Hindu girl fed up with Hindu girls!
I am a Hindu girl, an extremely proud Hindu girl that takes pride in the preservation of my self-respect and dignity. So, that means following a moral Hindu path. An easy escape route for some Hindus is that their parents never taught them about their culture and religion, so they can’t be blamed for anything they do. I brought this excuse for many years, and blamed the parents.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:56 am
I found it very funny that this hindu girl seems to have spent more time criticising her fellow devotees rather than thinking about her own betterment. This was a classic, I am better than you syndrome, dressed up in religious piety. Its obviously that this lady doesnt know about Hinduism at all, otherwise she would have immediately made the link to “maya”
I suggest that she concentrates on her own enlightenment rather than looking at others, that would do her much good rather than gossiping and cribbing.
cheers
parag
February 26th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Namaste,
I totally agree to what you mentioned.
Regards
Navin
February 26th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Since I was a teenager 25 years ago (near Slough) many things are now acceptable behaviour in public that then, only “badly bought up” people would have indulged in. How has this change occured?
Once a child’s only exposure to values would have been essentially to its own family and their values - so the influence towards change (taking on the values of others) would have been small.
Nowadays we are exposed to vast array of influences - TV, internet etc. So to preserve standards of behaviour there must be resistance to being coloured by the company of others.
In the west families are not important. Personal choice and variety are applauded.
Of all the cultures Hinduism is the most tolerant and embracing of the ideas of outsiders - so Hindu culture becomes the most diverse - or contaminated, if you will.
As we approach Holi, the question is - by whose company will you be coloured? How will dharma be retored?
Jim
February 26th, 2007 at 10:56 am
A truly laudable article.
The fact that these people would even go to places of worship with such attitude and to spoil the sanctity of the place in itself is deplorable.
Best
Jagdish
February 26th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Agredd with the article. Its clear religion is just a forefront and then what else goes on well you all know. Dont need to go very far to look at examples just take navratri these days. Tell me how many people genuinely go for mataji? It must be less then 10%
February 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
I fully agree with you. When teenager we never question our parents How? What? When? and How?. We just accept them, but as we grow older we ask the same questions to ourselves. After getting the replies from ourselves we then think how are parents feel. We should not blem our parents but ourselves. It is the influence of our friends that guide us to the bad habits. We should blame ourselves because we if at this age are ignorant then what can we expect from others.
February 26th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
“I am better than you syndrome, dressed up in religious piety.”
So what do you want people to do, bury their heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that everything is hunky dory, have you been to any of these so called garbas and see what they have turned into?
Even people Samarth Ramdas criticised others sharply about what they felt was the degeneration in values, they didn’t sit there chanting everything is maya so we don’t need to do anything, do you see Muslim youth going to the mosque to pick up girls or dressed up like a wannabe G or Sikhs doing that, why not?
For too long now, Hindu youth have been misled by the non chalant attitude of their parents, it’s good to see young people like Nidhi Bhatia taking an interest in the state of our society where earning a Phd, becoming a Doctor or an Engineer and earning tons of money are the only things that determine success.
February 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I fully agree with Nidhi Bhatia’s woes. Absolutely correct and an honest observation. We Hindus have to grow “out” of our Pretence, hypocracy and intolerance among each other. Unless we respect each other, we cannot expect “others” to respect us. In-fighting has always been the root cause of the downfall of our (Hindu) society. Sooner our young men and women realize this the faster we will become a “proud, self respecting and a confident” society. The begining has to be done by the parents by “Talking” to the children and “educating” them in this aspect of “Boy - Girl relationship” before letting them loose in the world.
February 26th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
AMEN!its not how other people have said “better than you”syndrome but the actual truth.day in day out i see it everywhere and it makes you feel sick at how some of these girls act and dress for a guy. the mandir is not a place to hook up but a place to worship. girls should have more respect for themselves and for there own religion!
Tulsi =)
February 26th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
Very well said, I wish more people would be able to read what she has written.
Remember to condemn the men that take advantage of and encourage this situation as well.
Above all this is just her opinion, she is not declaring herself some self-rightous messenger from god.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
This issue is VERY important. It’s great to see somebody highlighting these issues, which are paramount today especially on the london youth scene. Rather than just the mandir, I see a huge problem with young Hindus going to local gigs and parties and literally wasting themselves. DRINKING had now become more prominent amongst 14-17 year olds than ever; with even the religious Hindus falling victim to it. Boys/Girls and dating has become incredibly common and everything that comes with it. All of which revolve around this modern teenage party life. I think it’s all due to misunderstanding of what is acceptable amongst young Hindus today. Every event that goes down in Ilford has become a perfect chirpse centre from Garba at Prabas (Ilford High Road) to the Colliseum gigs. HINDU TEENAGERS NEED TO BE MORE INFORMED AND REMINDED! THAT IS THE ISSUE!
February 26th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
I agree with a lot of what has been said.
I feel that this is a very sensitive subject because as one of the posters above said this article could just be about the “I am better than you syndrome”. Which is true. But what I also think is true is the way this post was replied to0 (”So what do you want people to do, bury their heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that everything is hunky dory”)….
In a mandir, i believe that it is wrong to wear revealing clothes, try and act cool and check out members of the opposite sex. But I also believe that it is wrong to look down on the people who do this just because they have a different attitude. This creates segregation and hatred in a sacred place much like the caste system does. I think that we should focus on trying to change the attitude of people who do this and not spend so much of our time looking down on them…
I think that both groups of people i.e those who look down and those who just go to a mandir to try and impress are in fault….
just thought id share my opinion…
take care
February 26th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
I like to think of myself as a well-grounded modern British Hindu girl, but I feel embarrassed and slightly appalled at the attitude that the author has taken against these girls. I find it even more appalling to describe in crude stereotypes: ‘It’s not like it’s difficult to recognise a loose girl. The ironed hair that covers one half of the face, the squinted eyes that are meant to represent that they’re gorgeous and in demand, the skin tight clothes and the, ‘I’m a helpless girl that needs rescuing’ sway.’
I dont know if its an ‘i’m better than you’ syndrome as described in a previous comment, but I really feel annoyed that article space would be used for such self-righteous nit-picking and gross generalisation. I would much rather enjoy informative articles which are not worried about how other people are, who are to blame and how they can change, but something that can help me develop my own character….
February 27th, 2007 at 1:20 am
It seems to me that there are at least three issues that needs addressing with respect to the article and the comments above: 1. Is the author trying to show that she is better than other Hindu girls? 2. What is the purpose of going to a Hindu place of worship? And 3. Is there a problem with girls and boys seeking friendship with one another? I think the author feels strongly about a sincere commitment to our religion and she should be commended for this. On the other hand one should be sensitive in putting this across, young people are influenced by the different fashions in terms of clothes, etc. - this should not be immediately interpreted as a lack of spirtual awareness. What is needed is an engagement with them to find out why they carry themselves the way they do. The purpose of going to a place of worship is to seek spiritual knowledge and there is nothing wrong in girls and boys interacting with each other and sharing views and ideas. They will only respect each other if they go beyond appearances and this means exploring the question of who “they really are”? Of course, there is the physical attraction, and if a girl is attracted to a boy or vice versa, this should not be considered as unholy, it is better for them to discuss this in a holy place under the guidance of the inner Self. On the whole I think that Hindu women are modest in the way they dress and carry themselves - this and other virtues have given them a great deal of respect within our society and may it long prevail, we must not mistake equality for cultured and civilised behaviour, certainly women should be treated equally as men but this does not mean that if a man misbehave a woman should as well. Our culture has given equal status to women in terms of spirituaity, yet our men sometimes illtreat our women. Young girls and boys have the responsibility to live their lives as good Hindus. If they show respect towards each other and drink deep from our heritage, our religion will go from strength to strength.
February 27th, 2007 at 10:03 am
I think this woman is narrow minded. Just making genralizations that a girl with a squint eye is loose only shows how hollow her thinking is. Nevertheless, I complement her on her interest in spirtuality which is the final goal each one of us should strive for…
February 28th, 2007 at 7:04 am
Almost all comments are opinions. No different from the main article.
What are facts however,
1. We are deprived of education on our Dharma (unlike Muslims and Christians - where values are taught at home and in schools)
2. We are ‘extroverted’ and do not grow up ‘looking inwards’. (Thus we end up aping the environment around us)
Now, any mature person will find solutions to these.
If we want to really connect ourselves with our real ’self’, we will have to draw up a syllabi and time table, like we did while studying in schools - and work towards short & long term goals.
All the best.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Great Article Nidhi! Keep up the good work, all my friends read Hindu Voice and we cant wait for the next issue, you guys have some great issues on here. It will definetely help British Hindus to think about all different kinds of issues that are related to them either directly or indirectly
February 28th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
There is nothing like loose girl. Hindu religion considers woman as synbol of power . Let us get above these things and concentrate on intellectual and spiritutal development of women to allow them full expresssion of their talent and world will become better.
February 28th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
The Truth is finally out. Its true that the girls need to step up their act asap and realise that lifeis not a bollywood movie. It is becoming extremely rare to bump into a Hindu girl and a decent minded Hindu guy without this ‘bollywood fantasy’ outlook on life.
Well done Nidhi.
February 28th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
i agree
February 28th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Bit OTT hey, concentrate on your own life not others, their karmas and actions will affect them not you, life and society has changed since the holy books were written and not everyone has a comprehensive understanding of the hindu religion even though they are hindus, absurd arguements arise from criticising peoples demeanour just look at the controversy surrounding islam, everyones entitled to live their own life, however wrong or disrespectful it may seem to others, you all forget a simple rule or law in all religions, ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE YOU, enough said i think!
February 28th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Yeah right, first learn about religion before you comment, not all religions believe in a God in the first place, Jainism doesn’t.
If everyone is entitled to live their own life then we certainly are entitled to live our own life by not associating them or criticising them, we were given advice in the scriptures for a certain reason and that is to use them as guides to live a good life not to live “life as u want”, trash in a society will always be treated as trash.
February 28th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
By the way we are all judging people every day whether we realise it or not, we even have courts to judge people and lock them up, you don’t put a paedophile and a normal person on par or allow your kids to associate with both of them equally do you?
We make friends based on our judgement of them, I am sure most people wouldn’t make friends with a junkie because they have already judged the person to be a bad influence on their own life.
February 28th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Nidhi is NOT trying to say ‘I am better than you.’ It would be naive to think this. She is like all of us passionate about the Hindu Samaj. Someone commented: ‘concentrate on your own life not others, their karmas and actions will affect them not you.’ It is OUR responsibility to make sure this is NOT the case. We are here to serve for one another and if a Hindu is misguided, it is our duty to guide them. Nidhi…you are a genius!
Good night.
February 28th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Dear all
Interesting conversation this ain’t it. Now one part of me says that if some Indian (Hindu?) girls want to dress and act like tarts (I think they call it the Harrow-On-The-Hill-Hooker look) thenm, hey its their loss. That they want to do it at the mandir, or other religious occasions - well thats just too bad. The people who are going to these places for the right reasons will not care anyway,
Then the other part of me says” Damn we should do something - first re-indoctrinate the parents (not all of them need this mind you) and secondly - herd of up all the lads and lasses, take them into a cold large wharf in the east end docks and give them a choice
1, either start acting like a hindu (obviously we would have to agree what that means)
2, Give your hinduness and become part of the indigenios masses and never darken the door of and hindu fesitivity again (then again they can always go to Conversion Uni - sorry Middlesex Uni)
hey it may be a bit harsh, but then we have been a bit bloody lax for too long.
as always this is only my opinon, i may be wrong.
regards and kisses
Jack B
February 28th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
oh apols my spell checker wasnt working … (just in case those middle class guju hindus start kicking up a fuss)
March 1st, 2007 at 2:05 pm
I agree and support u
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I didnt realise middle class gujis were spell checkers…im certainly not.
Anyways, I think many have missed the point of this article. Sure there are some massive generalisations in this article “straight hair over one side of the face”…btw, my sister has straight hair and shes a very pious Hindu. BUT they SENTIMENT behind the article must be unearthed.
Kiren, you see to have taken a vey defensive approach to the article…all the author was trying to do (admittedly not in the best way) was to highlight a lamentous situation. The fact of the matter is that there IS a degredation of values which are manifest in the way our Hindu girls/women dress..the way they act…the reasons they act in the way they do. Hindu boys/men arent to be let off easy too. Im sure I could write a long article describing how Hindu guys have lost all sense of pride and value in their Hindu roots.
It very easy to as Harish put it “bury your head in the sand” and its because we do exactly that that nothing ever gets solved. We have a tendency (in my opinion) to take the moral high ground at every opportunity…eg, a Hindu may not like that the author has said that she dislikes the fact that Hindu girls wear skanky clothes and tart themselves up too much. A typical Hindu pacifist reaction to this is “dont focus on others..let them do what they want…you think youre better than others…all youre doing is bitching…each to their own” etc etc etc.
I on the other hand believe that its VERY important and pertinent to call a spade a spade. Only if we can highlight our deficiences can we take the stpes to eradicating them. Its easy to pretend that many of our women do not dress up like hookers (hey, ive been to uni..and ive visited unis up and down the country and seen what our girls wear..and its not much)..it easy to say that all Hindu guys are religious and care about their religion and have pride. But I would be lying. Lying to myself and lying to my people.
To fix something, you have to identify it…and you have to be HONEST, without fearing that you arent being politically incorrect. And thats the problem with Hindus..we have some self righteous overbearing need to be politically correct even if it is to our detriment. Only Hindus would end up in a situation where India, a majority Hindu country, provides more benefits to NON HINDUS…all in the name of being self righteous and politically correct. Its high time we realised that the only people who get shafted in this situation is US HINDUS.
March 3rd, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Hi,
I very much agree with this article.
March 3rd, 2007 at 6:26 pm
kanichiwa,(hi)
I agree to a certain extent to what this women is saying. Some girls may walk in to the mandir with straight hair and tight clothes, but some may do that and still be a devout hindu.I beleive you dont have to show your hindu by the way you look, maybe you wanna look like that,its society today,but as long as they’re hindu inside and true from inside then it doesnt matter.
Tscuus(bye)
March 5th, 2007 at 8:12 am
When there is some space to be filled up, the news papers etc use some “filler”….and honestly this article sounds more like that than one to discuss an issue. This problem - if it is one - not limited to or only for Hinduism- but one all over the world including most theocratic states - u cannot exclude even middle east.
Would it not be better if focus is more on Hinduism, problems faced by Hinduism etc???
namaskaram
March 5th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
“Would it not be better if focus is more on Hinduism, problems faced by Hinduism etc???”
Ya right, people dressing up however they want and coming to the mandir to pick up girls or to ogle at them is not an issue facing Hinduism?
Show me one mosque where people do that, then we can talk.
March 8th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
The most sacred samskar is marriage.
In the epic period people were getting married at very young ages. As modern society has evolved, many are marrying after the prime reproductive years (biologically speaking) - even to the point that in the US many people are choosing never to get married. Now we could debate if this aculturation is correct or that. But regardless it is the reality.
Thus we must interpret our traditions and beliefs into the modern world.
The mandir is a scared place of community. The soul is, wherever your are, is the most sacred place of all. Thus community is particularly important to the mandir. The mandir functions to bring people together in a satsang for better vision into the connection with god (ideally andyway).
I agree that becoming biological animals and prancing and primming about like a bunch of peacocks is rather an odd thing to do in a mandir. On the other hand, I’ld like to see young people meet in mandirs and develop relationship from there (as opposed to bars, clubs, at the job site…) I’ld also like to see more people open up again to the idea of arranged marriage. Thus a balance must be found - mandir singles nights? - where young people are attracted to the mandir and thus commune there in a more wholesome environment. (Frankly, having a mandir full of somber people telling you not to enjoy life is a major turn off for the young so full of rajas). So we do need to let them dress and talk and meet in a way that will appeal to them.
Now we could bury our heads in the sand and say that we don’t accept sensuality in our self and thus not in others (become puritans, wear black, and kill of the indigenous peoples while we are at it). But in fact we need to recognize sensuality and provide a community appropriate construct (usually marriage) for the use of that sensuality for enlightenment (our own and that of the world). It seems to me that the mandir is a place for such a provision.
If hindu marriages fail, even Mount Meru will not be able to support the tradition. Thus we see that this a very important issue that every hindu community must address adapting the eternal truths of humanity to the local environment and the personal experience of karma.
hariaum
March 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I remember one time attending a Bhagvat katha given by Rameshbhai Oza (often known as Pujya Bhaishri). At one stage, he described an incident that he came across once in India, which I think is perhaps relevant to this conversation.
Bhaishri was travelling in a car through Delhi when he stopped at some traffic lights. Whilst waiting there, he saw a girl standing at the bus stop, probably a student. This girl was dressed in a tight top and hipster-style jeans, had her hands in her pockets and seemed to be chewing gum. He thought to himself about how our youth have strayed from our culture and felt upset.
Then, the bus came around the corner and the girl saw it, took one hand out of her pocket and raised it up to hail the bus. In her hand was a mala - she wasn’t standing with hands in pockets chewing gum, she was chanting on her mala. As the lights turned green and his car moved off again, he reflected on how spirituality, or one’s personal relationship with God (or whatever), is a personal, inner thing and not something that we ought to judge as casual observers.
Sure, those girls may well be ‘tarted up’ at the mandir but at least they are at the mandir. They may be eyeing up the ‘talent’ but at least it will be Hindu talent. And as for the guys, why shouldn’t they be more forward with approaching Hindu girls? Would you rather those girls, out of frustration, turn to the Muslims or white guys who are more than happy to give them what they want? And yes, it may be sappy Hindu political correctness, but quite frankly, who the hell are you to judge, especially if you don’t even know the person concerned?
March 13th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I’ve read the comments here, and I agree with Db8 in that the essence of the article is more worthy of discussion than specific statements. Nidhi has described her own experiences and her interpretations of them: they should be treated as such. All people judge, some more explicitly than others. Implicit judgement occurs, for example, in one’s choice of friends. Nidhi should not be criticized for sharing her thoughts. A similar article could easily have been written on the attitudes of Hindu boys.
As some have already mentioned, there are two sides to the argument. On the one hand, Nidhi’s article appears guilty of undue stereotyping and some may feel that she has no right to judge others (the politically correct view). On the other hand, she raises some important issues about how Hindus behave, how they should behave, and why it matters.
Personally, I believe the latter perspective is more truthful. There need not be a contradiction between dressing immodestly and being spiritual. However, from my personal experiences as a student, there is not only a correlation but a clear link between the two. Satya’s story, for example, is fanciful thinking: I’m not afraid of stereotyping when I say that a spiritual person will necessarily place less emphasis on appearance and materialism. Yes, sure there will be exceptions. But, in general, it’s the truth.
It is difficult to criticize attitudes without judging the people who hold them. This is what I believe Nidhi has attempted to do, perhaps with limited success, but I do feel she should be commended for airing this issue. I believe attitudinal problems of individuals become a social problem as soon as they affect others and, in this case, are worthy of critical discussion. Lack of respect in mandirs and on religious occasions, for example, directly affects the experience of those who are more religious or spiritually inclined. Given the ostensible purpose of mandirs as a place for reflection and worship, this is important.
March 13th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Nice comments, Jigar, you summed up what I wanted to say on this subject but couldn’t express.
March 14th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Well said Jigar.
March 15th, 2007 at 9:55 am
I would ask before reading this that if you intend to simply launch a personal attack on me, please don’t bother either reading or responding. What I say here is not intended to insult or offend anybody and I say it in the spirit of constructive, positive discussion and sharing of ideas, which is how I hope it will be taken. Yes, it would be nice to not feel the need to include a disclaimer in a mature, adult discussion, but such seems to have become the nature of this forum that I feel it appropriate.
By ‘lack of respect’, I’m assuming Jigar is referring to the people who dress perhaps inappropriately for the setting they are in. Maybe this is indeed a lack of respect and these people should be excluded and shunned from the mandir and the community. Or maybe, just maybe, they are the people who need our help more than anyone. If all they wanted to do was go out ‘on the pull’, surely they could just as easily do so in a pub, club or wherever else. The very fact that they are at the mandir in the first place says something. I go back to something I mentioned in a different conversation - the religious or spiritual leaders of the community should be more like doctors than judges; and doctors are needed far more by the ill than by the healthy.
I have been in the past (and often still feel that I am) on the shunned fringes of the Hindu community and can say from my own experience that judgmentalism, accusation and spiritual snobbery are not attractive qualities in a community. I continue to search for faith, I continue to try to do what is right. Sometimes I get it wrong, sometimes I confuse my priorities, sometimes my own insecurities or fear make me do things that on calm, rational thought may be evidently inappropriate. But I try, and so do the people being condemned in this article. So why push them away by condemning and judging them? Would it not be better to help them?
Maybe I am too pink and fluffy for the real Hindus who want everyone to conform to their own personal perceptions of what the religion should be. But I don’t go to the mandir for their benefit, I don’t pray to please them, my relationship with the spiritual is quite frankly none of their business. And if dressing or looking a certain way ‘directly affects the experience of the more religious or spiritually inclined’, perhaps those people need to focus more on their communication with God than on how much make-up the girl stood at the back is wearing. I remember from my readings of Swami Vivekananda, he once said that there should be as many religions as there are people, because each person has a unique and different relationship with the Almighty.
March 15th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Note how Satya reacts when anybody challenges any points he makes and takes it as a personal attack on himself, rather than just a part of discussion, whereas he doesn’t hesitate to mock others’ views or paint anybody who disagrees with him in one camp as ‘intolerant people who want everyone to conform’.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:35 am
satya……you believe that that the people who come to the mandir “dolled” up come for any reason APART from coming to pull?…..open your eyes mate and call a spade a spade.
At Navaratri these very people couldnt care less about the religious sentiment of the occasion. They are there for one thing…becuase they want to pull. You say that they could do this at a club…well yes they could..but why go to a club when you can do it at a mandir?…most of these people are too YOUNG to go to a bar/club etc…so a mandir is an easy place to go and flirt.
I dont buy your suggestion that “atleast they are going to a mandir in the first place”….thats bull.
You suggest that people can wear what they want to….I agree to a certain extent and understand what you mean…BUT…lets put this all into a context please. We live ina society with general norms put in place….I could argue that if you had a daughter and she chose to walk around nude in the streets, that it is HER CHOICE but im guessing that you would not like such behaviour from your daughter. Society has conditioned our minds and such behaviour would be deemed innapropriate. Similarly, wearing a mini skirt to the mandir is not appropriate. Hey, if anyone out there wants to pray in the nude and wear bondage stuff whilst doing so in their OWN HOMES…our around similar minded people, then by all means do so…but lets be frank….in a mandir there are certain standards of decorum we must abide by….and wen, as mentioned above, clothing is worn for a specific reason that has nothing to do with religion, then thats even worse.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
what of the sanyasins at kumbh mela? Is it dress code you want to apply or respect?
I think the issue is really of how our society has failed our youth in giving up on the arranged marriage system and not providing the youth a constructive outlet for their natural desire to find a mate. Our culture, perhaps finding the issue too complex, has given in to the norm of the society in which we live thus letting our young loose with their own constructs of sensuality and sexuality (given by the local culture therefore). Thus it is not the fault of the young that they want to explore their biological instincts at whatever venue they find available. It is the fault of the leadership of a community to fail to provide a more constructive way to manage these drives (ie yes we enjoy the flavor of meat but by using spices etc we can have greater flavor from vegetarian dishes).
hariaum
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 pm
dress code and respect go hand in hand in certain societies. At the Kumbh melas it is acceptable and expected of the naga sadhus to be exactly that-naga. But in Britain as ive written, what you wear CAN indicate your respect. Would you advocate that people turn up to the madir wearing a jock-strap only?…surely that would be tantamount to respect when you consider the context of the situation.
I kind of understand what you are saying Navin..but you miss an important point…people of OTHER faiths dont seem to find it necessary to “explore their biological instincts…” at their places of worship. It seems only to be Hindus that do it. and THATS THE POINT of what many people are saying here.
March 24th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Navin, how can dress code of the ‘sanyasins at kumbh mela’ be applied to non-sanyasins? Dharma is not for providing avenues for ‘exploring biological instincts’. It is there to teach and coax one to lift oneself from a mere biological, animal-like life of basal instincts to one that is good, sublime and fit to be called human and ‘civilised’. It teaches one not to be a slave but a master of them – and this includes such urges like hatred, greed, anger etc too. Any society that allows a free play to them cannot be fit to be called a sane, healthy and liveable human society.
March 26th, 2007 at 2:47 am
I totally agree….This happens at every temple all around the world.Temple is also place to meet future life partner.Dont worry be happy….chant hare krishna…….
March 26th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Dangerous, I hope I don’t come across as mocking as I certainly don’t intend to. However, you do make a good point and I will take it on board and try to do better. I appreciate your comment and thank you for teaching and helping me.
As regards Db8’s views, I fully appreciate what you’re saying and yes, I do agree that the major reason for those people attending the mandir may well be to pull (though often, I think there is simply a fashion show aspect, rather than actually wanting to pull as such). However, my point is that whilst that may be a reason, or even perhaps the main reason, for them being there, that purpose could surely be far better and easier achieved elsewhere; the fact that they are at a mandir means that there is some hope, albeit only a small one. And that, to me, says that these people can be brought back from the brink and what I am trying to suggest, in my own clumsy way, is that they should be helped rather than condemned. I’d rather we welcome them and help them to understand, rather than condemning them and driving them even further from their home and family - i.e. the Hindu samaaj.
March 31st, 2007 at 5:24 pm
I really agree with this article. I’m a teenager ( near birmgham) and i try to make sure i go to the Mandir atleast once a week and make an extra effort to go on Diwali and navrati etc. When i’m not at the Mandir eg. out of school i wear jeans and such but i would never wear them in the Mandir. i always wear a suit.
Its ok to say that these girls who go all”dressed up” are a disgrace and such but that isn’t as true. They come dressed like that because they are modern and its not that they dont respect or love their religion its just that they might not feel confortable in Indian clothes, and so they comein what they feel comfortable in, they still love their god/s and their way of showing it is coming to the Mandir.
I have soo many friends who are Hindu’s and they dont go to the Mandir as often bt they are realli devoted and they all wear jeans and the latest fashion which is tights but they dont go around lookin like slappers they look likerespectable grls and dont go after boys!
April 2nd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
all religions include a way to bring youth together for the purpose of marriage. Social nights, fancy dress balls at the church, muslim parties, LDS singles nights… The young dome together, show off their wares in a socially defined manner, and then go find their luck. You can call it spiritual but it is a sublimation of sexual ego - our animal nature.
On the other hand, I would like to think we can teach others about what true ego sublimation is. The disregard of temporary ideas for eternal ones (nagas are naked to god of social constructs).
Dharma is absolutely about taking natural instincts and driving them to a personal transcendental relationship with truth. Our mind is a biological construct, our ideas are sociological constructs, our moksha is in taking the tools of this human (animal / prakrit) form (soma) and touching the paratman (purusha). To deny our human form, including the bowels, urine, and sexuality is simply running away from the beauty that is god-given (ending up with a bloated blue bugger of a person). Sometimes it is easier to run away from our weakness’ (lust) and say become a monk or a hermit, but it is always better to know them and then overcome them (transcend - to be a true sanyasin as in the Gita). For children, run by rajas as they are, transcendence is not so easy. Marriage is an path from lust to love. Thus our desire for our children to enter into a dharmic life includes marriage. In the past we got them married before they could protest. Now we must find a way to adapt and still allow them entry into this sacrament. If we ignore this rajasic tendency in ourselves and our kids, there is no hope for transcendence, only cowardly flight. Cowardly flight then is overrun by those willing to take advantage of such cowardice - the rakshashas of the world who welcome cowards by rewards denied elsewhere (sex, rajasic foods, murder…).
My reference to the nagas is not a retort against “normal” dress but rather the idea that the clothes define spiritual connectedness. A person that is spiritual is so whether they are naked in the tub or dressed to the hilt for a formal occasion. Modesty is a part of humility and thus to be nurtured. I agree that a temple is a place for modesty. But I’ld rather have my kids pick up a relationship at a temple than a bar.
hariaum
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Well I think its not a matter hindu or sikh or muslim. It’s a mattter of child uppbringing. If she thinks that her parents should be blamed that I think she is right I agree with her.
April 7th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Incidentally, if these girls (or boys) are going to go out and pull anyway, is it not preferable that they do so with other Hindus rather than going out and getting involved with others (note link with Islamic conversion issue)..
April 9th, 2007 at 8:54 am
This may not have much to do with the subject in discussion here. But i remember we have had too long discussions about child abuse and Hare Krishna etc when they got permission for a school. I am not belonging to any of these groups..just felt that it might be good for all of us to reflect on what Dr Ambedkar had said and also on the article link to which is given below:
++++++++++
“Dr. Madhukar Ambekar” wrote:
Dear Gautam
The facts remain as “immortal truth”.
Not many Christian Organisations or Individuals (as an self appointed experts) have ever criticised such acts against their own faiths or beliefs.
There is lot to learn as to How to organise ourselves as Hindus.
Dr.Ambekar
On 9 Apr 2007, at 06:55, Gautam Sen wrote:
> http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2434945.ece
>
> FYI