Krishna’s War Ethics
Was Krishna unfair and biased in the way that he dealt between the Pandavas and Kauravas? Were his war ethics, which on a number of occasions involved a disregard for the pre-ordained rules of warfare, justifiable? These are common questions that are brought up against Shri Krishna. How can such incidents be explained?
January 29th, 2007 at 3:26 am
there has been unnecessary and undue criticism of bhagavad gita and lord krishna because of the policy of violence of the war
however in today’s world the issue of just war has been raised on both sides
who have both indulged in transgression of the war code
hindu philosophy has always stood for non-violence and non-huting in thought word and deed
india is fighting terrorism by not invading the territory beyond the borders
is this according to our hindu philosophy
i am keen to know about the ‘just war’ theory
kindly reply on my email
dr badlani
January 29th, 2007 at 3:48 am
Hello,
As you say it is suicidal not to practice the Dharma of living and protecting one’s family and this is the main premise of the Bhagavad-Gita. This view stops us from adhering to waffly ideologies that come and go that could jeopardize one’s own future and that of the family.
see work “Divine Initiation” page 64 to help elucidate the nature of Krishna further available from Amazon.com
January 29th, 2007 at 7:28 am
In the original version of Mahabharata i.e. Bharata narrated by Vaishampayan to Janamejaya, Maharshi Vyasa did not take sides between Kauravas and Pandavas. He mentions impartially the unethical deeds of both. He even describes how the sky shone bright, gandharvas played music and gods from heaven showered flowers on Duryodhana when he announced that he had lived righteously and since he had died in a battle he will go to heaven while Shri Krishna and the Pandavas who had used dirty tricks to win the war will linger on this earth. He also tells how Shri Krishna justified the unethical stratagems to win the war on the basis of exigencies. It was Suta who introduced for the first time a partiality towards Pandavas making them the symbol of good and Kauravas the symbol of evil. He presented arguments to justify the dirty tricks by inventing stories of curses passed on Duryodhana and other Kauravas for unrighteous behaviour. This transformed Mahabharata into a history of conflict between good and evil, something against the principle of impartial historical analysis.
However it is true that Shri Krishna was a most pragmatic person. He was a great statesman and could look far in future as can be seen when he shifted his capital to Dwaraka to avoid trouble from Jarasandha. But for him India would have been loaded with an unethical kingdom of Kauravas. The very end justifies the means. Duryodhana as a king was no doubt a good ruler but his underlying jealous nature supported by his equally unethical friends had already created a havoc in the region. Yudhishtira thoufgh a symbol of morality was a very weak king and though supported by Arjuna and Bhima it was only Shri Krishna who could save the Pandavas.
January 29th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Its very simple, if your enemy is not following rules, you cant win war if you continue to follow. Kaurava’s broke rules at many ocassions during war. It would have been foolish to follow rules and then lose war. Rules can be in place as far as both sides honour it.
January 29th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
The power of Dharma is immense it binds both gods and men . . . . choose to forgo the rules at your own risk . .. . he who understands the low of karma bears the conseuquence which is pain but no longer suffers. Break the rules of Dharma and you lose the power of righteousness which can be used against Braman himself.
January 30th, 2007 at 12:37 am
Dear brotherrs and sisters;
This kind of discussion should not come out from Hindu. All Hindu first understand Hindus’ scripture, purpose of Incarantions of ParamBrahma, as Krishna.
Mahabharat war was tried all possible ways by Shri krishna not to happen, but unrighteous Duryodhana was not ready for any compromise, then He had to allow the war. Yet in such a world war he did not partake Himself, but only He stood with Pandava side, THE RIGHTEOUS SIDE. Neverthless He had to connive at the deaths of Abhimanyu, Ghatotkacha, Bhim’s son, Draupadi’s sons for His Avataar Karya.( purpose of His incarnation as Krishna, and to change from Dwapar to kali yug. )
Padmakant Khambhati
Sanatan Hindu Center, Houston Texas USA
January 30th, 2007 at 3:27 am
I think MahaBharatha is nothing but a book or an epic by Author Veda Vyasa. Sri Krishna was portrayed as statesman and as a protector of righteous living. That is the ultimate goal as announced in Bhagavat Geetha. Whatever it takes to uphold Dharma, the righteousness was what aimed at and accomplished for the welfare of humans, since MahaBharatha and Ramayana are the back bones for Hindu living.
If we accept Lord Sri krishna as the Almighty, how can he be bound by the rules meant for humans? He has a much larger task of maintaining peace and sanctity in human world. While I cannot comprehend the inability of Arjuna to defeat Bhishma, Drona, Karna after having fought with Lord Shiva Himself, the ultimate Truth is that Bad guys lose and good guys win. So be it.
Sai Ram!
January 31st, 2007 at 11:35 pm
It took the west 1500 years after their god was born to keep civilians out of the battle (noteably this was when the church was losing power in europe). Yet in the Mahabharata the segregation of war away from the cities is clearly identified.
Further, they discuss explicitly why they have gone to war and it is debated.
Further, rules of war are designed to keep dammage controlled (not fighting at night)
This was no early primitive group. This was an advanced society unequalled until the 1500’s. All this, though, is irrelevant to Vyasa. The human conflict is the key. The backdrop is taken for granted, and in this backdrop, is a clear ethic of warfare that is still not practiced by the west and perhaps poorly (or too well) practiced by India.
There is much for hinduism to teach the world.
hariaum
February 1st, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Namaste
What a wonderful piece, showing what a great man Krishna was. He could see the future, examine and analyze his every action, what effect it would have for the future generation and act for the good his people.
He even left his beloved homeland, as it would have involved him in endless battle and founded Dwarka, on the shores of the Indian Ocean.
He had the knack of analysing every situation and come up with ace. He even saw the faultline in his own dynasty and the terrible end of the Yadav clan.
He had no choice but to support Pandavas, after the way they behave in trying to undress Draupadi in a court full of wise old men, try to kill Pandavas in a palace built of inflamable material and would not give even an inch of land.
This is the story, the struggle between good and evil, what is good for the masses and not a selected few.
Krishna did not go after instant fame nor he surrounded himself with yes men but sought the opinion of his elders, gurus and even learned adversaries.
I can not help but wonder where Bharat would be today if only leaders who fought for independence, likes of Gandhi and Nehru had such a foresight, could have seen the future which was too obvious for many leaders, after the death of over a million people during the partition. So this is not trying to be wise after the event.
There were leaders who indeed saw the future, leaders like Sardar Patel, C. Raj Gopalachari, Veer Savarkar and Din Dayal Updhaya, a few amongst many.
But they did not have the clout or the charisma of Gandhi and Nehru, although Sardar was the choice of the vast majority of the Congress leaders to be the first PM of India.
Well, that is water under the bridge.
Bhupendra
February 1st, 2007 at 9:26 pm
I dont think Lord Krishna’s policies in the Mahabharat War were wrong. They are excelent tatics in my opinion. I don’t think either the Pandav’s or Kaurav’s were cowardly either.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:10 am
One should seperate out Sri Krishna of Bhagwat Gita and Sri Krishna of Mahabharat. Sri Krishna in Bhagwat Gita is the reincarnation of Brahman trying to clean up our misunderstanding of the Sanatan Dharma.
Among the fundamental duties of a devotee `non-violence` is one of the most important. However, non-violence does not mean nonresistance ( of Gandhiji). Non-violence does not exclude fighting to defend the poor, defenceless folks to do one`s duty even to the extent of destruction but not to disregard the Dharma.
It was Arjuna`s duty to fight against the evils of Kuru empire and its evil friends, other kings supporting the Kurus. Thus, Sri Krishna provoked Arjun to do his duty; that is not violence.
However, Sri Krishna of Mahabharat is different. While one was not permitted to change anything in the Bhagwat Gita, because of its supreme importance, but one could rewrite or add different stories or interpret differently the Mahabharat, which was rewritten many times over the period of about 6000 years. Thus, many different stories are there which may seems contradictory. That is also true about Ramayana.
February 3rd, 2007 at 11:50 am
One good thing about Hindu Voice uk is that it brings out very interesting topics for the readers to think. In the last issue there was Gita and again in this issue there is Gita, but both from different perspectives. What is the advantage of these topics is the discussions, views and one who thinks over the views finds a lot of new areas to look into in improving ones’ understanding.
However, I for one find it very difficult to understand what DBji is trying to express this time. The very first sentence of his posting ” One should separate out the Krishna of Maha Bharata from Krishna of Gita …” brings out the IDIOT in me - makes me blink. Gita is part of Maha Bharata and how could one separate Krishna of Bharata from Krishna of Gita? Pardon me for my IGNORANCE.
Dr Shirvaikarji has expressed something new as far as I am concerned. I am sure there are many others who feel the same way as me and may be some who feel the way Dr Shirvaikarji feels. But would love to have more on that. Do we need to understand that there are two Maha Bharatas - of Vyasa - one original and one extended version adding new stories by people who felt they need to add new stories?
Padmakant khambhatiji feels that such discussions should not have come from ‘hindu’. Padmakantji tells us that we need to understand the purpose of Parabrhma as Krishna etc…
Lorenzo Capitaniji has stated something very interesting…the ” law of Karma and Dharma ” ..
My own feelings are that we should not be afraid of discussing any topic, any part of the topic since, if we do not know what it tries to teach us or make us think or analyse, then we will not be able to act upon as the ignorance that we have will confuse us at the time of decision making which affects our FREE WILL TO ACT or perform the ACTION. So it is good to discuss in as much detail as possible.
I hope more and more readers come out with their views- whatever it be - so that we all can learn something more than we knew already and thus remove any misunderstanding that we have or that we had.
namaskaram
February 3rd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Well anyone who has watched 24 would know that Jack Bauer breaks the rules for the better good all the time.and that’s exactly what Lord Krishna is explaining to Arjun that sometimes the rules we set can also imprison us to even to the extent of destroying us so for the sake of Dharma we have to break those rules.
February 5th, 2007 at 7:00 am
It is extremely improper to bring this topic, out of context. One must understand the entire context, the logic behind the final Mahabharat war, WHY? The rule of the war is: If both parties are fighting on religious principles, then the war should be fought on the religious principles. But the Kauravs did not maintain any codes of Ethic and killed Abhimanyu by very treacherous plot. Kauravs actions from the very young age until Mahabharat were full of criminal activities.
Though the rightfull owners of the kingdom were Pandavs but yet they were negotiating with the rascals to get simply five villages. Read below Duryodhan’s dirty game plan.
Anyway, we will try to give a brief answer.
Pandavs compromised and negotiated with Kauravs but failed - even went to jungles for 12 years and one year in total hiding where they could not be traced, otherwise the same punishment reapply for another 12 more years, and so on so forth. It was a very severe punishment imposed by evil people. Think about the pains and sufferings, Pandavs had faced by compromising and yielding to the impetuous desires of Duryodhan. (Continue………)
Swami Reghunath Das
February 5th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Bhagwan Sri Krishn tried every diplomacy to help negotiate with Kauravs but unjustified Duryodhan did not pay heed to anyone, including grandfather Bhism and Bhagwan Sri Krishn.
After Pandavs returned from exile (12 years later), evil Duryodhan refused to keep up with his promise of giving 5 villages to Pandavs. Materialistic Duryodhana told Bhagwan Sri Krishn (when He visited Duryodhan’s court) that he would not allow Pandavs to have even that much space where a needle could be inserted. Duryodhan even sent his powerful men to attack Sri Krishn Bhagwan, when He had just left Duryodhan’s court.
NEW SCENARIO: Duryodhan reached the palace of Lord Krishn and sat close to the head, while Krishn Bhagwan was still at sleep. Arjun arrived later and sat near the feet of Bhagwan Sri Krishn. See the difference between the arrogant Duryodhan and a polite devotee Arjun. Knowing the qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishn Bhagwan, Arjun sat near the Bhagwan’s feet, not near the head. Duryodhan proved again his puffed-up, egocentric qualities while Arjun remained a humble servant of Sri Krishn Bhagwan….. (CONTINUE ……..)
Swami Rehunath Das
February 7th, 2007 at 3:22 am
HINDU VOICE.CO.UK: Who are you behind, infiltrating in the name of Hinduism? Are you being paid to contaminate and confuse the Hindu minds, further? Why don’t you write that Jesus making wine caused the total destruction of human’s spiritual suicide?
Your this dirty mission will bind you with a terrible negative Karma, without any recourse.
We advice you, not to write any nonsense in your Hindu Voice.co.UK. This is not a business. It is very serious offense.
February 7th, 2007 at 3:42 am
HINDU VOICE.CO.UK: YOU SOUND LIKE SUPPORTING THE AGENDA OF THE RAPISTS, DRUNKARDS, WOMANIZER, MURDERERS, CHILD ABUSERS, INCESTUOUS. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE BY SUCH FOOLISH WRITINGS: ‘Krishna’s War Ethics?
You are infiltrating in Hinduism through your very dirty subtle proselytizing propaganda. This is exactly what the British did. You better stop it. You are already on our watch list.
http://www.hinduunity.org/
February 8th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Radhe S. Tewari you moron, who cares about your stupid watchlist, lol you ever did anything against even one of the people on that so called watch list?
Keep hiding behind your PC cuz one of these days someone might get you and your fellow retards, I heard they took down your site’s message board, so do something to help yourself first and then you can talk about others.
February 8th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
“You are infiltrating in Hinduism through your very dirty subtle proselytizing propaganda. This is exactly what the British did. You better stop it. You are already on our watch list.â€
You lot sound like some Muslim terrorists.
Hindu Voice has raised a good question not out of spite but out of education.
Its these sort of questions Hindus are attacked upon by Muslims and Christians on many forums.
Our Hindu youth have no answers to these sort of questions.
Its only when I come and ask other intelligent Hindus here and other Hindu forums that I find my answers.
There is some Christians attacking our ‘Karma theroy’ and putting up and intelligent debate to demonise us.
How do I answer these evil guys whose sole purpose is to destroy our religion?
By asking the same question to other Hindus. I can get educated and wise up to what I should answer. Reading purans after purans are not going to get me wisdom in todays evil world.
How dare you threaten HINDU VOICE with your petty mindedness and call yourself Hindu and UNITY.
If you truly want to wage a war then lets see your intelligent answer to this question.
This forum has educated me much to fight back intelligently. I am fighting my own Dharma Yudh against nonHindus with intellgence and not threats.
Threats are made by weak people who have no Knowledge.
You must now apologise to Hindu Voice UK if you have any sanskar or have any true concern for our Dharma. If even you are a REAL PERSON FROM HINDU UNITY???
For all I know you could be a nonhindu out to destroy this website.
Prove who say you are by apologising and supporting us.
February 9th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
om shanti om
pls do not forget the ethos of all eastern philosophy (jainism, Hinduisn Sikhism and Buddhism) is non violence! we must not argue or even think bad to fellow brothers or sisters. This forum is not set up to argue , we must understand hinduism , as our brother said others attack eastern dharma WE MUST UNDERSTAND OUR RELIGION!!!
Krishna uses symbols and metaphors to tell us about the meaning of life ……..arjuna was just like us …a lost devotee …he alos questioned the meaning of life and was confused like us …..look to gita for rightous path , Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world and has faced many struggles do not forget that we do not read our scriptures and understand the openess of the hindu dharma ……..many Hindu communities outside India are under threat from attack , they still are devout to their faith and do not argue on petty issues of propoganda….
jai sri krishna
jai siva jai durga
February 10th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
rdhe s tewari, you certainly can put my name on your stupid watchlist. we are not afraid of your likes. people like you are lower than a snakes belly.
February 10th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Those from Hindu Untiy who are clever enough, why dont you defend this attack!!
KARMA
Main weblink
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity
Please post your replies to him there
http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/browse_thread/thread/e47cc0139bb1dda3
February 21st, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Hindu abuse is also taking place on their BBC messageboards.
The BBC have a ‘messageboard’ where anyone can post what they like.
They have clear policy about what to post on their message boards, but the board is being abused and the BBC are turning a blind eye to these posts.
Their policy is
“Postings to BBC messageboards will be removed if they:
* Are considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others
* Are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or
otherwise objectionable
* Contain swear words (including abbreviations or alternative
spellings) or other language likely to offend
Content considered to have been posted with an intention to disrupt the message boards will be removed.â€
However when you read some of the posts made on the message boards there is a clear indication of PROVCATION, ATTACK ON HINDUS, ABUSIVE TO INDIANS and OFFENSIVE posts about India.
I need people on this group to view the many messages on ANITA RANI board and IF they provoke and anger you and find them offensive or racist then please complain to the BBC Asian Network.
They will not be able to ignore many of our e-mails.
Anyway you all decide. Read through the history of the many topics.
MAIN
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbasiannetwork
ANITAs website where many offending posts are posted
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbasiannetwork/F4154526
March 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Karen Armstrongs book…The Great Transofrmation…has a fascinating section on this. I’m just reading through it now and its a real eye opener. Highly recommended.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 am
Namaste.
As a Hindu, I believe that Bhagawan Shri Krishna is the Supreme Lord. He is the Absolute Truth and He is perfect. I would assume that you have the same beliefs since you are a Hindu website.
Humans are prone to err. As such, we are not perfect. Our senses are not perfect either. We cannot see into the past or future or even around a corner. Being imperfect, we do not have perfect information and thus, we cannot criticise the Lord who is in fact perfect. It is after all the Lord who has created this universe and He dictates what is considered right or wrong.
However, it is not wrong to be inquisitive. We should question how and why things are done on our culture. I recommend that you approach an authority on the subject to find out more. By an authority, I mean someone who is qualified by means of disciplic succession.
Jai Shri Krishna!