Lay off meat eating Hindus…PLEASE
“How can you call yourself a Hindu?…YOU EAT MEAT!!!” I heard two Hindu boys yelling at a girl in a recent event at City University Hindu Society. The discussion was supposed to be on the subject of “Karma and Reincarnation”, and hence quite unrelated to an individual’s dietary habits. But somehow the discussion had sidetracked onto whether a non-vegetarian person can consider him or herself to be a good Hindu…
April 29th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
If we do not comment on these false-Hindu’s and their meat eating, OUR SILENCE IS OUR GUILT. Jai Shree Ram
April 29th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Although there are many different sects within hinduism, one of the fundamental principles is that of non - violence. How that is observed is up to the individual…
April 29th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
For once an intellectual post, good post. I totally agree with you cannot judge a person by there dietary habits!..Remember , Hitler was a vegetarian! so go figure!
April 29th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
I agree that being a rude fanatic is deplorable, and that many substitute a smug self-satisfaction in their beliefs and practices for a real striving to come to an awareness of what the beliefs and practices should produce: inner Realization. Yet vegetarianism is a prime support to that striving, and Hindus should not be ashamed of spreading the word about the benefits of all aspects of vegetarianism, without, of course, ruining that “evangelization” with a brutal one-upmanship. Leave the brutality to the meat eaters.
A good article on Vegetarianism is “Spiritual Benefits of a Vegetarian Diet” at:
http://www.atmajyoti.org/sw_spir_benefits_veg_diet.asp
April 29th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
I personally eat meat and I am a HINDU, I was vegie for the first 13 years of my life. I feel that eatting meat does not make me any less of a hindu then any one else on this forum.
From personal experiences I have seen many of my friends of whom are hindu that do not eat meat, lack knowledge about the religion and are only vegie due to the fact that they have been bought up that way and don’t actually know why the shouldn’t eat meat. Im not saying that all vegie hindu’s are like this. But I believe that eating meat does not make you any less of a hindu then vegie hindu and that you shouldn’t be judged upon this.
April 30th, 2007 at 4:16 am
I do not believe that there is even one religiouse person on this earth who follows every thing good advocated bu their religion.
Fact of the matter is that it is proven that eating meat is non natural, violent and ethical and spiritually does not seem right. What we eat is what we are, is a common and proven proverb.
As far as karma is concerned we are free to do what we want but we need to remember that eventually we will have to face the consequencies of our actions.
It is up to individual to decide what they want to do that is against their religiouse doctrines. They may decide to kill, consume alcohol, eat meat, womanise etc. They may even try to provide some sort of good reasons, excuses etc to justify it but the fact is they should be ready to face the consequencies, in all sense, physical, mental and spiritual.
Doing two right things does not justify doing one wrong thing.
pls think about it with clear mind, No offence intended to any body.
April 30th, 2007 at 5:09 am
Bengali Hindus,assamese Hindus,Nepalese Hindus,Sarawat and kahsmiri Brahmins,Punjabi Hindus(non Brahmins) and many many other Hindus have been taking meat and fish since ages.
If nonveg eating means one is non Hindu then more than 405 present Indian Hindus are non Hindus. if u insist on this defintion, I a Bengali Hindu,who stay in India would say these “I dont care”. Who r u to have the copy right on the definition of Hindu? U may give urself this right, i dont give a damn to you. U like to call me an infidel, a non Hindu, go ahead. Call me something else, I dont care. I am otherwise probably a far more practising Hindu than u guys! I medidate, do
gayatri mantra, attend pujas,do yoga, help RSS and much more. See Boss, I dont who u r . Dont type to bully non veg Hndus into ur type of Hinduism. If that means ,we r having different religions, let it be.
Now, a little polite talk. Listen, I and we all nonveg Hindus accept ur fundamental beliefs. That, non veg is really Sattwic and non veg is tamasic or Rajasic. For Brahmachary or for yogis, eating Sattwic food helps. But, then, I am neither Satteic nor Rajasic. Nor ,I think u r even if u consider urself to be. And, to go to sattwic nature, i need first of all to get rid of my extreme Tamas,which plague Indian Hindus(veg and non veg ). And,yoga says meat eating will make us
more rajasic and then when we r more strong,brave,confident and active, we will slowly turn veg and saatwic. We all agree that veg eating is more adorable and more civilised but dont try to force a single medicine through everyone’s throat! For that matter, even ahimsa is more civilised,more sattwic and more close to Yoga. But,why in Gita,Krishna asks Arjun to kill people! U have to understand this.
U dont agree with me ? Fine, I also dont agree with u. What next? Wanna fight? come. I will also fight. U say i a non Hindu? As i sais, I give a damn to ur comments. I go to hell? OK. And,u go to hell too!!
April 30th, 2007 at 6:28 am
Of course, the “holier-then-thou” routine if not something anyone should employ, people are not looking to be judged, and anyone following a principle e.g. vegetarianism, should not condemn those who are not.
One of the core principles of Hinduism is compassion (note this is very different from non-violence), then surely being Vegetarian is simply a matter of not inflicting unnecessary pain on other creatures just because we like the taste.
Ultimately, we all have our free will, however we should not justify such infliction of pain on other creatures, as anything “Hindu”, and despite it certainly not being something that is advocated by the Ancient Vedas of India - which are the scriptures that define what “Hindu” really is, we have made a personal choice to be un-compassionate.
April 30th, 2007 at 8:04 am
I have eaten meat all my life…..all forms of meat except beef. One year ago i decided to give up , this was due to worshipping deities in my home, i have become more aware of meat and the dirt and low level of this food consumption.
Our bodies do not need meat! we have been given such good fruit and veg by our gods ….why do we need meat?
spiritually we are cleaner , minds our higher level , i feel personally better with alot more energy and mind is focused.
If we eat meat we contribute to the massacres of killings …we contribute to mass torture of animals..we contirbute to evil non discriminate killing of innocent animals..we contribute to breeding of animals to slaughter..we contribute to abhorrent mass killings of animals for food and skins..we contribute to a food chain desined to satisfy our own needs, we contribute to evil against our deities who show no mercy for these crimes against our own gods…..our gods are animala as well have you forgotton?????
yes i have eaten meat …..but have now seen the light ..i serve my lords with veggie food , then servce others , then feed myself……Please see the light , you will achieve nothing from lustful eating of meats that will not reward you……meat is the love for a gluttuney…..veggie is love for spiritual gain and love of our hindu, jain, buddhist philosophies.
jai shaka hari ki
April 30th, 2007 at 8:36 am
Namaskar,
Congratulations to Shri Patel for his well-thought piece of writing. Shri Patel is right when he said that a man cannot be judged purely by his dietary habits. Even though I support ‘vegetarianism’, I fully agree with Shri Patel’s thinking that you cannot judge a man by the food he eats. One can very much be a good Hindu despite being a non-vegetarian.
(M.P. Balakrishnan)
April 30th, 2007 at 8:53 am
When ever the subject of Hinuism comes up some fanatical minded (Hindu talibans) humans who call themselves better Hindus than the rest open their mouths without a thought. Hinduism is not something that belongs to one group of people. Across length and bredth of India live hundreds of thousands of different races who ones used to be hunter gatherers and have maintained their eating habits for eons. Vegetarianism came into practice on a much later date as thinkers of those times and the evolving religions of “A” particular area instilled their philosophies into the minds of communties that lived in those times and became adherent followers of that system. Hinduism has always been and always will be a belief system of multiples, no one group has an authority on it . Implying non-vegetetians and suggesting that they are lesser Hindus is naive and sheer arrogance. I would like to say to those who see non-vegetetians differently, that they are as brain washed as the followers of other faiths who like to dictate and impose their faiths and belief systems on others and vis-a-vis. Lastly if those vegeterians who think that meat eating is so devilish a practice why on earth have they come to make their living in an ASUR land? The money they handle day in day out has passed through a butchers , fish mongers shop and god knows how many meat eating devils who eat beef ( worthy of a massive demonstration is it not ?). Greatness of Hinduism lies in its philosophies and liberty that it gives to an individual to preach and practice the way he chooses to and not being dictated upon. That is Sanatam Dharma ( universal Dharma ) the true democratic faith and nothing less the way i always put it . Jai Shree Krishna .
April 30th, 2007 at 9:39 am
this article sounds as though it actually condones meat eating!
Readers who are facing a dilema on wehter to stay vegetarian are going to think its fine to eat meat and guess what…ITS NOT!
April 30th, 2007 at 10:34 am
Aum Tat Sat.
If you eat meat and eat it only for sustenance of the body, and not for the taste then you neither enjoy its fruits or hold it in more value than other foods?. If you enjoy the meats and their tastes and are unable to control the desire then you can say that you do not hold full control of your senses. We all have weaknesses in different ways and areas, but our goal is to overcome every aspect of our senses , were we become one with everything at one time and are able to see through the great illusion (maya)its not easy. One who eats meat and enjoys it is no different to one who loves and enjoys his car trapped in this world by his senses. In conclusion its all relative. Jai Shri Ram.
April 30th, 2007 at 10:39 am
I think vegetarianism is a required tenet of Jainism while Hindus have now internalised the concept.
I know for a fact that many brahmin communities too consume meat –esp those that live in coastal areas….
I believe even the Valmiki Ramayana makes reference to meat eating …….?
I’m a vegetarian myself –can’t bear to even look at a show on TV cooking meat ,but I think it is only right that one should not shove down anothers throat, one’s views .
I guess it comes down to this–one man’s food another man’s poison.
Best wishes
_CS
April 30th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Nitin Mehta
One reason why Hinduism is not taken seriously is that the perception is that there are NO rules in Hinduism–you can do what you like and be a Hindu. Those Hindus who eat meat are born Hindus -not practicing Hindus. The author of the article found the meat eater more composed and somehow that made it OK. There is nothing composed about the chicken which is subjected to utter most cruelty before you consume it. Compassion and Ahimsa are the solid pillars on which Hinduism stands—this is what sets us apart from othe religions–compassion towards all living beings. Take away vegetariansim -and there is not much difference between Hinduism and other religions. Vegetarianism is the greatest gift of Hinduism to the world. Meat is the cause of massive damage to our planet, it the cause of many diseases and it is taking away food from the hungry. Almost 4 billion people could be fed by the amount of grains fed to animals. Almost 90% of worlds water resources are used up in meat production–a criminal waste in a already thirsty world. From Ram to Krishna to Shiva to the Pandavas there is no mention of meat eating. Those Hindus who cant give up the taste of animal flesh–please do NOT use Hinduism as an excuse to continue meat eating. What is it about Sanatan Dharma that it has survived for millions of years–when other civilisations have come and disappeared with the passing of time–it is Ahimsa—god protects those who protect others. This Ahimsa is the Ahimsa of the brave not cowerds. It does not mean that you do not fight your opperssors–it means that from a ant to elephant –you go out of your way not to harm. The McDonalds of this world want the billion Hindus to develop a taste for meat–they want to change the most fundamental belief of Hindus—this is the biggest attack on the survival of Hinduism –this is simply not a matter of personal choice—there is much more at stake here–we in the West should set an example to Hindus of India that no matter how much you progress–our Sattvic diet is so important that it should be defended with great zeal. There ar over 5 milliom English people who are vegetarian–many of whom are attracted to Hinduism because of its Ahimsa–we need to reach out to them by introducuing them to the delights of Indian vegetarian food. There are English people who run animal sanctuaries–looking after cows and other animals–we should be giving them moral and material support—it is no use keeping our Hinduism to ourselves—-Vegetariansm is that vehicle through which we can reach out to others and it is a badge of honour every Hindu should wear.
Nitin Mehta
April 30th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Meat is from a living thing, so are plants they too have and had life and its cut (killed) then washed and cooked, so in short a hindu is not a hindu if he or she has even eaten a plant as it was living too. Think
You cannot out caste some one only by what they eat, i am a Bramin and i eat meat so does that outcaste me too!!!!!!
Beef is out as its counted as a mother :- beacuse it gives milk and also takes 9 mths to bear a calf…. thats why!!!
April 30th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
A lot of the responses of the people who are vegetarian seem very judgmental and therefore un-hindu-like to me.
For example the point made by “ReddyK” starts very articulate and understanding, however this is completely contradicted by the statement “Leave the brutality to the meat eaters.”.
Can we please discuss things in a more civillised manner?
April 30th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Do you want to see the effect of meat eating? Read Gautam’s post above. Wow! Is that the type of mind anyone wants? Not me!
April 30th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
In the 17th chapter of Bhagvad Geeta, the definitions of sattvik, rajasik and tamasik foods are given in verses 8, 9 and 10 respectively. The food we take has been classified according to their quality and not content. Nowhere it has been mentioned that meat is forbidden. Of course beef is forbidden in the Atharva Veda.
Lord Rama, during his exile of 14 years was a regular consumer of pork. This is written in Valmiki Ramayana. Lord Buddha’s last meal was pork. Guru Govind Singh advised Hindus to stop take Halal meat (meat of animal killed according to Islamic or Jewish Laws) and used to say that those Hindus who haven’t eaten pork are not Hindus at all.
In Bengal, most people are worshippers of Shakti. And in worship of Shakti, sacrifice is a must (though it has been banned by secular government). In Bengal it is a custom to consume the sacrificial meat of the male goat as prasad of Shakti worship.
So friends, please don’t feel guilty in consuming meat (except beef). Be LIONS and not LAMBS.
Thanks and regards,
Kalyan Sarkar
April 30th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
i disagree - that’s like telling a jew that it’s ok to eat pork eventhough mosaic law says a hebrew must not eat pork.
i agree that the method the vegetarians took against the girl is wrong. you don’t convince someone of your point by bullying them. but the principle is right - krishna says if you eat animal flesh the animal has a right to come back and slaughter you. even if not through reincarnation karma will come back to you via health problems (such as with my family all of whom eat a lot of meat and have had bypass surgery or take medications to lower their cholesterol).
p.s. it’s ironic how the UN says meat consumption is the LARGEST contributor to global warming - more so than cars!! - and yet here we have a bunch of hindus saying its ok to hurt god’s creation to satisfy your taste for animal flesh
April 30th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I am a Hindu yet i eat meat… To eat meat doesnt mean i am any less of a Hindu. On religous occasions or months, i do not eat meat, but when the hindu calender doesn’t have anything religious in it. To eat the meat is not wrong, because every indiviual here even the bhramins have atleast one rule they dont follow or belief they dont believe. The rule we chose not to follow was the meat eating rule… nd i dont see anything wrong in it. I am a Hindu because i follow important rules like not eating beef specifically. I have not touched beef in my life, and there is nothing wrong in it. The girl was victimized for no reason at all. it wasnt fair what those boys did.
April 30th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
I think that the most important thing is that Hinduism is against is any sort of fascism which unfortunately I’m seeing displayed by the veggie fascists here . Vegetarianism may be a high ideal but not everyone can follow all high ideals and Hindus in the past just like now have always eaten meat. During the Buddhist and Jain periods maybe many Hindus did take up vegetarianism which then was taken up by the Vaishnavas as part of their beliefs .But that doesn’t mean its law for all Hindus .Shivaji and many other great Hindu warriors ate meat and they’re probably some of the greatest Hindus in our history. So let’s not confuse the rules and regulations which are set for Gurus and Sadhus as also for the mainstream Hindu society because its not written anywhere. Also I see many Gujuratis having an issue with other Hindus eating meat because that’s because they’re influenced by their cultural environment they are from but being a Punjabi myself I’m not going to have anyone’s cultural imperialism be pushed on me.Thanks
April 30th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Anon if suicidal non violence was a principal then Hindus and dharma wouldn’t be here. Hindus faught for dharma thats why we r still around. Besides ahimsa in most cases is just an excuse for COWARDICE. I think i am going to go and enjoy my goat curry now. so good.
April 30th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Shiv Das,
The only false hindus are you that make up stupidity about Ahimsa and Hindus not eating meat. We all know that most Hindus eat meat. They also were the ones that mostly likely go out on the streets and defend dharma. Then the likes of you which hide behind the puja and pray to have someone else save your behind.
April 30th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
As a strict vegetarian myself, my own view is that this, like many other such matters, is a personal question, for each individual to decide for themselves; however, if I might share a little story purely for interest..
I consider myself extremely fortunate to have been able to spend some time working with (actually, more like learning from) a certain highly respected RSS worker in Bharat, who originally hails from West Bengal. Whilst he is a devout and conscientious Hindu, he does nevertheless eat meat (after reciting bhojan mantra, of course!). When I asked him about this, he replied very simply, “Hum Bengal ke hein; hamaare yahaan to Bhagwaan tak bhi maas khaataa he, to hum kyaa cheez hein?!”
April 30th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Sanathan Dharma requires us to see and revere the same Divine Brahman in all living entities from the human being to the smallest ant. The same atman in me and you resides in every other living entity too. Killing animals to consume its flesh for our selfish desires is cruel and barbaric and goes completely against the tenets of Hindu Dharma. It also prevents spiitual progression. The shaastras state “non-violence is the highest Truth”. now I don’t beleive in absolute non-violence, but killing helpless animals and turning our stomachs into a graveyard is Adharmic, and unnecessary in a country like UK where there is sufficient alternatives available to fill our stomachs. In the Mahabharata, it is stated that “one who augments their self through the flesh of animals lives in misery”. It can also safely be said that meat is a “tamasic” food that polutes our body and hence mind, and should be avoided. Eskimos have little choice, but in this country we have plenty so there isn’t a way we can justify our weaknesses and lack of self-control.
April 30th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
It’s ridiculous how meat eaters misinerpret respect for animals (which is the basis of the teachings of our scriptures) with cowardice? Killing defenceless animals in battery farms and abbatoirs represents bravery does it?
April 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
I would send those who claim all non vegiterian hindus as non Hindus to the abbatoir.
April 30th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
How can you say that because we eat meat that we have less hinduism within us. Its not about what we consume, or what we get our energy from. It was said in the Ramayan, Ram had eaten buffalo’s whilst living in the wild. If our respected can do so, why can’t us minors do so? Killing defenceless animal’s is beside the point, their blood doesn’t lie in our hands, we are pure handed. Repsenting bravery, that is beside the point. Bravery is not the key to this. We are not proven brave for eating meat! Those who disown their own, for eating meat, you need to think, what your doing is it right? those you disown today, will be the ones you will need tommrow!
April 30th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
“Sanathan Dharma requires us to see and revere the same Divine Brahman in all living entities from the human being to the smallest ant. The same atman in me and you resides in every other living entity too”
Yeh but doesn’t that same divine Brahman also dwell in plants ? Dont tell me that’ss allowed in Shastra so its ok.Hindu philosophy encourages logic then just blind faith.You cant just tell people that can’t eat meat because its un-Hindu to do so.
April 30th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
i agree with reena….am a hindu…an am not a vegitarian but recently have converted into a vegitarian, but thats only because my boyfriend is a Brahman-Guji and i am a hindu-bengali girl, so therefore there is alot o difference in my culture, and his..but he has been teaching me the awareness of hindiusm, though am not very religious.
April 30th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
No one in this world can say to someone if they are a good hindu or not. remember onli god can judge you… and for the 2 guys that were judging the girl for eating meat, they cant, beacuse am pretty sure everyone done bad in their life… who are they to say to that girl, she bad for eating meat? dont judge people…………….
April 30th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Nitin Mehta - you do more harm than good with your one sided and extreme arguments. Hinduism as a whole can never have rules and regulations, and if you would like it to, then you are going to remain dissapointed. Rules and regulations are not good for all people, they create an imbalanced emphasis on relatively external things about religion, to the expense of the internal and subjective transformation that true religion aims for.
May 1st, 2007 at 8:23 am
I read the article and felt like the writer was saying something which always used to occur in my mind ,but hadn’t been channelised before.
I am a hard core vegetarian ,but still feel, there is room for nonvegetarianism in the pale of hinduism.
It is because of these veg fascist we have commies and other veg fanatics trying to change or stop sacrifices in temples etc. They don’t know the import of the karma(pooja) nor they want to know.
They just want to score some brownie infront of commies and non hindus or may be isckon variety.A question what do these bigots wear to protect their feet, padukas(wooden) or leather wear.
It is because of these veg fanatics we (read hindus) are being turned out into absolute ‘emasculates’.
If these veg fanatics have their way,they may have only veg food in army canteens.
so much for votaries of hinduism.
Straitjacketing Hinduism won’t help the cause of Hinduism
May 1st, 2007 at 8:31 am
Having read Mr Patels ariticle, one thing stands out…….this is not about hinduism, reliogion, or personal beleifs. Its about the suffering of animals and its abou moral values……putting it simply, meat eaters have no moral velaues.
May 1st, 2007 at 8:40 am
Eating meat is not the biggest sin in Hinduism , not knowing why you eat the Meat is !!!!
You eat meat to satisfy your thirst for greed, greed for flesh, flesh of innocent animals . eating meat is not mother of all crimes although Hindu, Jain , Buddhist and Sikh philosophy teaches meat eating is WRONG ……we eat meat to help the economy of the West and especially Mcdonalds.
In all above mentioned religions people will eat meat and justify through some means …..killing of a living being is forbidden in all eastern religions and we still do this!!!!!
If you want cleanse your body then give up meat fellow Hindu’s …..be better Hindu’s …..become spiritually cleaner …..you will not miss meat …i promise you …meat is like Lust , Anger , Frustration and Toxic Poison that will consume you by disease and mental torture …..look at You on a Friday night after pub in the kebab shop !!!!!!!!!!!!!
jai Shaka hari ki jai
May 1st, 2007 at 9:07 am
I will not enter the general debate, as this will go on for ages (as it has done in the past) and people end up saying the same points repetitively. However on a narrower point: Ram ate a Buffalo? I really dislike it when people make up stories, to justify their own habits. “It was said in the Ramayan”, well I think this is a case of how over time people have twisted the likes of the Ramayan and Mahabharat to justify their own actions. Are you doing the same old chap? Please don’t taint the Ramayan, and especially Shree Ram with such nonsense.
Jai Bajrang Bali!
May 1st, 2007 at 10:30 am
Alot of “wannabe” Hindus seem to be cropping up on thois site, well listen to this…you claim that nowhere does it say that consuming meat is a sin…but then again In the Ramamyan it also says that the Rakhshas army of Ravana kept belittling the sadhus by pouring meat onto the havan(fire) and therfore making a mockery of it, it also never mentions Shri Ram or any of the opther pious characters eating meat at all, someone earlier said that Ram ate pork in the forst…total B.S! Ram, Lakhshman and Sita ate only nuts, berries, fruits….the only character to be mentioned eating emat was Ravan himself!! and his scary looking band of Rakshas’ but if you “wannabe” Hindus want to follow in their path then thats upto you, but nobody in their right mind looks upto Ravana, and all you meat eaters out there using Hindusim as their front are gravely mistaken, and will be punished severly.We are a faith that belives in Karma, do something bad(eat meat) and the reseults will come back to haunt you.
May 1st, 2007 at 10:47 am
I agree with Sanjay’s comment. It is about Moral Values! and not to do with Religion etc… At the end of it, It’s Animals that suffer from the hands of meat eater’s… I also agree that Meat eater’s have absolutly No Moral Values whatsoever. Murdering animals, is so wrong!
May 1st, 2007 at 11:17 am
Namaste
Oh what a controversial subject U have chosen. But that is the beauty,asno subject is a No Go area for HV.
Although I am a vegetarian and proud of it, I feel we should never consider ourselves better, superior in any way or look down on others who eat mea.
It has been proved beyond any doubt that vegetarianism is a better, healthier life style, dietary habit provided we eat sensibly, with lots of vegis, fruits, lentils and dairy products. Some even consider eggs as vegis, as these eggs are non fertile, incapable of hatching.
The longest living animals are all vegetarians and that include elephants, tortoise and even whales who survive on tiny planktons. Their life span is from 50 to 200 years.
The tortoise on galapagos Islands live, on average 125 years and the one Captain Cook rode there in 1769 died in Sidney Zoo recently.
It is wrong to be judgemental, adopt holier than thou attitude, as some writers have done. We the Hindus are already divided on caste, creed, cupture, social and ethnic background. Surelu we don’t want to add dietary habit as one more factor in this scenario.
India is a vast country with many contradictions. It is Hinduism that keeps us togethet if not united, as we all know how inclusive our religion is.
It is kind, considerate, accommodating and liberal, in fact too liberal for our own good. Most Hindus in Kerala, Tamil nadu, bengal, Panjab, Nepal eat meat.
In fact Gujarat is the only one that is predominanently meat free, perhaps due to Gandhi influence. But even Gujarat is also changing fast.
I believe that we the vegetarians should try to potray ourselves but without aggressive attitude to others. We can spread the message without being overbearing or looking down on others.
The truth is on our side and inthe end it wii triumph.
Bhupendra
May 1st, 2007 at 11:39 am
“putting it simply, meat eaters have no moral velaues. ”
Yeh right this is a new one .So people who eat meat have no moral values and people like Hitler who was a veggie had moral values ?
May 1st, 2007 at 11:43 am
“If you want cleanse your body then give up meat fellow Hindu’s …..be better Hindu’s …..become spiritually cleaner …..you will not miss meat …i promise you …meat is like Lust , Anger , Frustration and Toxic Poison that will consume you by disease and mental torture …..look at You on a Friday night after pub in the kebab shop !!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Ravi I dont believe you ever ate meat at all if you’re coming out with this type of nonsense unless you’re trying to put your own personal guilt on others.I do go to the kebab shop but dont go to the pub because I dont drink.
May 1st, 2007 at 11:48 am
“In the Ramamyan it also says that the Rakhshas army of Ravana kept belittling the sadhus by pouring meat onto the havan(fire) and therfore making a mockery of it, ”
Yeh but which meat eating Hindu is going to do a barbacue over a Havan ? That scene you’re talking about is evil people and not meateaters.Like I said before none you lot of you would even be Hindus if it wasn’t to someone like Shivaji who was a meateater unless you think he wasn’t a good Hindu either.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:36 pm
The only wannabe Hindu here seems to be Dharmesh Agravat with his elitist nonsense about driving taxis and his snobbish attitude, first of all he doesn’t seem to know that Ramayana has more significance to a Vaishnava than to someone who is a Shaiva, different communities have different rules regarding meat eating.
The only wannabe Hindus here are all these veggie fascist cyber warriors (no offense to decent vegetarians like Dangerous or Satya) who wouldn’t even be Hindu in the first place if not for meat eaters like Baji Rao and other Hindu Veers.
I guess these lot have never heard of the story of Dharmavyadha (yep its in the Mahabharata), please go look it up.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:59 pm
From Nitin Mehta
If one does not pratice a religion it is only a label. All this talk of not being judgemental and not further dividing Hindus is nonsense. Christians and Muslims convert Hindus by saying that a religion that has no rules is a joke. We want a Hinduism without any annoying rules. It is no use saying that truth will truimph and we should not try and be holier then thou. While we make such self congratulatary statements–the meat lobby is busy trying to get all Hindus to eat meat. We are a laughing stock. If we dont speak up NOW then who will? The only thing that sets us apart from other religions is Ahimsa and compassion towards all living beings. Some claim only Sadhus have to be vegetarian! Are not Sadhus our spiritual guides? We are supposed to follow their teachings—but as I said we do not like any inconviniencies with our Hinduism ! Some even claim that they are the brave ones who have kept Hinduism alive because of their meat eating!! Now where is the bravery in eating a chicken or a goat? And how many of these brave meat eaters could kill with their hands a chicken or a goat? Some desperately say that because we eat vegetables we can eat meat too! They suddenly develop compassion for vegetables! They see no difference between harvesting rice and killing a animal with all the senses the humans have. Some one mentioned RSS pracharak eating meat because he was Bengali—well even Rabindranath Tagore was Bengali and so was Srila Prabhupad the founder of ISKON-they did not justify meat eating because they were Bengali— I was shocked to find out that Ashok Chougle the vice president of VHP eats meat. And yet we claim loftily we do not eat Beef –so is there no life in other animals? Gandhi said that a Hindu who protects a cow should protect all animals–a cow is but an example of our relationship with animals. At the end of the day to sustain this taste of animal flesh–people are desperately trying to bend the scriptures and other ‘great thinkers’ want us to keep quiet about promoting vegetariansm–they even call us fascists–well if we are fascists then so was Krishna, Gurur Nanak Dev, Dayanand Saraswati, Sai Baba, Swami Ramdev, Tolstoy, Pythagoras, Plato, George Bernard Shaw and millions of others–and I suppose those who eat and kill 55 billion animals a year are angels! I repeat the biggest danger to Hinduism is meat eating and animal slaughter—-the blood of animals will destroy this Sanatan Dharma– beacuse the Karma reactions will be terrible. By protecting the animals and being vegetarian we are doing our heritage a great favour. So those who pass moral judgements like ‘ everyone according to their preference’–are sigularly failing in giving our children and others the most basic ‘Sanskar’ of not eating animal flesh. Though it might offend some it is time to stop sitting on the fence. Ask anyone who says he is a Hindu if he is a vegetarian– if not explain the importance of being one.
Nitin Mehta
May 1st, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Plants do not have a brain, nor nerve endings (this has been scientifically proven) so DO NOT EXPERIENCE pain. I hate the way weak-minded Hindus state “Hinduism doesn’t forbid anything”. No it doesn’t but it IS a way of life and to claim it doesn’t impact on ethics is ridiculous. Hinduism doesn’t expressly forbid paedophilia (i know this is an extreme example), but does that mean these nonces are not acting against Dharma? Our scriptures discuss the principles of life, Brahman, creation and atman. It doesn’t tell you what to do; but there are certain actions that contravene this principles. A Hindu is one who seeks the Truth; seeking that Truth requires control over the mind and senses as well as living life in a certain way. Killing animals and eating their flesh goes against the ethos of Sanathan Dharma.
One who becomes addicted to sense gratification falls into the foulest of hells. There is no excuse to eat meat except a) ignorance and b) weakness. All living entities have the right to live; recognise the Divinity within all and the world is ours. Hinduism is not about identity or getting a tattoo to show off at nightclubs…it’s a way of life.
As for Shree Rama eating meat; what a load of rubbish. There is a verse n Valmeeki’s Ramayana that states that Shree Rama abstained from meat and honey.
May 1st, 2007 at 7:50 pm
To all those who justify eating meat by stating Shri Ram’s example, why don’t they go and sleep on the bare floor for the next 14years, wear the bark of a tree for the next 14 years, and roam extensively throughout India by foot for the next 14 years???
Do all this and then harp on about on aspect of Ram’s vanvaas….
May 1st, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Look Nitin, the people u quoted like Srila Prabhupad was a a very immoral and corrupt who created his own version of the Gita WITH many absurditties, which is why ISCKON itself is a con. Gandhi was a sexually preverted traitor. Who use to sleep naked with little girls to see if he would eroused or not.
To quote the likes of him Nitin, puts u in the scum company u deserve to be in. I also know that you and your little group of friends are loser cyber warriors who won’t contribute anyway to the defense of hindus or our dharma.
In fact you and your friends are perfect to become cannon fodder. Such as walking thru landmines to allow for safer passage of the real Hindus behind you.
I ALREADY know i am a better Hindu then the likes of you and I am sure you. I am not going to bend the scriptures. I rather have people like u bent.
Anyway today its time for some nice Haryali chicken.
May 1st, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Quote Makaveli:
“There is no excuse to eat meat except a) ignorance and b) weakness”
So “Makaveli” what are your views on Shivaji and Maharana Pratap? I’ve read a lot about these great characters, and by all accounts they were meat eaters. Who are you to call these people, if it weren’t for whom you wouldn’t even be a Hindu today, ignorant or weak?
As I stated in my original article, I’m a vegetarian, and I think its a good thing to be veggie, but the sheer arrogance of some vegetarian Hindus is outstanding and needs to be exposed for what it is.
May 1st, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Rajesh,
Just like the majority of Hindus these Hindus here haven’t even heard of the Hindu warriors like Shivaji and the many others and dont know anything about their history apart from what their guru or sect tells them which isn’t much apart from following ahimsa and singing bhajans.So that’s why they imagine that Hinduism survived by being peaceful but dont dont know the real truth.
May 1st, 2007 at 10:22 pm
Namaste,
Putting scriptural injunctions aside (which, in my mind, are proof enough), the issue should be easy enough to decide:
1. Under ordinary circumstances, you do not need to consume meat in order to live a perfectly healthy life.
2. If you eat meat under ordinary circumstances, it is because, in one form or another, you derive pleasure from it.
3. In order that you may eat meat, the life of an animal has to be taken prematurely and out of no fault of its own.
Conclusion: By eating meat, you are contributing to the slaughter of another creature for the sole purpose of satisfying a transitory pleasure. Under any other circumstance, this would be called sadism, and should be punishable by law in any civilized country.
With that being said, I do not think it is right to abuse - publicly or otherwise - the meat-eaters among us. After all, it is they who must bear the fruit of their actions. Rather, we should pray that they will learn from their mistakes.
May 1st, 2007 at 11:44 pm
The question has been raised a number of times above regarding whether or not Valmiki Ramayana depicts Rama as eating meat. I personally fail to see how this impacts on the question of whether vegetarianism is or isn’t either (a) desirable, or (b) ‘Hindu’. Dharma, as I have said before, is variable, based on desha, kala and parasthiti (place, time and situation); what was right or wrong for Rama or the people of the Ramayana in Ayodhya (or Chitrakoot, or anywhere else) so many millennia ago may or may not be so for us in Britain today. Personally, I am a strict vegetarian, something that I hold dear; however, I neither condemn nor condone meat-eating for anyone else.
Despite all this, however, since the question of meat-eating in the Ramayana has been raised, it is, I feel, worth considering it, even if only out of sheer academic interest.
One thing that is for certain is that the text has repeated mention of meat-eating, which at the very least demonstrates that it was practiced in ancient Hindu society.
In terms of whether or not Rama himself ate meat, there are a number of verses which mention meat-eating in the specific context of Rama (probably the two most famous examples being Chapter 20 Verse 29 of Ayodhya Kanda, and Chapter 36 Verse 41 of Sundara Kanda). However, there is, in each of these, a certain degree of ambiguity. The question, therefore, remains open to some debate as to whether these verses actually confirm or deny Rama’s vegetarianism.
I myself am certainly no great Sanskrit scholar to suggest that I can definitively resolve these uncertainties and ambiguities where so many great personalities on either side of the debate have failed to come to any conclusion. However, my own personal view is that, taken in context, the meat-eating verses in Valmiki Ramayana actually support the view that Rama did indeed eat meat. I am well aware of the arguments of the likes of Stephen Knapp (which are referred to in a link posted by another learned commentator in the other thread on this topic); however, personally, I feel that when the verse in question is considered in context, his argument falls flat.
I would be happy to discuss my reasoning further in private discussion but feel that this is probably not the forum to delve into any deeper textual analysis on what is at any rate actually nothing more than an interesting tangent from the actual issue at hand.
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 am
Dev why don’t you drink? if you eat meat then why not drink…..are you muslim?????
You ARE what YOU EAT !!!!! remember this Dev next time you tuck into your pork chops …pink and sweaty …… I hope in your next life the butcher shows mercy on your squeals as your helpless legs kick for freedom……. You will see others all lined up ready for their fate….
Dev show mercy now……for mankind for animal spirits , for Hinduism.
You are like a brother, Hinduism teaches that we are at differetn levels of understanding….you are at the bottom…..no worry you can still achieve some bliss …read scriptures and worship dieities in their beautiful forms .
jai shaka hari ki
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:10 am
Namaste
I entirely agree with Rajesh. Some of the great people, saviors of Hinduism were nonvegetarrians, like Maha Rana Pratap, Shivaji, Balaji, Subash Chandra Bose, lala lajpat Rai, the list is endless. These were the true sons of Bharat who saved and served Hinduism , along with many vegitarians as well. Moral high ground is not the sole property of vegis like us.
Hitler was a vegi. So it is absurd to divide, to separate good people from bad one based on their dietary or drinking habit.
I am a vegi and proud to be one but I do not considerate myself better or worse than any one, vegi or non vegi. So let us come down from our high horse and be part of the sane group, the good humans.
After all self importance is the worse kind of weakness in human beings.
Bhupendra
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:24 pm
From Nitin Mehta
This chap is abusing Srila Prabhupad whose Hare Krishna movement is the only Hindu missionary movement which has glorified Sanatan Dharma all over the world—they even ditribute the Bhagvad Gita to the people of middle east, ( this is what I call bravery). He abuses Gandhi the father of Indian nation and calls him a traitor—no wonder he is a meat eater. On what grounds can you call Gandhi a traitor—-I know you will say he helped create Pakistan–well no one could have stopped the creation of Pakistan–not even all the meat eating Hindus. Had it not been for the Gandhi and his disciples like Sardar Patel ( vegetarian) India would have been broken into many pieces. So Shivaji was a meat eater—his mother was not and neither was his Guru-the mastermind behind him. Ranapratap’s mother was not a meat eater too and his finanicier without whom he could not have fought the wars was Bhamashah–a Jain. And anyway if the meat eaters were so strong how did they let in the enemies in the first place? Where is the India of meat eaters in the world of sports? From Cricket to Hockey to any other sports the majority of meat eating players fail miserably. Winning wars is not about meat eating–it is about strategy, men, money and luck. It is the Guru of Shivaji who chalked out the strategy for Shivajis victory and it is his vegetarian mother who raised him on the stories of Rama and Krishna ( vegetarians). Subash Chandra Boses army was routed by the British. ( I have the greatest of respect for Subash Bose but meat eaters need take no comfort by giving his example). What are the meat eating Hindus of UK with all their bravery doing to stop the ethnic cleansng of Hindus in Kashmir–sitting here in the comforts of UK –you glorify Shivaji and indulge in meat eating because he did. When it comes to guts and courage–no one can match Gandhi in modern times–he took on the whole empire and inspired the millions of India to wake up. Hindu vegetarians are not pacifists–fight if you must fight your equal–there is no bravery in killing animals –our Ahimsa is Ahimsa towards those who are at our mercy–and it is this sublime moral principle that has kept this religion alive–by abndoning this principle–we are inviting the demise of this great Dharma. Without compassion there is no Dharma–that was the last instruction of Bhisma the wisest of all.
Nitin Mehta
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:07 pm
“The longest living animals are all vegetarians and that include elephants, tortoise and even whales who survive on tiny planktons. Their life span is from 50 to 200 years.”
What the hell are you talking about, all the whale species that I know of eat meat, primarily krill.
What next, you are gonna feed dhal and roti to Lions and Tigers to teach them compassion and increase their life span?
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:13 pm
This not not right guys… If one wants to eat meat, its their free will. They only time you can judge them is when they judge you. Ram ate buffalo, and to eat it, he had to kill it. To eat meat does not make you any less of a Hindu than a vwgitarian. To be an Harijaan in the Hindu caste system, it doesn’t make you any less of a Hindu compared to a Sadhu or Bhramin. You cant treat people differntly or discriminate them because of what they eat. Only if they eat beef should you discriminate them. I am not any less of a Hindu because i eat meat, i however dont eat beef
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Also using such ridiculous logic vegetarians must be weak cuz of their diet since they are usually eaten by predators in the wild, by the same token eating meat must also promote better ability to run because I am sure a cheetah would make all the human veggie heroes look ridiculous in a 100 metre sprint.
Certain species are built to kill, it’s in their instinct to kill and their diet reflects their ecological niche in the community, a grown Lion is not made by nature to play with you like your pet poodle does, it’s built for the hunt.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
“Dev why don’t you drink? if you eat meat then why not drink…..are you muslim?????”
Oh I see so if you eat meat and dont drink then you’re a muslim ?
So are you one of those nutters on Hinduunity.org ?
” Hinduism teaches that we are at differetn levels of understanding….you are at the bottom”
Yeh how am I at the bottom ? So does that also mean people like Shivaji and Lachit Bharphukan were also at the bottom because they ate meat ? The truth is you’re right at the bottom as you totally lack any knowledge or understanding of Hinduism.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:03 pm
“You ARE what YOU EAT !!!!! remember this Dev next time you tuck into your pork chops …pink and sweaty …… I hope in your next life the butcher shows mercy on your squeals as your helpless legs kick for freedom……. You will see others all lined up ready for their fate….”
Well I dont physically look like a pig after eating all those lovely Danish Bacon and eggs and I bet I’m more fitter then you.Most vegetarians I know are totally unfit and are suffering from many health problems. So it goes both ways..
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Dev: Do you order a hit of crystal meth with your bacon and eggs? it has been proven that a veggie diet is far more beneficial for a human being than one of a carnivore.
All you idiots talk about great heroes like Shivaji and Rana Pratap. First of all how many of you know for a FACT that they ate meat? Also look at the great deeds they carried out. What exactly do you do having stufed your face with the flesh of a helpless animal?
Are you telling me that eating meat was what made Shivaji great? Are you saying the jawans of the IA who follow a veggie diet are weaker or less brave than the meat eating jawans?
Most the Hindus I met at college ate meat and they were the weakest cowards I knew. They wouldn’t do anything for Hindu Dharma, nor did they know anything about it.
Man is the most destructive of all species and our failure to protect our environment and weaker species will have grave repurcussions for us all. Stop hiding behind great figures to justify your weaknesses.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:20 pm
“From Cricket to Hockey to any other sports the majority of meat eating players fail miserably”
Oh I didn’t know that all the other sportsmen from other countries that win medals are really vegetarians then.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
“Had it not been for the Gandhi and his disciples like Sardar Patel ( vegetarian) India would have been broken into many pieces.”
lol is that why Gandhi consented to partition then?
“It is the Guru of Shivaji who chalked out the strategy for Shivajis victory”
What nonsense, if you don’t know history then say so, Shivaji was quite capable and knew what he was doing from a young age, he already had his aim as Hindavi Swarajya long before he met Samarth Ramdasji who was more of a religious man than a war strategeist.
“What are the meat eating Hindus of UK with all their bravery doing to stop the ethnic cleansng of Hindus in Kashmir–sitting here in the comforts of UK”
lol by the same token what are all the veggie cyber warriors like you doing?
Oh by the way the Kashmiri Hindus are also big sinners because they also eat meat!!
“you glorify Shivaji and indulge in meat eating because he did. When it comes to guts and courage–no one can match Gandhi in modern times–he took on the whole empire and inspired the millions of India to wake up.”
hahahahahahaha I think you have been watching too much of Indian gov’t propaganda, plenty of people matched and exceeded so called Gandhis “courage”, everyone knows Gandhi’s nonsensical advice to Hindus during partition, he even fasted so that the Indian gov’t giev Pakistan 55 crores after it just invaded Kashmir, so much for the man’s bravery, in other countries he would have been shot for treason.
Also why are you complaining about Kashmir Hindus being ethnic cleansed because your beloved “Bapu” had already announced in 1947 that even if every single Hindu and Sikh was slaughtered we should all bear it cheerfully since the killers are none other than our Muslim brothers, so cheer up man and be a true follower of your Gandhi.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:38 pm
“Are you telling me that eating meat was what made Shivaji great?”
No we are asking who are all these non-descript veggie cyber warriors to judge people like Shivaji as less of a Hindu than themselves because he ate meat.
At least we ain’t the idiots that go and say “oh you don’t eat meat then you are not a true Hindu”.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:50 pm
“Dev: Do you order a hit of crystal meth with your bacon and eggs? it has been proven that a veggie diet is far more beneficial for a human being than one of a carnivore.”
Well thats very debatable because with all the Hindu veggies I’ve come across I’ve hardly seen any who are that fit and how would they when they stuff themselves with all those bhajias , pakoras and all other greasy food.
“All you idiots talk about great heroes like Shivaji and Rana Pratap. First of all how many of you know for a FACT that they ate meat?”
Its very well known so go and check your history before you try to paint this great golden veggie past of everthing Hindu.
“Are you telling me that eating meat was what made Shivaji great? Are you saying the jawans of the IA who follow a veggie diet are weaker or less brave than the meat eating jawans?”
Well most of the Indian army eats meat so lets be clear on that but if you didn’t act like the idiot you are now and see what point we were making then you will see clearly that we’re stating its not what you eat but what you do that makes you a better Hindu.
“Most the Hindus I met at college ate meat and they were the weakest cowards I knew. They wouldn’t do anything for Hindu Dharma, nor did they know anything about it.”
This even more ridiculous.So you tested every Hindu in college to a bravery test and then on what you found asked them what food they ate.?? Now you’re desperately trying to prove a point which is making you lose your argument like a fool.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
There sure are some stupid people on here trying to force vegetarianism on non-vegetarian hindus. Only fools argue over matters of flesh and meat.
I eat tasty chicken, lamb, goat meat, pork, and even venison on a hunting trip.
If you want to remain a veggie, go ahead. Don’t call non-veg hindus “false hindus” and so on.
Because in the end, you’re gonna be debating about how vegetarianism is so much better while others steal all your women.
Stupid jokers.
May 2nd, 2007 at 7:50 pm
“Killing defenceless animals in battery farms and abbatoirs represents bravery does it?”
I think you’re in the wrong place. This is for Hindus, not PETA lunatics.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:59 pm
As if Hindus didn’t have enough problems, we have to find complete non-issues to fight amongst ourselves over. I agree, there is a ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude being displayed here by a number of vegetarians; however, the non-vegetarians appear to be conducting themselves no better in this debate. Whether you eat meat or not, why not prove how much better you are by actually doing something useful instead of belittling your own fellow Hindu brothers and sisters?
Aum Shanti
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:48 pm
“Plants do not have a brain, nor nerve endings (this has been scientifically proven) so DO NOT EXPERIENCE pain”
Ok then that means you’re ok with taken the life away from the plant as it doesn’t experience pain.So if we then drug an animal before we kill it so it doesn’t go through pain then thats ok then ? And in the future if scientists do discover that plants do suffer when pulled out of the ground then chopped up.Will you all stop eating vegetables ?
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:17 am
I know this is a minor point, yet I feel compelled to mention it:
Harish Duggirala wrote:
“…Eating meat must also promote better ability to run because I am sure a cheetah would make all the human veggie heroes look ridiculous in a 100 metre sprint.”
And what, sir, is that cheetah chasing, that he must run so quickly? A gazelle! A pure vegetarian! And as anyone familiar with the life of the big cats can tell you, 4 times out 5, it is the Cheetah that loses the race!
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:04 am
Meat eating hindus practice jhatka or killing with one stroke as to cause the least possible amount of pain as possible. The scriptures allow for the consumption of meat by Kshatriyas and those who need it to be strong.
As opposed to Islam and Judaism which engage in halal slaughter where they let the animal bleed to a slow and painful death.
I respect vegetarian Hindus for their choice. Vegetarian hindus, don’t belittle and ridicule non-vegs just because we follow a DIFFERENT DIET.
That is incredibly stupid.
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 am
Dev …… pls read some scriptures ….
Bhagwat Geeta mentions “offer me a leaf with love and devotion , i shall accept” , it was not offer me a lamb chop , i will accept !!!!!!!
Ganesh chaurit says ” offer pan , ladoo and meva ” not offer chicken , kebab and fillets.
On a Puja plate we offer rice , sindoor , light and incense …would you share some of your chops and steak with our Gods??????
Dev, We first do bhog …offer food to our Gods and dieties …then feed the sangat..community , then eat ourselves….what would you do …offer everyone your lamb chops…….???????
I feel my level of hinduism is high …what do you think?
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:02 am
“Bhagwat Geeta mentions “offer me a leaf with love and devotion , i shall accept” , it was not offer me a lamb chop , i will accept !!!!!!!”
Whats that got to do with meat ? You cant even understand the meaning of that line .It’s about devotion and not about giving a leaf .Can’t you not even understand that.
“Dev, We first do bhog …offer food to our Gods and dieties …then feed the sangat..community , then eat ourselves….what would you do …offer everyone your lamb chops…….???????”
Well at the Kali Mandir they do like many other Mata temples.So what’s your point ?
“I feel my level of hinduism is high …what do you think? ”
Well I’m not really sure about that with the type of views some of you have sounds more narrow-minded then anything to do with Hinduism which I can see you van’t even understand.
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:05 am
All these Vegetarians going on about its more healthy to be vegetarian but all the veggies I’ve come across are either too skinny or like most of them totally overweight, suffering from diabetes or some heart problem and many of them have panda eyes.And I can bet most of you veggies here are also unhealthy.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:20 am
Hi
I am a vegatarian and am frankly disgusted at NITIN MEHTA and MAKAVELI’s comments. I mean how narrow minded can you get. Its best if you two keep your narrow minded views to your self, with your arguements you might actually convince everyone to start eating meat. Im having second thoughts myself!
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Dev I am a veggie and some would consider me slightly underweight, but that does not make me unhealthy. I just ran the London Marathon and therefore I run, I play football at high level, volleyball and badminton on a weekly basis. I have more stamina than a bleeding horse!! And as for having panda eyes, that does not apply either. I think I am a fairly good looking brother, even though I do say so myself!!
But seeing as you said “most” veggies, I shall leave it there.
Saffron (yet vegetarian) Tiger!
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:34 pm
“And what, sir, is that cheetah chasing, that he must run so quickly? A gazelle! A pure vegetarian! And as anyone familiar with the life of the big cats can tell you, 4 times out 5, it is the Cheetah that loses the race!”
I don’t know what teachers taught you science man but they did a pretty poor job at it as I can see, so going by this logic will you also admit that vegetarians are also weak cowards because even though a cheetah might miss a gazelle, a gazelle can never kill a cheetah?
When will you ever get it through your thick heads that different animals are built for different things and that it is natures way of keeping the balance, if there were no apex predators then the population of the primary consumers (deers, bison etc) will explode leading to a severe decline in primary producers (plants) and the result is a disaster in the community.
Only a moron would think that somehow herbivores are better than carnivores because both are an essential part of nature, ok enuf of the biology lesson, so did you guys start feeding Big cats dhal and roti yet, tell me how it went.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:50 pm
“Dev I am a veggie and some would consider me slightly underweight, but that does not make me unhealthy. I just ran the London Marathon and therefore I run, I play football at high level, volleyball and badminton on a weekly basis.”
Was you the guy in the scuba diving suit.?
I have more stamina than a bleeding horse!! And as for having panda eyes, that does not apply either.
Ok then did you win the marathon then or was it meateater as usual ?
I think I am a fairly good looking brother, even though I do say so myself!!
Yeh you can keeping on thinking.And maybe you can post your picture and we can take a poll on that.
But seeing as you said “most” veggies, I shall leave it there.
Yeh I do mean most.
May 3rd, 2007 at 12:51 pm
“And what, sir, is that cheetah chasing, that he must run so quickly? A gazelle! A pure vegetarian!”
And one cheetah chasing hundreds of gazelles says it all.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Dev …… “offer me a leaf, fruit, flowers or gold ” the phrase is about the devotion , yes i agree but what examples has Sri Lord Krishna given us !!!!!
he has not asked to put lamb chops and chicken fillets with devotion….I rest my case…….
Please let me know what kali mandhir of Shakti sect allows meat to offered as bhog? Goddess has shown her power by killing demons and drawing blood from devils (raakshash’s) , it does not mean you are like kali and kill ….she did this to prevent evil, you are doing it for your greedy belly.
Kali has necklace of skulls …. i want to see you wear this as you are so devoted to her image…..we do not dieities to be like them …no …we follow what they fighted for and the good the achieved.
On the other hand alcohol is used as offerings ….libations we call it!!!!
Bhaironath mandhir in Raipur (bhaironath form of Shiva) …i saw 10 bottles of whisky offered then given as prashad….. sorry you not be taking part in this Puja, YOU DONT DRINK…….i do drink ….i danced the rest of the afternoon to drums and music in reverence to my loving dieity jai Bhairo.
Please can i have example of what kali mandhir has allowed meat as bhog…..Offering ….???
Dev when will you give up lust for your greedy stomach…..think of spiritual stomach …you think of what will be your next bit of flesh …..Flesh becomes flesh …know what i mean….!!!!!
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Dev …by the way beef is also eaten by Hindu’s…..go to Maharastra and the the Hindu tribes of hill areas … the are lower classes of Harijan , they are devoute Hindu’s and eat beef and pork …. They usually clean sewers and do menial jobs……
The tribes of Gonda and Mundas (Bihar and MP) are also new forms of Hinduism , they practise local tribal beliefs along side shiva worship…..they eat meat including beef.
They are lower levels of Hindu philosophy….they are happy to remain at lower level of hindu sprirituality …they can improve their conscousness but are happy to live this way…..
Dev Hinduism is very open …but don’t use this as a reason to abuse our religion….you have a choice …the tribal peoples don’t have this choice…..
you will realise one day…….jai shaka hari ki jai
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Is this the same Nitin Mehta who is part of the young hindu vegetarian society? Now that we are discussing healthy vegetarians, its no wonder Nitin Mehta has taken a back seat. Nitin you the same guy who gave a talk on vegetarianism in the NHSF conference in london bout 2 years ago? i was actually there and couldnt help noticing you coughing and panting whilst giving the speach (Not to mention being over weight).
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pm
“Please let me know what kali mandhir of Shakti sect allows meat to offered as bhog? Goddess has shown her power by killing demons and drawing blood from devils (raakshash’s) , it does not mean you are like kali and kill ….she did this to prevent evil, you are doing it for your greedy belly.”
The most famous one is in Calcutta and there’s plenty more across the country so whats your point.??
“Kali has necklace of skulls …. i want to see you wear this as you are so devoted to her image…..we do not dieities to be like them …no …we follow what they fighted for and the good the achieved.”
Yeh you can to London to see my necklace of skulls if you want.
“They are lower levels of Hindu philosophy….they are happy to remain at lower level of hindu sprirituality …they can improve their conscousness but are happy to live this way….. ”
Oh they’re on the lower levels of Hindu Philosophy and you’re in the higher level ? You’re a total joker who doesn’t even knows what Hinduism is and can’t even articulate anything across apart from looking stupid.
“On the other hand alcohol is used as offerings ….libations we call it!!!!
Bhaironath mandhir in Raipur (bhaironath form of Shiva) …i saw 10 bottles of whisky offered then given as prashad….. sorry you not be taking part in this Puja, YOU DONT DRINK…….i do drink ….i danced the rest of the afternoon to drums and music in reverence to my loving dieity jai Bhairo.”
I see you’re still a bit drunk with the posts you been sending.
“Please can i have example of what kali mandhir has allowed meat as bhog…..Offering ….???”
Check the answer above once you have sobered down.
“Dev when will you give up lust for your greedy stomach…..think of spiritual stomach …you think of what will be your next bit of flesh …..Flesh becomes flesh …know what i mean….!!!!! ”
I dont think anyone really understands what you mean and it could be due to those bottles you been downing since morning
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Can anyone explain to me why non-veg eating Japanese are the most healthiest and longest living people in the world?
They eat anything and everything that moves. Their diet is largely fish/seafood based.
These veg promoters will tell you being veg is great and healthy, all while they gobble down greasy fried samosas and oily pakoras.
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Kalyan Sarkar Says:
April 30th, 2007 at 2:06 pm.
First of all, all non-vegetarian or meat eaters eat MORDA (corpse). I am sikh, and know Gurbani very well. Gurbani never tells us to kill to serve as food. What you have said about Guru Gobind singh ji used to say “that those who havent eaten pork are not hindus at all” you must give proof for this, because so far i know this he had never said anything like this anywhere. Not only Guru Gobind Singh ji, but all other Gurus as well never said anything of the like, if you want i can give parmans from Gurbani. If People are eating meat & drinking today, doesnt means it is allowed. It is clearly Prohibited in Gurbani (Shri Guru Granth Sahib) About eating pork, if is right than pork should be served in langer.
Waiting for your answer.
May 3rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Ayurveda, the Ancient vedic wisdom of life and longevity, recommeded meat as Human diet only for specific conditions, for e.g, in case of weakness, anaemia, tuberculosis, or to regain strength from a severe illness, or for people with specific climatic or occupational needs, e.g the warriors living in cold climates, where enough protien is not available readily for their muscle strength maintainance.
But in the modern day times, we have enough vegetarian options and varieties available. Killing another living being just for the sake of taste buds and gratifying our senses is Justifiable?
“You are what you eat”
Eating meat over a long period of time will definitely give rise to the latent animalistic tendencies, including Violence, greed, non compassion for other beings….so it is important to be aware of these subtle changes caused by the diet.
I have attached a link to an interesting video that might be helpful…..
http://www.clubs.psu.edu/up/vedicsociety/vegetarianism/
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 pm
From Nitin Mehta
“Dear editor
In the veggie debate some one said I was coughing and over weight at a talk I gave two years ago. Here is a picture –please put it on the comment page!!
Nitin Mehta ”
You can check his picture here :
http://www.jainology.org/images/articles/Motasingh.jpg
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Well you’re not the guy in orange because we all know who he is but are you the one with the turban who does looks healthy and fit or are you that guy who looks like he just got out of hospital after having liposuction and is still depressed.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Dear Administrator,
With reference to the stated editorial policy, I wonder if I might be so bold as to suggest that perhaps this discussion might now be characterised as “off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying”, not to mention circular, utterly non-constructive and pointless. Whilst heated debate is to be encouraged, this discussion has degenerated into little more than a mud-slinging match.
With all due respect, might I therefore humbly request the editorial team to put an end to this discussion, which now seems highly unlikely to be either heading anywhere or achieving anything.
Aum Shanti.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Nitin Mehta
Why the glum face? And sort out those dark circle around the eyes…what you been eating?
May 4th, 2007 at 3:14 am
RELIGION IS SOMETHING THAT COMES WITHIN A PERSON.
Does every so called PANDITS, who are vegetarian and preach RAMAYAN AND GITA follow what they preach?
For me its better to eat meat and follow the religion the right way than not to eat meat and follow the wrong way.
Karma se hai sabki pechan.
May 4th, 2007 at 3:16 am
JAI SHRI KRISHN
May 4th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Prachi Garodia, M.D. Says:
[Ayurveda, the Ancient vedic wisdom of life and longevity, recommeded meat as Human diet only for specific conditions, for e.g, in case of weakness, anaemia, tuberculosis, or to regain strength from a severe illness]
Sorry but this is total distortion of the Vedic texts in order to justify meat eating. Can you give us some references which are in sanskrit in order to back these wild claims of yours? I am a vegetarian and am well versed with AyurVeda - this indeed is news to me.
The article is totally pathetic as Hindus have far more to worry about than who eats meat and who doesn’t. Lets not waste our precious time arguing over matters of little importance.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:17 am
[the only character to be mentioned eating emat was Ravan himself!]
If you actually delve further into the original texts of Ramayana you will be shocked to find that Ravana too was a vegetarian. He was the son of a Brahmin Rishi called Vishrava and the great grandson of Rishi Pulatsya who were also against meat eating and practised austere penances. Ravana was brought up in his father’s ashram and he himself was against slaughter of animals. There are many examples behind the history of Ravana how he despised meat eating and was a Rishi himself through performing severe penences for Lord Shiva while living off a simple diet of fruits. Please folks, lets get real here.
May 4th, 2007 at 7:48 am
[However, my own personal view is that, taken in context, the meat-eating verses in Valmiki Ramayana actually support the view that Rama did indeed eat meat.]
This is mere speculation. Please learn sanskrit first and then delve into the verses in order to comment on Lord Rama, rather than reading interpretations made by Christian missionaries and the likes of Max Muller. Also why did he then eat only fruit when visiting Shabri Bheel’s ashram? Why not a Sunday roast?
May 4th, 2007 at 8:30 am
DEV ANAND, May 4, 3.14 pm. “For me it is better to eat meat……Karma se hoti hai sabki pechan”.
Is meat eating one of the Karmas prescribed for a Hindu that you are saying so? In Gita, chapter 16, Bhagwan Shri Krishna has clearly laid down ‘What is to be done and what is not to be done, Shastras alone ought to be your guide: Tasmaat shastram praamanam te kaarya a-kaarya vyavasthitau.’
So, if one can show that Shastras have prescribed meat-eating, then and only then can it be condoned or accepted for a Hindu. Till then, it would be only individual choice and a weakness for taste of the tongue. Vedas clearly prohibit meat eating.
A. Singh has spoken the truth. Guru Granth Saheb clearly prohibits meat eating in the following verse: ‘Pir paighambar auliyaa, sab marne ko aayaa/ Naahak jive na maariye poshan ko kaaya//’. Meat and alcohol both are specifically prohibited for a Sikh. The verse, ‘Maans maachhali suraa paan…’ is proof of it.
It is also news that Guru Gobind Singh was a meat-eater! All the Gurus were pure vegetarians. Is Bhakti (and God realisation) possible with such a diet? If one insists that Guru Gobind Singh used to eat meat, he should provide the testimony?
May 4th, 2007 at 9:23 am
“Nitin Mehta
Why the glum face? And sort out those dark circle around the eyes…what you been eating?”
If he wasn’t a vegetarian I would say he’s been eating pandas..
May 4th, 2007 at 9:31 am
“The article is totally pathetic as Hindus have far more to worry about than who eats meat and who doesn’t. Lets not waste our precious time arguing over matters of little importance. ”
Actually this article is not pathetic because it brings out the truth how veggie Hindus discriminates against the meateating Hindus who are the majority.And by this fascist attitude will only help to push meateating Hindus in the arms of other religions.
May 4th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Namaste people . After going through most of the letters I come to a conclusion that vegetarians are more on the attack mode and irate towards the non-vegetarians. Jeisa ahaar aisa vartan is not how they are behaving and in any case if vegetarians were so humble and non-violent people, can they explain the killings in Gujarat, or are they going to blame it on the non-vegetarians ( who they already demonise )? This is not the Hinduism I know of , the Hinduism I know is a liberal and a democratic faith of hundreds of beliefs and fused cultures that evolved in Bharat. The Adivasis of India are the true and original peoples, are non-vegetarians and at the same time Hindus. If and when these people and those of the so called lower classes are converted to other faiths like christianity and islam hurts the Hindu back sides , are quick to give them a Hindu identity, how very facilitating and hypocritical of Hindus (vegetarians included). All humans and living things have a place on this planet and that is what our Puranas say. Humans have evolved as omnivorous beings and they can chose what ever is available to them as their diet . Vegetarians have no right to impose their custom on the non-vegetarians and vis-a-vis . The greatness of Hinduism lies in its freedom of choice be it food or otherwise . Jai Shree Krishana .
May 4th, 2007 at 11:36 am
namaste
I agree with most Dev says or writes. We have far more important issues at stake. So let us concentrate on real issues that unite us rather than divide us.
Bhupendra
May 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
From Nitin Mehta
So having seen my picture let me add I have not been to a doctor for 15 years. The glum face?? At the plight of billions of animals killed for meat eating Hindus!!! There is nothing more important facing Hindus then meat eating-it goes to the core of what this Dharma has stood for, for a long time. Now those Hindus who want to eat meat can continue stuffing themselves–all we are saying is that do not justify it on religious grounds and do not spread the falsehood that Hinduism allowed meat eating.
Ahimsa towards those who are at our mercy is the core value that seperates religions of Bharat from other religions—we will not let meat eating Hindus blur that difference. Every medical opinion says that meat eating is the cause of most diseases–cancer, heart, blood pressure and many others. Only 200 years ago Japan was completely vegetarian and then this taste for animal flesh took over—now the Japaneses are seeing the rise of so called western diseases. The Oceans of the world are being decimated by huge trawlers chasing depleting fish, –for health, environment, and feeding the rising human population vegetarianism is a must. Our Sages and Sadhus saw this thousands of years ago–that is why vegetarianism is the greatest gift of Hinduism to the world—it is such an important issue that no one should philosophise and tell us to keep quiet about this issue —without compassion our Dharma is doomed. Of course Shivaji was a great Hindu –even if he ate meat ( and this mere speculation by Hindu meat eaters), but if he did–even he should/ would be told that for making spiritual progress it is essential to give up eating other animals.
Nitin Mehta
May 4th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Yeah, lets tear down the pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger from our walls and put up pictures of the vegetarian Gandhi.
Because ultimately, we all want the bulging muscles and ultimate physique of Gandhi.
May 4th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
BTW, Japan is still #1 on the healthiest countries list.
Maybe they’re doing something right.
May 4th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
I am a hindu, yes I eat meat but not beef. It is a personal choice to eat what you want. Why should people dictate who is a real hindu and who isn’t because of vegetarianism. Frankly I feel it is not anyone’s business but the person consuming it. Okay I believe it’s bad practice to eat beef. Though if a friend of mine does it and is a hindu it’s their choice not mine.
Everyone should respect other people’s opinions, beliefs and practices, (even if you don’t agree).
May 4th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
“Shivaji was a great Hindu –even if he ate meat ( and this mere speculation by Hindu meat eaters), but if he did–even he should/ would be told that for making spiritual progress it is essential to give up eating other animals.”
This is absoulute nonsense because fighting for Dharma is the greatest spritual progess and not eating veggies and singing bhajans and doing nothing..You should be thankful to those meateating Hindus who saved your ancestors from being persecuted or otherwise you yourself would be tucking into your roast beef on sundays.This shows you yourself do not have understanding of Hinduism and its history.
May 4th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Guys, I am so sorry, but you are all acting like total idiot! WHat is wrong with you people? why cant u get of people’s backs? and Dev, i respect you alot, i to eat meat, and i am no less a hindu. as for you others preaching about you beloved bapu, he is useless and a mistake to india’s nation. I would much rather have stayed under british rule than to have mohandas karamchandra ghandi speak a voice for ALL of us that doesnt speak ALL of our views.
I know some of you will look at my comment and think krrish you have absolutely no respect for anyone. But my response is, i have respect for those who deserve it, and gandhi, he deserves nothing but a million withered roses! you might not understand me by this.None of you should be hating on Dev or me or anyone else, you let us do as we blimey please, get over youself, i would rather eat meat than to have a vitamin B12 difisioncy and iron defincy. I have absolutly no idea why you cant just let us do as we please! anyway, me saying this wont make a change to you gndhi lovers and meat eater haterz…. WE PURE HINDUS AT HEART, and you cant tell me you are pure unless you realy are. even bhramins now days aren’t pure either! so dont consider yourself pure unless you are!
May 4th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Kalyan Sarkar Ji, I have read your following coments and would appreciate if you could supply me the supportive evidence from the Valmiki Ramayan , or if any other writer can let me have their views regarding Kalyan Sarkar’s coments:
Lord Rama, during his exile of 14 years was a regular consumer of pork. This is written in Valmiki Ramayana. Lord Buddha’s last meal was pork. Guru Govind Singh advised Hindus to stop take Halal meat (meat of animal killed according to Islamic or Jewish Laws) and used to say that those Hindus who haven’t eaten pork are not Hindus at all.
Further to above , I also have question for another writer Mr. Krrish:It was said in the Ramayan, Ram had eaten buffalo’s whilst living in the wild.
I would like to have supportive evidence from the Ramayan as well.
May 5th, 2007 at 2:31 am
mr. nithin mehta you have run away with your tail tucked between your legs.
Care to explain why there are health benefits to eating fish and why Japan is still the #1 healthiest country?
May 5th, 2007 at 8:08 am
UNA VANDRA: “Frankly I feel it is not anyone’s business but it is the person consuming it.” Krrish: “I dont understand why you cant just let us do as we please.”
What I have found after following the debate is that the objectors are not objecting to the right of meat eaters practising their choice, but to their saying that it is a Hindu practise and trying to argue that it is not prohibited in Hindu Dharma.
When we say, we belong to one particular designation, club, society or ‘religion’; it means we have signed and accepted its rules, regulations and modes of conduct as well. The members, therefore, have to prove by their conduct that they were trying to follow them.
What the brothers on the other side are objecting to is not the right or liberty of the meat-eaters to make their choice but to the description that meat eating is very much a Hindu religious practice and to show that when they go even to the extent of arguing (of course, without providing any proof thereof) that even Maryaada Purushottam Bhagwan Shri Ram was a regular eater of pork during his exile’, or, that He even used to eat buffaloes during that period!’
And it is not right.
May 5th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
I think diet a personal choice, and find it slightly bemusing how people on both sides can become so passionate. Everyone seems to be caught up in scriptural references, the diets of well-known figures, oversimplifying generalisations, and sometimes absurd comparisons. It’s a dead end.
The only other thing I’d like to add is that Mr. Nitin Mehta looks fit and healthy to me.
May 6th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Ranjeet: It annoys me people trying to fit Hinduism into an “Abrahamic” kind of straight-jacket, or even a “club”, with rules and regulations.
Now at this point, some people will accuse me of making Hinduism seem like a random hodge-podge where anything goes. But that isn’t my view, or intention to convey. The way I see it - Hinduism deals with life in all its wonderful complexity, and deals with people at all stages of development, and society at various stages. At such, there are no simple rules and regulations that could fit all people at all times - including vegetarianism. The very idea is absurd.
In the Mahabharata it says quite a few times “Morality is a subtle thing”. It isn’t black and white. There is a story in the Vana Parva about a sage names Kaushik, in the Mahabharata, who despite being an ascetic had to eventually learn true dharma and duty from a butcher in Mithila. Initially the sage was shocked that he had been sent to a butcher to learn dharma, but when he saw the words and dutiful lifestyle of the butcher, he accepted the butcher as a great man who had a lot to teach.
Even though I don’t really like the was the meat-eating crew have been debating or arguing (for the most part no doing yourselves any favours), the people who are arguing that all meat eaters are ignorant, un-Hindu or any such thing are the really deluded ones here. Are you going to deny such teachings in our religion that show that virtuous people can be non-vegetarian as well as vegetarian? I want comments from you lot who hold to this hardcore view DIRECTLY tackling the tale of Kaushik and the butcher.
May 6th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
From Nitin Mehta
Rajesh poses an important question: Why did the sage accept the butcher as a Guru? The greatness about Mahabharat is that it is said that there is no human emotion that has not been covered in Mahabharat. Accepting a Guru is about being humble and defeating the ego. Even Ram and Krishna accepted a Guru even though they were God. The moral of the story here is that we should be humble enough to learn from any one–even a butcher. In the Bhagvatam there is a story of Jada Bharat—he was not considered very intelligent-he was given the job of carrying the king on a palanquin –as he walked he did not walk in a straight line–the king admonished him—he said ‘ can’t you even walk in a straight line’? Jada Bharat said that he was trying to avoid the insects on the ground. The king fell to his feet. He said, ‘ you are the most learned’–you are my Guru. Looking at the Mahabharat there are innumerable examples that all the main characters were vegetarians– including Lord Krishna–the Mahbharat says that, one who kills an animal, one who sells its meat, one who prepares it and one who eats it will be liable to the sinful Karma. It is said to be born a Human is a rare event and to be a born a Hindu is priceless because you have all the Sanskars to help you to get out of the cycles of birth and death and go back to Gods kingdom. Meat eating Hindus please try and kick this taste for animal flesh –let the compassion hidden in the depth of your consciousness arise and you will begin to see this world in a different way.
Nitin Mehta
May 6th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
“The only other thing I’d like to add is that Mr. Nitin Mehta looks fit and healthy to me. ”
Well it could be my Punjabi or meat eating prejudices influencing my judgement but he definitely doesn’t look fit or healthy to me .I wonder what the others think ?
May 6th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
“It is said to be born a Human is a rare event and to be a born a Hindu is priceless because you have all the Sanskars to help you to get out of the cycles of birth and death and go back to Gods kingdom”
That itself shows you have no understanding of Hindu philosophy because the whole intention of doing good is not to think you’ll get a first class ticket to the heavens.I see you have quoted Sri Prabhupada several times when this is same person who also said that women have an eight of mans brain or man hasn’t gone to the moon.There’s plenty more gems that can also be pulled out.You also claim that Gandhi a vegetarian was the cause of India’s freedom that’s even more ridiculous as there were many other freedom fights who contributed to the struggle like Subash Chandra Bose etc.Also many were hanged. Once the British realised the army and the navy were going to also join the freedom movement they decided it was time to leave .So let’s not get taken in by the film Gandhi.And what else did the freedom lead to ? over a million Hindus and Muslims died so that proves that Ghandi ahimsa was a total failure.Go and read the history books before promoting some outdated fantasies.
You want to believe that every great Hindu was a veggie in the past then that’s up to you and that’s your choice but in reality we know that many great Hindus also ate meat and for most Hindus that has never been a problem apart from all these narrow minded sects of Vaishnavas and Jains.
May 6th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
There’s a point of logic some people fail to see.
Vegetarianism making someone a “good” Hindu does NOT imply that meat-eating automatically makes someone a “bad” Hindu. (The quotation marks are there because the nature of Sanatan Dharma is itself open to debate.)
So there is a middle ground. You can have legitimate personal reasons for being vegetarian without trying to drill them into others. Many of the commentators here either believe there are no such legitimate reasons or that ordering strangers to change their diet is perfectly reasonable.
I don’t see a bridge between these views and therefore, like Satya, suggest that the administrators should close this discussion to end the mudslinging from both sides.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Hehehe Nitin Mehta thanks for posting your picture, you proved my point. Yes i agree Dev he looks totally unfit and unhealthy. Just from this photo you can see he lacks essential vitamins and minerals, imagine how unfit he really is if he looks like this in a photo. Those of you who have heard him give his boring talks will know.
The only person that looks good in your photo is Swami Ramdev, its good you had him on there, now stick it on your fridge and have him there for motivation. So every time you get tempted to go to the fridge to get your barrel of ice cream this picture will reminder you
Jai Shree Ram
May 7th, 2007 at 1:31 am
Many here have claimed that Hinduism has no strict code of ethics regarding such things as meat-eating, and that meat-eating does not make one less of a Hindu. (I suppose they would also say that drinking alcohol, smoking, gambling, engaging in sex outside of marriage, etc. are also not against Hindu Dharma, but that is outside of the topic, so I’ll leave it be.) Let’s grant for the sake of argument that they are right. “Hinduism does not dictate diet.” Fine.
Does this really make the meat-eater feel better when he remembers that he has taken the life of another creature and its flesh for his meal? It may satisfy his stomach, but does it satisfy his conscience? Does he feel like a morally good person - that he is fulfilling his Dharma to the best of his ability - while he is chewing on an animal’s flesh because “it is not expressly forbidden in scripture”?
I can’t help but see all the arguments used by meat-eaters here as attempts to ease their consciences. “If I didn’t eat meat, I might suffer!”. Well, I suppose it really is justified then, isn’t it? It is certainly better for another creature to die than for a human to have a poor complexion or thin limbs. After all, that is what our scriputes say, right?
“Compassion for all creatures - unless, of course, you can benefit from them suffering.”
Maybe I’m in the wrong discussion, but for me, it’s not so much a question of Hinduism or not - it’s simply a question of humane behaviour.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Dear Jay Govinda,
We’re releasing this long post of yours only this time as you claimed it took you two hours to write but please in future can you and the others keep your messages short and to the point because we have to check and read all the posts that come in and then after editing the more normal ones we then let them through while the very long and nutty ones we dont release.So make the job easy for us .
Thanks
Balraj
Admin
Dear brothers and sisters on the path of Life,
this issue of vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism is not so shallow. The trend of the day is to become a materialist, not a spiritualist. If you follow any rules and regulations, you are often looked upon downwards … because you don’t belong to the majority. Among fools, ignorance is bliss. This non-vegetarianism is Western influence on pure Indian culture in this age we are living, challenged by the non-virtueous atmosphere of this Yuga. Originally only tribals (adivasis, who are surely lovely people no doubt) indulged in meat-eating in Bharata-varsha. A major effect upon Indian or Vedic culture arrived at the time of invasions by Moghuls and British. They brought with themselves, along with their own lower standards regarding spiritual and material life, many habits and ways of living categorized as unwanted by the Indian people inhabiting this country at that time. Meat-eating is the most prominent among all these, and unfortunately propagated worldwide by massmedia.
To be or not to be - a vegetarian or non-vegetarian ? Well, in fact Indian religious thinking doesn’t really recommend fault-finding as an appropriate attitude to others. Still, simply to shed light on this matter from my perspective as a foreigner born in a meat-eating country, where most of the populace eats whatever they like, and only a small minority eats vegetarian food, I anyway try to express myself, to honour the topic under discussion. Surely vegetarianism is freedom from violence accrued by meat-eating, and it’s a part of the principle of ahimsa, which freed India from the rule of British Empire under guidance of Mahatma Gandhi. It’s also freedom from karma, the reactions piling up on the unfortunate soul entangled in this bad habit called non-vegetarianism.
The question is, Why would I like to cause suffering to another living entity, just to enjoy myself ? Just to get so-called enjoyment, some by-passing sensation on my greedy and relentless tongue, we are ready to let butchers kill an other living entity. But do we or anybody else have the right to kill any living entity, created by God who gave him life ? Surely He has given that life for the living entity, whether he is in the form of human being, or an animal. We are more fortunate than souls embodied in the forms of an animals, but does that mean we should exploit those in an inferior position ? And use them for our selfish enjoyment ? That kind of assumption would clearly belong to the category of violence, which on the other hand is based on matsarya, or envy towards that other living being.
So many things could be said about this. But to try to make it short, nowadays people want Ram-rajya without Ram, and religion without rules. How will a meat-eater go to heaven, what to speak of going to any higher realm beyond this universe, for example beginning from Vaikuntha ? That facility is supplied only in this world on this planet … for those who are not willing to break out from the Samsara-chakra, the cycle of birth and death, which is the actual goal of Sanatana-dharma, and on which again the entire hinduism is based. Surely that kind of person doesn’t have enough qualification to join the denizens of heaven in his or her next life, nor to become an associate of Narayana in the spiritual world. Among them, only Garuda is a meat-eater … (eating snakes). For sure, a meat-eater will remain stuck in this earthly plane or the darker realms down from here.
We have all traces of our past lives in our consciousness and this human life is given to us for re-newing our samskaras, for approaching the Divine. Among animal species of life there are no reactions for eating anything you like. Whatever we eat and do, creates a samskara into our heart, which remains there till our next life. If we wish to eat meat of other living entities, we will have to take birth among a suitable species of life, accommodating that kind of desire. Mother Nature observes us while we are passing through this world, and due to her affectionate and understanding nature, she will bestow to an ignorant soul wanting to remain a meat-eater a suitable body, for eating meat, in some lower species of life. Human being is supposed to be compasionate and sustain his life on vegetarian food which develops within him finally a higher consciousness, whereas eating meat will develop within us lower qualities and mental states of animals. You are what you eat, as the well-known saying goes … The energy and consciousness of plants and vegetables is more subtle and refined than that of animals, and thus vegetarian food is more suitable for nourishing humans.
Mr. Patel was surely liberal minded, thinking it’s alright for followers of hinduism, to eat non-vegetarian food. Still, although having good wishes for him and appreciating his courage in bringing this contraversial topic into direct public attention in this modern Media, he is not an authority of any level regarding the Vedas, which have descended to Humanity from higher realms of existence and which have not been concocted by the limited brain of some ordinary mortal being but by the immortals, the perfected beings, who are beyond our conditioned tendencies to make mistakes, to be in illusion, to cheat others, and to have imperfect senses. Why to call ourselves followers of Sanatana Dharma, if we want to be something less than that ? Sanatana Dharma means to follow that which is eternal, and what is more eternal than Love, having as her tender maidservants qualities like compassion and non-violence towards all forms of life.
Our limited human understanding based on our narrow perception of reality of this universe which is not man-made, and in which the laws also are not man-made, is not enough to authorize illegal action. If we are sentimentally inclined, we simply see some cute girls doing and eating whatever they like, and consider the boy chastising them to be very narrowminded, and slightly due to our natural attraction to the opposite sex, we might defend them in a heroic mood (virya-rasa) and say it’s alright. But an actual well-wisher will speak truth, regardless of the public opinion. Public opinion is not basis of justifying an improper action.
A doctor is using his knife not to hurt the patient, but to cure him from his disease, pain and suffering. However a butcher, who with his fatal instruments is serving the desires of the meat-eater outside of his purview, is doing his job, and getting reactions of his deeds in this life as well as in the next; also the person selling the meat, the one preparing it, the one serving it in the restaurant, and the one eating it from his plate, and the ones ignorantly encouraging and supporting these actions, will all get a fraction of the reactions, their individual share in the eyes of Yamaraja. Let us have mercy, love and compassion towards all living entities in this world, and then only shall we get blessed in our life. “Prema pum artho mahan”
If we speak about
May 7th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Dear Hindu Voice, please let me know if you received my letter regarding the topic “the meat-eating in hinduism”. I sent my message after writing it for quite some time, and it’s very unfortunate if it didn’t get through, after writing it for about two hours. It simply vanished from the screen after I pressed “Submit comment” … I hope you received it, and if so, kindly let me know.
yours sincerely,
Jay Govinda
anandamaya@yahoo.com
www.SpiritualJourneysInIndia.com
May 7th, 2007 at 9:10 am
‘’Actually this article is not pathetic because it brings out the truth how veggie Hindus discriminates against the meateating Hindus who are the majority.And by this fascist attitude will only help to push meateating Hindus in the arms of other religions.'’
Oh my…so so so sorry for voicing my opinions on here. I found it pathetic and thats my view since it brings out nothing of pure facts. Or do we have to be scared of voicing any opinions at all??
As for your labelling all veggie Hindus as discriminating against meat-eating Hindus and having fascist attitudes, these are your own opinions and fantasies. I for one, being a vegetarian couldn’t care less if any Hindu was to go roast a donkey or a rat and have it for his/her dinner…its his stomach thats having it…thankfully not mine. Believe me, majority of Veggie Hindus are happy with their balanced traditional Indian thaali - they couldn’t care less about who eats what at the end of the day. It would be nice if you stop labelling veggies in this way since not ALL veggies behave in the way you have labelled them.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:22 am
‘’I want comments from you lot who hold to this hardcore view DIRECTLY tackling the tale of Kaushik and the butcher.'’
Never mind about Kaushik, what about Valmikiji? He ate meat and was a hunter also until he reformed his ways in order to gain spiritual knowledge
and the first Rishi to obtain Divyadhrishti from the Gods themselves. Sanatan Dharma is not for frowning upon those who eat meat etc but instead it encouraged those to raise their status spiritually and physically to that of a Brahmin no matter what Jati or Varna one was from. Sanatan Dharma encourages simple living and high thinking. Please can you all understand this much at least?????
May 7th, 2007 at 9:30 am
‘’in any case if vegetarians were so humble and non-violent people, can they explain the killings in Gujarat, or are they going to blame it on the non-vegetarians ( who they already demonise )? This is not the Hinduism'’
Excuse me mate, where does Gujarat come into this? So lets get into Kashmir and the genocide of thousands of Kashmiri Hindus and Pandits. As a veggie, I can explain Gujarat killings of HINDUS. And you? Can you explain Muslims going on killing sprees of Kashmiri Hindus? So what is Hinduism to you then?
May 7th, 2007 at 9:41 am
‘’Meat is from a living thing, so are plants they too have and had life and its cut (killed) then washed and cooked, so in short a hindu is not a hindu if he or she has even eaten a plant as it was living too. Think'’
Yeah, we heard all this so many times that its becoming boring to keep reading the same arguements.
Look, its like this. Animals have a far more advanced nervous system etc and are walking, roaming living beings that actually DO feel pain, whereas plants actually produce the vegetables ie tomatoes, aubergines, peas, beans, that can be plucked from the plant itself without having to destroy the entire body. So in short, no its not killed. Ask me, I know. I’ve seen goats being slaughtered in Kenya and boy does that poor creature cry out when being slaughtered but I have yet to hear any plant shrieking out in pain when we pick the fruits from them..think ….
May 7th, 2007 at 10:47 am
From Nitin Mehta
I challenge Dev to tell me of any Hindu sect which does not tell that the
ultimate goal of life is to get out of the cycles of birth and death. Hindu dharma is not a fashion statement or a label-it is a practicaal guide to understanding the purpose of life and avoiding falling in the one of the millions of life froms in our next birth. He then shifts the debate to attacking Srila Prabhupad who single handedly brought
the glory of Sanatan Dharma to the world. This is a man who defeated
scientists and scholars and pursaded millions to take to chanting the glories of Krishna from hippies to the Beatles. This is a man whose books are considered a standard reference in the prestigious universities of the world–at the age of 70 this man came to USA and was even not sure where his next meal would come from–today his isciples feed tens of thousands of people all over the world–they distribute the Bhagvad Gita all over the world-even in Muslim countries—Dev needs to be a bit more humble before he attacks such a great man by selectively using one quote.
He then attacks Gandhi—it is ironic that those who were sitting on the fence–while Gandhi was mobilising the millions in India to fight for independence–these people accuse Gandhi of creating Pakistan or even hold him resposible for the massacres that took place after Independence. Where were the likes of Dev or his idelogical brave meat eating Hinus to put up a fight? He makes the ridiculous statement that once the army and navy stood up it was time for the Brotosh to go. The army and navy were firmly uder the control of the mihty British empire-Gandhi said again and again that he would see the division of India on hod death. No one could have prevented the creation of Pakistan—-it is easy for those who did little to fight for India’s independence and set on the fence to say that India should not have been divided.
May 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Actually Gandhi was pretty useless to the freedom movement. Veer Savarkaar was instrumental in the british leaving. During world war 2 Veer Savarakaar asked Hindus to join the British Indian army enmasse. Hindus joined in such numbers that the Hindus became more then 60 percent of the British Indian army. After world war 2 they started to mutiny within. Google the Bombay Naval Mutiny of 1946. The British were in no mood to fight an armed forces that it had trained and were tired after such a long and exhausting war. The british empire never recovered their military superpower status after world war 2. Furthermore unline world war 1, Indian soldiers, sailors and airmen were trained in skilled positions as well, there were many ammunition and war production facilities in India as well. Since the India army was skilled and not just cannon fodder it had become a force to be reckon with.
That why the brits left india, not because of that traitor Gandhi.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
‘’while Gandhi was mobilising the millions in India to fight for independence–these people accuse Gandhi of creating Pakistan or even hold him resposible for the massacres that took place after Independence.'’
Well….Gandhi can hardly be the one chosen to represent all veggies…please do us a favour! Can we abstain from stereotyping ALL veggies and making them the ‘Gandhi’ types?
Yes Gandhi may have mobilised millions in India but to take a slap on their other cheeks..hehe! In fact it was initially Bose, Savarkar & Chandrashekhar Azad etc who were busy mobilising Indians to stand up and fight, while Gandhi made sure the Indians got beats from the British Imperialists. Don’t forget the Indian National Army which was formed well before Gandhi and his various yatras on foot.
May 7th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
‘’This is a man who defeated
scientists and scholars and pursaded millions to take to chanting the glories of Krishna from hippies to the Beatles. This is a man whose books are considered a standard reference in the'’
Yeah..and this is a man who equates Jesus and Allah as the same as Krishna in his teachings. In fact he has turned the image of Sanatan Dharma into a bandwagon for hippies and the like. Can you really take him seriously?
May 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
‘’You cannot out caste some one only by what they eat, i am a Bramin and i eat meat so does that outcaste me too!!!!!!'’
No but go check out what the ancient scriptures have to say about the definition and qualities of a Brahmin. And that doesn’t mean by birth only.
May 7th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Dr Ranjit Singh can you please keep your messages short and to the point from now on .
Thanks Balraj
Admin
RAJESH JI: 6th May at 12:28 am.
When we talked of a Scriptural basis of our Dharma, you criticised us saying, “Ranjeet: It annoys me people trying to fit Hinduism into an Abrahamic kind of straight-jacket, or even a club with rules and regulations”. But then, at the same time, you also said, you were not “making Hinduism seem like a random hodge-podge where anything goes”! We wonder, what else would it be if there were no rules or sources of authority?
The meaning of the word Dharma is duties as well. They have to be enshrined somewhere for one to know or conform his life in accordance with. Even Mithila’s butcher has said: ‘Shruti Pramaano Dharmah’ (209/2), ‘Vedoktah Paramo Dharmo Dharma Shastreshu Cha Aparah.’(207/82).
Deprecating meat eating, he said, “There is no dharma in eating meat, dharma is in doing dev-pooja, atithi-seva, feeding family members and doing pooja of Pitrus” (208:5). He also told the ascetic, I neither kill animals, nor do I take meat. (Na bhakshyaami maansani. 206:33) I sell it, because it is my family profession born as I was in a family of ‘vyaadhs’ (9). This is in exact consonance with Bhagwan Krishna’s teachings: “It is better to die performing one’s own Varna Dharma than to take on another’s as this leads to ‘shreya’ or moksha.(Gita3:35)
Mahabharatta does say, “Morality is a subtle thing”, but it also says it is the highest Dharmah. The ‘butcher’ of Mithila also said the same. Manu Smriti too echoes it when it propounds ‘Aachaarah paramo dharmah’ (1:108). This ‘aachaarah’ has to be followed constantly and diligently and never abandoned.
“Are you going to deny such teachings in our religion that show that virtuous people can be non-vegetarian as well as vegetarian? I want comments from you lot who hold to this hardcore view DIRECTLY tackling the tale of Kaushik and the butcher”.
Well, brother, we have tackled it directly from the above tale when we quoted Butcher’s own words in which he said he was not a meat eater. It is un-understandable, how can one be labelled virtuous when he broke moral and religious laws? Kind regards.
May 7th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Like VD Savarkar said, the independence of india can’t be attributed to a few individuals (like this mehta says gandhi). it is the result of of the commoner (meat eater or not) who prayed to his family deity everyday. youngsters who went the the gallows to see their motherland free were called the greatest veeradhiveers by savarkar.
all these vegetarian nazis are facists who will pretty soon be declaring different sects of hinduism as being heretical. soon shaivas and shaktas and the like will be deemed non-hindu and fake-hindu by these rascals.
May 7th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
“I challenge Dev to tell me of any Hindu sect which does not tell that the
ultimate goal of life is to get out of the cycles of birth and death.”
I’m not denying that but I trying to point out that if only reason to do the right thing is because your mind is thinking about moksha is selfish.It should be for the sake of doing good and not a first class ticker to the heavens.
“He then shifts the debate to attacking Srila Prabhupad who single handedly brought
the glory of Sanatan Dharma to the world. This is a man who defeated
scientists and scholars and pursaded millions to take to chanting the glories of Krishna from hippies to the Beatles”
Actually Vivekananda and Yoganada and many more had already gone out of India way before Prabhupada but I’ve noticed you haven’t answered my questions.Do you like prababpada believe that women have only one eight of a brain of a man and do you beleive that men never went to the moon.Actually probably you wouldn’t because you wont be able to grow your turnips and potatos on the moon.You serioulsly need to go a read the history books because you definitely have no idea of Indian history or even Hindu philosophy…
May 7th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Jay Govinda says :'’Surely vegetarianism is freedom from violence accrued by meat-eating, and it’s a part of the principle of ahimsa, which freed India from the rule of British Empire under guidance of Mahatma Gandhi.'’
hehehee…the best joke I heard all day today…keep us entertained with some more please!
Since when has vegetarianism got anything to do with freedom and that too under what guidance of Gandhi? You’ve been watching too much bollywood..hehehe..
If you keep making such comments on here, we’ll soon put your name forward for the ‘Joker of the Year’ Award Nominations..hehehe
May 7th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Namaste
Nitin: I would like to say that if u feel good, energetic and healthy, not visited doctor for 15 years, I am happy and hope u will be able to avoid visiting doctor for another 15 years.
But we are all not so fortunate. As a veggie, I would love to say it is a good advert for us the veggies. But to be realistic, we all know that good health depends on many factors and balanced veggie diet is but one factor.
Some have good health genes running in the family and all family members enjoy good health well into their old age. While others suffer from diabetic, high blood pressure, asthama etc. It runs in the family. That is why GP always askes the question, “Has any one else got similar problem in your family?”
The life style also plays a big part. If u have healthy habits, play sport, go to a gym, do not drinkin in excess, don’t smoke, live a stress free family life, have job satisfaction, no financial worries, take regular holidays, all these factors keep u young looking, fit and healthy.
It is vital to understand that each subject matter, discussion point is not simply black and white. There is inevitably a grey area.
On so many points raised, both by veggie and non-veggie are right, just like the half full bottle is also half empty. It depends on one’s view point, perspective in life.
I have to admit reading all these letters, response, comments from so many intellectual and intelligent contributors, I have learnt a lot.
I did not know or perhaps forgot what I learnt as a child that Ravan was a Brahmin, a son of a rishi called Vishrava and the grandson of rishi Pulatsya, that he was brought up in an Ashram, was a veggie and against slaughter of animals? That Ravan was a nature lover and created so many parks like Ashok vadika where Sitaji was held a prisoner. He was a disciple of Lord Shiva who almost gave him the immortality. It shows we are never too old to learn.
So if some one would like to paint Ravan white, a saint, then he has enough ammunation at his disposal
On the minus point, some of the comments on Shri Srila Prabhupad and Gandhiji were in extreme bad taste. We do not have to stoop so low to make a point. If truth is on our side, even a softly softly approach will win the argument, if not then no amount of rudeness, foul language and mud slinging will make any difference.
Some one wrote that a Cheeta chases 100 gazelles. What does it prove? Nothing. No cats, cheetas, lions or tigers can chase an elephant or a rhino. If a six feet tall veggie beats up a five feet non-veggie or vice versa, does it prove, mean any thing?
In the same manner it is absolutely nonsense trying to prove who contributed most in India’s struggle to gain independence. Not hundreds but thousands fought and sacrificed their lives to fight for Swaraj, since the mutiny or rather struggle for independence from 1857 to 1947.
Even Gandhi, Sardar, Subash, nehru were small players, part of a big struggle.
I feel we have come to an for a worthwhile, meaninhful discussion on this subject. There is no point in repeating what we have already said, written beforein some 138 letters.
I would like to thank all contributors from whom I have learnt some thing, about our culture, religion and history.
Jai sia Ram.
Bhupendra
May 8th, 2007 at 6:57 am
Thanks Bhupendra Gandhiji for the well written and a well balanced post.
May 8th, 2007 at 7:28 am
SATYA JI: You had expressed your willingness to discuss in private the veracity of the translations done by some scholars of the two verses of Valmiki Ramayana mentioned by you in your communication of May 1. We, the Scholars of Shastra Dharma Prachar Sabha, would love to join you in finding out the truth. Please do contact us at live_by_dharma @yahoo.co.uk and oblige. Would you also kindly disclose the arguments of Stephen Knapp for our information?
May 8th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
“If a six feet tall veggie beats up a five feet non-veggie or vice versa, does it prove, mean any thing?”
You should have thought of that before you made funny comparisons between different species.
As for Gandhi getting us freedom, that’s a big myth created by the Congressi Indian gov’t and no thinking person will believe such nonsense and he surely had responsibility in the suffering that millions of Hindus went through in 1947, only fossilized brains ingrained with Gandhi worship still try to hide these historical truths.
Everyone knew that Ambedkar had proposed the far more pragmatic approach of a complete and orderly population exchange between the two countries which would have avoided much of the blood shed but Gandhi and Nehru decided against it and look at India today, even after partition there is no end to the massacres of Hindus by Muslims, Indians can thank Mohandas Gandhi for it.
Also Mehta cleverly tries to hide the fact that Gandhi made a pro pakistan fast whereby he forced the Indian gov’t to give Pakistan 55 crores after it just invaded Kashmir, this man is supposedly a super patriot and got India it’s independence, enuff said, this might make for good stand up comedy not serious history.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Thia is very good statement i have read in a long time. the third paragraph should be repeated as a first message because I have seen similar arguments over vegetarianism. also the science behind it making your senses more sensitive to achieve high state of meditation and memory when learning should be stressed.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Vegetarianism isnt a Hindu issue, its a general moral issue.
Firstly humans have been doing a whole lot of disgusting things and calling people that oppose it as facist and extreme.
Eg. The slave trade
People thought its normal for thousands of years, and thought they cant be judged good or bad just because they keep slaves. If someone said something against the trade sticking up for the abused and oppressed they were ostricised and demeaned.
Sure there were many legendry people throughout history that seem like really good people that did a lot of good, but they kept slaves, are they good or bad? Its a mixture right?
Animal killing is even more babaric than the slave trade. And to stick up for voiceless animals who feel pain like you and me is somehow considered politically incorrect. No one likes to hear it.
As fot the argument of killing plants. Yes everything is living to survive we need to eat living things.
However we discriminate so we eat what causes the least pain and harm to us and the environment.
People argue that killing a potatoe and an animal is the same thing just because the animal is less intelligent. So would you also say that killing a dumb child for food or a disabled person who can not think much is okay?
Ofcourse if there is no choice then murdering an animal is our only choice to survive. But most do not have that issue in this day and age.
To speak out against unnecceray killing and murder whether human or animal is not extreme.
However its up to the individual and everyone has thier own views. The ones that make sense will hopefully be heard even if it takes thousands of years.
Ive heard this hunter gatherer argument a few times, we may or may not of been hunter gatherers, in those days women were also rapped and abused aswell children etc and males used to kill each other for trivial things killing each other in tribes. Just because these things happened in the past are they good for a progressive civilised society now?
We all are respnsible for our own actions.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Dev people like you are are so low in hinduism…
you are spiriually starved, you are engrossed in your little world, pls don’t call yourself hindu it is an insult.
why don’t you join Muslim faith they can accomodate your views better.
sanatan dharma ki jai
May 11th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
“you are spiriually starved, you are engrossed in your little world, pls don’t call yourself hindu it is an insult.”
hehehe this sounds surprisingly similar to what we see missionaries say “you are in spiritual darkness and need Christ to save your soul”, what’s more insulting is cyber warrior losers like you lecturing other Hindus.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
“Dev people like you are are so low in hinduism…
you are spiriually starved, you are engrossed in your little world, pls don’t call yourself hindu it is an insult.
why don’t you join Muslim faith they can accomodate your views better.”
This proves what some us meat eaters having being saying for a long time. These type of Hindus who have these views are a total embarrassment to Hindus regardless of what they eat.So basically the majority of Hindus who do eat meat should according to Ravi Sharma should go and become muslims.
May 11th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Gopal actually cannon fodder out of you guys is much less barbaric then eating good chicken and goat curry.
May 12th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
what u eat doesn’t depict youre faith. their is so called ‘advice’ about being a ‘good hindu’ and because one 1 of the advise is not to eat meat doesnt mean you DEFINATLY shouldnt. who said eating meat is wrong anyway? there sre some hindu’s in india so are so devoted and actually UNDERSTAND the aspects of hinduism - much more than us - yet their lively hood means that they must kill fishes in order to making a living; they live near the sea and the only means of supporting their family financially. then it bring up ‘is eating an animal the same as killing an animal?’ i no lots of people who love animals and yet shudder at the thought of its death yet could easily go 2 KFC or McD’s and have a enjoyous meal.
i myself grew up in a meat-eating family but have recently become veggie (due to a totally non-religious reason may i add) and i have actually come 2 realise that in actual fact there is no need 2 eat meat.. people only eat it coz its so popular and widely available.
Back 2 the topic - i believe youre faith is determined by the self-less acts you do for your god, what ever religion u are. and if u beleive youre devotd and are happy with your religion and your actions then your shouldnt really let other people judge you on that.
this is an interesting topic which could become quite deep.
good health 2 u all
May 13th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
r. chouhan … Well said!
You have summed it well.
May 13th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
In Hindu Dharma (our Sanatan Dharma) we don’t find the use of the phrase ‘Vegetarian’ or ‘non-vegetarian’ anywhere. The one we find here is ‘Bhakshya’ and ‘Abhakshya’ i.e. ‘eatables’ and ‘non-eatables’. The Scriptures enumerate a long list of non-eatables. Everything (including stones, rocks and mountains) has life in them, because Brahm, the ‘Chaitanya’ or the ‘Chit tattva’ is omnipresent. Another term we find here is ‘Aamish’ and ‘Niraamish’.
If we shall divide the foods on the basis of vegetarian and non-vegetarian, then all vegetables and roots would become eatables; but they are not. Even garlic and onion have been enumerated among the non-eatables and have been prohibited for the ‘Traivarnikas’ and those who have taken to (or wish to take to) a life of spirituality, Bhakti and Yoga.
This term vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism, is a Western one that came into use in their society in the late eighties. It was because of this that Gandhiji had vowed not to take even milk in South Africa. He stuck to it for quite some time but gave it up on medical advice and insistence of well-wishers when he fell very ill and became very weak. It was then that he started taking goat’s milk on the plea that his vow was for cow’s milk only - and not goat’s!
May 14th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
meat eaters can never reach god
May 15th, 2007 at 10:44 am
“meat eaters can never reach god ”
Oh so you’re talking from heaven then are you ?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:40 am
harrish duggrilal , yes i am missionarry , i work for hinduism, i promote the true beliefs of hindu faith. it is a moral issue and a religous one. the bible teaches ‘thou should not kill’ , christians kill animals all the time.
Gita mentions ‘dog eaters can also receive salvation’ this reference is for you guys…….you eat dog or eat nice claen fillet of chicken IT IS THE SAME. why dont all meat eaters eat cats or foxes or rats? i tell you why beacause you have a hierachy of meat….dog eatrs at bottom chicken eaters at top.
In hinduism we also have this hierachy sattiv are at the top , giving devotion and true commitment to god.
tamasic at the bottom lazy, greedy, lustful and do what they want when they want, no order or disclipline.
please hindu brethern start to eat dog as well …then you will become true meat eaters !!!!!!!! if you cant …give up meat and cleanse the body now!!!!
jai krishna bhagwan ki jai
May 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
“Oh so you’re talking from heaven then are you ?”
More probably talking after gorging himself on pakoras along with other elitist idiots like himself who talk about how they have so much money and are no lowly taxi drivers and so on.
May 15th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
hi dev, i’m a lacto vegetarian (no meat, no eggs). i’m 5 ft 11 inches, 210 lbs. i bench press more than my body weight, do martial arts, and box. if you think i am sick and weak b/c of my diet you are wrong. the warriors in the mahabharata were all vegetarian. carl lewis who won several gold medals in the olympics was vegan. there are several body builders who have won competitions that are vegetarian. in ultimate fighting championship luke cuomo is a vegan.
yes there are malnourished vegetarians who don’t eat right. likewise there are malnourished meat eaters who have heart attacks and diabetes. your assumption is wrong when you say all vegetearians are weak.
May 15th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Ravi,
If a veggie diet could win gold medals then every athlete would be a veggie so your argument doesn’t hold . for every veggie ‘athlete’ there’s probably a 20 thousand meat eating athletes.Facts are facts that many of you veggies cant even face. How do you know the warriors in the mahabarata were veggies ?? Was you there ?
Well there are more weak vegetarians then meateaters and thats a fact so it seems that your assumptions are totally wrong..
May 15th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
“you eat dog or eat nice claen fillet of chicken IT IS THE SAME. why dont all meat eaters eat cats or foxes or rats? i ”
When I go to Korea I will definitely try the local delicacy.
“please hindu brethern start to eat dog as well …then you will become true meat eaters !!!!!!!! if you cant …give up meat and cleanse the body now!!!!”
The way you’re barking you sound like a dog yourself..
May 15th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
“why dont all meat eaters eat cats or foxes or rats”
hehehe because some cultures do not think those animals are the best for consumption, however in Aruncachal Pradesh there are certain tribes that eat rats and I am sure they will serve them to you if you want and yes Dogs are also eaten by certain cultures, maybe they should force feed dog meat to you since you are so hung up about this particular dish.
As for the rest of your BS, keep letting off pakora gas and by the way you are a no body among Hindus, it’s best for you to come out of your delusions and realise that.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:18 am
“Gita mentions ‘dog eaters can also receive salvation”
Then I’m sure Lord Krishna will accept me for eating chicken once in a while.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Vig you have have said the most valid point point …….yes bhagwan sri krishna will let you off for eating chicken ……but be a better Hindu give up.
yes they eat catsnd dogs in China…your point is????? i said why don’t you be better meat eaters..you call yourself meat eaters , but eat real meat ……Horse, Whale or deer this is real meat……. if you cant then give up altogher…you cant choose what type of meat to shove down ur gullet !!!!
yes all sorts of tribeeat meat in india and your point is????? i am talking to you on a personal level , why do YOU eat meat …forget about uneducated tribes with no money….. improve your spiritual life , your body an improve your mind and soul.
My pokara farts smell nicer then your rancid , meaty farts that stench all the room. yes i bark like a dog ……and will continue unless YOU lot give up meat.
hahaha
mera sanatan dharm ki ji
hari ram ji namaste
May 16th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
ur an idiot man. people don’t eat:
1. dogs because they’re evolved alongside man and its considered taboo to eat them in most cultures.
2. whales, because its expensive and many species are endangered. (not practical)
3. Horse, because it’s considered taboo to eat them.
I really don’t understand why NOT eating those animals would discredit us as non-vegetarians. please try using some logic and reason in your posts.
btw, i will never give up meat eating. especially with a loony like you around.
Although I have respect for Shri Krishna, I don’t believe he is supreme godhead. Maybe one day you will learn there are other traditions within hinduism that people subscribe to.
May 17th, 2007 at 8:22 am
well in my culture it is considered taboo to eat meat.
dog is not considered bad in korea or china actually its a delicacy. they regard with great occasion when they have chance to eat it. dog did not evolve around man who says ? Dog is an animal…like it or not it is also meat.!!!!!! Pets can be cows and bulls as well, they also evolve around men.
Whales are eaten and slughtered in their thousands for their meat ….so much so that it is now banned in some countires. they are being endangered due top the slaughter. the blubber is found to have rich fatty tissues very tasty. it is not expansive if you go to Norway or Canada.
Horse is very practical found common in France and all of asia’s it staple diet for Mongolia and parts of china.
you mean to say you are thinking of excuses not to eat that meat because your mind does not like the thought of putting it down your gullet.
You are trying to eat meat that you think is good meat….NO SORRY it is not happening …meat is meat….DOG , whale or chicken .
thats how i feel about meat. just like dog , you feel discomfort about dog. differetn cultures and traditions , although show you r level of hinduism .
yes there are many traditons in Hinduism and all beleive life is sacred. all life including animal life. Sri Krishna has many roops, many faces and many images , yes you can turnm to any of those dieites. sri Krishna is all male , female, spirit, animal form , material , earth, sky water , fire. if you turn to any of those form s you pay homage to our Lord.
jai sanatam dharm ki jai
Pyare vasudeva ki jai
May 17th, 2007 at 9:04 am
“yes they eat catsnd dogs in China…your point is????? i said why don’t you be better meat eaters..you call yourself meat eaters , but eat real meat ……Horse, Whale or deer this is real meat……. if you cant then give up altogher…you cant choose what type of meat to shove down ur gullet !!!!”
Excuse mate have you been just released out of a nuthouse ? I dont understand what the hell you’re trying prove with the above statement.Of course we have a choice of what meat we want to eat.All meat is real or has eating vegetables turned your brain into a vegetable ?
May 17th, 2007 at 9:07 am
“yes i bark like a dog ……and will continue unless YOU lot give up meat.”
Yes this proves it.Ravi Sharma is really a dog and deep down he’s desperate to eat some meat and chew on a bone.We should all send him some tins of dog food to make him normal again..
May 17th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
hehehehehe I don’t know the alleged health benefits of vegetarianism, but going by this thread it seems there are a lot of loonies among vegetarians here that need to be put back in the nut house, the main cases being ravi sharma and Dharmesh.
May 17th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Ravi Sharma, are you part of Is-CON? That would explain your wierdo beharviour. IS-con are follow a fake gita made by their fake weirdo leader. They only call themselves Hindu when they get caught for child abuse, sex scandal, financial scandals, and/or other investigations.
All Is-CON your either cons or your are getting conned.
May 18th, 2007 at 3:16 am
hehehehee, that ends it. ravi sharma is a bhajan singing, mentally retarded and slow Is-CON follower who have perverted the REAL message of the gita.
Mr. Ravi sharma, are you also a pedophile and fraud like Is-CON?
May 18th, 2007 at 8:12 am
woof woof to you all.
i am vegetarian dog by the way…no tin food for me …only veg…
as a dog my lord will also protect me as a dog has soul and atma…i must not be killed or harmed …this is the law in hinduism.
if you think i am a dog then think this……i am happy as a creature that will be loved…probabaly not by you lot….
i know some dogs with better brains then you lot…………dogs eat what they are given …you have a choice use it.
woof woof …..
oh and by the way , i will follow any strand of hindu i believe , thats the beauty of hinduism.
jai durga
jai krishna
om namah shivah
May 18th, 2007 at 11:35 am
mr. ravi sharma, i think you have really bad mental problems as a dog, you need to be euthanized.
May 18th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
It is those vegetarian eating hindus hou should lay off they think that because they eat greens they are somehow superior hindus. Well in my opinion they are not no one is that. But try to make them understand.
May 18th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Ravi Sharma’s wife and/or girlfriend left him for being a loser.
May 21st, 2007 at 12:53 pm
dev,
my argument was not that veggies automatically win gold medals. you didn’t read my comment, you are putting words in my mouth. you said specifically that vegetarians are weak and malnourished. look at your previous comment. no where do i say being veg will win gold medals.
my point in my comment was to dispute your argument that we are all weak. do you acknowlede that being vegetarian does NOT automatically make you weak? yes or no? if being veg makes you weak why then are there strong vegetarian athletes? this disputes what you are claiming.
2nd, how do you know for a fact there are more weak vegetarians than meat eaters? do you have global statistics to backs this claim up? the majority of people on this planet are poor and can’t afford expensive luxuries such as meat. yet it’s these very same poor people that do manual labor for 10 hours a day working in 100 degree weather. i’m pretty sure they would last longer physically than both you and me living in comfort and privilege (as we both type on our computers at our desk). so this point you bring up is moot. i seriously doubt a farmer in india who works half the day and can only eat one meal a day is weaker than you and me if he/she is able to do back breaking labor for such a long period of time.
3rd, yes athletes eat meat. there are also plenty of athletes on steroids. so if a large # of athletes took steroids does that make right? b/c of everyone else is doing it we should all follow the crowd? sounds pretty weak minded. your argument is based on following the crowd rather than on practicality or science. steroids are good for the short term, they will make someone strong but in the long term it’ll have a bad effect on their health later down the road. likewise my relatives who ate meat did become strong in the short term but later on had triple bypass heart surgery and high blood pressure. i’d rather build my strength and have my body remain strong by eating protein sources that don’t clog my arteries or raise my blood pressure or clog up my intestines. if you don’t believe in that then i can respect you veiwpoint b/c at least you’re being honest about it. but if you’re going to use this excuse that “all the other athletes eat meat so we should also” then your argument is based on following the crowd on not on scientific evidence.
you can look at arnold schwarnegger as a good example. an strong man, athletic, runs everyday but admits to eating steak regularyl. same guy had heart surgery AT LEAST TWICE! carl lewis on the other hand has had no history of medical problems.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:48 pm
“dev,
my argument was not that veggies automatically win gold medals. you didn’t read my comment, you are putting words in my mouth. you said specifically that vegetarians are weak and malnourished. look at your previous comment. no where do i say being veg will win gold medals.”
Actually Ravi you’re putting words into my mouth because I never said veggies are weak and malnourished but I was responding to all the abuse we have been getting by your veggie brethren who are claiming the a veggie diet is more healthier then a meat eating diet to which I said I know many veggies who are suffering from the same illnesses .So it goes both ways.So you can back and check my posts.
“, how do you know for a fact there are more weak vegetarians than meat eaters? do you have global statistics to backs this claim up? the majority of people on this planet are poor and can’t afford expensive luxuries such as meat. yet it’s these very same poor people that do manual labor for 10 hours a day working in 100 degree weather. i’m pretty sure they would last longer physically than both you and me living in comfort and privilege (as we both type on our computers at our desk). so this point you bring up is moot. i seriously doubt a farmer in india who works half the day and can only eat one meal a day is weaker than you and me if he/she is able to do back breaking labor for such a long period of time.
If people cant afford meat then that’s not the same thing as being vegertarian now is it ? food supplies also depend on what area most people they have access to.Hardworking Hindu fishermen eat fish just like many other Hindus who eat meat.
“ 3rd, yes athletes eat meat. there are also plenty of athletes on steroids. so if a large # of athletes took steroids does that make right? b/c of everyone else is doing it we should all follow the crowd? sounds pretty weak minded. your argument is based on following the crowd rather than on practicality or science.”
Hold why you bringing steroids into it ?The truth is most atheletes eat meat and if your vegertarian diet helped to perform better then I’m sure they would take to it.So there’s nothing to do with following the crowd.This shows you’re the one who is totally confused as you think that taking steroids and eating meat are the same thing.
“ steroids are good for the short term, they will make someone strong but in the long term it’ll have a bad effect on their health later down the road. likewise my relatives who ate meat did become strong in the short term but later on had triple bypass heart surgery and high blood pressure.”
Here again you show your weak argument as you’re trying say its because of meateating like steroids which has lead to you relatives health decline.I’ve said this already that I know enough veggies to know that they suffer from the same illnesses as any meat eater who doesn’t do any exercise would .So It goes both ways.
“ i’d rather build my strength and have my body remain strong by eating protein sources that don’t clog my arteries or raise my blood pressure or clog up my intestines. if you don’t believe in that then i can respect you veiwpoint b/c at least you’re being honest about it. but if you’re going to use this excuse that “all the other athletes eat meat so we should also” then your argument is based on following the crowd on not on scientific evidence. “
Well do you know me ? What makes you think I follow the crowd ? Just because I eat meat and that’s the real issue you have and nothing else.If you and the rest of the veggies on this thread make claims then they should back it up with real facts that would be true honesty instead of claiming your facts are scientific.But the real issue I have is that most of you think that Hindus eat meat are not even Hindus ..Upto now none of you have been able to prove that one.
“you can look at arnold schwarnegger as a good example. an strong man, athletic, runs everyday but admits to eating steak regularyl. same guy had heart surgery AT LEAST TWICE! carl lewis on the other hand has had no history of medical problems.”
Yeh and he took a lot of steroids so where does meat come into it?
And what about all the other meat eating athletes are they also having heart problems ?You seem to only be showing Carl Lewis as your example where where I can show you thousands of meateating atheletes who are also fit and fitter So whats your point.????Be honest you don’t really have a point.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:42 am
It is not correct to say that Shrimad Bhagvad Gita says ‘even a dog-eater can achieve salvation’. The word ‘dog-eater’ is found in verse 5:18 only. But the verse is not talking of salvation there. It is with reference to a ‘Gnani purush’. The preceding verse has clearly mentioned the wordf ‘Gnannir-dhoot-kalmashaah’ i.e. one whose ignorance of the Self has been removed by knowledge. Such a person, it says, sees God in a Self-realised Brahmin, a cow, an elephant, also in a dog and a dog-eater equally.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:30 am
Sanatan or eternal Hindu Dharma is the Dharma taught and enunciated to us by Brahmaji the Creator Himself, and it has come down to us in an unbroken tradition ever since. It is contained in the Vedas, Veda-angas and Upangas. According to it, body is the instrument or the means for reaping fruits of ‘Sukh-Dukh’ by the Jiva-Atma of its past Karmas. In Gita too it has been taught similarly.
It has been described therein that the bodies are ‘Nashwar’ while Jivatma is eternal. – Hence the greater importance that we find to the upliftment and welfare of the latter in our Dharma and in us. Nevertheless, it is not to be overlooked as well; because, in its absence how shall the Jiva achieve Moksha? It is on account of this very consideration that eatables and non-eatables have been enumerated and given so much importance in the Shastras and by our great fore-fathers. In my considerate but humble opinion, what is eaten by some tribe in a remote part of our country does not make it right and a Dharmic practice of the Hindus.
May 25th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Ranjit ….why is dog eater mentioned ?????
why not any other eater?
i tell you why it shows even 600 years before Christ people eat meat and even dogs……. dog eaters are mentioned last ,,,,,,,they are mentioned with low caste peoples …….
self realisation is awareness, is moksha, is salvation , is saving one self from munadane rebirth cylcle of death, yes i agree that is is indepth but the phrase is unique ‘dog eater ‘ it shows the low levels there are amongst eaters of flesh and blood.
jai sri krishan
May 28th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Wow, interesting discussion here.
Ok let me try and take this discussion in a slightly different direction.
To all you non-veg eating Hindus (of which I am one), do you feel you have a responsibility to make sure the chicken/lamb/pork you eat have been treated humanely before they are killed?
Lets not kid ourselves, the slaughter houses which chains like asda, tesco and sainsburys source their meat from treat their animals in the most disgusting and inhumane conditions.
I know people are going to say ‘oh theres no humane way to kill an animal’ but theres a huge difference in having 100s of chickens packed into tiny containers having them sh*t on themselves to having a chicken running around a 10×10 barn.
So is it a more Hindu thing to go organic or buy from a local farm and would you pay 3/4 times more or travel 5/10 miles to ensure this?
May 30th, 2007 at 9:39 am
sunny i’m sorry …….meat is meat , flesh is flesh, blood is blood, whehter you eat organic or battery ……
the animal suffers , meat eater will become the animals they have eaten , they will suffer like the anilmals at the hands of the butcher.
The animal is born to feed your stomachs , their life is at your hands ….. sorry organic or not they are getting fatter flesh for your bellys to consume.
jai shakahari ki jai
June 2nd, 2007 at 7:43 am
Respected Sir, difference in behaviour through vegetarianism is not an irretaional approach but is on scientific basis. Please read the report of Oxford in this context:
http://her.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/short/22/3/397?rss=1
Another scientific research:
earthsave.org/newsletters/ES05summer.pdf
As far as the examples are like girl and boys in University etc. etc., by showing some individuals does not prove anything. For example, everyone knows that smoking in injurious to health, but it does not mean that every smoker is unhealthy and every non-smoker is healthy. There are many smokers can be shown healthy and likewise you can show opposite. But by showing this does not mean that the scientific research is wrong or anything irrational. Same thing applies on vegetarianism and non-vegetarianism.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Eating meat doesn’t make someone a bad person - that’s just stupid. And Hindu Dharma doesn’t have any rules so it’s up to individuals to decide how to live their life.
This debate could just get hypocritical - i’ve known plenty of people who call themselves Hindu/religious and yet they’ve done things in their life that may be considered the complete opposite.
January 8th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
no need to say what’s already been said. here’s a nice article though
http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/cancer_meat_dc.html
i’ve never heard of any scientific studies claiming that carrots and spinach causing cancer, heart disease, or high blood pressure. just a thought.
also in response to “Hindu Dharma doesn’t have any rules”…that simply isn’t true. read the bhagavad gita, krishna lists out numerous rules for us to follow. also the other hindu texts such as the ramayana and mahabharata reference examples of heroes being a shining example of what dharma means.
if there are no rules in dharma then it is morally acceptable in hinduism to molest children, steal, commit human sacrifice, etc etc. it is a huge misconception for hindus to think that we can do whatever we want. i certainly don’t think a devil worshipper fits under the category of what a hindu is.
January 11th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Kalyan Sarkar: Please give references for your idea, “Lord Rama, during his exile of 14 years was a regular consumer of pork. This is written in Valmiki Ramayana. Lord Buddha’s last meal was pork. ” Where do you get these?
Yes, a lot of people in India eat meat, because they make exceptions on the day of Kali Puja and sacrifice goats. But they are Saiva, or the worshippers of Siva-Kali. Vaishnavas are not allowed to worship Kali or do animal sacrifices.
Most of the ills of Hinduism come from the Siva-Kali worshippers:
For example Sanyasis
1) They used to sacrifice even human
2) They eat half burned dead bodies
3) They walk around naked with ashes all over the body
4) They have sex with dead bodies
5) They have ritual orgies
6) They drink from human skulls
It is better to avoid these Siva-Kali worshippers, then you can have very refined Hinduism of the Vaisnavs, who promote vegetarian foods.
January 11th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Seriously A.moron did you even read the Valmiki Ramayana?
That so called vaishnava scripture where they sacrifice the horse, i don’t think they are the shaiva “baddies” you know.
And as for Rama eating meat, here:
“caturdasha hi varSaaNi vatsyaami vijane vane |
madhu muula phalaiH jiivan hitvaa munivad aamiSam || 2-20-29
29. vatsyaami =I shall live vane =in forest, vijane =bereft of people
munivat =like sage chaturdasha =fourteen varshhaaNi =years hitvaa
=leaving off aamishham =meat, jiivan =living madhu muulaphalaiH= with
honey, roots and fruits.
I shall live in a solitary forest like a sage for fourteen years,
leaving off meat and living with roots, fruits and honey”.
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/ayodhya/sarga20/ayodhya_20_frame.htm ”
“pa.nca pa.nca nakhaa bhakSyaa brahma kSatreNa raaghava |
shalyakaH shvaavidho godhaa shashaH kuurmaH ca pa.ncamaH || 1-17-39
39. raaghava= oh, Raghava; brahma kSatreNa= by Brahmans, Kshatriya-s;
shalyakaH= a wild-rodent with defensive quills; shvaavidhaH= a kind
of boar that kills dogs, wolves etc; godhaa= a lizard with
unimaginable grip; shashaH= hare; pancamaH kuurmaH ca= fifthly,
tortoise, also; panca= five [kinds of]; panca nakhaa= five nailed
animals; bhakSyaa= are edible.
Raghava, five kinds of five-nailed animals, viz., a kind of wild
rodent, a kind of wild-boar, a kind of lizard, a hare and fifthly the
turtle are edible for Brahmans and Kshatriya-s. [4-17-39]
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga17/kishkindha_17_frame.htm ”
What exactly does aamisham mean, here check the sanskrit dictionary:
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&tinput=meat&country_ID=&trans=Translate&direction=AU
Vegetarianism is a gradual development, not some “revelation” that struck so and so one day who decided that all Hindus are to be vegetarian and as such it makes little sense to justify meat eating because Rama did so just like it makes little sense to argue against it saying that Bheeshma said so & so in Mahabharata.
That ancient Hindus ate meat is the truth and the references are all over the scriptures and secular literature (eg: sangam tamizh literature) and only crackpot veggie fanatics will come up with the most contrived explanations for all these references.
“Vaishnavas are not allowed to worship Kali or do animal sacrifices.”
Thats great, so you admit that all Hindus don’t live in your little vaishnava cocoon.
so how does this square with your earlier statements saying that no priests ate meat or that animal sacrifices were not done by ALL Hindus.
January 15th, 2008 at 7:00 am
Vaishnava tradition is the refined, most sophiscated version of Hinduism as propagated by Sankar, Sri Chaitanya, Ramanuj, Madhav.
Yes, there is another tradition, the Siva-Kali worshipping tradition. However, that is the worse of Hindu culture; whatever is disgusting come from that tradition.
Yes, in ancient India some women used to committ suicide along with their dead husband. Should we reintroduce Sati system?
Yes, in ancient India low caste people would receive punishment if they even hear Vedas. Should we reintroduce that as well?
Whatever used to be practiced in ancient India was not Hinduism. People used to bet their wives in ancient India. Should we do that, because afterall Jhudhistir did that in Mahabhatara?
There is no need to support Siva-Kali worshippers. In that case we need to reintroduce human sacrifice, ritual orgy, sex with dead bodies, eating of half burned dead bodies, drinking wines from human skulls, moving around naked etc etc. These are the shames of Hinduism as it used to be many years ago but still being practiced by some in India.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I would be cautious to dismiss Kali/Durga/Mahadevi worship. I agree that killing as religious practice is rather tribal and largely himsic. But the Devi is not just about those things. Her meaning is much deeper and quite substantial to understanding reality (prakrit). No question that the understanding of Purusha is central to hinduism but a rejection of Prakrit is just as much opposed to Hinduism. If you need an outside source of inspiration to understand this, look at the mystery traditions of the west that inform the mystics of the the judeo-christo-islamic-masonic traditions (you’ll note for example that the “church” idea of christianity is a system of ritualistic canabalism and the march to mecca is a celebration of a-=brahman’s willingness of human sacrifice of his son).
No question that some things from the past need to be let go of (as you have listed). But it takes a deep process of thought and meditation before we assign sophistication as the foundation of a religious form.
hariaum
January 17th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
there are about 300 million saivas in bharat, and according to this Moron, they all engage in ritual orgies with dead bodies.
this moron dismisses hinduism in ancient india as being false and sanctions that vaishnava hinduism to be the only true path. this type of exclusivist and sectarian thinking only leads to the ultimate decay and destruction of their path which i will most rejoice because im tired of these effeminate homos spreading the gay/faggot view that hinduism’s followers consist of nothing more than a bunch of skinny, underfed, malnourished losers who have nothing better to do than chant and bang their cheap cymbals all day and pass judgment on what is pure and impure within hinduism while simultaneously sucking jesus’ lund. (im referring to vaishnava iskcon)
according to this moron, hinduism begins and ends with vaishnavism, everything else is false. so false they are, that all the major religious developments within hinduism that occured before the vaishnava bhakti tradition are false. this would include the vedas as well? first sort out your chronology you moron.
moron, also learn to interpret the epics correctly. the gambling incident is there to show that gambling is wrong, not to promote it. if you don’t even have the common sense to decipher that, then don’t discharge your trash here.
also note everyone, how moron has not replied to the references of meat consumption in a lot of hindu literature.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Listen A.Moron you clown, there is no proof that vaishnava tradition is the most “refined”, that is a subjective judgement and best kept to your ignorant self.
You were the one who asked for info about where it says that Rama ate meat so i gave the proof and also explicitly said that it’s not justification for eating meat or not eating it.
You know whats disgusting to me, self righteous pricks like yourself and your quasi islamic doctrines, I have no belief in God but I have yet to meet one Shaiva who was a narrow minded freak but I have met many so called Vaishnavas like yourself that remind me of Islamic beliefs (many of these belong to that cult CON), not that only Vaishanavs have this tendency, even many Arya Samajis tend to be that way in their monotheist mania.
Also isn’t it funny that these CONNERS Shiva is a demi god but “Jesus” is an avatar, perfect example of ass kissing clowns.
“What Jesus said are almost similar to what Sri Krishna said. Because of that many people believe that Jesus was another reincarnation of the Brahman, just like Sri Krishna.
That is the opinion of the Saunak Rishi Das, the Director of the Oxford Centre of Hindu Studies ( of Oxford University), if you look at the website of the Association of the Hindu Temples of UK.
http://thehinduvoice.com/blog/2006/12/25/celebrating-christmas-as-a-hindu/ ”
With Hindus like these we need no enemies.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
For your info mr A Moron Shiva Kali worshipers don’t do human sacrifice, ritual orgy, sex with dead bodies, eating of half burned dead bodies, drinking wines from human skulls, moving around naked etc. I should know as I am a Shiva/Devi worshiper.
You’re Indian aren’t you? I knew you pathetic Indians do anything to ape white westerners but you have taken it to another level. You’ve even remembered the details of speeches by your white missionary masters. While you’re at it why don’t you put bleach on your face and change your name to andrew or mark or whatever? Oh I forgot you sonia gandhi worshipers already do that. What is it most Indians use? Fair and Lovely?
January 18th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Just as an aside, Shivajis family deity is Bhavani, so according to these CONNER losers Shivaji wasn’t following “refined Hinduism”, bunch of brain dead retards wouldn’t even be banging their cymbals today if it wasn’t for Devi worshippers like Shivaji, the Maratha war cry was “Har Har Mahadev”, so enuf said.
To put it in the words of Kaviraj Bhushan:
“Kasihki Kala Gayee, Mathura Masid Bhaee; Gar Shivaji Na Hoto, To Sunati Hot Sabaki!” [Kashi has lost its splendour, Mathura has become a mosque; If Shivaji had not been, All would have been circumcised (converted)]. “
January 21st, 2008 at 12:30 am
a. moron the typical loser. your name suits u well.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I find that those Hindu’s who do eat meat are more religious then those who are veggie. Does anyeone know why in the Swaminaryan sect, it forbirds people to eat onions and garlic?
March 8th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I just knew this issue of Vaishnavas being superior would come up. Take a good look at what the Vedas say on the subject of meat eating A.Moron. Low, and behold the prescribe animal sacrifice and the consumption of meat. Now, in my own tradition vegetarianism is usually seen as the greater path, but meat eating is not forbidden, and just as the Vedas state, those who eat meat can offer it to God. However, it should be noted Ram didn’t eat meat. What is usually translated as being meat, will sometimes be translated as
“Indeed for fourteen years I shall actually live in a lonely forest, subsisting like ascetics on bulbs, roots and fruits and giving up royal fare”
However, he did attend and approve of a yagna, in which horse meat was offered (mind you he didn’t eat the horse’s meat).
March 9th, 2008 at 1:38 am
Many of the people here have expressed disgust and outrage towards ISKCON, but I think its primarily because emotions have run ridiculously high in this thread.
In the end, I think we’re all happy that ISKCON continues to promote the values of Sanatana Dharma and the Vedas.
I am not part of it, so don’t bash me for saying it, but if we cannot be respectful towards to ourselves (fellow Hindus) there is no chance of receiving respect from other people.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Why does all the veggie Hindu’s seem to hate on the meat eating Hindu’s? I don’t know why, I am a meat eating Hindu, but I hold my culture and respective religeous views better than my friends who ARE veggie on the basis of Hindism. I’m not gonna sit here and yap on about Ram and the buffalo, or any other aspect from religeous scriptures, but I will say, that, if you think im less a Hindu than you, simply because of the meat eating, you’re forgetting, Hinduism is meant to be an OPEN MINDED religeon. Also, you may be forgetting, veggie Hindu’s think they have an unmentioned supremacy to the meat eating Hindu’s purely because they FEEL they practice Hinduism more, but the truth is, WE know more, because we LOOKED into the REAL aspects of Hinduism after faltering in the MEAT EATING aspect.
This comes down to personal opinion, but ANY Hindu that says that i’m less Hindu than them, LOOK WHOES TALKING!!! Think what you say to your brothers and sisters, cause today you’re shouting at us, tommorow, mate your gonna all over us!! THINK people!!
March 16th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
“Many of the people here have expressed disgust and outrage towards ISKCON, but I think its primarily because emotions have run ridiculously high in this thread.”
No it’s because ISCKON have the cheek to call Mataji and Lord Shiva demigods but associate Lord Krishna with crap like allah and jesus.
Also if veggie Hindus are so concerned about morals then why do they wear leather which comes from animal skins, use medicines which have been tested on animals, or live in cities which are built over forests, grasslands, etc?
April 16th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I’m vegetarian but I too agree that no need to condemn people who eat meat. One thing we need to remember is that earlier, there was no factory farming. As a result, whatever meat eating occured was sustainable. Now with factory farming, the environmental harm has become enormous. Someone mentioned how traditionally, Hindus practice Jhatka, ie killing in 1 stroke. With factory farming, animals are fattened up, mistreated, etc. which obviously didn’t happen in the past. I saw in some documentary where some native americans kill a buffalo, pray for a minute or 2 (in respect of the buffalo) and then continue on so it clearly showed that the attitude was “I’m sorry for killing you but I’m doing it to sustain me.”
So I would say that those who eat non-veg should try to go towards organic meat and also have at least 1 or 2 days a week where one does not eat meat. Also avoiding red meat is obivously more healthy. In India also, those who do eat non-veg for the most part don’t eat it every day. Also we must remember that back in the day, there was no protein powder, etc so we can’t criticize kshatriyas, etc who ate meat coz they needed that instant energy to fight.
November 28th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Your research is totally out of context. You say that our scriptures say nothing about eating meat? Have you read the Bhagwad Gita? Have you read the Upanishads? I have and also i know many Sadhus who have shown me extracts of scriptures which clearly state that eating meat is for ‘dog eaters’ and that it is tamasic that is unpure.
Please pull your article on meat eating as it is offensive to practising Hindus who have strived to uphold the truth as spoken by Bhagwan in the Vedas in these trying times.
Eating meat is simply an excuse to be westernised, as is drinking and smoking, its simply an attempt to colonialise the Indian mind. Which in the UK and some Indian cities has worked and leads to Hindus questioning their own faith!
December 7th, 2008 at 11:43 am
If it is ok to eat meat for Hindus where are all the Hindu butchers shops???!! I only see Muslims butchers and European butchers !! Maybe some Hindu working in mcdonalds flipping beef burgers - which the majority in this deabte agree we cannot eat
I did eat meatt years ago -but gave up about 10years ago - best think I ever did !
Also if the discussion is about recarnation - you just need to ask yourself as a Hindu waht is recarnati0on mean in your religion not from a western point of view. Its up to the individual at the end of the day, and nothing is not noted and you will be judged at your tiem of death. Karma and Dharma
December 13th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Aniel Patel, What on earth do you mean by
“Please pull your article on meat eating as it is offensive to practising Hindus who have strived to uphold the truth as spoken by Bhagwan in the Vedas in these trying times”
You need a slap for that!! im not even lying!! Did you know that veggie hindu’s are the ones who think so highly of themselves, that they tend to forget about the reality of our culture?
Did you that Hindus who do eat meat avoid it during all auspicious religeous days, events, months etc… we do have respect for our culture.. dont try to bring urself up trying to seem purer form of a Hindu than we are!!
December 14th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I think we are getting quiet mixed up about Hindus and meat eating. The idea of not eating meat was largely the influence of the off shoots of Hinduism namely Jainism and Buddhism where violence and non violence was a strong pre occupation. Remember Lord Ram was a great hunter and in those good old days you did not hunt just for sports.
It is also true that meat eating is not considered ’sattvic’ diet. However it is not reasonable to consider that all vegetarian people are sattvic and that only sattvic people can be Hindus.
The great thing about being a Hindu is that you practice and follow what is appealing to your reason. With passage of time greater appreciation leads to better understanding.
It is rediculous to reduce Hinduism to a set of rules cooked by a body be it vegetarian or non vegetarian.
December 19th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
friend has given the link has not regretted that has come
December 21st, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I agree Vinod, the topic has slightly changed. But the main conflict here is that, meat eating hindu’s like myself sometimes feel we are looked down upon by vegeratains, however, we don’t think we should be. I know its not all veg Hindu’s who look down upon us, but a number do.
The main conflict is the concept that veg Hindu’s think we’d turn up to a religious event or wake up on a religious day int he morning and eat meat. They do not comprehend we avoid eating meat on religous days etc, and we by all costs avoid beef. I don’t know if these 2 idea’s apply to all Hindu’s, but i can say a significant number do avoid meat during religous times, and avoid beef all together. In all honesty, i have never seen raw or cooked beef in my life, thats how strict i am about beef.
We feel veg Hindu’s should accept these are our dietry preferences, and should be accepted.
January 6th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
If Hinduism says nothing about eating meat then why is it that the only references to eating meat come from supposed ’scriptures’ that were written during the Muslim onslaught or Colonial occupation? WAKE UP and revive our culture dont be ashamed of your heritage.
Also if eating meat is so right why do you have to pay someone to go and slaughter the animal for you? Have you tried killing an animal for yourself? Dont forget animals have maternal bonds too.
Sejal what you say to Aniel is wrong and you cannot say veggies are forgetting their culture - have you heard of the Swaminaryan Sanstha? Without these guys would India have revived the art of Mandir building? Please see the Akshardham complex in Delhi built by BAPS Swaminarayan Sanstha.
Sanatan Dharma will revive… and the truth about Vedic culture will once again be known so all this falsehood about what people think the scriptures say can be put to rest once and for all.