedom’. India is in the mess of HIV because of little people accepting anything in the name of ‘Westernisation’ and relate it to ‘modernism’. To such people such thoughts are too old fashioned, living in the past etc, etc. I still think people like Gere should be banned from entering India and asked to stay firmly in the immoral evangelical world of America.
Kumar
June 1st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Kumar, I think your thoughts are terribly confused. Yet again you have managed to come across as a very ‘Such little people’ (your own words) by finishing off your last sentence in such a shameful manner. I don’t know if you are a fanatic or just someone who is stuck in time.
I am a Hindu, happily living in the UK. I would like to think that I manage the interaction between the two cultures very well. Having lived in India, I am only too aware of the standard of the ‘morals’ and there is no way that the Gere/ Shilpa incident doesn’t deserve the time and energy given. Whatever Richard Gere’s intentions were, let it be.
Take a read again at the others comments above. Focus on the real issue of Aids and it quite clearly narrows down to the ‘indians’ behaviour which is sadly, either, through ignorance or pure selfishness.
June 1st, 2007 at 5:48 pm
As a ‘westerner’, I was surprised by the reactions to Gere’s kiss. Everybody here thought that hindus were the most tolerant people on earth. Anyway, I don’t feel like blaming those people who protested. They also have their reasons: I think that this is an emotional reaction to the secular civilization and its advancement in traditional countries. Traditionalist people feel that the invasion of cultural products from the West (especially America and England) is even more damaging than military/political Colonization.
And, surprise: Maybe the real fundamentalists are those who think that the ‘values’ of secularization (free sex, consumerism, atheism, etc.) are to be imposed on the whole world, regardless of traditional values which have sustained peoples for ages.
June 1st, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Indian media didn’t exactly make a huge fuss out of this, their western counterparts have also done it in the past when it came to janet jackson’s boob slip and britney spears’ mouth to mouth with the other whore named madonna, both of which can be equated to this shilpa incident.
the simple fact of the matter is that what gere did was wrong and inappropriate in that particular situation and setting. this shilpa two dollar whore is trying to wave it off and asking indian audiences to become more modern as if indecency is synonymous with progressiveness and modernity.
either way this issue is trivial when compared to the slut fest on bollywood, so why the big fuss?
June 1st, 2007 at 10:13 pm
Looks like some one very soon is going to acuse me of living on anothre planet. To me Gere was trying to show how Indian masses are stupid and naive as to know what a kiss is. Instead of demonstrating on stage in a vulgar way he could have just said that one cannot catch HIV by kissing some one. And people would have understood it. But no, he deliberately took the advantage of secular and democratic India where people truly enjoy freedom because it is part of the Indian culture. Countries like Pakistan, Bungladesh, Soudi Arabia, Afghanistan, also have HIV problems, Gere should try his tricks over there and see what happens to him. Would he go home alive? This is why I strongly object to people from white west going to India disguised as ‘do gooders’ taking advantage of their skin in free India and start teaching how to live, how to clean themselves, how to worship God without even knowing who their God is and where their heaven is. Recently Richard Dawkins has very correctly called their God a ‘Sky God’. Hindus, no matter how small you are, should be proud that at least we know our creator a lot better than others. So let us live respectfully and make sure we don’t let Him down by converting ourselve to others way of life.
People of India do not know how much the intellectuals of the world respect and appreciate Hindu religion and its philosophy of life. Let us not lose it.
Kumar.
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:41 am
Get over it people. All this rubbish talk about a kiss from a country that among other things gave the world the Kamasutra. Yeah, okay… whatever.
June 2nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Whilst I agree it was blown out of proportion, I understand why it happened. I for one don’t want India to become a nation in the same vein as Britain, whereby couples kiss and fondle each other in public with no regards for others. It’s not ‘advanced’ or ‘modern’, but quite primitive in my humble opinion. Dignity and honour are our greatest gifts; let’s not squandor it.
June 2nd, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Raj Malhotra is not a Hindu but a westernised neo-Hindu, who tries to understand and interprit Hinduism from a european point of view, to fit in with his europeanised lifestyle.
I am concerned to read some of the comments he has made.
Raj Malhotra, please answer the following questions:
“Hinduism and secularism as cousins”
They are not! Hinduism is Hinduism and secularism is secularism. Where did you learn that Hinduism is somehow cousin to secularism?
“It is wrong to say America and the West has no culture it has, infact more then anything people like ‘Kumar’ promotes, this culture is entwinned in the ethos of freedom to be, freedom of expression, and to be whatever you want to be. This is what modern Hinduism is all about, so for the two there is a bridge, and many Hindus are embracing it quietly, because they cannot be bothered with people like ‘Kumar’ -yesterday’s men!!
These so called Hindus who are embracing this american lifestyle are Coconuts like yourself who are drifting away from Hinduism in favour of the american way of life. These are the same people who call themselves modern Hindus or neo Hindus. They are Hindus only by name and have nothing in common with Hindus! This is why they are “embracing” this so called lifestyle “quietly”
“Unfortunately, in my experience, Indians, Pakistanis and the rest are not very good at showing unconditional love, not just to their partner in life, but to their own community, and reading Kumar’s article just proves I am right. But their is a dearker side to his article!!!…Racism
Speak for yourself! In my experience, Hindus brought the notion of unconditional love to the world. That’s why our youngsters look after their elders instead of sending them into care. That’s also why many of our marriages last a lifetime.
You acuse Kumar of racism, and at the same time you portray your bigotry by discriminating against christians and muslims.
What unconditional love are you referring to? What has Kumar done that is disciminative, which you have not done yourself?
“I will leave you with this, there is a new world taking shape, and for Hindus, I suggest you do what i do, reconcile the positves of Hinduism and embedy it within modern thinking, Hinduism allows for that…and then take part in the new world, of freedom, democracy, freedom of expression and thought, to be what what God intended you to be”
You sound like evengelical preacher! What God are you referring to? What have you read/heard which tells you this? Please provide proof
I am a, what you describe, modern Hindu woman. I am a praticing Lawyer, go out with my friends at weekends and enjoy my life very much. I am a practicing Hindu and live life according to Sanatana Dharma. My male friends know better than to try and grope or kiss me. I go to the Mandhir regularly and our Religious leaders encourage us to live with pride, self respect and modesty.
What you describe is what coconuts are doing when they loose their culture and try to justify to themselves that theirs is the way forward. From what you wrote, you know very little about Hinduism. If you want to live a western lifestyle, you go right ahead but don’t think that this is what represents the modern Hindu.
June 2nd, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Jag, I’m not sure why you have made these comments
“Agree Gere should have been more cognizant of Indian sensitivities…”
If you agree, why then go on to take a stance against Kumar?
“…but then these self apponited delusional do-gooders Kumars…”
Kumar had done nothing but to express his thoughts on the subject…just like you have. If that makes him a self appointed delusional do-gooders, it makes you one too!”
“…Kumars must direct attention to where its needed most the AIDs awareness that Gere was promoting stupid!”
What have you done different?
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 am
Thank you Sonya, you got it right.
It is with sadness I see lot of our youngsters walking up and down the streets badly dressed, smoking, hairs in mess, walking like ramboes and playing loud music in their cars. This is true about girls as well. They call it being ‘with it and coool’. I certainly wouldn’t want to put them in straitjackets or ask them to dress like those smoothies of Church workers and Jehova’s Witnesses who go from door to door Sunday mornings. Last time I asked them where is your God, one of them said, ‘He is everywhere’. I reminded them that when Hindus told the West that, they were condemned as ‘pagans’, and asked ‘are you trying to join our ‘pagan club’ through backdoor? They walked away from my deep front garden with their heads down. Unfortunately one of them was Indian, it broke my heart.
Am glad someone has managed to call me an ‘ideot’, I take that as one more qualification. In my thirty five years in London I have managed to walk down country lanes of rural Britain, jog around Serpantine in Hyde Park, rowing small boats and swimming in it, rowing in river Thames, sailing around Isle of Wyte, Ice Skating in Queens Club, horse riding, playing hard Squash, playing Cricket for my office, flying small planes and lot of travelling in Europe and America, besides my office duties at high level. Am I ‘man in the past’, ‘yesterday’s man’, old fashioned and a fanatic? To some young Indians (mainly ramboes) in Bradford, Southall and Wembley watching socalled modern Indian films (trash) for hours, violant and sexy films from America, I must be an idiot.
Kumar
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 am
Raj Malhotra is a loser. But he must have a nice sister. I want to date her and I want Raj Malhotra to butt out while I am with her. Thanks for being so understanding.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:48 am
There r so many “indians” in India who are still babu types that are pretty much prepared to take at face value whatever the westerners do is right.
Recently an Indian in the commonweatlh games groped a woman and was sent home. What was the big deal in groping?
Beside Shilpa Shetty on big brother was making the big deal out of some comments by that Jade women. Shilpa Shetty and people like Raj Malhotra (sounds like some bollywood white wannabee) are hypocrites.
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
The shilpa-big brother episode must be a great representation of the european ethos of “freedom to be”.
Us brownies shouldn’t at all complain when people grope our women or when they make racist attacks on national television against us.
It’s a part and parcel of the great european/white/american concept of freedom and raj malhotra is it’s biggest endorser (loser).
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:49 pm
I thought of adding a few more things to the list of my activeties.
I still do yoga, meditate every day, visit temples once every week without fail, argue and discuss religion with Christian and Islamic priests to the end without insisting they should take to Hinduism. Occasionally I still manage to sing in Hindi in tune with pride that even musical octave was invented by Hidus. I am glad Malhotra points out verses in Christian and Islamic scriptures asking us to believe that earth is flat, unlike Hindus who knew through their scriptures lot more correctly about astronomy. Malhotra has also called me ‘zero’, I hope he knows even ‘zero’ was invented by Hindus. I would insist, am neither round as zero nor empty as zero that he might imagine.
Kumar
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:05 pm
This has been blown out of all proportion by the Indian press. Shilpa is a celebrity - unfortunate things like this sometimes ‘go with the job’. She hated every second of that - but hey, she laughed it off for the greater good - the AIDS campaign.
Kumar - this is nothing. Walk along the streets of Juhu in Mumbai. Then publish what you see there. These are Hindu girls forced to work the streets out of poverty - and the Indian press or the public walks past it, but if its Shilpa, then its a big deal.
Go into the night clubs in top 5 star hotels in Bombay and have a look - it may be an eye opener for you.
We need to look at things in moderation.
June 4th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Pravin - yes, I know what goes on in big cities late nights. You wouldn’t believe if I tell you there were girls soliciting just 100 yards from Manchester Sq. in London in early sixties and before. Police vigilance removed them. Given Indian culture and philosophy our girls will constantly need protection from whites from West as well as bad Indians who try to copy them. In this country more and more laws against them have only driven them underground.
Hindus have better chance of correcting the practice if they are reminded of their religious duty and responsibility of enlightening thier own soul within by good deeds for better reincarnation. It is a fact that economic deprevation drives them to do things that they do not wish to do. So solution may lie in creating jobs and duties with resonable salaries for such girls. During my recent visit to Mumbai some of my shopkeeper friends, upon my request have employed such girls and taken them off the streets. This is a practiclal and workable solution we should follow, instead of just profiteering heavily in order to impress the Goddess Luxmi during Diwali.
June 5th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I can’t understand the need for such stridency( with which Kumar has been attacked) and the self-righteous manner in which it is done.
So what if people objected to Gere kissing Shilpa in public?Nobody lynched him/shipa or issued a fatwa –they were taken to court…..Does Richard Gere alone have the right to freedom of expression ?
And so what if we don’t kiss in public?We have our own culture .East India company has long gone into the nether world and no shastra/constitution mentions that we have to compulsorily become clones of the west….
Kumar is not yesterdays man .He represents a growing breed within the hindu fold who are proud and grateful inheritors of our ancient heritage,trying to shrug off western imperialism of the psychological kind.Hopefully he will be the face of tommorows hindu ..
Its sickening to see people in India being so apologetic about not being able to speak English,a school rejecting a girl from a lower middle class background (who is otherwise a brilliant student and has made it despite all odds)because her parents cannot communicate in english,in certain circles you can’t wear your traditional dress–since only “natives” do that…
We speak their language,we celebrate their festivals,we dress like them,we eat like them we put on accents like them and now we must adopt their notions of morality too??—otherwise we are not “modern”??
Well who wants to be a modern slave….(apart from raj malhotra of course)
The sad part is that it takes a westerner (five posts down from the top )–Benjamin to point out the grace of a “namaste”.When more westerners will start accepting namaste as a greeting only then will slave mentalities start seeing virtue in their own heritage.Till then happy boot-licking to you guys(raj malhotra &co.).
Best wishes
_CS
June 5th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
I like what Kumar says, but this is the oldest profession on earth - any thoughts of trying to eradicate it is somewhat ambitious.
This trade exists even in countries like Saudi and Iran. If they havent been able to stamp it out, what chance have we? As you say, in that event it would simply go underground which has its own dangers.
The logical thing in my opinion is to offer these workers a safe environment to operate in, give them access to medical and social services free, and legalise this trade.
I am not entirely sure of the analogy “need protection from whites from West as well as bad Indians”
One must not forget the other side of the coin in this seedy trade, that these girls provide an important service which young unmarried men actively seek, and in its absence, I think there would be a vast number of rape cases everywhere with devastating consequences for the innocent victims of lust. Even as Hindus, we have to look at this rationally, and not reduce ourselves to being purer then pure, or judgemental. Just a different viewpoint here, that is all.
Finding employment for these girls - what a great idea, and indeed a deed of good. What is important now Kumar, is for you to keep an eye as to whether these shopkeepers are taking advantage of these girls, or not? And whether the grils are still working there and happy 6 months down the road.
CS - I dont think people are “attacking” Kumar in the spirit of your words.
These are controversial issues, Kumar expresses his views, others theirs, and its just a highly spirited debate of differences in opinions (like mine here) - it would be boring otherwise I would have thought.
June 6th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Ref:
CS - I dont think people are “attacking” Kumar in the spirit of your words.
These are controversial issues, Kumar expresses his views, others theirs, and its just a highly spirited debate of differences in opinions (like mine here) - it would be boring otherwise I would have thought.
===================================
===We obviously have a difference of opinion rt here on what constitutes an attack…I don’t consider calling someone “zero ” as simply another opinion but an attack…. And yes ,put two people in a room together and there will be 25 different opinions—let opinions be attacked not persons,otherwise expect some mud to be thrown back…Yours I’ll grant is a very measured tone …===
Best wishes
_CS
June 8th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
We have our own values, and our own traditions, morals and codes of morality. There is nothing hideous about them to feel ashamed of. We should not forget that it was the likes of Rani Lakshami Bai of Jhansi, Maharani Ahalya Bai of Indore, Rani Durga Vati of Mahoba, Rani Tarabai of Tonk, Rani Rajbai of Badwan (Kathiawad), Hadi Rani Chudawat of Bundi, Rani Bhimabai Holkar and many others such Hindu women that the world bowed down in reverence before them; and not for the likes of Shilpa Shetty.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
“People like Kumar and those who protested (might have) clearly belonged to another period of time, medieval”; but, Sir, they have shown their Hinduship in essence and have correctly represented Hindu ethos. They only expressed their disapproval at the rising trend in the so called advanced and modernity-pretending modernised Hindus to shamelessly, thoughtlessly ape and imitate only the degenerate things of the libido-lasciviousness-prone open present-day Europeo-American society.
Yes, Kama Sutra was given by our country; so what? Has it taught anywhere a free display of it in the public, on the public stage and before the gaze of the audience and battery of TV cameras?
Kama is not taboo in Hindu Dharma if it was within the limits of decency and Dharma. “I am Kama unopposed to Dharma, O! Lord of the Bharatas”, so said Bhagwan Shri Krishna in Gita 7:11.
June 11th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Alas poor Kumar (sarcastically).
You’ve attacked for a position that holds an assaulter to a moral grade. People are attacking you because you call an assault an assault. I don’t know th particulars but if SS had not wanted to participate in RG’s demonstration this is an assault and battery on her person. We as members of a society have an interest in protecting our people from such assaults and batteries and thus this is a crime (not just a civil problem). It is SS’s right to bring charges onto RG. If she choses not to than she condones such attacks on all persons. That is her moral responsibility to participate in this society. If she consented to the kiss then it is moral question of censorship and a separate discussion applies.
It is clear that RG’s western mind set considered this a trivial attitude and thus no great thing/ overblown. For hindus the chastity of a woman (and men) is not just sexual. There is a brahmacharaya beyond the physical acts. The Mahabharat really begins with the attack on Draupadi. Then ineptitude of the greatest men of the world to come to her aid is a deserved comment on their impotence without Krishna. If a man and woman kiss or grope in consent then it is not our business; but a trivialization of a person’s body is a big step to hedonism - not an alturistic demonstration of how kissing does not spread aids. (I know a few movie stars with whom I’ld like to demonstrate that kissing doesn’t spread poverty - if they volunteer).
In effect all this argument is correct, as our tradition teaches, all points of view are needed - 1001 names of god.
hariaum
June 13th, 2007 at 6:51 am
Many a times and more conveniently Kama Sutra is mistaken to be part of Hindu religion. Kama mentioned in Geeta was part of Hinduism but Kama Sutra by Vatsyayana was only a thesis written much much later as part of sex education. Kama in Sanskrit only means desire.
It is unfortunate that today mentioning anything about Sanatan Dharma or Hinduis is treated as medieval. As a matter of fact it is applicable and will be applicable to human behavior for thousnads of years to come because it is about the Universe, the Earth and human nature. It is about keeping in touch and ultimately uniting with our creator. While other religions will have to change as the time goes by or live by hating other humans, losing god given ‘freedom in the process. So Hindus who will follow their religion more understandingly and correctly will always be uptodate, modern and progressive.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:08 am
having read through all the reply’s to this article i am happy to see that people like kumar and sonya are in the minority.
i can not help but feel that its people like this that have stopped the devlopement and progression of both our religion and our country.
what you must remember is that both religion and culture are dynamic and not static- things do change with time, some beliefs are forgotten and new ones are formed.
just out of interest i would like to know kumars and sonyas opinion on
1)caste system
2)the hindu practice of sati
3) the hindu pratice of slaughtering animal (horse) in honour to the gods.
4)should hindu parents talk to their children about sex.
as for the richard gere issue- this is no big deal- for god sake look at the bigger issue -HIV. I wish the media and court spent more time and money on HIV rather than trying to prosecute Mr Gere.
As a doctor living in the UK i am convinced that HIV is going to be the next big hurdle for India- this time bomb is already exploding
kissing is just a act of affection and greeting - not necessarily a sexual one as some people think. i was recently at a Ismali wedding in the UK and i found that it was common to kiss people you meet even if you dont know them. Looks like the the ismali muslims are more liberal than most hindus !- who would have though
July 1st, 2007 at 5:58 pm
“having read through all the reply’s to this article i am happy to see that people like kumar and sonya are in the minority.”
Which replies are you referring to? As far as I can see, most responses after my initial post seem to agree that mounting a Hindu lady in such a manner is not acceptable within the Hindu way of life. Please read peoples’ responses carefully before making such a false statement!
” i can not help but feel that its people like this that have stopped the devlopement and progression of both our religion and our country.”
This is identical to the statements made by missionaries in order to convert Hindus to christianity. Converted Hindu women are then encouraged to drink excessive amounts of alcohol, wear shorter dresses, speak in English only, and sleep around freely. Otherwise they are classed as backward Hindus and non progressive. You sound exactly like these missionaries.
What is this progress you are referring to Amit? Is it progress towards a christianised India?
“what you must remember is that both religion and culture are dynamic and not static- things do change with time, some beliefs are forgotten and new ones are formed.”
This does not give you the right to mould our beloved Dharma to fit into your lifestyle! I tend to follow what our Gurus, spiritual leaders and Hindu Academics tell us - and not what some coconut quack from the UK tells us -especially one who models our Dharma on ismaeli islam!
” just out of interest i would like to know kumars and sonyas opinion on caste system,the hindu practice of sati,the hindu pratice of slaughtering animal (horse) in honour to the gods, should hindu parents talk to their children about sex.”
Hindu parents should and do speak to their children about sex. The schools Hindu children go to provide yet more sex education. This does not give automatic rights to some elderly pervert to mount a Hindu lady in the name of sex education!
All but the last issue are outside of the scope of this discussion and I will not waist mine, or the readers, time in discussing these.
“as for the richard gere issue- this is no big deal- for god sake look at the bigger issue…”
Let’s look at both issues! Aids is a huge problem in India and I do make my contributions towards a resolution on a regular basis. There are numerous Hindu networks which are actively workings to solve this problem and I am a part of one. If you really are a doctor, I hope you have/will take time out (like many real Hindu Doctors have) in order to help the various casues who are working hard to reduce this problem.
The other issue is that westerners are coming to our country with aparently “good intentions” to cure disease and reduce poverty and are imposing their hedonistic way of life upon us (just like the countless missionaries). If Gere is a Bhuddist adherent as he claims, he should have good knowledge about the way Hindus live and should know better than mount/grope a young Hindu lady in public.
As a Lawyer I do come across countless cases, where ruthless criminals such as paedophiles try to defend their actions by “offsetting” these with the “good” acts they carry out, such as working for charities, ect. Most dim witted people would at that stage find a soft spot for these criminals. I am grateful that there are intelligent people out there who can look at things are they are. This is an extreme example, but the point I, along with many people here make is the same.
We have to look at the two issues seperately!
“i was recently at a Ismali wedding in the UK and i found that it was common to kiss people you meet even if you dont know them. Looks like the the ismali muslims are more liberal than most hindus !- who would have though”
There is also a law within islam which allows a man to “marry” a woman for a single night, providing she is finacially compensated for it afterwards.
Liberal or not, you can model your own life according to islamic traditions, but don’t impose it on us Hindus! We will progress in a respectable way guided by our Dharma.
Finally Amit, take another look at the photo in the article and note the response by Shetty ” Yeh toda zyaada ho gaya”
Tell me, would you permit an old pervert like gere to mount and grope your Mother/Sister/Wife/Daughter like that?
July 2nd, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Amit, I wanted to discuss a couple of points you had made in your earlier response.
Amit said:
“i can not help but feel that its people like this that have stopped the devlopement and progression of both our religion and our country.”
I wanted to ask what makes you think that the development and progression of our country (I make the presumption that you mean India) has been stopped?
India is and has been one of the fastest developing countries in the world, with record growth rates for over a decade! This was kick started whilst the BJP government (a government which represents people like Sonya and Kumar) was in power and is still going strong. What gave you the impression that the country’s development has stopped?
I agree with you that, unfortunately, the progression of our religion has been hindered. Some might even argue that our religion is regressing and Hindu population is rapidly declining. But this is not because of people like Kumar and Sonya. To the contrary, it’s people like them who have contributed to preserving Hinduism. It is infact people like you and Raj Malhotra who have caused the regression of Hinduism. It is a fact that this is largely due to the western influence in India. Bollywoodies constantly push boundries in order to appear “modern” to the Indian public and also to appeal to the western consumer market. This has a massive knock on effect on young Hindus who take inspiration from what they see.
I agree with Sonya that there are two seperate issues there to be considered. There is indeed a huge HIV/AIDS crisis in India and there are a lot of groups dealing with the crisis as best they can. Many celebrities, sports personalities and politicians use their fame in order to educate Indian society. Most aids awareness events go by very succesfully without any adverse media critique.
There is also the issue about the incident between Shilpa Shetty and Richard Gere, which has offended many Indians in India as well as abroad. There is however, a considerable minority of Indians who insist upon ignoring this issue as Richard Gere was co hosting an aids awareness campaign. I keep reading responses like “look at the bigger picture”
I do indeed look at the bigger picture and wish that you would too. I recall many Indians making the same statments about Maria (Mother..?) Teresa. After all, she came to India to help blind people, people with leprosy, and other major illnesses. This is all good, however, in the process she single handedly converted tens of thousands of Hindus to Christianity. I have heard many of her speeches and she took every opportunity to speak ill of India and the “backward Hindus”.
This is why there is a large section of Indian society who is very cautious of these westerners who come to India with aparently good intentions. Moreover, we have to ensure that our culture and customs are strictly followed by these westerners. After all, India is where Hindus will thrive.
There is a considerable number of Indian Babu types, as Duryadhan nicely put it, which looks at Hinduism with western eyes and I ask you all to bear in mind that progression is not westernisation. Becoming modern is not to become Christian - progression of Hinduism is not to make it a monotheistic religion. Infact the opposite is true.
July 3rd, 2007 at 5:27 am
having read through all the reply’s to this article i am happy to see that people like kumar and sonya are in the minority.
===it sounds more like your hope than your belief,like someone who has lost the race and is trying to convince himself –”even if i have come last,i’m actually first from behind ,so in a way i have won”===
i can not help but feel that its people like this that have stopped the devlopement and progression of both our religion and our country.
===and not invaders and colonialists ? not slave mentalities they helped to generate (like yourself) who see no worth in their own religion and culture and forever want to conform to their assigned roles as slaves?===
what you must remember is that both religion and culture are dynamic and not static- things do change with time, some beliefs are forgotten and new ones are formed.
===can you remember if slave mentality is dynamic or static?and if dynamic, when will it change?i think “slavery is my birthright(given to me by my invader masters)and i shall have it and forever have it” is a belief that is best forgotten.===
just out of interest i would like to know kumars and sonyas opinion on
1)caste system
2)the hindu practice of sati
3) the hindu pratice of slaughtering animal (horse) in honour to the gods.
4)should hindu parents talk to their children about sex.
===just out interest i would like to know when you hold a doughnut in your hand(see i’m being progressive and not using eg of vada)do you always see only the hole or does the doughnut part sometimes come within your vision?===
as for the richard gere issue- this is no big deal- for god sake look at the bigger issue -HIV. I wish the media and court spent more time and money on HIV rather than trying to prosecute Mr Gere.
===as a doctor do you expect the liver to do the work of kidney and vice versa?media is there do its work–they were only faithfully reporting what gere did there.and the courts likewise took cognisance of a case filed.===
As a doctor living in the UK i am convinced that HIV is going to be the next big hurdle for India- this time bomb is already exploding
===then mr .doctor get out of uk come to india and do something about it—-but then i forgot you’re a believer in “lip” service ,thats why no objection to gere molesting shilpa.===
kissing is just a act of affection and greeting - not necessarily a sexual one as some people think.
===some people think some ways ,other people think other ways.you remember your parents greeting the opposite sex (that is strangers) with a kiss?it might be a greeting for a westerner but not so in india.===
i was recently at a Ismali wedding in the UK and i found that it was common to kiss people you meet even if you dont know them. Looks like the the ismali muslims are more liberal than most hindus !- who would have though
===who would have thought that hindus will be asked to conform to not only western standards ? and that too by hindus themselves===
best wishes
_CS
July 4th, 2007 at 5:56 am
why you censured my “piece the resistance”?:-(
CS sticks out her/his/its tongue at the moderators of this group.
shan’t talk to this group no more
TATA with a BATA
July 4th, 2007 at 8:15 am
CS,
I think Gere kissing Shipa and HIV problem is loosing the perspective. I wasn’t complaing about the kissing, it was the vulgar way in which it was done in public. I have been kissed as a welcoming gesture at the parties by English women whom I knew. That too in Britain because of their culture. There are pictures, paintings of even Krishna and Radha kissing and people of India understand what it means. To me the manner in which Gere kissed was deliberate act to illtreat Indians and undermine their culture and value, descency with which Indians have been treating their women in the past. That we must maintain.
I have also attended Ismaili functions but have never seen men kissing women in any manner. Kissing a Mula or an Ayatolla is probably forbiden anyway. But I have seen their religious leader Aga Khan kissing women invited to his parties and at horse races.
To answer your list of questions: 1. In Hindu scriptures there is no mention of ‘caste system’. In Geeta Krishna has explained ‘Varnas’. Explaining the human nature he says that humans will always group themselves into four ‘Varnas’, Brahmins, Kshatrias, Vaishyas and Shudras. The nauture he axplains are the tendencies, aptitudes, likings and skills they acquired in their previous incarnations. That is why one finds children born in the same family from same parents have different attidudes, aptitudes etc., that evne surprises the parents. In Europe it was the industrialization that provided opportunities for the individuals to shine separately in tune with aptitudes and skills of the individuals. So a child always thinking of God, the scriptues, the rituals, learnig and teaching and religion would be a Brahmin. Child thiniking of defending the community, country by force would be a Kshatriya. Child thinking of commerce, making profit out of buying and selling would be a Vaishya and a child thinking of providing services for the efficient functioning of the societies, communities, towns would be the Shudras. As the Indian civilization is the oldest on Earth without industrialization children had to take fathers vocations be that anything. But as the time went by the groups got institutionlised, which were categorized as ‘castes’. So caste system is an aberation not part of Hindu religion as such. But ofcourse British made use of it for their ‘divide and rule policy’.
2. Again ‘Sati’ is not mentioned in any scriptures and was never a part of Hindu religion. Act of Sati used to happen only during Mogal invasion when women after the defeat of their husbands by the barbaric Mogals used to burn themselves to save their honour. The worst case was at the fall of Chitor when as the Mogal armies entered the castle the women jumped into the burning debris. But the British deliberately concocted Sati as Hindu practice to degrade Hindu religion for the furtherence of Christianity in India.
3. Ofcourse slaughtering of old and deseased animals must have happened in India but not necessarily for human consumption and commercial value. Only Cows became holier because of their association with Krishna and as suppliers of milk for our childrens survival.
4. In Hindu religion as their are no dos and don’t dos the life is very much dependant on individual’s understanding of the scriptures and intelligence. Ofcourse parents should explain sex in the context of procreation of God’s spicies and deliberate attraction of it attached by God. In the present situation due to Western influences children should be given the basic knowledge and information about sex especially by thier mothers. But understandably it is difficult to know when.
Hindus do not have to conform to Western values and standards, the religion has sufficient and stronger philosophical base to lead a fruitfull life as it is not man made.
July 6th, 2007 at 6:56 am
Yes, ‘amit’, ‘religion and culture do change with time’. But, brother, Dharma is eternal (hence, called Sanatana). It does not change. How can one that is Sanatana change, and also the ‘Sanskriti’ based on it?
Our Dharma was the same over nine hundred thousand years before during the time of Bhagwan Shri Ram, the same five thousand years before during that of Bhagwan Krishna, and it is the same now during that of Sonia and Mohan Singh. Any change that one may happen to observe these days, is an aberration, a lapse on the part of the persons concerned; and not Dharma.
The Dharma of Sun, Air or Water have not changed with time – they do not, and would not. How can then that of the Hindus? We should always keep in mind the difference between Dharma and religion.
You say, “kissing is just a act of affection and greeting - not necessarily a sexual one”. Of what type was it in the case of Gere? Greeting and affection between a brother and a sister, between a father and a daughter?
July 6th, 2007 at 7:42 am
Yes, ‘amit’, ‘religion and culture do change with time’. But, brother, Dharma is eternal (hence, called Sanatana). It does not change. How can one that is Sanatana change, and also the ‘Sanskriti’ based on it?
Our Dharma was the same over nine hundred thousand years before during the time of Bhagwan Shri Ram, the same five thousand years before during that of Bhagwan Krishna, and it is the same now during that of Sonia and Mohan Singh. Any change that one may happen to observe sometimes these days, is an aberration, a lapse on the part of the persons concerned; and not Dharma.
The Dharma of Sun, Air or Water have not changed with time – they do not, and would not; how can then that of the Hindus change? We should always keep in mind the difference between Dharma and religion.
You say, “kissing is just a act of affection and greeting - not necessarily a sexual one”. Of what type was it in the case of Gere? That of a brother a sister, a father and a daughter?