Swami Ramdev accused of insulting Mahatma Gandhi
No stranger to controversy, legendary yoga-guru Swami Ramdev has once again ignited the wrath of irate protestors, who accuse him of insulting the memory of Mahatma Gandhi.
Whilst teaching yoga to Army personnel in Madhya Pradesh, Swami Ramdev expressed his belief that the freedom of India was achieved by the “sacrifice of martyrs” and not through non-violent methods alone. He is quoted as saying “I am a follower of penance, sacrifice, non-violence and truth, but am also a follower of revolutionaries…if somebody says that the country achieved independence without arms, without bloodshed, I believe it is an insult to the country’s martyrs”.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
I agree with what Swami Ramdev said. Mahatma Gandhi introduced the West to non-violence as a way of protest and by his sheer determination wore the British Raj down. But we musn’t forget that all the people who died during that struggle - DO NOT FORGET Jalianwala Bagh !- helped the freedom struggle. Each martyrdom stirred more people onto the resistance and gradually it acquired such a momentum that the British Government had to relent. The world war and its economic impact also contributed to our Freedom. It is preposterous, naive and very immature for the Congress Party to deny the Martyrs theire fair share of Glory.
December 26th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Hi I truly believe in Swami Ramdev has said, it is unfortunate that people
of India have forgotten those who laid their life for the freedom of country (I don’t have to cite any examples here we all know famous one and there are numerous unsung heros as well who made the small but significant difference in their way), and give credit to one man only is unfair and unjust.
Current crop of congress party members have no right to defend Mahatma Ghandi, for they are the ones who do not follow on his footsteps.
Don’t get me wrong Mr Mohan Das Karamchand Ghandi as Mahatama is true representation of him, as no one in recent history has shown such, selflessness, sacrifice and humility than him, If we worship him as god will not be wrong. However, as a political leader I beg to differ.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Great article and yes I believe Swami Ramdev was correct, Gandhi got independance as the PM at the time, true, but only because the British saw nothing left in India and themselves were suffering the pangs of WW2. They knew they had already robbed the riches of India in the past 100 years before independance and had nothing left to gain from it, so they gave independance to stop trouble from the martyrs rather than because of Gandhi protesting.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Mahatma Gandhi ji played an important role and so did our many freedom fighters of all castes, creeds and religions. Why are the Congress Youth behaving like idiotic louts? Can’t they understand a simple and easily understandable statement made by Swami Ramdev ji. I am one of his Yog disciples but you don’t have to be to understand what he has said - although a bit of clear breathing may help them to open up their closed minds!
December 26th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
I think we need more people like Swami Ramdev to bring out the truth that it was not gandhi but lots of people who sacrified their lives for the independence. As for gandhi, he has blood of milions of Hindus on is hands. How can people call him father of Bharat when Bharat had been there for time immemorial. He is the father of country called pakistan, which gandhi created. As for congress party, in the last fifty years of their rule, they have brought more misery to Hindus than the british rule of two hundre years.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Typical Congress Party - too scared to combat terrorism but too ready to take out a decent, humble Hindu Indian who is trying to unite Indians of all faiths by the science of the Vedas.
Nothing the esteemed Swami Ramdev said was incorrect. Originally founded by a english man and now led by a non-indian, Congress until the Bhagat Singh incident only wanted to have self rule. Then with the rise of Bose and the blood scarifice of others, the Congress-wallas decided to ask for full independance.
but as Travis Bickle says in the film Taxi Driver
“Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets”
Someday a Divine Monsoon will come and wash this scum into the sea and take with them the godless communists as well.
Make no mistake, the non-violence of Independence was built of the foundation of split blood and butchered flesh of many unknown indians of all creeds and customs.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
ghandi never got independence by peace he only made a comprmise to get half(or less) of india. how can india be free without having sindh
(where the hindus originated from)
furthermore if ghandhi’s group got “independence”by peace can achieve anything peacefully then why are his disciples using violence now.
December 26th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
The independence was gained through the sacrifice of many, not by any one politician, however much he or she may have contributed to the cause.
Ramdev Ji is absolutely right to point out the contribution of many who laid down their lives for the cause and that include Subash Chandra Bose, Bhagat Singh and all those who lost their lives at Jalyanwala Bag massacre, in the Black Hall of Calcutta and throughout the freedom struggle going back to the beginning of the 20th Centuary.
The leaders of today’s Congress are doing more harm than good to Bharatversh. They use Gandhi name for political propoganda, although Sonia Gandhi has nothing to do with Mahatma Gandhi.
Bhupendra
December 26th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
I think Mr Ramdev should stick to Yoga, Patanjali and pranayama. He does have a tendency to be carried away by his own self arrogance. His appreciation of independence struggle lacks insight and his understanding of human body is almost superstitious. He fails to see the immense contribution made by Mahatma Gandhi simply because he is inclined favourably towards the inherent savagery of right wing Hinduism which has largely contributed to the decadence of the Hindu society and its evils. It is no secret that before Mahatma Gandhi set his stamp on the Indian scene the congress party was largely made of and for brown Sahibs who had very little respect for their fellow Indians. It was Gandhiji who woke them up and gave us Sardar Patel and Pandit Nehru.
The issue is not that others did not make any contribution or not but the fact that it was Gandhiji that made India into one nation by winning the support from so many without violence. India would be fragments of hundred nations. It also must be remembered that Gandhiji was always against partion. The right wing Hindus were way behind in making any positive contribution to India at that time and at present time. They were contantly preoccupied to their primitive caste system and how to consolidate at any cost.
Lastly Gandhiji wanted nothing to do with the Congress party close to independence and was very much infavour of disbanding it.
Congress has hijacked Gandhiji as their property and the opposition have played squrely into their hands including Mr Ramdev who likes to make emotional political statements beyond his brief but the masses love it as they are happy to surrender their rational thinking.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
the agitation by the congress camp-followers against a statement of Swami Ramdev shows how they are opposed to freedom of speech and thought unless that falls within the politically-correct stereotypes espoused by them. Saying that India’s freedom was achieved only by Gandhian non-violence amopunts to disrespect towards the revolutionaries like Subhash Bose, Bhagat Singh, Chandrasekhar Azad, Veer Savarkar who fought with their life against the British. This denial is sheer treachery and only the Congressmen which could not find a single ethnic Indian to lead them and found a messiah in an Italian Catholic fundamentalist, can be so treacherous. If non-violence is the sole factor, then why there should be the armed forces? Why thses politicians are surrounded by armed security-guards?
We the common men believe that what Swami Ramdev has said is truth and nothing but true.
December 26th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
wait a minate…. I thought what Ramdev said was “”I am a follower of penance, sacrifice, non-violence and truth, but am also a follower of revolutionaries…if somebody says that the country achieved independence without arms, without bloodshed, I believe it is an insult to the country’s martyrs”.
Nowhere in the above does he say the word Gandhi.
Now coming back to dear Mr Dawda’s assertation that Gandhi brought the nation together shows a complete lack for respect for the others on whose shoulders Gandhi stood on to create the nation called India and it was technically Vallabhai Patel who got the princely states to become part of the union.
According to Vinod-bhai the caste system is primative and all hindus are right wing… again is that not an insult on the Veda’s as the system of demarcation was laid out in that…
so this begs the questions what kind of hindu are you Mr Dawda… are you one of those secular, liberal “hindu” who believes that Indian history started and ended with Gandhi???
Interesting how you put down so many so those Indians who gave their life for the country, and then insult the Veda’s and presume that Ramdev is arrogant… because he uttered an opionion.
Last time I woke up I thought India was a democracy… a lot of the barbs that you have cast could be directed to you.
But then again with people like you who needs enemies… you seem to preface the word “hindu” with right wing… do you work for the BBC by chance or are you a big pharma backed doctor???
and as for hindu’s not making a positive contribution what contribition have you and yours made??
at least Ramdev is trying to help those who are sick and tired of being given drugs, he at least is bringing back the ancient hindu art of healing…
interesting chat this….
JB
December 26th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
IT IS UNFORTUNATE that congress wants to meddle with Hindu Saint’s words who is serving the humanity.
Ramdevji is a Saint and therefore above all. According to Hindu scriptures, Saint is above everyone including Gandhiji.
If Gandhiji were alive today then he would bow to Ramdevji as Vedas says Bramhanosya Mukhamaseet, Bahu Rajanyah Krutah… in Purushasukta.
Ramdevji’s words are perfect as we are not acknowledging enough, the help of all our martyrs, Subahsh Chandra Bose, Vir Savarkar, Veer Bhagatsingh, Ramprasad Bismil and countless others who paid with their blood and family.
For the independence, we owe a great deal to Gandhiji, martyrs and a lot of other people.
Let us not listen to the one way traffic of Congress who wants to worship only one family as Gods and without that family they would have identity crisis.
Hemang Bhatt
December 26th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
My salutations to Swami Ramdevji. I totally agree with his comments, and believe the actions of the congress party to be totally inappropriate, and so what against the teachings of Pujya Gandhiji.
Long Live Swami Ram Devji
Priti
December 27th, 2006 at 2:01 am
Mr JackB certainly has got the wrong end of the stick and like to jump before he can see. However he likes democracy and so do I. I just do not understand where he draws his conclusions. I can now see how Congress followers could have derived their conclusions.
As far as how the nation came together he best advised to read further. I have not claimed that Gandhi was the only person neither have I claimed that all Hindus are right wing. I am a Hindu and I know what I am saying.
I am not sure if it is OK to get emotional in public as the reason gets lost in the process.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:46 am
All persons have a right to their opinion, which includes Baba Ramdev as well.
However more importantly, I believe Baba Ramdev merely was giving respect to the forgotten heros of that time period. Furthermore, I am not even sure that one can make a reasonable argument that Baba Ramdev disrespected Babuji.
My sincerely respects for Baba Ramdev ji.
Thanks
Aneeta Maheshwari
December 27th, 2006 at 4:26 am
Not only should we remember the sacrifice of millions of martyrs, but pay true respect to the teachings of the Mahatma who all alone stood for the principle of non violence and as such awoke the entire world to the non justice of the imperial powers…..so carry on baba ramdev…..let those who do not wish to give credit remain blind
December 27th, 2006 at 4:54 am
How some one can be advised to stick to his job(yoga) and not to comment on other matters? Afterall Swami Ramdev is also an Indian citizen and have all those rights enjoyed by others from the President to a bottom man who does not have interest in politics and vote to create legislation only.The war for independence of India from British empire was started in 19th centanery and millions of Indians lost their lives and all those should be remembered. Not only Mahatma who agreed for division of the country to get quick independence and to make his beloved Nehru to preside over the first legislation of independent India and also to divert attention from the freedom fighters like Subhash Chandra Bose who lost his whole life for the nation.
One can easily understand how bias was Mahatma. Congress leaders should understand that if they start discussion, it will highlight all the past reflecting personal love of Mahatma who wanted to make Nehru a HERO and gave consent to hang Shahid Bhagat Singh and others…..
December 27th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
I agree with many of your readers…Gandhi did not bring freedom to India. The real freedom was fought 50-100 years before Gandhi appeared on the scene. Gandhi merely appeared on the scene when Britain had allready decided that India was no longer worth keeping, bearing in mind that the Labour Party was in power then. At the turn of the 20th century…Gandhi was a nervous and frightened young lawyer working on a case in my country , South Africa. SA matured him and by the time he left the shores to “fight” for Indian “freedom” , most of the ground work was already done and all that was still pending was to “crown” a freedom fighter and Gandhi was the ideal candidate.
How can one call a man a freedom fighter when we lost two thirds of Bengal, Sind, more than half of Punjab , a third of Kashmir and the decimation of virtually the entire Hindu population in “Pakistan” and abandoning a subdued and terrorised Hindu minority in East Bengal.To crown it all we were not allowed to “touch” the local Muslim for fear that “Babuji” will starve himself to death. In the meantime and currently the minorities in India continue to multiply with full steam ahead and the Hindu minorities elsewhere dwindles in numbers.
Congress , especially the current version is a bunch of hoodlums,thugs and bullies who are not capable of electing an Indian to lead them. They need to be led by a foreigner and a Catholic at that. May God (or a miracle?) save India.
Jai Hind.
Jai Shri Krishna…
December 27th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
What is this big ho ha about gandhiji and Ramdev. India is the world largest democratic country and everyone has a freedom of speech. Congess got to clear their own house first before accusing Ramdev of anything.
December 27th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Jai Sri Krishna.
India is the land of many Gods and Godessess, a land where mere mortals can become Gods themselves, and today we see that Gandhi Bapu and the Nehru dynasty have been installed with Shiva, Krishna and Rama. Its rather ironic that the anti-Hindutva and secular congress party promote this worship-like respect of a national figure. Anyone working in the political and secular domain as Ghandiji did can and should be scrutinised. Thats how a democratic system works!!! And im sure if Bapu was alive today he would appreciate criticism and scrutiny. Bapu did some amazing things but he was an idealist, so 100% ahimsa can never work.
The congress party should stick to the democratic ideals of free speech and respect comments made by any citizen. like wise Swamiji’s comment should not ne misinterpretated, Swamiji was merely drawing attention to the many heros and heroines other than Gandhi bapu who sacrificed their life for our freedom.
Vande Mataram
December 29th, 2006 at 3:52 am
The poster “behead those who insult Gandhi” on your site is diametrically apposed to the views of Gandhi. Gandhi would never have advocated such insightment to violence. People who advocated such views and call themselves Gandhian are either ignorant or have an axe to grind against the Swami. From my knowledge of the history of India, there was violence before and after independance, inspite of Gandhi’s teaching of non-violence and it is only proper to pay tribute to those who sacrifice their lives for India’s independance; people were beaten to death who joined Gandhi on his demonstrations; don’t they deserve praise?
I think these people who are protesting should try and find out more about the views of the Swami, whether he is apposed to Gandhi’s teaching or not and in what sense. They should also try to understand the meaning of non-violence, do they want India to lay down her arms and surrender to her enemies around her.
I think India should not preach violence but she should be prepared to overcome the violence that is confronting her.
Nehru Lall
December 29th, 2006 at 12:12 pm
Swami Ramdev is a citizen of my country. He has all the freedom that the constitution provides. The people, especially like those of Vinod Dawda, may not know much of our struggle for freedom. Our history books should also teach the philosophy of those who have shed their blood for the very purpose.
Can those who counter Swami, explain the human hunt that has taken place at Jalian wala bagh whcih the Raj regrets as a simple act of hunting caged animals.
Remember General Dyer Order “Fire”.
Its the Khaki clad Indians who pumped bullets into those innocent men. women anbd children.
Its the khaki clad Indians who lathied the Indians at the Dandi.
Our history is a mixture of Yes’s and No’s with But’s.
There is no use of critisising any one. But walk with the lessons learnt from the pages of history.
Let our country not be the ” Conquered land” of all the races again.
December 29th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
In my opinion there is no father of the nation, but we have mother India (Bharat Mata). I have never heard Bharat Pita. In the name of Gandhiji they want to carry on achieving their political goals. We have gained independece for last 60 years and still carrying the policy of reservation in the name of lower caste etc. In Hindu scriptures there is no mention of caste system. If congress think that our mrtyrs gave their life in vain then they are insulting our Bharat Mata.
December 30th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
Full respect to Ghandi ji & his phylosophy.I would like to say ,war between China & India ,three war between Pakistan & India & now continus war against Islamic terrorism ,Naxalism & other sepratist groups& stability of India & economic growth of in India ,hope in future India become a super power it is very nesserary to have very ,very strong army of India.
December 30th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
Time to retort to Mr Dawda,
Thanks this is cool.
“Mr JackB certainly has got the wrong end of the stick and like to jump before he can see”
Last time i had my eyes checked I had good vision. And as I am not a pack animal with four legs I am not inclined to jump for anyone.
“However he likes democracy and so do I. I just do not understand where he draws his conclusions”
I draw my conclusions from your article and what you have “said” in between the lines.
“I can now see how Congress followers could have derived their conclusions.”
“As far as how the nation came together he best advised to read further. I have not claimed that Gandhi was the only person neither have I claimed that all Hindus are right wing.”
I have read extensively both here and in India of the the struggle for Independence.
“I am a Hindu and I know what I am saying.”
Just becuase you are a Hindu does not mean that you know everything. And are you saying that I am not? As if you are then you obviously have not idea of what you are talking about.
“I am not sure if it is OK to get emotional in public as the reason gets lost in the process.”
Reason is like beauty it is in the eye and mind of the beholder. What could be reasonable to you may be unreasonable to others.
As for emotion… hey it is what fueled the struggle of independence in the first place… I am sure that Bapu and all the others had emotion and displayed in public and this is why they got to where they did.
Sitting at a computer and taking about reason and arrogantly telling others thay they are wrong - you seem like a person who want to be an armchair quarterback.
But then again this is only my opinion… I maybe wrong
January 1st, 2007 at 1:01 am
I am not going to sympathize with Gandhi supporters. Quite honestly, look at how violent muslims are! And it is this violence that cause the civilised world to bend down on their knees and conduct favours for them to appease them. How can a man who is wearing a chadee be called the father of the nation? why does all the glory go towards one man who simply hiked from one end of the country to the other and claimed to have kicked the british out. There were revolutionaries who were hanged, maimed, and tortured in prision as they chose death for freedom. Also Gandhi philosophies advocated freedom of thought as well as freedom of speech so we have every right to criticise or insult gandhi if we want to.
-Muski
January 1st, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Let us assume that JackB knows so much more. I guess it is fine to go ahead with orgy of violence and hate. I for one choose otherwise. I am probably an armchair quarterback and I have no business fanning the flames of violence unless I am willing to be in the frontline. Have fun !
January 1st, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Arjun stood in the frontline and was commanded in his orgy of violence (only 10 survived the MH war) by our illustrious Lord Shree Krishna.
I have personally had people threathening to burn my home etc for my writing. But I still continue knowing that Lord Shree Krishna awards those of might.
Look at Europe, America, Australia, South Africa, Japan, China, Korea etc God stands by these openly Imperialist, War Mongering, Intrusive and racist nations.
Who dares wins Gods Good Fortune.
Veda Shakti!
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:13 am
Dear Deeno
So, oh learned friend, Krsna says who dares wins??? nothing about truth and wisdom?
Reading comments like yours, no wonder India is in such a state!!!
On one side we have the honest and trustworthy (!!!) politicians condeming comments which have been given meaning by those very politicians - namely, that Swami Ramdev has insulted the Great Mahatma Gandhi (dont worry how the great Mahatma’s name got attached), then we have the Mullas claiming that all glorious India is the next Islamic state, then we have the virtuous Hindus who want the world to know that “who dares wins Gods Good Fortune” and this is what is in which Puran, Veda or Gita Sloka??? (I know, dont ask). So, what is the result - Gor Kali Yuga??? Let’s burn images like the lovely mullas of anyone we disagree with yes???
Where do you people get educated? Don’t you know that the world can read your comments??? Have you forgotten that the poor illiterate untouchables are not your audience anymore???
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I entirely agree with Swami Ram Dev - Gandhiji’s nonviolence alone would not have brought us independence in 1947.Gandhiji was certainly a very significant player in our freedom struggle but we should acknowledge and honour the many thousands of other freedom fighters who gave their lives for the country. Swami Ramdev is not denying Gandhiji’s contribution, but he is reminding the nation of all the other valiant people without whose sacrifices independence would not have been achieved.
The present Congress Party’s policies and actions seem nonsensical to most thinking Indians . If Gandhiji was living today he would have denounced many of Congress’s policies and leaders and he would have resigned from that party.
January 2nd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Dilip
So my comment was a little frivilous. However, everyone seems to miss the fact that The Good Lord said to Arjun “Lift your weapon and destroy your foes…..” God is saying commit to the action of war.
Everyone instead labours on ‘the truth, wisdom, ahimsa, rajsik, tamsik, atmaa, jeewa atmaa etc….’ whilst our kin are being hurt daily.
? What is your solution?
? Have given any money to the people of this site or others eg. Shaktimarg, HinduHumanRights, Dalit Aid etc to help us air and attempt to resolve these issues? - I have and will again I state this because giving money is Action. It is what the Gita is saying commit to action!
Have you studied India’s history. Just as a reminder. Whilst we were a military nation with the Rg Veda as our weapon of choice we rose to the heights of Kautilya & CGM. Only when CGM & Gransdon became Jain & Bhuddist fuelling the Ahmisa Element of Gita did India fall. When Ghandi took the Gita instead of the RV we lost 1/3 of our land mass.
India in such a state? What all the North East Christian? Kashmir (whats left) in Moslem dominance and terrorising Hindus? Khalistan? Moslems bombing trains? If comments like mine were heeded Great Agni would burn all the An-Aryans. Kashmir would be Hindu. The North East would be Hindu. No Mulla would dare position that Bharat desh would be the next Islamic state.
I say the filth they bring should be burned. God Bless the Hindus that have stood and martyred in the name of Dharma may they be re-born to continue their glorious work.
I see many ‘learned souls’ writing to this site. I have never seen anyone offer aid to these people who built this site, support physical work eg. JackB’s work at the Blag Club, or give us access to Shaktimarg or HinduHumanRights.
Action - Let’s support the initative of these peoples. Perhaps with a large enough purse we can approach International agencies and governments to stop the violence against the Indigenous Dharma of India and free our land of the terrorists, heritage triators, and 5th colunmists.
Money can can buy peace. Lack of money and folks will get a bottle fill it with gasoline and throw it 20 yards and the general public, a mosque / house gets destroyed (the non politicals) and hate inciters walk away because we do not have funds to negotitate then into peace. Hindus are feeling oppressed in their own country. They have no funds so the will act with molotov cocktails and steel.
I give funds so that Hindus do not act with such rage.
Veda Shakti!
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:22 pm
So the lines have been drawn - on one side stand those of who both take action and talk philosophy and on the other stand those who sit around and talk and talk and talk…
It is easy to misconstrue and be critical from the comfort of one’s own home and it is harder to stand up and be counted…
The reason India is in the state that it is and Hinduism is splintered into the many factions that it is - is that there are too many second guessers, drinking chai and pontificating about “ahisma, pakora’s, truth, wisdom” etc but when a Hindu stands up and expresses an opinion these cushion huggers are quick to denigrate that person or persons. They fall into the BBC trap of pre-facing the word “hindu” by the words “right wing”.
Even on this site, the words “right wing” have been used by so called rationalist Hindus to describe their own breathern, never have they been used to describe any other minority group.
Like the “300″ we Hindus have traitors in our midst but unlike the poor Spartans we will fight on two fronts… the main one will be the advancement and protection of Dharma across this planet … the second one will be a special corps who will guard the rear, the supply chains.
Both will push out to create an “ever expanding wheel” where Our Timeless Dharma will be allowed to flourish….
The great diversity of our religion means that all can have there say… but since Independence it seems that the “non violence crowd” have decided that they are the only one voice to be heard, any one who even raises a strong and but not violent voice are called “right wing” as if the only violence comes from the right (you guys should really go to the communist run state of Bengal)
And what they forget is that the sainthood of the Mahatma (and I love Bupu a great deal) was forged on the rent limbs, the raped bodies and the ruptured hearts of thousands of ordinary men and women who fought for their right to be free.
That is one thing we can never forget.
To all you lovers of “turn the other cheek” I am sorry to say that the second generation and more importantly the third generation of NRI Hindus are sick and tired of being taken for granted, for being in the shadow of the dohti wearing, gandhites who talk non violence and peace but who will shove a daljit out of the way or beat their women folk at home.
The younger generation has had enough of seeing the same old faces at the same old parties having their pictures taken with the same old lying politicans … all in the name of “NRI Hinduism”.
They know that their “elders and betters” are giving new meaning to the word “hyprocrisy” and “corruption”… and they are looking for new leaders and new answers…
Some of these are found in the pages of sites like Hindu Voice, some will be found in the leadership of a new type of NRI Hindu, one that is well educated but is not using that education to look down on the working Hindus, one that is articulate but is not ashamed to speak his/her original language amongst their elders. A leader that is both strong in mind and body and is not afraid to lead from the front…
make no mistake about it my older and more “learned” friends…. there is a revolution coming in NRI Hinduism… the old ways of kow tow ing and begging for scraps from the multi-cultural table are being thrown out
Instead a new Dharmic Class is rising - one that is not blinded by caste, but united by fervour
The same fervour that was felt on the Bridge of Lanka and on the fields of Kurukshetra, the same fervour that was heard in horn of Krsna and felt in the bow of Ram.
The fervour of Dharma.
The days of the chai-pakora crowd are numbers….
The time for your “Big Adios” is at hand…
JB
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
I’ve never met Ramdev, or Gandhi Ji, or any of you, as far as I know. But the seeking of truth is ever important. People that prevent the seeking of truth prevent the most important type of worship for truth is god.
Any man should ask questions about history. Any man should seek heros, ethnic and otherwise.
But who is it that nay-says? Who is the skeptic that shouts I know that you are wrong? That is the irreligious. Without a belief, to attack.
Hinduism, like so many other things, is a word trying to grasp an idea. The idea is much greater than the word. We must try to be greater than a word (otherwise we are not really different than christians who worship the word Jesus and muslims who worship the word allah).
But peace will not come. Shanti is within, shanti is in paratman. To think that we will have peace in the worldly order is the ulimate foolishness, even the ultimate faith. There will always be conflict. If there were not, we may as well go to sleep. The question, friends, is how do we respond to conflict? Do we hate (himsa) or do we love (ahimsa) those we disagree with?
I can love my children but still discipline them. This ahimsa is not a carte blanche. Arjuna is told to stand and fight not because of what he will gain but because it is what he must do. Arjuna’s war, for that moment of realization when he has just heard the Gita, is bloodshed of ahimsa. - His ego clouds it later. Thus we must also always be at war, be at action in conflict, and we must always seek that detached renounced action of a soldier dying as he pulls his last trigger.
hariaum
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:32 pm
JackB - Proudly said. I believe that in a previous incarnation you must have served with CGM. Bravo!
Navin - Fine words. Subtle but strong. (worthy of Kautilya)
I have enjoyed reading these words. They are filled with the Spirit of the Aryan. Now we talk like Men of Dharma. The words here are not divisive but intelligent and supportive, they are proud words by men who have never traitored their heritage. Veda Shakti!
If the moderators can organise a meeting count me in.
January 4th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Swami Ramdev has just touched the periphery of the issue and is right. The Mahatma never understood or conceived of freedom and independence as these really mean in human sense of nation states and societies.He had some loose concept of soliciting benevolence from the our colonial rulers which would hurt no one and the British very well understood this and drew the best advantage from this attitude. Just take a few examples- Is there any instance in human history where the enslaved people have volunteered to fight for the ruler by fielding an army- the Mahatama provided the largest volunteer army of over a million for the British whatever the justification.Subhash was ever suspicious of Mahatama’s ways which he said would leave India more enslaved as it ever was -how true. The creation of the INA and the mutiny in the Indian Navy, the rise of the Soviet Union and the bleeding of the British by the German war machine were collectively contributary to abandonement of the colonies by the British. No Shanti sermons ever won freedom for a people. That the Mahatama’s venerable sayings and precepts are now themselves only confined to commmorations, goshtis and books , pretentious congregations and ofcourse lip service by foreigners is a failure of not the gandhi philosophy but the methods he preached.His society is today totally fragmented , indisciplined, anarchial,Godless and hypocritically bane.Indians have no virility as a nation and no amount of money making or prosperity can imbibe this nation building character. The man of peace would shudder to see how recklessly unpeaceful his India is today, how criminalised his folk. The Imperial stamp was never replaced but lingers as a genie in every corridor of power and influence, in every method and ways of our very governance and the practice of ‘democracy’. Never have ther been people so free and enslaved at the same time as we are today.
January 4th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Despite all of India’s problems, and I see India as a recent geopolitical construct, it is doing pretty well. The average life expectancey has gone up by 75% (40-70), the economic power of India is one of the highest in the world, the maintenance of a voting system of government (not a real measure of democracy but the currently applied one), the distriubution of wealth (less disparity than the US - see economist some time this year), the educational system which still produces some of the worlds leading engineers, phd’s, docs…
There is no question India has a lot to do. But in the first 50 years of independance in the US slavery was still considered a moral good, and shooting indigenous peoples was sport, it took the UK a hundred plus years after gannymeade before people had a voice, the French were still going back and forth from the reign of terror and Napolean, the Spanish have not yet recovered, the Australians still have not truely integrated the indigenous peoples, the Canadians still have trouble with Quebec and their indigenous peoples…
So, though we need to see the problems of our nations and try to address them, we also need to see that the system overall worked (including a socialist democracy that was poor at making war and defending its borders). If your not convinced, compare India to other nations getting freedom from overt colonialism in the last 50 years - most of Africa, the Middle east, Korea, Vietnam…
hariaum
January 4th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Well one can argue about our progress in terms of statistics which can be churned out from any angle as an arm chair excersise but let us just take a few examples to draw own conclusions. Economic growth can be a mirage if it depends upon and reflects growth based on consumerism and services with the nation simply a marketing outlet for other’s intellectual property rights. Where a nation cannot field its own manufactured goods competitively, cannot challenge in science, R&D and next generation technology from its own home ground that nation will have its strings controlled from elsewhere which includes its foreign policy and defence. We are in this state and no better.The islands of prosperity which urban India is generating are shallow and transitory and more of quick fix for vertical proliferation of wealth than generating intrinsic strength. You do not grow strong economically by pushing out traditionally strong occupations and replecing these with Malls and SEZs to churn out consumer products. We are actually inflating needs and ignoring necessities. Where we aught to be unchallenged for export in agararian products our farmers are commiting suicdes. I regret the statistics above are are quite unrealistic. The gap between the majority have nots and the small havs has grown ten fold over the past five years. Its purposeless comparing figures against Africa,Mid East and so on . Why cant we postulate on the basis of our own potential?As for the natures of of democracy we practice the less said the better. I
January 4th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Typical from the followers of Gandhi. Swami Ram Dev Ji needs to be educated that it was largely Gandhi’s and Congress’s policy of appeasement politics that can be blamed for the partition of India in creating a seperate “muslim” voteback by supporting the Muslim League and Khilafah Movement in the first place.
He and his Congress party are the root cause of the problems India still faces today continuing with the home grown terrorism within India all demanding more and more chunks of India to be partitioned into mini Pakistans.
BTW - I LOVE THOSE PICTURES!
January 5th, 2007 at 6:54 am
I believe Swami Ram Dev did not have any intention what so ever in insulting one of India’s greatest hero…As a citizen who loves his country deeply, he has the right to speak anything what he thinks is concerning…Those people of the congress should be a shame of themself carrying out the word ‘BEHEAD’ in their poster. I say those word should be carry out against the Kashmir and East Indian rebels.
I believe that the Indian nation should take real action against the enemy of Vedic culture…
I am Indonesian…Indonesia has countless names of Indonesian Hindus who died fighting in the freedom war against the Dutch, fighting for a country where most people are Moslem…My late grandpa is one of those freedom fighters.
Non Violence is cool and all but violence is also necessary to show our enemy that we are not lame.
January 7th, 2007 at 3:09 am
Well said Krisna
Let me ask you to formally become a member of the “300″ a new group that is being organised by myself and my good buddy Deeno Sharma (if that is okay mate)… the goal is to have at least “300″ Hindus, one or more from each country in the world (where hindu’s live)…
The rise of NRI Hinduism is now beginning….
“Give them nothing but take from them EVERYTHING”
“We will crave our collective name in the hard granite of history”
“We march to our destiny with fire in the heart and ice in the mind”
January 8th, 2007 at 1:13 am
much before gandhi came to india from uk the british cowards had already moved the cpital from calcutta fto delhi out of fear of the indian patrioits who made such asssacrifice and made the life odef engluish bastrds difficlut.itis they -especially the people of gram dal of congress to whom we owe indepdnece.
June 1998.
Indian anglophile class -especially indian english language media -is a race of Coolies and traitors.
the same class of indians who are doing propaganda agasinty china today are the same people who forced rajiv gandhi in 1987 to make friendship with china(and recognise tibet as part of china) why-? because the usa had ben friend with china since 1984 and wanted india tobe friend too as opposed to russia.-therefore the indian parasite class foll=made the idnian foreing policy viz china not to suit india but to suit american interests-itis doing the same but in revere dirtection because their angloamerican masters want them to do it.
Congratulations to pakistan also for having exploded atomic bomb like India rightly did!
History is
full of nations much poorer, improving themselves first by making themselves militarily victorious
,by fair or foul means,over much richer and superior civilizations. That is exactly how
a race of pirate turned shopkeepers that is England and America made themselves rich.That is also why these pirate race of anglo-americans want to keep the ill gotten advantage by denying othersany means to get power or independence.That is the philosophy of nato.Who bothered about America before it stole Nuclear Technology from Germans? The other prominent makers of first atomic bomb were Italians and Hungarians,and thir country does not posses nuclear weaopn.From Americans who stole the technology did the british steal it.America also stole from the Germans Rocket and missiles technology.Now they want to make world astand still as it was in late ’91s through self drafted this pact and that pact.Now they want others not to have the same technology. In the same way the british stole Tea production technology , china making tech and what not from China.How much the british tea companies and british china making ones like royal daulton paying royalty to China?none!But they want others to pay for rubbish tech of ’60s retrospectivelly!! In fact even France is fed up with this cancerous anglo-american push to sell,indtead of much better Fernch food,rather rubbish tasteless food of anglo-saxons processed food industy which pushes for rotten and infected food like british beef. India should have sided with France and China to push for common interests.But India chose,under pressure from Anglophile english paper reading minority,to succumb to Low quality rubbish anglo-american products. And Pakistan
understands this duplicity and is not afraid to disturb that cosy arrangement of these anglo-american shopkeepers.
As for Bhutto saying that they will rather eat grass than not have bomb,
they have full filled that ambition when their prime minister asked pakistanis to
be prepared to even save in eating.Contrast that with response of Indian english knowing
class and their agents as represented by Indian english papers whose only worry
was that so called liberalization does not get stuck off.In fact Indian
atomic arsenal is necessary so that a country like america(whose infra-structure
know how and technology is much inferior to that of Germany,France and Italy) does not force
India(as it has been doing for some time) to accept third grade tech, and rubbish so called consumer goods .And here there are these english papers in India who were urging andia to give quick and special rebates
to americans .Those very americans who have always and will always act against India
and Indian interests.In fact America and britain(who really governs american foreing ,defence and economic policy)will always support pakisatan not be4cause they love pakis,on the contraire,but because for them pakisatan is an ideal means to poke and put a thorn on the body of India. These english papers and all cheap things that
they represent talk of India doing all those things that is already known to be agenda of american and british for India.It is no surprise.
The english media and so called westernized Indians are the voluntary (and sometimes paid) agents of foreign interests.They do not represent western interest either : they represent anglo-american interests which is an interest
of exploitation and by the sopkeepers race(anglo-americans) with not a single
drop of culture or taste. And one of these english papers was saying,when camparing India with pakistan than India has a large number of english speaking population(as if that was a positive thing even if it were true!) forgetting to add that
despite that those countries who consider themselves english speaking(and they do not include in that anyone but their own shopkeepers race of anglo-saxons)never at anytime have given value to Indians while always giving all help to (less english speaking!) Pakistan. Only thing
is India lose out on translators who would have been recruited from amonst Hindi speaking peoples!.(most of indians).
In fact these english speaking countries consider these english speakingIndians as coolies-which in fact they are.And pakistanies have refused themselves to be relegated to the status of coolies.Because they have self respect which these english media peoples(in India) have not got.Ten years ago the president of Ficci,an industry organisation and darling of Indian english media had demanded of Govt. of Indiato reduce armed forces(at height of kashmir and Punjab insurrection) and give free reign to foreign firms.And that sort of demand became a reality when Manmohan singh became
finance minister and narsingh Rao succemed to american pressure to not
only not test atom bomb but also pack up Agni missiles programmes. All the things that a
foreign enemy country would have demanded and america di demand. It is no surprise .Because
Manmohan singh, narsingh rao and all english media (who supported that illegal minority govt.with out mandate to bring fundamental change in India’s self reliability)-asll these creaures were and will
continue to be agents of foreign interests-paid or otherwise(resulting from their cooliness or in other words from their deep sense of inferiority complex).Thes creatures must be ferreted out from
political,economic and social power that they have misappropiated.In fact it would be better if these creatures
are sent to Pakistan who knows how to treat such sort of traitors. A govt. first duty is to protect her citizens from external and internal danger. These elites oppose that. At the same time naturally
these parasitic elites also oppose the main obligation of a citizen to the govt.-that is to give taxes.In fact only by the right of taking taxes is the govt.recognignized.If India has 200 millions of middle class,as these english indian media always talk about,then where is the corresponding income tax revenue to the Govt. of India?But these english reading population is the biggest tax evader any where in the world.
But What the Prime minister Mr. Bajpaye does? He ,in stead of attacking previous congress govt. and Janta Dal govt.(whose Gujral and Mulayam singh are disgrace to India having created nearly a revolt
in Indian Army)-He becomes apologtic and agrees to put self memoratorium. Instead of testing much bigger Hydrogen momb of such magnitude that 2 or 3 of them would be sufficient to destroy whole of pakistan,He
simply backs down on western pressure and pressure from western agents like english media in india and pressure from those peoples whose vote bank is peoples of dubious loyalty. Ofcourse that big hydrogen bomb would
be neede ,noyt to be used but to provide deterrence_that is the purpose of atomic weopon.But this Prime minister is
so much eager to please foriegn anglo-american countries(true enemiy of India) that he adrres Parliament not in his language but in english.That is why in recent rally of child labourers (children of 4 to 14 yers)-who could not even get primary education-
was addressed by the leaders in India in english.That is how much India has become a nation
of coolies and hangers on rather than develop any leader ship quality with confidence. And that is why george Fernances-not a friend of america-started making China a villain in the hope of appeasing America-number one enemy of India. Wht Gerge should have said,and what he has realized too late,
is that if others can keep nuclear missiles then so can India.And matter ends there.BUt no. he had
to appease real enemy of India-which are America and England-by annoying an asian super power.
Now what is the solution after this mess up.? First India has to devewlop long range nuclear missiles
and nuclear submarine ,able to attack America,so that India can deal with all sorts of challenge and not repeat
blackmail of Irak by anglo-american counties. And it has to rely on Herself.Give less social or economic position
to english lovers. Secondly India has to deveop bigger Hydrogen bomb-The previos test cdone in one go are not enough.Pakistan does not care about others’s opinion; India also needs confidence.
Thirdly India should agree to hand over Kashmir(which is gone within 10 years anyway) with
forcefull tranfer of muslim Population from India to kashmir and pakistan of those who are co-religionists of pakistan but living in India.
That will cut the bottom of so called secularists-who must also be sent forcibly to Pakistan and they willpreach secularism to pakistanies. As for the likes of Manmohan singh,Narsingha rao,Mulayamsingh yadavand their kinds-They must be beaten to death by a lynching mob so that in future nobody(and especialyy english lovers) will
ever dare to do so much harm to India.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:15 am
JUne 1998.
Why is India so keen to sign rubbish discriminating treaty?_
Before the govt. of india and the self respect lacking elite of
India start any seroious discussion with anybody(more so with india’s enemy
like u.s.a.)on nuclear treaty ,it must declare what it has in mind and
ask for peoples’ mandate in way of refrendrum.After all in u.s.a. the presidents have been elected on hawkish pro-nuclear
programme and even a third rate country like u.k. had elected three times her prime minister
on pro-nuclear issue. These same west nations preach others to be pacifists. If it was good enough
for them then it is good enough for India to ask her people directly on such a matter of national security.
Foreign policy is not done on basis of personal friendship.Who is this Jaswant singh to talk about our nuclear disarmament?
Those who talk of economic benefit are eluding themselves.America want to unarm India and others
exactly so that it can impose his exploitative(anglo-saxon and not western)economy.In that model of
anglo-saxon econmy lies this basic principle-Support your own profit(swadeshi) and take from other countries the
goods at minimum price.That is why they support theier own rotten ,viral infecxted beef(with no self of foreign meat);
not buy Japenese cars unless manufactured in their country. That is also why imf is very keen to devalue others currency so that these anglosaxpons country can buy foreign goods cheap and pay little for it.
Todays’ world is full of economic ruins by those who kissed the poisoned hands of america and u.k.Remember India did have very healthy trade
balance with west before colonization not by selling much but by selling at high price.So signing nuclear treaty against Indian interest
would for ever enslave India to tose countries like usa and u.k. who have always been anti-india. Not that they like pakistan or for that matter any europen country
. This is all anglo-american plot to take over the world. Unless India and others realize it and act accordingly, they are in for long duration of slavery.
This not an alarmist scenerio, it is the real picture and Indians are kidding themselves if they
think india has a single friend unless herself.Do you so relationship to
even your cousins if they are powerless and thus poor? We ar not even their cousin.
People of India must demand refrendum on this secretive treacherous talk.
1997.
Manmohan singh,former finance minister, what is he, if not clear by now with his previous anti-india policy had been clear ,then it should become cristal clear with his recent questioning in Rajya Sabha on 15 th dec. The prime minister was giving statement on nuclear talk with america(which he should not have entered into with america anyway). As Indian policy has been defence and incoherent,He was telling about minimum nuclear deterent that India must have to which this manmohan singh asked what is the limit of minimum nuclear deterence. As if to open all the cards and play into america’s hand, Manmohan singh was playing part of American interest’ agent. It is the same manmohan singh who some congressmen are saying is more keen than the govt. to get lateset Insurance and patent bill( to sell out to anglo-american interest)passed by the Parliament. In stead of waiting for world situation till 2002(which is bound to change) Manmohan singh is keen to see that America’s interest is served quickly. Tragedy is that this sort of person, and likes of Yaswant singh-foreign minister-who can not win a single mandate from people in democratic election,are the people made to hold important ofiice asnd ofcourse Anglo-americans like that because deviod of public support and democratic mandate, such peoples are ideal agents of anglo-American interest. All those so called reform under manmohan singh -which was supposed to do exactly opposte of what it did(example of latin america was already there) is still beieng pursued on the same logic under this American spy. Even the lesson of east asia has not been learnt. Those who talk big and bostfill in India must remember that far from being some economic power , If pursuing the same sell out of India, the country will take 50 years to reach the prosprity enjoyed by brazilian elite but will have debt and total loss of sovernity in economic and foriegn policy with in 10 years.
By the way in response to American spys’(manmohan singh)question as to what constitute Minimum nuclear deterence for India the Prime minister should have assured that it would be such that in case of attack, as in bagdad, by the anglo-American goons,India will have effective nuclear and convention weopon to hit at targets in england and united states. Only ,and then only will have India effective deterence.
January 8th, 2007 at 2:01 am
Immense Postings with much History. However, it is what it is, History.
a) The Problem is Moslems in India. Too Many. Too many. They were not created by the English or Americans. In fact Americans have killed more Moselms than Hindus have, viz a viz Afganistan, Iraq, etc. So I say God Bless America - Go Get em Floyd. These people have murdered Hindus since 1001AD. Kautilya says “My enemies enemies are my friends”
b) The Christians in India - send them to Europe and America let them live among their brothers. F. Secularism!. What we need is a Non-Imperialist India - ie. without the filth left by the Imperialists. Moselms go home. Christians Go Home.
c) Nuclear alliances with germany And France is needed
History is History our work is to send home the filth back to their Imperial masters and out of Aryawarth.
Veda Shakti!
January 8th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
A person who lives to 70 is not a statistic, a family that can expect to have its children survive is not a statistic.
As a military person, to fail to recognize the importance of statistical reasoning is dangerous. If you design a gun that is 50% likely to backfire, I hope you would not pass it out to your troop and say statistics are manipulated by the pacifists so don’t believe them.
India has more poor than Africa, and is more stable than Africa. India has more freedom than China and is less well regulated than China. India has more diversity than America and more respect for diversity than America.
India is just another nation. Nobilty is a mind set and usually the person claiming it is not noble.
The problem of the world is that it continues to find egotistical manifestations - pride in self, pride in nation, pride in intellect, pride in ignorance…
these will persist until the ideology of ego agrandizement (christianity, islam, and even some of the stuff we read here) is abolished. But that will be the end of time. In the mean time it becomes a personal practice (where it should be anyway). It will become more critical historically as individuals gain the power to cause significant harm (911…) Then sitting with our egos on top of a mountain of vain pillows will only continue to harm us. We must teach and thus embrace the universal “hinduism” that is really Sanatana Dharma.
hariaum
January 9th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
BAGHAT SIGNH, RAJ GURU, CHANDRA SEKHAR AZAD, SUBASH CHANDRA BOSE AND HI INA — HOW MANY LIVES ARE BEING LAID DOWN FOR INDEPENDENCE… HOW CAN ANYBODY THINK THAT OUR INDEPENDENCE IS BECAUSAE OF ONLY GANDHI.
EVERY BODY IN THIS COUNTRY, EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN OD INDIA KNOW HOW NON VIOLENT OUR POLITICAL LEADERS ARE.
January 13th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
If Gandhi hadnt of been born then It may be fair to say that Indian Independance may have been stalled for years…but atleast we as Hindus would have pride, a leader who looked out for the Hindus would have meant that Kashmir would never of happened and even if it did then we would have fought back to reclaim it as opposed to running to the UN as Nehru(Gnadhis favorite over Sardar Patel to become PM) did thus splitting Kashmir into two. All the anti Hindu elements we have existing in India from the media to minority faiths taking advantage of eveything would have been unknown
January 17th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
I had been waiting for some time to see the flow of arguments. I will now come clean. I am actually an admirer of Swami Ramdev who has actually cleared the cobwebs on Yoga including Pranayama and is making very passionate effort in making it available to masses. Large amount of data is being collected to give this major rejuvenation a statistical and scientific meaning. It is a pity that the current government chooses to ignore the possibiltiy of the immense breakthrougfh from this research.
Swami Ramdev is a strong nationalist and passionate about it. There is no doubt that no single person led to independence from the colonial rule. It however is mystifying to defend Ramdev by attacking Mahatma Gandhi! What I wrote about Mahatma Gandhi is what I understand from the history and not from the BBC. Nation is nurtured by its icons and to downsize one does not glorify the other. Congress has hijacked Gandhiji as a Congress icon and sadly the opposition has accepted it. A party that shamelessly exploits the name of Gandhi for political purposes would have been put in place if the opposition claimed equal ownership!
I wanted to know more about the colonial helplessness of Indians. The situation before could not have been exactly happy. I am told that barely 10% of Indians were sure of their next meal by the time of independence. Despite so many Brown sahibs and Macauly slaves the figure is about 70% despite the population having trebled. I look at future with optimism and hope the best of the heritage of ten thousand years is explored by minds who can see the issues with compassion and vigour.
Swami Ramdev has brought Yaga to the masses and soon we will have some schlors who can bring Vedas and Upanishads to the masses.
With malice towards none.
Vande Matram.
January 17th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
I will bring the Vedas to the Masses
January 21st, 2007 at 8:17 am
Vinodji Dawda has talked of ‘an inherent savagery of right wing Hinduism’ in respect of Baba Ramdevji. What is this right wing and left wing in Hinduism? Hinduism is Hinduism, and there are no right or left wings in it. There can be only a religious, a pseudo-religious and an irreligious or atheist Hindu. If ‘right’ means one who is right, that is, who is a full, staunch believer and a perfect follower of the Hindu Scriptures, and ‘left’ means one who is worthy of being left over and discarded because of his being pseudo, then it is a different matter. But the writer didn’t have that intention.
We further clarify: it was not Mr. Gandhi who transformed Congress into a national organization from one of ‘brown sahibs’, but Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak. It was he who gave the country (and the Congress) the slogan, ‘Independence is my birth right’: ‘Swatantrata mera janm sidh adhikar hai’ – and even proved it in the court of Law.
Both the remarks of Maj. Gen. Chauhan of Jan 4 are entirely true, and nothing but true. It seems, he too has some first hand knowledge of Gandhi and the workings of his band of politicians. Kudos to him.
January 21st, 2007 at 8:57 am
Vinod Dawdaji has talked of ‘an inherent savagery of right wing Hinduism’ in respect of Ramdevji. What is this right wing and left wing in Hinduism? Hinduism is Hinduism, and there are no right or left wings in it. There can be only a religious, a pseudo-religious and an irreligious or atheist Hindu. If ‘right’ means one who is right, that is, who is a full, staunch believer and a perfect follower of the Hindu Scriptures, and ‘left’ means one who is worthy of being left over and discarded because of his being pseudo, then it is a different matter. But the writer didn’t have that intention.
We further clarify: it was not Gandhiji who transformed Congress into a national organization from one of ‘brown sahibs’, but Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak. It was he who gave the country (and the Congress) the slogan, ‘Independence is my birth right’: ‘Swatantrata mera janm sidh adhikar hai’ – and even proved it in the court of Law.
Both the remarks of Maj. Gen. Chauhan of Jan 4 are entirely true, and nothing but true. It seems, he too has some first hand knowledge of Gandhi and the workings of his band of politicians. Kudos to him.
January 21st, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Often i am surprised by the way any discussion slips - by induction of thoughts which are result of our - human ignorance.
We all forget that in our day today life - that is called transactional life - or vyavaharika life, we interact with human beings who are limited in every respect, {also with many other living and non living things}. But what surprises is our IDIOCITY…that we - it is we - decide that if one is a good doctor he should be good in so many other actions, if one is good in psychology, he should be good in so many other things, if one is a good actor, he should be good in so many other fields…AND WE TAKE AWAY THE FREEDOM from these humanbeings - the freedom they have to err. We give them the position of infalliability and then we complain. A good doctor can be a poor husband or a poor father or a poor friend..etc..this applies to every other human being.
If ‘Adi Shankara’ was a good teacher, he was a good teacher…if he was a human being, then if he has erred, he has erred which is but natural. why on earth we look at what he has said, and then if we think we understood what he has said, think over that and see how it helps in our vyavaharika life and if we think it helps use that. similarly, any other human being with whom we interact, if we find that there is something good to learn we learn, if we think there is nothing to learn, ignore,but why we try to validate or invalidate him? he has all the right to express his views and as long as the view is not going to affect anyone, why waste time on that?
In this case, if what Ramdevji said has said, it has really no impact on any one—in any fashion. in this case would it not be better we leave that after explaining that Shri Ramdevji is also a human being endowed with some extra knowledge in Yoga etc and we try to learn that, use that for the benefit of our mind and body etc…? if we do not agree with something he has said, all that one need to do is just to ignore.
The problem with us is that when we find an expert in any field, we give that human being a position of infalliability and the we ourselves pull him down from that position and then we tend to call him ” fraud ” or say that he cheated us etc. we forget that it is we who validated him, it is we who were fraud by not using our knowledge properly by educating, thinking, analysing etc…it is we who misunderstood and it is we who thought that we were cheated…while the other person merely expressed some views.
I know my this thinking is not going to be appreciated by most of the people. but i think it will be a good excercise to think on this a little deeper and see - ARE WE NOT THE ONES TO BE BLAMED FOR OUR “MIS”UNDERSTANDING a person by giving that ( let it be any one ) human bieng a pedestal and not spending time to think, analyse etc…
we need to hear, read, think, analyse, clarify our doubts etc…instead of attributing such adjectives to other human beings..
another idiotic thinking from a very ordinary human being who thinks
” to err is human “
January 22nd, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I like what pairamblar says.
Now think deeply about revolution, demoncracy, and leadership. In fact all revolutions are caused by the people. The leaders without the will of the people will saber rattle and then fall out of history. The people without the leaders will generate a new leader. when the people’s will is expressed by the leader the people fall “behind” that leader and a revolution is created.
Applying this to India, the leaders that had the greatest following by the people were those who best expressed the sentiments of the people. Frankly, for a long time the indians did not have a sentiment for home rule and independance - much like slaves did not want to be free of their ownere enough to kill them though they outnumbered them easily, much like an abused wife, much like a devotee of a religion that controls their thoughts. As the indians were suppressed more and more and education brought up the options of oposition (even the most abused wife knows that an option is to kill the oppressor), they chose a leadership that would represent them.
Just as Gandhi, Bose, etc had followers and thus represented differing views of revolution of the people, Ramdev has a group of followers that use him to represent their perspective. congress party, and we are likewise.
So a truth seeker must understand that the system and responsibility of action is the person not a leader or a title or a statement. This entails the conflicts in every human mind and budhi. We then can identify those primary causes of an event and avoid the confusion of looking simply at the results.
hariaum
January 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 am
This is a debate on politics and history not of religion. Thus, the religious concepts like tolerance, non-violence etc etc should not enter into this debate. One should look at the history in a dispassionate way.
Gandhi should be another Guru like Sai Baba or Mahesh Yogi or Deepak Chopra, but he should not have entered politics. India could have got independence without Gandhi because when Gandhi came back to India in 1915 from South Africa, political scene was very matured. Mass movement was not invented by Gandhi at all but through the 1905 agitation over the partition of Bengal. The main leaders in India at that time was Tilak, Bipin Pal, Surendranath Banerjee, Lajpat Rai, Ajit Singh, Chittaranjan Das. Gandhi was put into the Congress by Gokhle who was very pro-British empire loyalist to sabotage the independence movement.
After coming to The Congress Gandhi first expelled these leaders mentioned above or the British helped him to kill them ( Lajpat Rai, Chittaranjan Das) and filled up the Congress with his cronies. Anyone who would oppose Gandhi was expelled ( Srinivas Iyenger, Subhas Bose).
Gandhi first movement was Khilafat Movement to restore the Khalifa of Turkey which has nothing to do with independence and Gandhi disassotiated from it after 7 days.
Gandhi second movement non-cooperation movement lasted also 7 days.
Gandhi’s third movement August movement in 1942 also lasted 7 days.
Gandhi was only acting otherwise people would forget him. In 1943 Gandhi along with Rajagopalacharya made a detail plan to create Pakistan.
In 1947, although both N.W.F.P and Balochistan wanted to join India Gandhi would not accept them.
Gandhi came to Calcutta to start his hunger srike to save the Muslims but he did nothing to save the Hindus in East Pakistan, only a few miles away.
Gandhi started his huger srike to give money to Pakistan but he did nothing in 1946 when British going against the Geneva convention had executed a large number of soldiers of the Azad Hind Fauz.
Gandhi also said nothing when the soldiers of the Indian Navy in Bombay and Karachi in 1946 after their unsuccessful revolt surrendered to the British on the advice of Gandhi, but the British killed them all.
It is important to find out who was Gandhi really. We know one thing for surefrom the British admission: the poor looking people used to surround Gandhi always were members of the British secrtet service protecting Gandhi. Why did the British used to protect Gandhi, if Gandhi was a feeedom fighter against the British? For other freedom fighters British had a different policy; they used to kill them or torture them to death.
January 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Dipak boseji,
Would it be a nice idea to ask ourselves, what for is politics, economics, history, science, you name anything, ..what for it is?
One can have tolerance in religion, but not in politics ? one can be nice to relatives, but not to people who are not known?
It often surprises me how our mind works. We forget that every activity is related to our life…in making our life - hopefully - better. If not for bettering the life, why should we know anything? why all this hard work for development? why all this education?
What is the use of History? It is supposed to help us look at “history”- past - and try and if possible understand - so that in our this life, we get to know something more- which could help us in taking better decisions in our actions. So may be it might not be right to say that onething being politics - one need no tolerance, love etc…
Without Gandhiji, India could have got independence…sure..if a person like Mohan Das Karam Chand Gandhi was not born, would India continued to be a colonial nation still??? we can debate that…but we also know that it is a meaningless discussion thatway.
Yes, we need to look at History “dispassionately”…But the very history is a record - if it is recorded - of certain events as viewed by THIS VERY HUMAN BEING - WHO HAS LIMITATIONS IN EVERYTHING….including understanding and misunderstanding. So would it not be better to look at the positives of whatever info available and ignore the negatives and move forward? Yes, from negatives too, we can take our lessons for the future actions, decision making process etc. But all that is only a guide…to make our mind think and look at….since we better know that all that record is a view or perception of another HUMAN BEING.
that is all I meant to say, and when we accept that is right or wrong, and decide on that basis, then it is we who make mistakes by deciding to accept that as right or wrong.
January 23rd, 2007 at 4:57 pm
I believe that an interpretation of history will have to be a philosophy. Thus we do still need to look at cause and effect, who is the leader and who the follower, etc so that we can use these historical data to manage the future.
hariaum
January 25th, 2007 at 8:43 am
Dalip Da! You have done a nice and brief recapitulation of Gandhi, Congress and ‘Indian’ revolutionaries. Either you have done a lot of reading on the subject or you belong to a family of revolutionaries. Bengal was the breeding ground of revolutionaries. When one reads the name ‘Bose’, memories of luminaries like Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, Rashbehari Bose and Khudi Ram Bose strike the mental plain of an ‘Indian’ patriot immediately.
You wondered, ‘Why did the British used to protect Gandhi, if he was a freedom fighter against British rule’; why had they a different policy against real freedom fighters? Answer is quite simple: Because the British considered him as their best friend and ally in India. He was “a friend whose authority alone prevents not only a resumption of civil disobedience but….methods of revolutionary agitation.”(CEM Joad).
Lord Samuel had said: “The fact that there is no open rebellion in India…is very largely due to the influence of Gandhi….the best policeman the Britishers had in India.” (Miss. Wilkinson MP.)
His loyalty to the British Empire was unflinching. So, “On April 24, 1915 he made the most important speech of his tour (of Madras). While proposing the toast of the British Empire at a meeting of the Madras Bar Association, he declared proudly: It gives me the greatest pleasure this evening at this very great and important gathering to re-declare my loyalty to the British Empire. …..The British Empire had certain ideals with which I have fallen in love”. (The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi. Vol XIII. P.59.)
In England he had proudly averred: “I know of no Indian, whether here, in South Africa or in India, who had so steadily, even defiantly, set his face against sedition – as I understand it – as I have. It is a part of my faith not to have anything to do with it, even at the risk of my life”.
Once he also said, “I will not hurt England … to serve India”. (Young India, 16 March, 1921.)
During his stay in Yaravda prison, he wrote about 24 letters to the Jail authorities, some of them to the Superintendent of Prisons, an Englishman. They ended with the words, ‘Your’s obediently’, ‘Your faithful servant’.
In the First World War, he issued a circular affirming his resolve to tender unconditional service to the British Empire. He offered to raise a volunteer corps for ambulance work and set up an India Volunteer Committee with himself as the chairman. VV Giri, later a President of India, first joined him but then later withdrew, saying: “It was sinful to help the British”. (But for Gandhi, it was not so; it was rather a blessing!)
To the Viceroy he wrote, “I would make India offer all her able bodied sons as a sacrifice to the Empire at its critical moment”. (MK Gandhi: An Autobiography.)
In another letter, he wrote, “Whilst, therefore, it is clear to me that we should give to the Empire every able bodied man for its defence, I fear, I cannot say the same thing for financial assistance”. (Ibid.)
One could argue, “It was Gandhi of an earlier time, a period when he was immature”. For them, here is Gandhi of as close a time as August 1942 ‘Quit India’ movement – just five years before independence and six before his end.
On August 14, 1942, he wrote to the Viceroy pleading for a reconsideration of the government policy. His words were, “Do not disregard this pleading of one who claims to be a sincere friend of the British people.” Mind you, the movement had started on August 8, when a day earlier all the leaders had been taken into custody and interned in jail. Why was he outside and not arrested? The answer is obvious?
Lords Montague and Chelmsford came to meet the leaders and submit a report to the British government on constitutional reforms. They met all the leaders. Describing Bal GangadharTilak, he wrote, “The Great Tilak” (who was) “at the moment, probably, the most powerful man in India”. On Gandhi his remarks were, “He dresses like a coolie. …He does not understand details of schemes; all he wants is that we should get India on our side. He wants the millions of India to leap to the assistance of the British throne.” (ES Montague: An Indian Diary, p.59.)
He fought to help British Imperialism in the Boer War, and later to repel the Zulu rebellion. For the former, he was awarded a War Medal also by the Colonialist Imperialists.
HE WAS AGAINST FULL INDEPENDENCE FROM THE BRITISH. His ‘Indian Home Rule’ or ‘Hind Swaraj’ did not envisage independence from the British. (See his booklet ‘Indian Home Rule’ published by G Natesan, Madras). So faithful and so enamoured was he of the British that he desired their perpetual rule. He was against ending ‘their benevolent rule’. He took extra care that his words did not hurt the feelings of the British; whether they hurt those of his countrymen, he did not care. He used to impress upon his countrymen, “we stand to lose by ending British rule”.
He even declared that while he appreciated the patriotism of men like Lala Lajpat Rai and immense sufferings undergone by them for the sake of the country, they were in error so far as they wanted to end British rule. “We have”, he averred, “no quarrel with the British rule but instead of desiring the end of the British rule”, let us aspire to be as able and spirited as the colonists are. (The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Vol. IX p.306.)
“It is not necessary for us to have our goal the expulsion of the English”. (Hind Swaraj: MK Gandhi, p. 47.)
When in a meeting in Calcutta, CF Andrews, a personal friend of his of South African days, publicly put forward a demand for Indian Independence, he told him, “You have done a great deal of mischief by this advocacy of Independence”. (The India Review, Sept 1922.)
IN December, 1928 he was asked: “What would be your attitude towards a political war of independence?” His reply was, “I would decline to take part in it”. (Critique of Gandhi by MM Kothari, p.138.)
No wonder, he was a lover of the British National Anthem, which he used to sing. He himself admitted, “I have sung the tune and have taught others to sing it” – a composition which contained such words as, ‘Scatter her enemies, and make them fall; Confound their politics; Confound their knavish … .’
He called Shivaji ‘A misguided patriot’, and Maharana Pratap, ‘A Giant Bandit’. To him, Guru Gobind Singh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Chhatrapati Maharaj Shivaji – all were misguided patriots. (Young India, April 9, 1925.)
While writing in Hind Swaraj, he condemned great Madan lal Dhingra who had shot dead Sir Curzon Wyllie, aid-de-camp of the Secy of State for India Mr. Morley, on July 1, 1901 here in London. In a statement he said, “Dhingra’s defence is inadmissible. He was egged on to do this act by ill-digested readings of worthless writings”. (A point to those of VD Savarkar). He described Udham Singh as ‘Insane’ and Bhagat Singh as ‘Mad’.
You referred to ‘Khilafat’. In that respect, we would like to add the following. While describing his conversation with Maulana Shaukat Ali (one of the two of the Ali Brothers) he wrote in ‘Young India’ of October 23, 1924: “I am speaking to you (Mr. Ali) as though I was a Musalman, because I have cultivated that respect for Islam which you have for it”.
In April 1921, the Khilafat Committee requested the AICC (All India Congress Committee) to formulate a clear and definite foreign policy for India. Accordingly, under the guidance of ‘Mr. Bapu’, All India Congress Working Committee in its Bombay session on October 5, 1921 passed the following resolution, which throws a flood of light on the working and thinking of the Congress, present as well as past:
“WHEN INDIA WILL ATTAIN SWARAJ, SHE GUARANTEES THE INDEPENDENT MUSLIM NATIONS THAT SHE WOULD SO FORMULATE HER POLICY AS TO BE IN FULL ACCORD WITH THE TENETS OF MUSLIM RELIGION”. (History of the Congress, published by Maharashtra Congress Committee with foreword by Acharya Shanker Rao Deo, Secretary of the Congress. P.257.)
January 25th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Dalip Da! You have done a nice and brief recapitulation of Gandhi, Congress and ‘Indian’ revolutionaries. Either you have done a lot of reading on the subject or you belong to a family of revolutionaries. Bengal was the breeding ground of revolutionaries. When one reads the name ‘Bose’, memories of luminaries like Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, Rashbehari Bose and Khudi Ram Bose strike the mental plain of an ‘Indian’ patriot immediately.
You wondered, ‘Why did the British used to protect Gandhi, if he was a freedom fighter against British rule’; why had they a different policy against real freedom fighters? Answer is quite simple: Because the British considered him as their best friend and ally in India. He was “a friend whose authority alone prevents not only a resumption of civil disobedience but….methods of revolutionary agitation.”(CEM Joad).
Lord Samuel had said: “The fact that there is no open rebellion in India…is very largely due to the influence of Gandhi….the best policeman the Britishers had in India.” (Miss. Wilkinson MP.)
His loyalty to the British Empire was unflinching. So, “On April 24, 1915 he made the most important speech of his tour (of Madras). While proposing the toast of the British Empire at a meeting of the Madras Bar Association, he declared proudly: It gives me the greatest pleasure this evening at this very great and important gathering to re-declare my loyalty to the British Empire. …..The British Empire had certain ideals with which I have fallen in love”. (The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi. Vol XIII. P.59.)
In England he had proudly averred: “I know of no Indian, whether here, in South Africa or in India, who had so steadily, even defiantly, set his face against sedition – as I understand it – as I have. It is a part of my faith not to have anything to do with it, even at the risk of my life”.
Once he also said, “I will not hurt England … to serve India”. (Young India, 16 March, 1921)
During his stay in Yaravda prison, he wrote about 24 letters to the Jail authorities, some of them to the Superintendent of Prisons, an Englishman. They ended with the words, ‘Your’s obediently’, ‘Your faithful servant’.
In the First World War, he issued a circular affirming his resolve to tender unconditional service to the British Empire. He offered to raise a volunteer corps for ambulance work and set up an India Volunteer Committee with himself as the chairman. VV Giri, later a President of India, first joined him but then later withdrew, saying: “It was sinful to help the British”. (But for Gandhi, it was not so; it was rather a blessing!)
To the Viceroy he wrote, “I would make India offer all her able bodied sons as a sacrifice to the Empire at its critical moment”. (MK Gandhi: An Autobiography.)
In another letter, he wrote, “Whilst, therefore, it is clear to me that we should give to the Empire every able bodied man for its defence, I fear, I cannot say the same thing for financial assistance”. (Ibid.)
One could argue, “It was Gandhi of an earlier time, a period when he was immature”. For them, here is Gandhi of as close a time as August 1942 ‘Quit India’ movement – just five years before independence and six before his end.
On August 14, 1942, he wrote to the Viceroy pleading for a reconsideration of the government policy. His words were, “Do not disregard this pleading of one who claims to be a sincere friend of the British people.” Mind you, the movement had started on August 8, when a day earlier all the leaders had been taken into custody and interned in jail. Why was he outside and not arrested? The answer is obvious?
Lords Montague and Chelmsford came to meet the leaders and submit a report to the British government on constitutional reforms. They met all the leaders. Describing Bal GangadharTilak, he wrote, “The Great Tilak” (who was) “at the moment, probably, the most powerful man in India”. On Gandhi his remarks were, “He dresses like a coolie. …He does not understand details of schemes; all he wants is that we should get India on our side. He wants the millions of India to leap to the assistance of the British throne.” (ES Montague: An Indian Diary, p.59.)
He fought to help British Imperialism in the Boer War, and later to repel the Zulu rebellion. For the former, he was awarded a War Medal also by the Colonialist Imperialists.
HE WAS AGAINST FULL INDEPENDENCE FROM THE BRITISH. His ‘Indian Home Rule’ or ‘Hind Swaraj’ did not envisage independence from the British. (See his booklet ‘Indian Home Rule’ published by G Natesan, Madras). So faithful and so enamoured was he of the British that he desired their perpetual rule. He was against ending ‘their benevolent rule’. He took extra care that his words did not hurt the feelings of the British; whether they hurt those of his countrymen, he did not care. He used to impress upon his countrymen, “we stand to lose by ending British rule”.
He even declared that while he appreciated the patriotism of men like Lala Lajpat Rai and immense sufferings undergone by them for the sake of the country, they were in error so far as they wanted to end British rule. “We have”, he averred, “no quarrel with the British rule but instead of desiring the end of the British rule”, let us aspire to be as able and spirited as the colonists are. (The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Vol. IX p.306.)
“It is not necessary for us to have our goal the expulsion of the English”. (Hind Swaraj: MK Gandhi, p. 47.)
When in a meeting in Calcutta, CF Andrews, a personal friend of his of South African days, publicly put forward a demand for Indian Independence, he told him, “You have done a great deal of mischief by this advocacy of Independence”. (The India Review, Sept 1922.)
IN December, 1928 he was asked: “What would be your attitude towards a political war of independence?” His reply was, “I would decline to take part in it”. (Critique of Gandhi by MM Kothari, p.138.)
No wonder, he was a lover of the British National Anthem, which he used to sing. He himself admitted, “I have sung the tune and have taught others to sing it” – a composition which contained such words as, ‘Scatter her enemies, and make them fall; Confound their politics; Confound their knavish … .’
He called Shivaji ‘A misguided patriot’, and Maharana Pratap, ‘A Giant Bandit’. To him, Guru Gobind Singh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Chhatrapati Maharaj Shivaji – all were misguided patriots. (Young India, April 9, 1925.) While writing in Hind Swaraj, he condemned great Madan lal Dhingra who had shot dead Sir Curzon Wyllie, aid-de-camp of the Secy of State for India Mr. Morley, on July 1, 1901 here in London. In a statement he said, “Dhingra’s defence is inadmissible. He was egged on to do this act by ill-digested readings of worthless writings”. (A point to those of VD Savarkar). He described Udham Singh as ‘Insane’ and Bhagat Singh as ‘Mad’.
You referred to ‘Khilafat’. In that respect, we would like to add the following. While describing his conversation with Maulana Shaukat Ali (one of the two of the Ali Brothers) he wrote in ‘Young India’ of October 23, 1924: “I am speaking to you (Mr. Ali) as though I was a Musalman, because I have cultivated that respect for Islam which you have for it”.
In April 1921, the Khilafat Committee requested the AICC (All India Congress Committee) to formulate a clear and definite foreign policy for India. Accordingly, under the guidance of ‘Mr. Bapu’, All India Congress Working Committee in its Bombay session on October 5, 1921 passed the following resolution, which throws a flood of light on the working and thinking of the Congress, present as well as past:
“WHEN INDIA WILL ATTAIN SWARAJ, SHE GUARANTEES THE INDEPENDENT MUSLIM NATIONS THAT SHE WOULD SO FORMULATE HER POLICY AS TO BE IN FULL ACCORD WITH THE TENETS OF MUSLIM RELIGION”. (History of the Congress, published by Maharashtra Congress Committee with foreword by Acharya Shanker Rao Deo, Secretary of the Congress. P.257.)
January 26th, 2007 at 6:15 am
Dr.Ranjit Singh:
There is a debate going on in the Letters to The Editor Section of The Statesman about Gandhi. I strongly suggest you to send your message to The Statesman ( 4, Chowringhee Square, Calcutta 700001, India ) for publication. You have collected very valuable documents; people of India should know these.
Regards
January 26th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
What makes a person Hindu? That they deny other religions, that they accept only certain books as scripture? That they profess no compassion for ohers?
At this site we keep going back to gandhiji. Why? If so many people find him not a hindu why is he relevant? If it is a matter of India, I stand by the perspective that all “freedom fighters” were equally ineffective. If it is a matter of Indian identity, then what in Indian identity did gandhiji capture?
I agree that gandhi ji did not understand the primitve ideology of the chritso-islamic tradition. This lead to errors of judgement. But I suspect that more people are interested in hinduism because of gandhiji than any scripture, guru, or sect.
If as hindus all we do is find ways to put down our people, then why shouldn’t the rest? If you are so passionate against gandhi-ism what is it that you are for? Are you ready to kill for India - join the military. Are you ready to burn mosques for you beliefs - you may as well be muslim. Have you taken an oath to a nation (citizenship) as Gandhiji did and do you stand by your oath or was it an opportunistic act?
Clearly Gandhiji is important to the modern conscience of Hindus. Clearly we must incorporate his approach into our (positively or negatively). But are we just arguing over the depth of whether or not Robin Hood was gay? - discussing/berating a person who is dead. If that is what you want to do would you, as a human, not want to focus on say Hitler, Bin Laden, The family Saud, Mohamed, Jesus…
hariaum
January 27th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Gandhian ideas are not based on Hindu ideals.
According to Sri Aurobindo, Gandhism is Russian-Christianity, not rooted in Hinduism. On June 22, 1926, Sri Aurobindo said,
“Many educated Indians consider Gandhi a spiritual man. Yes, because the Europeans call him spiritual. But what he preaches is not Indian spirituality but something derived from Russian Christianity, non-violence, suffering, etc. The gospel of suffering that he is preaching has its root in Russia as nowhere else in Europe—other Christian nations don’t believe in it.”
“Gandhi is a European-truly, a Russian Christian in an Indian body. And there are some Indians in European bodies! When the Europeans say that he is more Christian than many Christians they are perfectly right. All his preaching is derived from Christianity, and thought the garb is Indian the essential spirit is Christian. He is largely influenced by Tolstoy, the Bible, and has a strong Jain tinge in his teachings; at any rate more than by the Indian scriptures-the Upanishads or the Gita, which he interprets in the light of his own ideas.”
Gandhi had never believed in the divinity or historical existence of either Ram or Krishna, who are considered as the reincarnation of the Brahman, the supreme creator or The God in Hinduism.
In Harijan (27-6-1937), he says, “I do not mention the names of Rama and Krishna because they were not historical figures…” In his statement in Tej (5-8-1925), he says, Mahabharata’s Krishna never existed on earth.
Gandhian pacifism is not rooted in Hinduism either.
On July 23, 1923, Sri Aurobindo said, “Purification can come by the transformation of the impulse of violence. In that respect the old system in India was much better: the man who had the fighting spirit became the Kshatriya and then the fighting spirit was raised above the ordinary vital influence. The attempt was to spiritualize it. It succeeded in doing what passive resistance cannot and will not achieve. The Kshatriya was the man who would not allow any oppression, who would fight it out and he was the man who would not oppress anybody. That was the ideal. Gandhi’s position is that he does not care to remove violence from others; he wants to observe non-violence himself.”
January 29th, 2007 at 3:04 am
another view:
Jyotishi wrote:
> Is Gandhi really our “Rashtrapita” ?
Forwarded message:
Mahatma Gandhi: Father Of The Nation
Mahatma Gandhiji is revered in India as the Father of
the Nation. Much before the Constitution of Free India
conferred the title of the Father of the Nation upon
the Mahatma, it was Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose who
first addressed him as such in his condolence message
to the Mahatma on the demise of Kasturba.
Ba and Bapu had been interned at Aga Khan Palace, Pune
in the wake of the Quit India Movement. It was while
serving the prison term Kasturba passed away on 22
February, 1944.
Concerned about Gandhiji, Netaji sent the following
message to the Mahatma on Azad Hind Radio, Rangoon on
4th June, 1944.
“. . . Nobody would be more happy than ourselves if
by any chance our countrymen at home should succeed in
liberating themselves through their own efforts or by
any chance, the British Government accepts your ‘Quit
India’ resolution and gives effect to it. We are,
however proceeding on the assumption that neither of
the above is possible and that a struggle is
inevitable.
“Father of our Nation in this holy war for India’s
liberation, we ask for your blessings and good
wishes”.
The above message also proves beyond any doubt
Netaji’s ‘reverence and warm feelings towards Gandhiji
whom he had addressed as The Father of the Nation’
There have been many queries as to how could Gandhi be
called the Father of an ancient civilization like
ours. No one is questioning the antiquity of this
ancient land.
But India, that is Bharat as we know today that has
emerged out of an old civilization is a recent
phenomenon. This multicultural multi-ethnic country
became a Nation-State owing allegiance to one
Constitution, one flag and one Government only on 15
August, 1947. Mahatma Gandhi crystallized about him
the living forces of the soil.
So it seemed to a vast millions of Indians, and who
saw a Father figure in him and whose ‘Bapu’ he was.
- Dr. Savsita Singh
http://www.gandhi-manibhavan.org/main/q1.htm
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
__________________________________________________________
January 29th, 2007 at 4:14 am
I am very sure that Netaji Subhas had a great respect for Gandhiji. However, that is not the issue. The issue is whether Gandhiji alone with his non-violence resistance obtained the freedom for India.
According to Clement Attlee, the British prime-minister in 1947, Gandhijis non-violence movement had no effect on the British decision to leave India. according to him the creation of the Azad Hind Fauz had destroyed the confidence of the British on Indian Sepoys. The revolt of the Indian Navy in Bombay and Karachi in 1946 were decisive blows to the British Raj.
February 5th, 2007 at 11:04 am
In my openion Ramdev is 100% right. I have read so many book writter on freedom. Lacs of people given their lives in so many ways for freedom then how can we say “We got freedom in non-violence way”. There are so many examples “Chandra Shekhar Azad, Bhagat Singh, Lal Lajpatrai, Rajguru, Savarkar etc. who gave ther life in british violence. Gandhiji, Jawahar Lal etc. are cunning leaders. If it is says that the country achieved independence without bloodshed, it is an insult to the country’s martyrs”.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Your web site is excellent. Please keep up the good work.
D.D.Misra
ddmcmri@hotmail.com
April 16th, 2007 at 7:37 am
Well, if congress believe in non violence, I think then it should stick to non violent agitations, and not adopt to violent practices and say they believe in GANDHI philosophy. This shows they are nothing but true politicians. HE HE
April 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Guru Swami Ramdev has been wrongly accused by the Congress - he has in NO WAY insulted the Mahatma. All he has done, rightly, is to point out the efforts of others leading to independence. What is worng is saying that?
I am wondering if Bapuji is being re-judged today by Indians, and the Indian History? The Congress party today is not the Cognress that the Mahatma founded and left hehind for us. Todays Congress is working against the interests of the Indians (Indians are: Seikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Christian Indians & Jewish Indians), and only remains in power because of the Islamic support. Mrs. Sonia Gandhi & Rahul do not enjoy the support or the confidence of the Indians, but only of the Muslims living in India.
The Mosques in India are safe from the Indians, but the Indian Gurdwaras, Temples & Churches are being attacked by Islamic terrorists living in India whereby all the Congress can do is to build walls around temples to protect it for attack? From attack by Mrs. Sonia Gandhis Muslims!
And the Congress has the audacity of accusing teh Swami Ramdev? Shame on you Congress.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:38 am
I agree with what Swami Ramdev said, Mahatma gandhi created a “laher” of independent in india. but if our “Krantkari” didnt create a headace for british rule they neaver quit India. The Role of Mahata Gandhi poses a important place but we can not forget to Netaji, Bismil ji, bhagat singh ji, azad ji and many more who sacrified themselves to get an independent India.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Manoj Dwivedi says:
” but we can not forget to Netaji, Bismil ji, bhagat singh ji, azad ji and ..”
Admittedly many Muslims too contributed to Independence however, is it also not equally true that they had a hidden, and therefore a dual Islamic agenda?
You mention Muslim men such as Bismil ji & Azad ji - whose “loyalty” in public was seen to be with The Mahatma & Nehru, but in reality, their quiet allegiance most probably lay with Jinna who was their “leader in waiting”, in conjunciton with whom these very men were probably plotting the creation of Pakistan, unknown the The Mahatma, as the possibility of an Islamic State of India was not achievable.
How otherwise, was Jinna in full readiness if such an agenda of cordinated efficiency & organised support of Muslim masses and politicians was not pre-arranged for “in-time” action?
It’s men like Bismil & Azad who engineered the partition of India because they did not want to live under the majority rule of Hindu India - I am therefore ever sceptical about the Muslim “sacrifice” as suggested here by Manoj.
We suffer, today, the consequences of their Islamic agenda and the intolerant behaviour in India and indeed worldwide for that matter, which menifests itself in the form of terror attacks on the innocent.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
How can you forrgate bhagat singh netaji ajad ji and otrher krantikari.,..you can not imazene without vilence to acheive fredome in those time. the methode was used by our krantekaries is specific for those time.In this time we can use those methode. violence and non vilence are equelibria for those time to to achieve freedom. must not give political issue to a free ideas. by , Harishail sonkar B.H.U. Botany(hons)
January 18th, 2008 at 2:11 am
All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga!
ABSENCE OF WAR IS NOT PEACE!
LORD SRI KRISHNA’S ULTIMATE PEACE FORMULA
Real wisdom. From India’s greatest spiritual emissary, His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the Yuga Dharma Acarya who, without discrimination, peacefully spreads Hari Nama Samkirtan, as well as the Highest Ideal Vedic Principals, to every country of the World.
“Absence of war is not peace. Just think over. Suppose now there is no war. Do you think that everybody is in peace? Ask any individual person that “Are you in peace? Are you in peace of mind or peace of body?” War is not only the cause, there are many other causes which disturb our peace. War is one of the causes. So simply if you stop war, that does not mean peace is guaranteed. No. War is one of the disturbing things of peace. But there are many other disturbing things, many, incalculable, which will disturb you. You see? So we have to take relief from all disturbing position. War is one of the items. And that can be done when you are Krishna conscious.
You cannot, I mean to say, completely eradicate war from the social life. Just like government maintains the law and order force. There is necessity. Why the government maintains so much police force and military force? There is necessity.
Our position is that, so far our material existence is concerned, we are under the entanglement of repeated birth, death, diseases and old age, these four things do not depend on war or peace. Suppose there is no war. Can you get free from diseases? Suppose there is no war. Can you get free from death? Suppose there is no war. Can you become, remain a young man all the time? No. Your problem is these four things, not war. You have to solve that thing. Janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-doshanudarshanam [Bhagavad-gita 13.9]. Bhagavad-gita says that this war or no war, that is no question. So long the human society will be there, there will be sometimes fighting, sometimes peace. That is another thing.
A learned man sees that, “My problem is that I don’t want to die. Why there is death? I don’t want to be old man. Why is there is old age?” These are… These are the problems. Real problems. These are the problems. Janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-doshanudarshanam. Suppose there will be excessive heat. “Oh, I am so much disturbed.” There is no peace. Oh, there is excessive snowfall, cold. “Oh, I am disturbed.” So there are so many disturbances. So we have to get free from ALL disturbances, because I do not want it, my nature does not tolerate these things; but I have been forced to tolerate.
That is your problem. That can be solved by Krishna consciousness. We are talking the wholesale solution, not a particular thing. There are so many disturbing things, especially they are under the headings of these four principles: janma-mrityu -jara-vyadhi-duhkha-doshanudarshanam [Bg. 13.9]. So… Mad-dhama gatva. Just the other day we discussed the shloka, that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] “Now, one who becomes Krishna consciousness, then the result will be that just after quitting this body, he comes to Me, no more coming to this material world.” So long you’ll be in the material world… Material world means so long we’ll have this material body, we’ll have to face so many disturbances. War is one of them. Suppose there is, perpetually, there is no war. Do you mean to say there will be perpetual peace? No. There are so many other things. At once, if there is some upheaval in the Atlantic Ocean, the whole thing is swallowed up, your beautiful New York City will be no more there. There are so many natural disturbances.
Bhagavad-gita does not say that stop war. Bhagavad-gita says stop your repeated birth and death. Bhagavad-gita is not concerned with the war principle. The war will remain so long the human society is there. Because, so long the human society will continue, there is no history that there was no war in the history. So war there will be there. So we have to make a wholesale solution of all principles. That is the point.
Krishna says, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya: [Bg. 4.9] “If you become Krishna conscious, the result will be that after finishing this term of your body…” We have got different terms of body. “So this term of body, you come unto Me.” Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama [Bg. 15.6]. So our problem is that. We are not going to adjust here. Here any kind of, any amount of adjustment will not make us happy. That is a fact. Because this place is like that. So we have to completely get free from this repeated birth and death of the material world and go back to home, back to Godhead and live peacefully with eternal life, knowledge and bliss. That is the whole thing Bhagavad-gita is teaching.”
www.asitis.com Bhagavad Gita As It Is by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
March 18th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Pravin-
Bismilji and Azadji refer to Ram Prasad Bismil and Chandrashekhar Azad who were both Hindus. Both of them died before Partition. They were both fighting for a united India.
I’m surprised you haven’t seen the movie “Rang De Basanti”.
October 27th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
hi am joseph who is wishing to join the indian culture with my hole heart
October 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Joseph -
Welcome to Hindu Voice UK!
What part of Hindu culture do you wish to know more about?
Do you wish to convert to Hinduism?
Get back to me and we can move on from there.
Regards,
Keshav