‘Conversion issue’ hits national press
In the last month, a long-standing and emotional issue for British Hindus and Sikhs entered the national press, namely the pressure that many Hindus and Sikhs, especially young women, undergo to change their religion to Islam.The London Metro, Daily Times, Daily Mail and ‘This Is London’, amongst several other papers carried articles on the issue of religious intimidation of Hindus and Sikhs by certain sections of the Muslim community, particularly with regards to ‘conversion pressure tactics.’
March 26th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
fantastic article yet again, HV u guys are doing a great job. 250k views wow, we need more ppl to speak up about this issue. great stuff.
March 26th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
It’s really shocking that neither NHSF and Hindu Forum haven’t really documented the evidence or provided support networks. They’re a part of this whole problem with their continuing ineptitude. Its like they have the reverse midas touch.
I think ShaktiMarg & Hindu Human Rights are the only Hindu groups that have even raised the possibility of this (as usual)…and even this was a few years back!
And i personally think they’re the best avenue for this issue to go down.
But I’m hoping that NHSF and Hindu Forum get their act together sooner rather than later because whether we like it they’re still much larger and more influential (theoretically) organisations.
March 26th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
I am white and of Christian upbringing. I worked in a university for 40 years. During that time I had to endure 2 years of a Bangladeshi student in my laboratory area pestering me to convert to Islam.
March 26th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
^^^ lol i know the feeling … i had a Bangladeshi girl trying to convert me, even though her information on her religion wasn’t her own, but just relayed to her from one of her mates (who interestingly enough refused to debate with me personally)
March 27th, 2007 at 2:33 am
Religion is a relationship between you and god. If you are born to a Hindu family, god wanted it that way. Just because some self-styled religious fanatics declares you a muslim, you are not necessarily one. Your faith is what you practice. These so-called conversions are not divine. You can ignore this so-called forced conversion and you are always a Hindu. No conversion needed.
So, the Hindus have to be alert and start educating, promoting, and protecting the Hindus and Hinduism. Let us not be cowed by some who exhibit terrorist behaviour.
March 27th, 2007 at 5:49 am
At the last census my wife filled her form and declared her self to be a Hindu. We have been married for 23 years.I was curious for I have never asked her to change her faith. She told me that bieng a Hindu was easy for it freed her to realize her potential without any demand,constrain or fear mongering. I asked my sons to go thru certain religious/cultural observances as long as they understood that dharma is never a group act, it is an individual’s quest for realization. Except for the history of violence towards Hindus by other faiths and their need to protect themselves I would have found this whole conversion conversation so 19th century. I really think real conversion is from ignorence to wisdom.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:50 am
^^^the actually notion of conversion isn’t the issue here. Agreed it has its benefits, but its not all one way and it can’t ever be.
Its forced and coerced conversion which is the focus. Where young women are harassed and bullied by others who are simply interested in the population numbers game for their ideology.
March 27th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Proselytizing is one process that keeps Islam and many other faiths ticking. What seperates Islam from all others is , they would use all dirty and evil ways to add to their numbers. It comes to me as no surprise what Natasha has gone through. My respect to her parents and her sister for supporting her in the right way ( every incident of harassment MUST be reportd to the police ). Hard line Islamists (Pakistanis and Bangladeshis mainly or for that matter even islamists of other countries) have made it their business to convert Hindu , Sikh and even White ladies, or even men, naive of hidden evil intentions of these brain washed hawks waiting to pounce upon vulnerable. Political correctness and not calling a spade a spade will do more harm than good to not only Hindus, Sikhs or Whites of this country, but to all other minorities . SIT WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND DISCUSS these issues in a language they can understand and bring awareness so they know where there are no go areas. These are people who dont make marriages and friendships for the love of it, their only intension is CONVERSIONS.
March 27th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
The author of this article has pin pointed many issues here.
Firstly, it is a well know fact that most people within the Hindu and Sikh community have had first hand experience of these forceful conversions. How many young people in our communities do you know who haven’t had muslims trying to convert them by unethical means?
Secondly, there is no empirical evidence available by the organisers of the Hindu Security Conference to substantiate this. This may be due to several important reasons. Most people will be too embarrassed to tell somebody about this, for fear of being ridiculed or made to feel weak or ashamed - or even told off for hanging around these sort of extremists.
Also, many communities would not want to bring this to the public attention for fear of retaliation - there will always be retaliation (eg awaaz saw in public and bullying in private)
Historically, it has been mostly people from the Hindu Commonwealth(polytheistic Religions) who have suffered from conversions. The biggest vitims amongs us are in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malasya Afghanistan, Kashmir, etc.. (all formely polytheistic)
One can’t help but to question whether there is a weakness in our community, which triggers such unethical behaviour from unethical people?
March 27th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
With all due respect, I think it a tad harsh to say that mainstream Hindu groups such as NHSF et al have done nothing about this kind of thing. I certainly recall that during my younger days, there was a considerable amount of work being done by such groups about this issue, both in terms of gathering case-study data and also in terms of providing or facilitating support networks.
However, what has happened to all that in more recent times, I have no idea. It may be that due to the fluid nature of NHSF (which changes each year as students come and go), they have been unable to build up a corporate knowledge and experience of dealing with these areas (in which case perhaps they need some help with this). It may be that organisation focus has changed (in which case they may need some guidance). Or it may simply be, as is my personal experience from having been involved with numerous such cases myself over the years, that such issues are by nature extremely sensitive and confidentiality necessitates an unfortunate but unavoidable lack of publicity. Whatever the reason, as I have said before, if you feel such groups are not doing something which they should, get involved and get it going yourself.
March 27th, 2007 at 11:00 pm
^^ Namaste
It is a good suggestion to people: get involved and do it yourself. That is the same advice I would give to anyone too.
But please don’t get involved in NHSF, they will do little but chinwag. I tried to get involved with them for the first year and a half of university, and found it quite fruitless, and even demoralising.
I would suggest for people to pursue the work, like me, through alternative networks - of which there are several. You could do very well to contact Hindu Voice for more information/ideas about how you can get pro-actively involved in helping in such issues.
March 28th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
I do understand and fully appreciate the frustration being expressed reference organisations like NHSF et al. However, I think it is perhaps worth considering that huge organisations like that, whilst their inertia makes it difficult to get any movement started, that same inertia means that once they get behind something, they will mow down anything that comes in their way. From my own experiences, I’d personally say that the initial banging-head-against-wall frustration of trying to get them interested and acting is well worth it in the end and saves considerably more frustration later on. With all due respect, that’s my own tuppence worth.
March 28th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Haribol
The authour of this article I must say is very clever. They stated the truth, straight to the point. No mess around and flap around the bushes. Yes it is 100% true, Muslims are forcefully converting Hindu’s into Islam. I have seen it, with my own eyes. I have read about it. I know its true, but how they do it is very sophiscated. They make you think you are their friend, one day they say see you in tommorow’s lecture, then the next. they buy you islamic books and tell you to get reading!!. To help one, its hard, and for one to stand up for themselves is even more harder, but a true Hindu will remain Hindu, even if a gun is held to your head and they say, be a Muslim or die… If this ever happened to me, I would die, yes i know it is easy to say it, but when your in the situation, you wouldn’t be this brave. But the fact is, if you die, you’ll die a PROUD HINDU, not a FAKE MUSLIM. You would die proud of your dharma, not living in false happiness.
Forced conversions is an issue that needs to be spoken about, we need to talk to people. The Hindu’s need to set up a NEW forum, a NEW Hindu Forum, where people can become members, and if you have a problem, weather its attempt forced conversion or something else, and your scared to approach a friend or family member on the issue, you can annoymously get the help and support from Hindu’s world wide. You can post your problem, and people can reply and give you advice of some sort.
I personally am not aware of a forum that does this. If you know one, please post it’s URL on here, I would like to join one. Its like a dream for me to be here for Hindu’s world wide.
Jai Hind
March 28th, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Hey Kriish - great idea .. the only thing I would say is do not bother with the Hindu Forum or the NHSF as both are useless in standing up for Hindus… Awaaz and other anti hindu forces have called these two - so called organisations “right wing hindu fanatics” and both organisations are hiding and doing nothing to protect their name. The hindu Forum is a front for the Iskcon group and the NHSF is run by a bunch of middle class north Indian pansies.
If you want to join a Hindu organisation that actually will take on the forces aligned against the Hindus in this and other countries then Shakti Marg is not bad or you can start your own..
Just don’t get drawn into the waste of space that is the Hindu Forum and the NHSF - both have had a chance to lay waste to the enemies of Hinduism and both are hiding..
shame… these are the so called representatives of the Hindus in the UK,
If that is the case… will the last Hindu to leave the country please switch off the light
March 29th, 2007 at 1:32 am
My daughter was forced to convert to Muslim by some Bangladeshis students in her University. They said’ Only few Hindus are left why don’t you people also get converted, otherwise you will have problems. Sooner or later you all will be Muslims. Though my daughter gave then an answer but they needed more than that.
March 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I got an email from an old friend about a year ago. She had found me on the net and reminisced about how during high school she had been my friend trying to convert me to christianity. She asked me if I had converted yet.
I sent a letter indicating that I was even more against the chritso-islamic sect than ever before. I never heard from her again. I was naive, I thought our freindship was just that, not a way for her reiligion to try and grab a hold of me. I must conclude the friendship was false.
It is sad that religions so easily teach people to lie, manipulate, and hate. It is sad that these religions are so poorly founded on truth that they feel threatened by the mere existence of optional perspectives (science, history, let alone other religions). It is indeed more sad that people are so deluded that they think believing these religions is a good. But then it was Brahman that created these conditions.
Now we must do what we can to help the world (not ourselves). We must bring compassion to the world as it has never been seen before. The compassion of Karma, Gyana, Bhakti… We need to teach ourselves not that we become enlightened, that selfishness we offer up as yagya, but rather that we can enlighten the suffering of a humanity so lost by the false idolatry of book and name worship in akarmic religions. This means protecting our children from ignorance and then teaching every person who will listen what we do know.
A recent survey in England showed that 38% of muslim young adults and 17% of older ones believed it was appropriate to kill someone leaving islam. That, my friends, is the real definition of himsa, intolerance, and the desperation of a peoples under a false ideology. Try to imagine the desperation in their minds and souls. They need our help. (as do our kids)
hariaum
March 29th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
bring awarness i mean ten years ago every gurdwara iin the country was flooded with posters and phamplets about the intentions of islamic extremists now the gurdwara’s are working to bringing more attention.
A good documantry for everyone to watch is undercover mosque on www.youtube.com type in “under cover mosque” and get everyone to watch these videos to see the threat.
March 29th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
the gudwara’s are working again to bring the same amount of attention back.
Honestly i think those numbers are wrong i mean i go to uni in birmingham i think those numbers of girls being converted are pumped up just to get a bigger reaction or for muslims to play mind games with us since their intention is to hurt us with this.
Every sikh in the country knows this stuff they’ve known this stuff since the 90’s i mean the gurdwara’s were publishing story’s of girls victimised of girls converted i mean anyone who went to the gurdwara or socialised with other sikhs knew about this problem and every sikh girl has known about muslims targeting them they have either noticed and heard about it at the gurdwara from parants or brothers or cousins or family friends or their sikh guy friends.
The only sikh girls that would date a muslim are either white washed grew up in white areas with no asian influence know nothing about whats going on and then go to uni meet a muslim. Or the girls are extremely SLUTTY in that they would sleep with anyone have low self esteem and no self respect and no morals or its the sikh girls that all the sikh guys don’t look at for example if their extremely overweight and never get guys looking at them or talking with them these girls usually have low self esteem are usually depressed and for a muslim guy to come up and say they love them it makes them happy and boosts up their self esteem.
I don’t want to be rude but this same type of awareness isn’t up in the hindu community i mean this issue has come up now out in the open after 10-15 years while sikhs have brought this issue up long time ago.
Not to be rude its sikhs more often then hindus who have to tell the hindu girls about muslim intentions and what has bin going on i know many hindus know about this threat but many have no knowledge of whats going on never heard about it or think it happends every blue mooon.
March 29th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
But i have yet to meet a sikh girl dating let alone married to a muslim and it really has to do with awarness, these girls know the truth about muslims hence they can’t trust them hence they will refuse to build relationships with them this was only a problem in the 80’s and 90’s but yea awarness. I mean its everywere family goes to gurdwara sees info next family gathering tells other family’s the parants from family’s tell daughters, or if brothers go to the gurdwara they will tell their sisters and guy friends about whats going on, but all in all 98% of sikh girls know not to trust these muslims thought its still going on awareness has to be raised.
I think now the problem is amount of girls and guys forgetting their religion and marrying outside.
March 30th, 2007 at 9:59 am
You are spot on Sikh. It is mostly Hindu the community who suffers from this lack of awareness.
It may have something to do with our previous generations, who came here to make a better life for their family. Many of our elders worked all hours, concentrated their energy in creating wealth and forgot to teach their children the importance of Dharma and culture. Many young people say that their elders have never taught them Sanatana Dharma. Instead, they learn about it from television, which not only gives the wrong impression of Hinduism, but also tends to demonise our faith. It worsens matters more when our own people make fun of our Culture and Religion (eg Meera Syal) for their personal gain. It makes the new generation of Hindus want to hide and be ashamed of their faith for fear of being branded ‘backward and regressive’ So marrying or dating outside may be viewed as modern and progressive
Things are changing for the better in the US, where the younger generation is actually teaching their elders about their own Hinduness. I think this is mainly due to the fact that prominent Hindu Leaders/Speakers tend to tour the US more often to give speeches.
We need big names like Francois Gautier and David Frowley to give a speech to our communities. They have been working hard and selflessly to make our people aware of conversion and intimidation from extremists and are able to tour the UK. This will have a positive domino effect on our Dharma.
The problem lies in financing something like this, due to the security issue it poses
March 30th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
“But i have yet to meet a sikh girl dating let alone married to a muslim and it really has to do with awarness, these girls know the truth about muslims hence they can’t trust them hence they will refuse to build relationships ”
Sikh, I dont know where you been living but I know numerous Sikh girls who have converted and married muslims.Even near to me theres a Islamic shop run by an ex-Sikh Girl.You need to visit all the night clubs to see what many sikh girls get upto. It’s time to encourage a awareness campaign by Hindus and Sikhs but unfortutnately I find Sikh groups spending more time encouraging hatred against Hindus and dont want to be connected to Hindus or Hinduism instead of dealing with the real problems that both communities face.If both came together then this issue can be easily solved.
March 30th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Sikh…I too know of quiet a few Sikh girls who have converted and at uni in nottingham, most of the Sikh girls went out with Muslims. Trust me, this is a problem we BOTH share….though I see what you are saying…or perhaps what you are tyrong to convey…I must admit, HINDU girls in particular seem easier targets…and in my opinion it boils down to teh Hindu inability to call a spade a spade. No doubt there are Hindus reading this right now villifying us all for being “rude and offensive to people of other faiths”…I can imagine reading a post saying “everyone is generalising…there may be muslims who try to convert non muslims but we have bad sections in our societoes too”…etc etc etc…….standrard procedure. Sometimes its like talking to a brick wall. And its these very types of people..the type who dont want to call a spade a spade who will succumb to the sly tactics of the Muslims.
You also say that the figures in Birmingham are inflated?…I disagree. I live near birmingham and have many friends who go to Birmingham Uni, UCE and Aston and they say that many muslims treat them like crap and try and convert…they may not always be successful (and with my friends they havent been) but the intent it there. My close friend had a gun pulled to his head by a Muslim gang that used to rule the dormitories of one of the birmingham Unis and he had to leave that particular uni.
In London, one of my MUSLIM mates wanted to join a Pakistani society at his Uni…and the very first meeting was so extreme and filled with hate againts Hindus and Sikhs in particular that he didnt ever go again..and was vilified by the Muslims that saw him on campus thereafter for not taking part in the societies events!…apparently the topic of converting “loose” Hindu and Sikh girls was high on the agenda.
I dont even want to imagine what it must be like for a Hindu or Sikh girl to go to uni in Bradford…
My uni was filled with what seemed like highly educated pleasant Muslims…until India played Pakistan in the world cup 2003 and then we had to endure slogans such as “India murdabad” (death to India) and “allah hu akbar” (Allah is great)…..the first chant was sickening and uncalled for. the second chant had no place in a common room full of people watching a sports game. But it shows you how even seemingly pleasant Muslims can have a militant side.
March 31st, 2007 at 1:36 pm
It not only universities where Hindus/Siks are targeted to convert to islam. I live near two primary and two secondary schools in midlands and I have witnessed how they are pestered to convert. some of the muslims even do not go to these schools. Its not only schools/unis but also place of work where conversation take place.
April 1st, 2007 at 10:36 am
marvelous…. so what are all you hindus going to do about… as the esteemed organisations NHSF are so big they are stiflied by their inertia… or they are so inept politically that they can not do anything for anyone.
I am sure Satya will come back with a fitting response for this attack on his wonderful “NHSF” and the Hindu Forum…
but I will tell you what there is not one Hindu organisation out there that its act together..
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
jack b…..
NHSF…its too wrapped up in being as PC as possible to speak up for the rights of Hindus and to help us form a united responce. NHSF should be at the FOREFRONT of the battle…no crap about inertia should detract from the fact that NHSF is a non entity if it doenst do anything to PROTECT Hindus. In this sense, NHSF is no better than sadly the majority of “Hindu” societies out there under the NHSF banner or otherwise that just organise gigs and parties and diwali meet and greets. Sure, hosting and organising events for Hindus at uni is..well…cute…but how about really providing us with a solid organisation that will fight for our rights?
Im not actually NHSF bashing here…i appreciate that organising events helps to some extent Hindus get together and meet…but I for one believe that such a big org. has the ability to do alot more…and it should.
Stop being a typical Hindu org. and actually have some spine and SPEAK UP about our grieviences!…the responsibiliy to air the problem of conversions shouldnt have only fallen squarely on the shoulders of the Hindu Forum but on NHSF too.
April 2nd, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Jack B. what do you want an institution to do? What groups should do what? Isn’t this best addressed by educating our kids?
I would be interested in hearing why girls (or boys) converted and what they found. Perhaps we would find what is lacking in our young men and women. (assertiveness, a passion for using sexuality for gain, or are they just nicer people…)
hariaum
April 3rd, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I ll tell you Navin what is lacking in our youth….knowledge about out religion…and with this absence of knowledge is an associated lack of pride and care. Siimply, we Hindus youth are indifferent and couldnt care less. Too busy drinking and smoking and trying to as western as possible (and as black as possible) to indulge in anything remotely Hindu.
Our parents missed a trick by focusing on education at the cost of educating us about our religion. A balance act could have been achieved (it worked with ME) but alot of Hindu parents seem to have neglected our religion and culture. The result are Hindu youth who get top jobs, city jobs, become doctors and barristers but they are Hindu by name only.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Very very right you are, Db8. We Hindus have not cared at all to know and learn about our Dharma. Our parents, too, have not cared for it in their lives. Leaving aside a few exceptions, they have, of course, gone to the temples sometimes (leaving the children at home!), but that too was for socialisation - and not because they were Hindus and so they ought to. Gurdwaras are full, mosques are overflowing. But, what about the temples? You can sometimes count the people on fingers. If the speaker started a discourse on the principles of our Dharma, the organisers would rush and whisper, “Please sing a Bhajan or do us some Kirtan or katha!”
One brother rightly said, we wanted to get the degrees and be as Western as possible.
Not only knowledge of the Dharma, but full pride, complete dedication and unwavering faith and conviction are the things that we need.
April 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Dear all, dear DB
I am sorry to say that today I read the article in this weeks Eastern Eye about the conversion issue. In this shameful tract, the paper contacted over 30 Hindu student societies along the country. Not one actually owned up to having any conversion problem, in fact the idiots of the NHSF at Leicester Uni even came out and gave a quote to that affect.
So I am NHSF bashing - aren’t these jokers supposed to be helping Hindus get their voice heard… but their true colours have been seen. They are bunch of pansies who are more interested in being seen and organising useless events but then it comes to the main issue not only do their leaders go silent but they come out and contradict what they have been saying.
Traitors, cowards, pansies - you know I am disgusted with the NHSF today….. today if anyone even thinks about standing up for them well I gues we know where you stand…
As for the Hindu Forum and all other organisations well they all hid away and bowed down…. you sad excuses for Human beings you do not deserve to be called representatives of hard working Hindus.
For all you who are looking for leadership, sorry but you are going to have fight your own battles… don’t look to the likes of the NHSF or the Hindu Forum or Hindu Council Uk - they have all betrayed you…
and too think this was once the culture that produced Krsna and Arjun, Ram and Gandhi and Sardar Patel and Shivaji et al…
Will the last decent Hindu switch off the lights in the UK - the leader do not exist…
all we can do is either lie down and wait for the secular steam roller to come up and crush us… or
we can stand, and fight… create a multi-purpose, disciplined, intelligent and focused organisation….
let me know when you want to do something
adios
JB
April 5th, 2007 at 12:46 am
I remember going to a NHSF organised event..a discussion day held in leicester…about terrorism and where the different religions stand with regards to terrorism.
There was a Hindu speaker, a Jewish speaker and a Muslim speaker. They all spoke about how their religions denounce terrorism or aggression. When one of the audience spoke against the Muslim speakers view about tolerance in their religion, he was hushed up and told to cease his questioning by the organisers. Ironically, the Muslim speaker WANTED him to finish.
I ges it shows that the NHSF are now a typical Hindu society…just a bigger version…To busy pandering to mainstream politically correct though as apposed to actually tackling the issues that hit us the hardest HEAD ON.
So who do our students have that will fight on their behalf?…As usual, they have noone.
Hindus……..PLEASE WAKE UP
April 5th, 2007 at 12:49 am
BTW, I hope NHSF committee members are reading and taking this in. These are serious grieviences we are airing here……they must be dealt with…
April 5th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
personally Db8 your way to exagerating the problem like i said i gone to college full of muslims sikhs and hindus i go to uni in birmingham full of muslims sikhs and hindus and have yet to see a muslim/sikh or hindu girl couple.
I think the problem is over blown i think when this problem was serious was the 90’s and the gurdwara’s in birmingham brought awarness and then sikh youth started getting together with the approval of elders in the gurdwaras and their encouregment who told the youth to teach the extremists a lesson they’ll never forget and 95% of the problem was taken out.
Like i said i don’t want to sound rude but hindu organisations bringing up this problem is 10 years to late.
I know in some parts of the country the problem continue never bin to bradford but heard its a junior pakistan and we should keep attacking the issue till it’s gone for good.
Db8 what univirsity does your friend go to were a muslim gang pulled out a gun on him. Never heard of this.
April 5th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Im 23 i havn’t ever met a sikh girl who has dated a muslim who is in my age area, Only way a sikh girl could be dumb enough to date a muslim now is if she has low self esteem or is a mega slag otherwise if someone has let me know. T
he muslims need to be stopped from targeting girls all together thats all that is left.
April 5th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
If some Hindu and Sikh girls who do convert to Islam then who is to blame? Blame their Dumb Westernised Parents who do not want to know or teach anything about our Hindu Dharma and also to be blamed are those most useless so-called Hindu organizations that actually work against our Hindu interests.
Also all parents must know what their daughters are up to in Uni.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:20 am
“Im 23 i havn’t ever met a sikh girl who has dated a muslim who is in my age area” (quote Sikh)
I’ve met quite a few, and I’m roughly the same age.
“Only way a sikh girl could be dumb enough to date a muslim now is if she has low self esteem or is a mega slag otherwise if someone has let me know” (quote Sikh)
And not all of them would fit into this description.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:26 am
Sikh, just because you live an area where the problem is less, it is silly to simply assume that the problem simply doesn’t exist. That is a habit that is quite common amongst many Sikhs I know, especially Khalistanis (I’m not saying you are one - you may or may not be) - much to the detriment of your community.
I can come out with several examples. A (former) Sikh female friend of mine, who was quite intelligent and pretty, and used to always bang on about Sikh issues (Khalistan), just recently converted to Islam… she even tried to get me to listen to Islamic tapes and stuff! She lives in North London, and her parents and stuff don’t even know yet.
I’m just sayin this to you cuz you should be aware that its not just simply a very minor problem just because where you’re at its less likely.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
To be honest this is a sikh an hindu problem, i know plenty of sikh boys and girls who have converted as well as hindus….to be honest this needs to be addressed by the uni socities properly and not by skirting round the issue it seems like the nhsf are mostly intrested in clubbing events and dinners and dances while the islamic socities are discussing world domination and conversion of hindus threres quite a contrast!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
^^^ I agree. I remember when I used to go to NHSF zone meetings that they used to hold about 2-3 times a year. They used to just talk about accounts and which societies had or hadn’t yet signed their NHSF affiliation forms. Towards the end, someone on the crowd would bring up and interesting issue like this, but by that time it was too late and everybodu had to go home. At least 8 times I witnessed this. Not even issues about how societies can promote Hindu education in a basic yet enjoyable way used to be discussed for usually more than a few minutes compared with the bureacratic aspect. That’s why the next year my uni Hindu society (King’s College) disaffiliated with NHSF, and decided to go it alone. That was about 3-4 years ago, dunno if it has changed at all.
Anywayz - the purpose of this is not to slag of NHSF (who everybody knows don’t do much) but to instead say to everyone - DON’T EXPECT ANY GROUP OR ORGANISATION OR PERSON TO DO STUFF. IF THERE IS SOMETHING YOU DON’T LIKE GOING ON OUT THERE, GET A FEW LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE AND DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE ABOUT IT. IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU ARE BY DEFAULT PART OF THE PROBLEM.
April 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Sheena Patel i live in birmingham and im originally from london never seen a sikh girl in my age group date or get converted by muslims, and actually the sikh community are the once who speak the loudest about this issue they brought it up before anyone else so don’t think every sikh is a khalistani and supports muslims and ignore muslims and want to attack hindus, and sikhs have never ignored the issue why do you think its always muslims and sikhs fighting with eachother no one else seems to be fighting with the muslims why is that. I don’t support khalistan but you know that group shere punjab were it originally started it started in birmingham in gurdwaras with pictures of khalistanis in the kitchen actually their our khalistanis who hate hindus and muslims and khalistanis who just hate hindus and khalistanis who don’t hate anyone just the indian government and want a sikh country that ranjit singh had. For me khalistan is just stupid plain and simple punjabi hindus and sikhs have lived peacefully for thousands of years so im against throwing hindus out of the punjab also it would hurt the punjab badly khalistan would be another bangledesh and right now sikhs are doing pretty well in india i heard punjab’s economy is at top of india so i don’t know why khalistanis still keep on complaining.
My question for any RSS supporter in the forum is were are the rss to stop the muslims from attacking in england they dont’ seem to brave do they.
April 13th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Their our many hindus who stand up and fight against muslims but to say sikhs are quit and ignore the issue is the dumbest thing ive honestly ever heard.
April 13th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
The RSS don’t do any fighting any where. They are a bunch of wooftas, in my opinion. But the Singh Sabha are just as bad.
April 14th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Sikh…i dont recall anyone saying that the sikhs dont stand up and fight……
The uni I was talking about was UCE…and im not sure what halls the problem was really bad in. But basically the halls of residence was ruled by muslim gangs. This was…around 3 years ago…not very long ago at all.
Anyways, every Hindu and Sikh I know in my area knows of a Hindu or Sikh…yes SIKH who has been converted or has converted for whatever reason. My Muslim RE teacher converted her bofriend and married him (he was Sikh). Noone is saying that just because there ARE Sikhs who get converted, this means that Sikhs are inept. Its just weird that you make out as if the problem is a minor one in your community. Sorry mate, its not. I have many Sikh friends and I know the low down on the situation of the Sikh community pretty much…you guys face just as much of this crap as we Hindus do.
Why are your pulling wool over your eyes?…its nice to think that the Sikh community is so strong that it DOESNT happen, but thats just not true. Ever been to Leeds and seen how many Sikh girls date muslims and convert?…..i lived there for a year…it happened alot.
Saying this, Hindus are just as bad. and youre right Sikh…although you lot have the same problems as US, you guys are more vocal about it…and THATS the point of this debate now. A Sikh org. has just praised Hinduvoice for making the whole debate national…Hindus are famed the world over for being hardworking and high achievers…..we are the best at “fitting in” and “adapting”…much more so than any other subcontinental community….and thats often at the expence of our pride and culture…and our VOICE.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
db8 when did i say the problem in the hindu community is worste then the sikh community. Secondly that sikh guy ok their’s something new i never heard some sikh guy converting for a pakistani girl that guy probably the most pathetic loser in the world probably the ugliest to, to be so desperate to convert for a girl.
Were am i pulling wool over my eyes your the one db8 who think these muslims are so crazy buddy i grew up in south hall never saw girls in my age group get pulled by muslims or convert i go to uni in birmingham and i don’t see muslims bulllying sikhs or hindus trust me the sikhs and muslims rumble alot but its usually muslims who get their asses handed so for your friend who thinks muslims that are so scary all i have to say is what a coward. When did i say sikh girls didn’t get converted i know they got converted but like i said over 90% of those conversions took place in the 80’s and 90’s but in the 90’s is when the sikhs brought awarness about the problem and this has reduced the problem of sikh girls converting by like 95% but the muslims still try to convert hence why sikhs and muslims are always going at it. Trust me i have yet to see a sikh girl in my age group and im 23 between who are between the ages of 18-25 right now ever date or convert to islam i never have seen it and i believe this is do to the fact that their was awarness brought up everywere in the sikh community.
db8 how can you say we underplay the problem yet then go on to say the sikh community is more vocal about it.
What hit my nerve is sheena patel and ppl like them trying to make it sound like sikhs want to be friend muslims and ignore the problem and attack hindus, i want to ask him again why is it always sikhs fightiing with muslims then, why were the sikh community first one and the loudest one to bring up their problem, and about this muslim sikh unity crap let me ask who were the ppl in new delhi and mumbai who thought it would be really awsome to make pen pals in pakistan and send eachother gifts it wasn’t sikhs i know that.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Sikh are you living in cuckoo land or what ? Where was all that Sikh bravery yesterday? Read this which is from a Sikh Site :
SIKH WOMEN AND CHILDREN ATTACKED AT VAISAKHI MELA, WHILE JAWAAN SIKSH STOOD BACK AND WATCHED
Yesterday was Smethwick Mela in Birmingham on the High Street. It was a beautiful day, and families with women and children were out in force enjoying the food rides, events and music. The time was about 5.30pm approx while B21 were performing on stage.
2 cars pulled up on the dual carriageway opposite Baba Sang Ji Gurdwara, about 7-10 guys climbed up the grass verge to where families were watching the performance on stage and suddenly started attacking women children and old people with baseball bats, metal bars, hammers and hockey sticks.
There was blood everywhere, there were women and kids walking around after the attack with head injuries. This one poor old guy who was asleep under a tree had his face smashed with a hockey stick, A full power blow.I personally saw this and saw the attackers strike violently at women and children.
After the attack the cowards made a getaway back to the cars and attampted to drive off. Someone, i dont know who, but enough respect to them, popped the the window on the ford Galaxy (get away car). Im not sure if the police caught them but alot of sikhs were left with injuries.
If anyone has any information please inform the police, or better yet, deal with it using “street-justice”.
A real sad ending to a beautiful day.
What is even more shameful, no-one from our community intervened or retailated, they just stood back and watched. What a shameful response and cowardlyness from our people, I quote from another witness:
yup., i can confirm this happened………. and i tell you something, which shocked me - most of the jawaan youth didnt do anything, just moved away…….. all these so-called singhs, who go around with their militant ways and giving it loads were some what “baffled” at what happened
April 16th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
^^^ Incidents like above are far from rare. Silly people like ‘Sikh’ (the poster, not Sikh people in general) want to say “we are hard and nobody f**ks with us”, coz it makes him feel good. But is that the reality? From what I’ve seen - no way. Where I’ve grown up in Ilford I’ve seen 17-18 year old Sikh guys who go on about Sher Punjab try to contact so-called Sher Punjab for back up in a fight, get nowhere in their search for the semi-mythical organisation, and then ask me and my local crew (mixed ethnicity but very few Sikhs) to help them solve their problems. Also what happens is that the older Sikhs who’ve been around for a long time are disconnected from the problems of younger Sikhs who get a very hard time from Pakistani groups. Therefore, there are vulnerable sections of the community. A similar case exists with Hindus, but we’re not going around blowing our trumpet here like you.
April 16th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
A few years ago in my town, there was a mela in the park..a Pakistani group came down and started a fight at the mela..and they got driven out by the crowd…the next WEEK they attacked random Sikhs in my town centre as retaliation. Think what you may, but this shit happens and no-one is necessarily immune to this kind of aggression.
You said that my mate was a coward?…the one who had a gun pulled to his head..the one who constantly was harrased?…one of the reason all this happend to him was becuase he was one of the only ppl to actually attempt to fight back (physically)…and BTW, he had a mixed Hindu and Sikh friendship group..all of whom didn’t do much. So before you label someone as weak..find out the full story.
Sikh…you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing now..lets leave it as this…you have not come across Sikhs converting or getting threatened by Muslims, whereas I DEFINATELY have. Pretty simple hey?…Frankly I dont care if you havent ever come across anyone in your age group taht has converted…because I HAVE….and yes both Hindus AND Sikhs..and I dont think it should happen. Because often (well mostly) its not from free will that a conversion takes place. THATS the matter that I care about…
Oh, and my teacher was from the middle east. Not Pakistan…BUT admittedly, I cant ever recall, apart from that example, another Sikh GUY convert……nor have I seen a HINDU guy convert. The issue is obviously with our women.
ppl like Sheena probably are reffering to “Khalistanis” who despite all the animosity they receive from Muslim factions STILL insist that every Hindu in the UK is an undercover Indian agent out to re create the anti Sikh riots of Delhi…and as a result spew hatred for Hindus and oddly a kind of reverence or kinship with Muslims.
April 17th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I have seen Hindu guys and women convert. I ask them why:
to christianity: the emphasis is no forgiveness and love and the name of god doesn’t matter much.
to islam: to get married, and the hindu traditions weren’t anything she cared for.
These individuals are professionals - educated.
But they are not educated into what they are getting.
I met a Pakistani recently, nice guy, seemed sort of sweet. He was assertive, confident, personable. As a person you would find it hard to say he is to be avoided. I have met other paksitanis and muslims, some of which are “good” people and others just frank users. - they are human like the rest of us and have human gifts and faults.
But what they are good at is divorcing the arrogance, hatred, and evil in their traditions from themselves. Hindus will look at their history and say it is a religion that was once great. The chritsoislamic groups will look at their history and say it wasn’t their fault that so many people suffered at their hands. Hindus will look at other religions and say we are all finding our way to god. They look at other religions and say how horrible a history they have.
The hindu way is one of truth, theirs is a way of self deception. For us to challenge them is not to pick up arms but to pick up pens and voice. And with those tools point out the UNIQUE hatred and hubris that is created by the tenets of those religions and how supporting those religions in name, money, or other way is a way to support the dark ages of religious hate they have brought to the world. In the same way a rational person would not chose to join the Nazi’s or the communists once they are aware of the history of these groups, so a rational person who is aware of the history and dogma that support that history would not chose to join these groups. This is supported by a miseducation of the older hindus in believing that “all religions are the same” or some other ahistorical perspective. Thus to blame our parents is inadequate. It is a societal change we must bring about; as I said earlier - make cartoons of mohamed and god, point out the historical intolerance of the christo-islamic group as different from all other religions, drop leaflets in Mecca about hinduism and buddhism… their evil will continue to grow unless we address it.
Of course this is not a denial of the very center of self preservation - the ability and willingness to utilize martial force when needed - and here the kallaripaytu etc needs to be encouraged amongst our youth. Each person is all four of the castes - we all labor, we all think, we all do a cost-benefit analysis, and we all fight for sat cit ananda.
hariaum
April 17th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
i don’t reply to make sikhs look tough i reply when ppl make sikhs seem like muslim ass kissers.
Dev from that article how many young sikhs were around please tell me because i know muslims are cowardly enough to attack sikh elders and children and women but not the young guys i go to uni in birmingham i go to school were their muslims sikhs and hindus so i know that their is no way in hell their were groups of young sikhs who stood and watched no way that could of happened please send me a link to this heck i didnt even hear about the incident yet but if it happened wait for the revenge part that always follows, i posted an article about the 97 riots were muslims did the same attack sikh children and women and when a sikh kid commited suicide from bullying what happened was the extremists got the ass kicking of a life time from the sikhs.
Usually this is what happends after muslims attack sikhs but this is the biggest retalition to be reported but here it is
http://www.easterneyeonline.co.uk/iframe_story.asp?NID=2505
dangerous i will say the old shere punjab is gone and these kids just listen to, to much hip hop music but trust me alot of young tough sikhs around believe me i see it, lol dangerous say what you want i live in birmingham go to school their i see what goes on who runs and who fights lol dude usually ITS SIKHS WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO FIGHT MUSLIMS THEN ANYONE ELSE IF I AM WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME
Db8 i go to school in birmingham believe me lol hahaha i know the difference between shi* talking and what really happends AND BELIEVE ME YOU TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF STORY’S WERE SIKHS WERE ATTACKED AND I CAN TELL YOU DOZENS OF STORY’S WERE SIKHS ATTACK MUSLIMS IN REVENGE LOL GO HIT UP A CLUB IN BIRMINGHAM AND ITS ALWAYS SIKHS AND MUSLIMS BOXING WITH EACHOTHER. BUT ONCE AGAIN DB 8 WHO IS THE COMMUNITY MOST LIKELY TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. I DOUBT AND KNOW FOR A FACT THAT STORY OF YOUR FRIEND BEING THE ONLY ONE TO STAND UP IS PURE BULL I GO TO UNI IN BIRMINGHAM LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SO SAY WHAT EVER YOU WANT LOL HAHAHAAH I SEE WHAT REALLY HAPPENDS IN THE SCHOOLS I SEE IT EVERY DAY HECK I WAS AT SCHOOL TODAY SAME AS USUAL SIKHS STARING DOWN THE MUSLIMS AND VICE VERSA. I BET YOUR FRIEND HAD A BB GUN PULLED OUT ON HIM OR A WATER GUN LOL HAHAHAHA.
but yes guys could you tell me when other community’s are attacked have their ever bin cases of them fighting back if so care to explain lol. Or just please don’t try insulting the sikh community.
April 17th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
db 8 i didn’t say the violence has gone down but the conversions have lol and i know what i see and i havn’t seen any girl in my age group dumb enough to date a muslim pakistani grew up in south hall every sikh in the schools knew about what the muslims did now in birmingham were the shere punjab is legendary well the real shere punjab and all the guys and girls know what the muslims are up to, conversions yes went down but the fighting is still their but don’t forget you write about all these stories of what the muslims did to the sikhs but tell me which community delivered a bigger blows to the pakistanis.
Db 8 you said your father was part of the shere punjab in what year and with what group lol hahahaha this sounds like bull shi* to me.
But i will say their our brave hindus out their who fight back but please don’t critizise the sikhs.