Hinduism: Aryans, Invasions & Myths???
Pick up any textbook on Hinduism, and chances are that the beginning of Hinduism is identified with the ‘Aryan invasion of India’, dated around 1500 BCE, and their composition of the Rig Veda. According to this viewpoint, the ‘Aryans’ were a tall, fair skinned people who originated from outside India, and who are responsible for the composition of the Vedas and thus the founding of Hinduism.
December 26th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
It is informative things for our roots,
even we can have more details on Dhora Vira, Kutch, Gujarat.
Dave R T
December 26th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
All,
This actual history of India is well-known among historians and is based on scriptural and literary evidence of the Puranas correlated against the Vedas - with the timeframe synchronization of archaeological evidence and even some genetic data. Please download and read the Royal Chronology of India at: http://www.newdharma.org/India_Chron.zip and let me know if you have any questions.
Regards,
- Niraj
December 27th, 2006 at 2:18 am
I have often wondered about the origin of the label Hindu. It is relatively recent label as my impression is that the religious beliefs and philosophies of South Asia date way back and certainly the Aryan Invasion story has been roundly thrown out as a fairy tale. Sadly as the history is written by the victor the story remains as true for many.
Mr Mahankkas link should be very useful.
December 31st, 2006 at 5:11 pm
An elegant article that concisely summarizes a long and contentious debate. One could drown in this topic, but it’s probably not worth the effort.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:37 pm
I think there are more arguments in favour of the aryan invasion theory than against it.That the people who conceived the vedas came from cold is scientifically substantiated. The worship of sun, fire the search for patoral land, the very word arya which has common roots with ‘fair’ civilisations. Ireland is Eire , Iran is Aryan, Arier in nordic languages. Now Hinduism is no religion. A religion must a have a prophet and a set of codes and doctrine. We have none. The word Hindu is of Arabic origin. It is found nowhere in our sacred books A convenient usage by traders and travellors who came in contact with Inida along the Sindh river and thusd everything east of it described as Sindhu or later Hindu. The trend to downplay the aryan invasion theory is morepolitical than scientific in origin.It is a BJP ploy to tell the Dalits and and others that look here we are not invaders since there is this undercurrent against caste Hindus. Ther is no carbon dating for anything that the new hypothesis is advancing
January 3rd, 2007 at 4:52 pm
As I understand it there was no evidence of an invasion. Invading rulers tend to put up monuments to themselves to show the subjected who’s in charge - Taj Mahal. Invasions also implies weopens and mass killing.
A migration would be possible but then the migrators would have been included in the native society, not vice versa.
Genetic data suggests that migrations to India occured about 60,000 and 30,000 years ago from the south and the north respectively. So if the aryan invasion theory says the invasion occurred 30,000 years ago, I’m ok with that.
If you find the site (I think its been secreted off) the CIA did a demographic study to anticipate the future population effects on geopolotics. It takes the population projections back to the year 0. The density of the population of the Indian and Chinese shorelines is higher than that of Rome or anywhere else. Such population density implies a social structure far more complex then anywhere (simply logistically to support it) and Rome was complex.
So people can believe history started only in the last 2000 years because that when their god decided to show up. They can believe that it started 6 billion years ago because some mathemetical theories suggest so (with empirical data to support it). They believe that there was an invasion that left linguistic marks. They can even believe Z comes before A. Ireland was a part of the Aryan belt. Our phenotype clearly connects us from Ireland to India. The Indian phenotype is complex enough to represent multiple peaceful “invasions” of mising genetics.
Now you can decide if the center of that belt was where there was greater anarchy or less? Is the source of English culture in africa or England? You must then step back and ask why you need to know - for the accuracy of the historical record, the proof of your own ethnic supriority, the denial of your own historical responsibility (they did it to us)….
hariaum
January 4th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Thank you Niraj Mohanka for that web site. It has a treasure on Vedic History and current happenings. On Aryan Invasion, I recommend this book: The Invasion That Never Was - by Michel Danino and Sujata Nahar. Michel is a French Journalist and a disciple of Shri Arobindo who has been living in Bharat for over 30 years, mostly in Pondichery. Michel has given ample archaeologocal proof as well as the reasoning behind this fabricated theory.
January 5th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Apart Maj Gen aps Chauhan, no-one wants to hear this. However, this fact is alarmingly clear. The Vedics had an Impressive Reverence for strength read the RV and you will see the Honor they place on the horse.
a) Yet there is no mention of The Elephant. The massive battletank on the ancient fields of Indian war. The Vedics do not mention these powerful beasts prevalent in India.
b) They do mention the camel, absent in Vedic times in India
Answer. These peoples lived outside current ‘India’ or the book was written outside India. So when Micel / Frawley et alia explains this matter I will pay higher regard for their work. Blind faith is Catholic or Islamic. Intellect is Bhramin.
Veda Shakti!
January 5th, 2007 at 9:18 am
“So when Micel / Frawley et alia explains this matter I will pay higher regard for their work.”
would Shri Deenoji will kindly explain what actually he wants to express please? sorry that i didnt understand him.
namaskaram
January 5th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
In answer
Why is the Elephant missing from the Rig Veda
January 5th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
why?
January 5th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Exactly why would the elephant be missing. The only answer is that the Vedics had never seen an elephant because they were not in the borders of vurrent India
January 6th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Just to add to the information, very recent excavations in Southern Russia have yielded metal images of Lord Vishnu! Those interested may like to get more details on this from appropriate sources. If I get I shall definitely pass on.Will contact the Russian Embassy.
January 6th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Major. Why were there no war elephants in the RV?
January 7th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Deenoji,
Did you ask your questions in a way that could be understood (meaning detailed questions) to people who are scholars and who have studied this subject or conducted research? There is the site of Dr David Frawley and so many others.
Why I am asking this to you because, you could be in a position to see the contradiction, if any, when they reply as possibly you have studied this subject at some length where as most of us are new to this topic and know little and coming across this only now.
However, i would like to bring to your notice something which Aurobindo and Sw Vivekananda had to say on this.
++++++++++++ pl read on+++++++
Some Hindu thinkers like [[Sri Aurobindo]] reacted against the Aryan Invasion theory on spiritual rather than historical grounds, claiming them to be “materialistic.” Sri Aurobindo interprets the descriptions of war in the Rig Veda often as descriptions of spiritual warfare or as nature-poetry. He also warned against the misuse of the theory: “So great is the force of attractive generalizations and widely popularized errors that all the world goes on perpetuating the blunder talking of the Indo-Aryan races, claiming or disclaiming Aryan kinship and building on that basis of falsehood the most far-reaching political, social or pseudo-scientific conclusions.”Sri Aurobindo: The Secret of the Veda Some Hindus have emphasized the fact that there is not an explicit mention of an Aryan invasion in the Hindu texts. Aurobindo thus writes: ‘’”But the indications in the Veda on which this theory of a recent Aryan invasion is built, are very scanty in quantity and uncertain in their significance. There is no actual mention of any such invasion…”‘’(Sri Aurobindo. The Secret of the Veda. Sri Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry. 1971: 23-4) Also [[Vivekananda]](Vivekananda, Complete Works Vol. 3) remarked: “As for the truth of these theories, there is not one word in our scriptures, not one, to prove that the Aryan ever came from anywhere outside of India, and in ancient India was included [[Afghanistan]]. There it ends.”
namaskaram
January 7th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Paira - Far too often seemingly esteemed persons have weighed in their viewpoint treating us with a juvenile mentality. We are educated and all capable of producing itelligent outcomes (this includes the Shudras & Dalits all they need is access to information).
You must be pressed into questioning when the elepant is missing?
This is where forensic work starts and mysticism has to step down. Sri Auro et alia are far too inclined to mystify scripture. God knew that man would be the reader o fthis faith. He knows mans’ limitations so he did not make it mystic. Have you read any parts of the RV on www.scared-texts.com.
Yes I have written for years to these ‘well meaning persons’ no reply. In addition I would very much like to know that RV was from India so I never pressed the point. Consider it a Bhramin Protectionist move. Guilty as charged. But I now publicly admit this to mend my own errors. The question remains (with you & other readers) so please take a stab at answer.
Stop denying Your intellegence and ability. You are made by God. Express yourself knowing this.
Veda Shakti!
January 7th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Aryas(correctly called rather than aryans) are,were,and will remain in India. They might have migrated to other places sometime but the source of Aryan race,culture and civilization was, is and will remain India. There is an overwhelming evidence in support of this. In fact in order to say oherwise(which was a part of propaganda) , very tenuous and flimsy,unproven arguments were put forward by those people who ‘discovered’Aryans in India 3000 years after Indians haven been calling themseleves Aryans all along.(Hindu is a name given by foreigners.In none of great liturature is word Hindu mentioned not even religois text of recent origin).
The Salient features of early Aryans are:
(a)Sanskrit speaking
(b) Respect for Cows and Fire-both worshipped and highly regarded.
(C) Never seen Sea (vast rivers would be regarded as immence.)
(d) almost village living and only small towns as Capital.
(e)High moral living of philosophical class(Brahmins) who after much Study would enjoy highest sociol status(though voluntarily livig poor).
(f)NO shopkeepers.-Aryans thought any profit motive highly undesirable and fitting for low sort of beings.
(g) Horse and Archery as main weopens.(Even later on old Persians and parthians and Sassanids-in Persia, were known to Greeks as great Archers.)
(h) IN old Babylonians chronicles Aryans(”who knew no cities”) came from East(and Not west). IN RIgveda (earlist poem in the world) They are shown as fighting amongst themselves in Western India for the dispute which had arisen more than 10 generations ago in the Aryan Kingdom of Eastern India(Hahaya in Maharashtra, Kashi and Videha in eastern India).In other word the original most aryans moved from their homeland in middle and eastern Gagentic plains and moved west.One the the tribes(Druhu) actually went and conquered west(Iraq?) and settled there.THat is what you get from early liturature(Ofcourse religios but incidently mentiong geniology of Brahmans and kings which mostly agree with each other. NOw ehen the Aryans moved west from their homeland(Called Aryavart_Land of the Aryans) they founded Kassite,mittani and earlier Hittite empires. THeir greatest enemies were Asur. Hindu and early Hindu literature is full of dislike of Asur and most of famous Hindu leaders are supposed to have fought against them.IN no other’s early liturature (or even late ones) is there so much mention of enemity against Asur as in early and late Hindu literature.INcidentlly the Mittani’s name eg.mitra,dutta etc. is still common in eastern INdia.THe real name of Hittes was Hatti(a caste in Northern India) and of persians was Persu(a famous clan in India.Even the Persians movedto where they were from East. That is why Herodotous did not know (or any non-aryans0 about Persipolis which was in eastern part of Persia and considerd their sacred place. But these are is only for Peripheral glimpse of what Indian Aryans did in the west. THe aryans alwas considered their homeland most sacred(THat is Northern India). There is no hint of they ever rememring land west to India except in contempt(THat also only in later part of literature).Ofcorse in a religios text (because Kings never had any absolute power in India)not all matters relating to kings or others are mentioned.For example Salt is never once mentioned when they where living near Salt mines in Punjab.
What the Aryans looked Like? IT is in this that much evil has been spread by the british. In fact much before Hitler, the great Sanskrit Scholer ( ) wrote in 1912 that many22Englishman are claiming themselves to be arayans which is preposterous.The Englishman was never an aryan and will never be”". After second world war the british government persuaded the Australians to import only “Aryans” people. They meant themselves. AS isf 2 world war never happened! No the riginal German and French Scholars never mentioned that Aryans homeland is any where other than India. It is only when the real great Power of Europe(France,Austria,Prussia and Russia) fought amongst each other after a long British conpiracy that this Pirate turnede shopkeepers race(much like Heyena after fight amongst lions) _that is the English got power first and how they misused it1 They spread like a disease ,more like a cancer and destroyed deliberately the economy and culture of this world. In that plan they first said that Sanskrit was brought to India by Alexander.When furher evidence came then the pushed Aryans1 arrival in India at 500 B.C. In other word they were creating mishive in their own evil ways(As they alays do nless checked by others).Ever since that the the british propaganda machine(English know only piracy, shopkeeping,spying and plumbing) has been active in this evil. Ofcourse The Aryans have alwas stood againstthese evils so beloved of this race of pirate turned shopkeeper turned landlord turned so called aristrocracy who won any thing not by military but by spying.Hitler should have been envious of these people’s propaganda machinery!
Any way point is what Aryans loked like. Well In very early a Brahamin Priest is invoking Gods for boon of Son. And he describes what his future son be like.He clearly mentions that the son desired would be Krishna(i.e.Black-dark complexion).No body can be more Aryan than ‘RAM’ who is described as dark complexion.RAM was born in the most Aristrocracy of he Aryan Race.Iskchaku branch of Aryans is the most aristrocat of all the peoples.ANd He was dark comlexioned.If the aryans had thought of otherwise they would have made HIM GOD. Now we know that the early persions were also Aryans.Therefore the descendents of early Persians and early Indians sould look similar in some ways.WEll we have the evidence of that in Pictures from walls of Persiplis,the coins of DARAYAUSH(Wrongly called Darius as was KURUSH wrongly called CYrus). We also have picture of sassanids and descendents of persians from that Empire. We also have picture of Some Indian Rulers before and after christ.(WHEN INDIANS always called themselves by name of Aryans.). ALL the pictures or images have 2 striking features.Hirsutism and Parrot or Eagle like nose. That is wht thethe Brahmins and high caste hindu man have. SO have the Parsis, the descendents of Sassanids and persians.In India because of purity of food ritiual the caste maintened their purity.(IT is nothing to do with racial purity).The caste originated from the different tribes of the Aryans.(It is difeerent from verna).In fact caste rule became strict only when Aryans first came out of Indaia and went to westr and to protect thietr purity from Asur and other undesirable western blood they made marriage more strict. Later on before christians the marriage rule baecame most strict (and the same rules are now) in order to protect their purity from low born westererns. Any way the result (intended or not) is that they not only maintained the racial purity of Aryan race but also the different tribes and subtribes (which went on to become caste and tribe based Janpad-states and provinces). In old hindu literature their is alwas descripton fo people with beard. Even now most of North Indians have atleast mustache and some of the girls in Punjab(where now more aryans are supposed to be) are somwehat hirusite. Now You want to knoe what Early Aryans looked like.There are millions but I will give ask You to look at only 2 pictures. -That of Indira Gandhi and OF Jubin mehta(OF ISraeli philhormonic fame). Indira gandhi comes from a very high class Brahaman family and Jubin mehta is a Parsi -descendents from old Persia.What do you see similar. Ofcourse Nose. AT the lower third or at the end it gets beaked . In profile the nostrils look like bowed. and the nose meets Eyes in particular way. IN Indian literature the great personases have been described in the same way-Parrot or Hawk like nose.Incidently the Aryans have alwas been in good term with Jews. It was after all Kurush who released the Jews from Babylion captivity. In fact this racism in Europe was brought by the Bandit army of ricard in 12 th century when he and his bandit horded spread jew haterd in Europe.Ricahrd had killed all jews in England who owed him ar his bandit army any money. PRobably that is the lesson the rest of the world may well emulate(quite rightly) in order to relive themselves from bebt burden(usuray)of Anglo saxon banks.
Yes Hitler decride against Lithuanians who have more element of aryan race than anybody in Europe, against who are most aryan of all the peo[ple in Europe. His caricature of hokked nose as Jewish might well have been against race as well.
In 200 A.D. there were living the goths(OEStro) in near black sea.IN 200 B.c and before; many Budhist religious missionary(Budha caleed his religion-way of ARYANS.Budha was of ISCHaku clan .the same as that of RAM but much later.)had been active in that Area as in antolia and Egypt.Later those eastern germanic race (Who later were subjugated for 100 years by mongolian race HUNS) were practissing a form of religion called Arian. IT appered that these germns(Oestrogoths only) got this word ar from those Indian Budhist missionary and as early christianity was much influenced by Budhist thought , there is very much possibility of this happening. ANyway not since than, ot before either or after for almost 1800 hundred years do we ever about aryan word in GErman vocabulary.IN India it is everywhere.And we are to believe otherwise. This the effect of propaganda by the shopkeeper’s race. That is why the aryans (and all aristrocatic people like French) have been aganst giving any power to the shopkeepers.
THe Romans have written about The Kelts and The Germans(TO the Greeks they were the same)The reason they appeared the same to the Greeks is apart fom other reason (LIKe they might be really the same but in much much earlier times) is that Greeks and ROMan civilization was eastern mediterrian civilization. In fact what is called West today was never civilized before 1400 in history. Propaganda would like to make you othrwise. ANyway the Germans and many great tribes are mentioned by JUlius Cizer and Tiberius.Names like Goths, Allamein, Franks,etc. The Germans never mentioned one people_Anglo saxonns to the Roman Emperors simly because even for the Gertmans of that time these Anglo saxons were too barbarians or may be They are too ashmed of them Or simply because these Anglosaxonswere never related to the German race(as they claim today). remember that the English never make their their relationship with the DUtch ,always with Germans.THat too after Germans were perceived to be strong and successfull .Recently When the Japenese got successfull, then the english people strarted making some relationship with the Japenese aswell(island etc.) Fact is these unimprtant people called anglo saxons were living in Swampland of Frisland in what is todays’ holland. they are more related to Dutch than Germans (Who never owned them ). In that marshland they were poor ,unimportant people who were subsisting on sea Piracy. And it is this Sea piracy which gave them some hope of existence. Sea piracy has been bane of gret many civilizations including Egypt. But striking thing is the total lack of what is called culture in civilized. It is this what gives way English people from the rest of EUrope.Having pirate power for 150 years prove nothing. THe people of Afganistan ruled much richer empire for more than 500 years.They have never been considered any civilization. IN America the the Eglish will pose and tell to their agent in u.s. “you have no history and culture ,look to we england -European culture.” First American history is not that new campared to England’s. When America was discoverd this england was a pariah country.,unimportant, unmentionable in aristrocatic gatheing.Moghuls four times refused to tgive them permisiion to trade saying that the ambassador of England wears the saort of such low quality cloth that even our Stable boy would not wear.” England was that poor even after statew sponsherded piracy and terrorism. ANd it would remain that wretched till the Great Lions(FRench,Germanb.c. asked an American right winger politician(on interview in Britain) as to how American People can even think of Electing someone like Dukakis who is a Greek and(according to british commentator)Too much situated near Africa(i.e. Greece being near Africa)?That shows what is going on here. For too long America has been behaving not independently but bidding British intersts abroad and at home. Irony is that what has made America great is the Non-British immigrants.While the british immigrants were the scum of the earth and arrived America pennyless(Even the Jewish immigrantsr hade more money with them campared to british immigrants on arrival to America) they (british acquired through cheating the wast swath of Land,and this land(in form of agriculture,mining,lumbering etc.)has been the mainstay of the property and livilihood of the England-derived immigrants. But hat has not made America great.Canada and Australia also has a lot of ill-acquired land-allmost all looted by the british derived immigrants. What sets America apart is the non-British derived immigants who did a lot for Science and technology, other commerce,Arts,culture. The vulgar culture (which the british are fond of reminding)is the culture of mostly England-derived immigrants to America. Even now the Asians who are immigrating to America are much richer, much educated and much cultured than britain has ever been.(In fact there has been no culture other than vulgarity,piracy and spying comig from the English race_a race of pirates turned shopkeepers).
now how come about that every President who wanted to take stand indendent of Britain in America on Domestic or Foreign has eithr been made impotent or killed(Abraham Lincoln, Kennedy,Robert Kennedy)?To understand that one has to remember British propaganda machinary(all sorts of media,BBB.,Papars, govt,etc) and britihs agents in America.Britain has always acted like a heyena(or dog) who let two or Three Lions(OF Europe like France, GermansO>P> But the French generals and admirals shaved the day for America. But that Traitor elements(Who worked against independece of Amerca and sises with enemy) were not only allowed to remain but also prosper. That very element in 1888’s started civil war on bidding from England who supplid them (enemies of America called Sotherns) with Arms, propaganda and what not.Civil war was not about blacks or about selling drugs(Tobacco,alcohol) it was another attempt on the part of Britain to exploit and enslave America. And it succesded in that.Ofcorse Britain has not won a sinle war on its own -it is by deviousness that it ever got anywhere in the world. The same tactics was applid in America. Her agents devasted American union and it has never remained true union in that sense.-British will see to that it never becomes one. Anyway after civil War ,some of the defeated british agents(Southerns) went to Canada where they could do further exploitation. But the tragedy is that the others were allowed to remain in u.s. Atleast their property (ill acquired anyway) should have been confiscated and those peoples made pauper. abut that mistake(and help from british spies) insured that these traitors to the cause of American independence remain entrenched in thier ill
When England ,At the height of its empire was facing defeat by the Germans. it is these british agents in america who maede iensure that America comes to resque of England.All in name of saving a democratic country(who had deceivebly,not throgh show of arms, sad enslaved so much of world-and very proud of it) against a country(Germany) who was quote ‘thinking of world domination.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
and also because the indian elite class is a traitor. and always has been as said b=y even sawmi vivekandnda.
June 1998.
Indian anglophile class -especially indian english language media -is a race of Coolies and traitors.
the same class of indians who are doing propaganda agasinty china today are the same people who forced rajiv gandhi in 1987 to make friendship with china(and recognise tibet as part of china) why-? because the usa had ben friend with china since 1984 and wanted india tobe friend too as opposed to russia.-therefore the indian parasite class foll=made the idnian foreing policy viz china not to suit india but to suit american interests-itis doing the same but in revere dirtection because their angloamerican masters want them to do it.
Congratulations to pakistan also for having exploded atomic bomb like India rightly did!
History is
full of nations much poorer, improving themselves first by making themselves militarily victorious
,by fair or foul means,over much richer and superior civilizations. That is exactly how
a race of pirate turned shopkeepers that is England and America made themselves rich.That is also why these pirate race of anglo-americans want to keep the ill gotten advantage by denying othersany means to get power or independence.That is the philosophy of nato.Who bothered about America before it stole Nuclear Technology from Germans? The other prominent makers of first atomic bomb were Italians and Hungarians,and thir country does not posses nuclear weaopn.From Americans who stole the technology did the british steal it.America also stole from the Germans Rocket and missiles technology.Now they want to make world astand still as it was in late ’91s through self drafted this pact and that pact.Now they want others not to have the same technology. In the same way the british stole Tea production technology , china making tech and what not from China.How much the british tea companies and british china making ones like royal daulton paying royalty to China?none!But they want others to pay for rubbish tech of ’60s retrospectivelly!! In fact even France is fed up with this cancerous anglo-american push to sell,indtead of much better Fernch food,rather rubbish tasteless food of anglo-saxons processed food industy which pushes for rotten and infected food like british beef. India should have sided with France and China to push for common interests.But India chose,under pressure from Anglophile english paper reading minority,to succumb to Low quality rubbish anglo-american products. And Pakistan
understands this duplicity and is not afraid to disturb that cosy arrangement of these anglo-american shopkeepers.
As for Bhutto saying that they will rather eat grass than not have bomb,
they have full filled that ambition when their prime minister asked pakistanis to
be prepared to even save in eating.Contrast that with response of Indian english knowing
class and their agents as represented by Indian english papers whose only worry
was that so called liberalization does not get stuck off.In fact Indian
atomic arsenal is necessary so that a country like america(whose infra-structure
know how and technology is much inferior to that of Germany,France and Italy) does not force
India(as it has been doing for some time) to accept third grade tech, and rubbish so called consumer goods .And here there are these english papers in India who were urging andia to give quick and special rebates
to americans .Those very americans who have always and will always act against India
and Indian interests.In fact America and britain(who really governs american foreing ,defence and economic policy)will always support pakisatan not be4cause they love pakis,on the contraire,but because for them pakisatan is an ideal means to poke and put a thorn on the body of India. These english papers and all cheap things that
they represent talk of India doing all those things that is already known to be agenda of american and british for India.It is no surprise.
The english media and so called westernized Indians are the voluntary (and sometimes paid) agents of foreign interests.They do not represent western interest either : they represent anglo-american interests which is an interest
of exploitation and by the sopkeepers race(anglo-americans) with not a single
drop of culture or taste. And one of these english papers was saying,when camparing India with pakistan than India has a large number of english speaking population(as if that was a positive thing even if it were true!) forgetting to add that
despite that those countries who consider themselves english speaking(and they do not include in that anyone but their own shopkeepers race of anglo-saxons)never at anytime have given value to Indians while always giving all help to (less english speaking!) Pakistan. Only thing
is India lose out on translators who would have been recruited from amonst Hindi speaking peoples!.(most of indians).
In fact these english speaking countries consider these english speakingIndians as coolies-which in fact they are.And pakistanies have refused themselves to be relegated to the status of coolies.Because they have self respect which these english media peoples(in India) have not got.Ten years ago the president of Ficci,an industry organisation and darling of Indian english media had demanded of Govt. of Indiato reduce armed forces(at height of kashmir and Punjab insurrection) and give free reign to foreign firms.And that sort of demand became a reality when Manmohan singh became
finance minister and narsingh Rao succemed to american pressure to not
only not test atom bomb but also pack up Agni missiles programmes. All the things that a
foreign enemy country would have demanded and america di demand. It is no surprise .Because
Manmohan singh, narsingh rao and all english media (who supported that illegal minority govt.with out mandate to bring fundamental change in India’s self reliability)-asll these creaures were and will
continue to be agents of foreign interests-paid or otherwise(resulting from their cooliness or in other words from their deep sense of inferiority complex).Thes creatures must be ferreted out from
political,economic and social power that they have misappropiated.In fact it would be better if these creatures
are sent to Pakistan who knows how to treat such sort of traitors. A govt. first duty is to protect her citizens from external and internal danger. These elites oppose that. At the same time naturally
these parasitic elites also oppose the main obligation of a citizen to the govt.-that is to give taxes.In fact only by the right of taking taxes is the govt.recognignized.If India has 200 millions of middle class,as these english indian media always talk about,then where is the corresponding income tax revenue to the Govt. of India?But these english reading population is the biggest tax evader any where in the world.
But What the Prime minister Mr. Bajpaye does? He ,in stead of attacking previous congress govt. and Janta Dal govt.(whose Gujral and Mulayam singh are disgrace to India having created nearly a revolt
in Indian Army)-He becomes apologtic and agrees to put self memoratorium. Instead of testing much bigger Hydrogen momb of such magnitude that 2 or 3 of them would be sufficient to destroy whole of pakistan,He
simply backs down on western pressure and pressure from western agents like english media in india and pressure from those peoples whose vote bank is peoples of dubious loyalty. Ofcourse that big hydrogen bomb would
be neede ,noyt to be used but to provide deterrence_that is the purpose of atomic weopon.But this Prime minister is
so much eager to please foriegn anglo-american countries(true enemiy of India) that he adrres Parliament not in his language but in english.That is why in recent rally of child labourers (children of 4 to 14 yers)-who could not even get primary education-
was addressed by the leaders in India in english.That is how much India has become a nation
of coolies and hangers on rather than develop any leader ship quality with confidence. And that is why george Fernances-not a friend of america-started making China a villain in the hope of appeasing America-number one enemy of India. Wht Gerge should have said,and what he has realized too late,
is that if others can keep nuclear missiles then so can India.And matter ends there.BUt no. he had
to appease real enemy of India-which are America and England-by annoying an asian super power.
Now what is the solution after this mess up.? First India has to devewlop long range nuclear missiles
and nuclear submarine ,able to attack America,so that India can deal with all sorts of challenge and not repeat
blackmail of Irak by anglo-american counties. And it has to rely on Herself.Give less social or economic position
to english lovers. Secondly India has to deveop bigger Hydrogen bomb-The previos test cdone in one go are not enough.Pakistan does not care about others’s opinion; India also needs confidence.
Thirdly India should agree to hand over Kashmir(which is gone within 10 years anyway) with
forcefull tranfer of muslim Population from India to kashmir and pakistan of those who are co-religionists of pakistan but living in India.
That will cut the bottom of so called secularists-who must also be sent forcibly to Pakistan and they willpreach secularism to pakistanies. As for the likes of Manmohan singh,Narsingha rao,Mulayamsingh yadavand their kinds-They must be beaten to death by a lynching mob so that in future nobody(and especialyy english lovers) will
ever dare to do so much harm to India.
January 8th, 2007 at 11:51 am
I think just visiting India and by its vibe you can only imagine something like the Vedas being composed there.
January 8th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
No to Kashmir transfer to the An-Aryans. Kashmir needs massive Indian Army force to neutralize any forces harming the citizens of Kashmir or India.
Absolute Force. It is a perfect region to test and hone India’s military prowess. Pour military into the region. Lock it down in a campaign of terrorist extermination. Anyone promoting anti India or religious hate should be sentenced to life and then given Chain Gang duties to better the peoples they were pouring their scorn on.
January 8th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
The problem with history is that it is predjudiced. We must look at the data but only a few people have all of the data and the date collected is collected with econmic and political interests (grants, hypotheses, etc.) If experts disagree about an event then how does a non-expert chose?
Certainly certain things have sufficient data to suggest that they probably did exist - the Roman empire, the greeks, the egyptians… Certainly other events have no evidence they existed - Jesus, divine revelation of scriptures, …
Now when there is an invasion there is a war. To postulate, then, an invasion implies a war and thus there should be positive evidence of a war. If there is no positive evidence of a war who is to conclude that an invasion occured? The scientific method assumes that the given wisdom of the day is correct and we have to find evidence that that wisdom is wrong. If the given wisdom is derived from political-economic interests is this a valid method?
Indeed, I suspect that there was a culture of people who looked like that swath from Ireland to India. Indded, that culture was sanskrit speaking. Indeed they had a communication network that worked throughout that culture. Now whether that capital was in Delhi, Ireland, or Russia is intersting. But to postulate an invasion is different then to postulate a center of culture - there were likely different centers.
so where is the elephant? - in the woods untamed; people tend not to worship untamed power.
Did the Rg worship power or simply understand that power was needed to accomplish anything? Do you read the scriptures simply? Did the wisest men (and perhaps women) of the time sit around a fire and sing drinking songs (1000 bottles of Soma on the wall, 1000 bottles of Soma) as their form of worship? Go a little deeper into human mind and you know it is much more than what you have read.
Do I really care if someone says Sanatana Dharma started on Satrun? No. For those who identify themselves as Indian, this is a matter of pride. For those who identify themselves as of Sanatana Dharma, this is irrelelvant. It is important to know one’s history, but only in that it teaches you - to debate, to consider, to challenge. To believe that history will tell you who you are is entirely mistaken. That is a question of the current time.
hariaum
January 8th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
So what you are sayin is that the elephant was in the woods and untamed. Therefore were the Vedics incapable of taming them or saw no use in such magnificent beasts?
I would add that wherever the source the truth is that Only those who uphold the Vedas are the Aryans!
Veda Shakti!
January 9th, 2007 at 6:02 am
agreed with the last from DS.
I don’t know where the elephants were. But I don’t know when the vedas were put down. Were they interested in elephants. The question of elephants asks about the regional ecosystem of the Vedas.
That is of course a temoral thing but clearly the vedas have referrance to time and place. But the lack of an elephant is much less meaningful than the lack of mass graves (invasion).
Even hisorians will throw back and forth answers to such questions.
Not being a historian, I simply look to see what I can learn from history. It is clear that whosoever writes it gets to tell their version of truth from an authoritative viewpoint while anyone who disagrees (Romans, greeks, Hindus, Egyptians, Hopi, Navajo, then has a greater burden of proof by the current “scientific” approach to history.
If I end up quibling over historical facts, without having done field work myself, I am theorizing only. But if I see a group intent on changing historical facts to suit their history I should be cautious in accepting their versions of it: Nazi’s wer Lutherans and other christians, the Rawanda Genocide was a Protestant v Catholic crusade, the annhilation of the native americans was an all christian process. Yet these are discussed in western history books as tribal, or political or economic causes. Recognizing humbug is important, Btu then acepting that same humbugs word as honesty is just plain dumb. Those are historical facts.
hariaum
January 16th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Can anyone help me find more information that proves this aryan invasion theary wrong, I personally believe it was just created to divide the people and make the whites seem more superior then the darks so we woudl accept that the gora invaders were supperior to us.
But yea any books or anything would be apretiated.
January 21st, 2007 at 8:22 am
‘Aryans are a tall, fair skinned people who came from outside and are responsible for the composition of the Vedas and founding of Hinduism, and that they invaded and settled down here around 1000-1500 BC’, so declare the Westerners and THEIR educated, trained and made blind-folded ‘Indian pets’.
But many idols, darlings and worshipped gods of these so called Aryans were stark dark. To name a few: Ram, Krishn , Ved Vyas and Aadi Bhagwan Shankaracharya. So was Draupadi, wife of the Pandavas whom Bhagwan Krishna endearingly called ‘Dark Lady’. King Ravana of Lanka was so dark that he was compared to a mountain of collyrium! The truth is that Hindus are of all shades and hues, darkest of the dark and whitest of the white, browns, fairs and yellows, as well.
If they migrated from outside and founded a rich and most exact computer-scientific language like Sanskrit, a ‘religion’ of the like of ‘Hinduism’ and all time poetical master-pieces like the Vedas in this country, why didn’t their fellow brothers do similarly in other countries as well? How is it that they did not found a culture, literature and religion so lofty, mighty and fathomlessly deep as ours there? Is it because the poetical class and top intelligentsia had settled down for this country while the duffers and dunces had decided to go elsewhere?
How could a ‘warrior’ race have created such masterpieces that are considered to be wonders of this world to this date like the Vedas (including Upanishads)? Max Muller called them ‘Songs of the shepherds’! Had no shepherd gone with them!
Then there are historical evidences. Kurukeshetra, where the Mahabharata was fought, is physically present even now. Arjun’s ‘Bhishma Ganga’ and his great grand son Maharaj Janmejaya’s copper plate mentioning the land donated at the time of ‘Sarpa Yagna’ to a family complete with name and date is available in a village in Southern Bharat.
Remains of the over-5000-year-old fort of the Pandavas can be seen in Delhi, and sites of the ashramas of Vyas and Valmiki at their respective places are still there.
Some time back, Bhagwana Krishna’s town of Dwarka (which is over 5000 years old) was discovered lying intact in the sea bed in Saurashtra (Gujarat) by world famous historian Rao, and NASA has printed aerial photographs of a bridge conjoining Bharat and Sri Lanka under the sea-bed in the Palk Straits between the two countries (Bhagwan Sri Ram’s Setu-Bandh). It has been dated 9 hundred thousand years old. Now, were Ram and Krishna or Pandavas and others not what they call Aryans?
What more could be needed to show the absurdity of this speculative ill-intentioned theory of the Westerners? They should speculate, if at all they are so pining to do, about their own origin - and not ours; because ours is already so certain and well documented in our Scriptures and Itehas-Puran Granthas that it does not stand in need of any labours of theirs and foolish flights of imaginations.
Bhagwana Brahma created ten Manas-Putras (sons) who were Gotra-Pravartak Rishis. Hindus are their offspring. Then He created himself in the form of Manu and Shatroopa, the primeval couple. Manu was given the Ek-Chhatraadhipatitva (sole rulership) of the entire Sapt-Dweepa Prithvi (entire universe). His offspring received the name ‘Manvas’ (humans) from him – Manoh Apatyam Manavaah.
Those who call the Invasion Theory ‘well documented’ are at liberty to do so. But that documentation is nothing but bundles of sheer speculations – foolish fool-hardy ones. If the propagators are so sure, why don’t they agree for a debate with Hindu scholars? They have not allowed even world famous scholars and researchers like NS Rajaram and SK Talageri to read even papers in their congresses, claiming they did not possess university degrees in history! Do they have any qualifications of the Hindu Shastras and Itehas-Purana Granthas to meddle in ours? But, they do – and do with a maniacal craze. Why?
January 21st, 2007 at 8:25 am
WORD ELEPHANT NOT IN RGVEDA?
When Veda experts like Mr. Sharma decree, “Word elephant is not mentioned in the Vedas”, and on that basis try to prove the correctness of the Aryan Invasion Theory, it ought to be accepted as an established truth! But how strange, it still remains a theory and not a law even after more than a century of such a hullabaloo by its supporters. Isn’t it then rudeness on the part of the experts not to agree to accept it as such?
Veda Bhagwan too should have bowed down in submission and acceded. But they have even the temerity to show the presence of the word ‘elephant’, not at one, but several places in the Vedas, including Rgveda!
If we showed the word and quoted the mantras, would the pseudo-pundits of the West (and West-blind-folded Hindus) agree that would disagree with the Westerners, and accept that it was a ploy of the missionaries and they, therefore, no longer are among its votaries?
Unless one has knowledge of the language of the Vedas and some basic coaching and training in them (including meaning and definition of the word ‘Veda’), one ought to refrain from passing any critical uncharitable remarks against them, because Vedas are Brahm. They are synonymous with Him. Isn’t it a blasphemy, therefore, for a Hindu to talk in that strain?
A Muslim does not talk indignantly or lightly of the Koran and Hadis, a Sikh of Guru Granth Saheb, nor does a Parsi of Zend-Avesta. Why do we? These critics ought to keep in mind that by so doing they were transgressing their norms; being uneducated and in-experts in them, they have no right of entry into this sphere, and thereby hurting the feelings of millions by their thoughtless remarks. Talking so lightly of the Vedas does not behove a Hindu at all.
WE CHALLENGE THE PROPAGATORS AND VOTARIES OF THE THEORY TO FIRST PROVE THAT THE WORD ‘ARYA’ HAS RACIAL CONNOTATIONS.
We declare most emphatically, “The word has not been mentioned in the sense of a race anywhere in the entire Vedic literature, much less the Vedas”. Without proving this first, the entire speculations are nothing but a futile, meaningless exercise and play of small naughty children.
January 21st, 2007 at 2:37 pm
To all. I cannot see the reason for discussing the AIT. Does it affect our Hindu-ness? No.
Does it help the Dalits? No
Does it help the NE Indian? No
Is it helping Congress to protect us? No
So please forgive withdrawing on this matter. I need to focus on helping those in need. I remain always a daily reader of this site and contributor where action is required.
Veda Shakti!
January 22nd, 2007 at 12:37 am
before I close i will quote the previous writer
“A Muslim does not talk indignantly or lightly of the Koran and Hadis, a Sikh of Guru Granth Saheb, nor does a Parsi of Zend-Avesta. Why do we?”
All these persons of these An-Aryan faiths give money to their cause. Is there any here who has to Hinduvoice / HinduHumanrights / Shakti marg?
As far as I am aware Only I have. It is healthy to do what must be done and not to gaze upon the actions of others. To gaze upon the actions of others is give Eminence to others. From my humble standpoint Only the Aryavarta is eminent because of its distinction of understanding that God came to All nations at the same time. There was no preferential nations.
Veda Shakti!
January 22nd, 2007 at 9:17 am
Deeno Shrmaji:
You had remarked, “Smriti has accommodated errors. There is no hell foe ‘Hindus’ nor ‘heaven’ simply rebirth and Moksha”, and I had promised to enter my comments when my computer got working again.
Why should persons like you, Aastiks, and, as per your words, Vedics to the core, make such erroneous and inaccurate proclamations? Vedas have proclaimed Manu as the father of mankind, and Manu Smriti’s every word to be as per the Vedas (Kr. Yajurveda, Taitt. Sam. 11.5.9; Taandya Brahmin 23:16:7 &Chhandogya Brahmin.)
Dipak Bose too agreed and accepted, that according to Rig.1:45:1, “Manu is even the creator of Agni, one of most important Devas created by Brahman (8th Dec.)”. How could it accommodate errors then? Responsible remarks are expected from Aastiks.
Are you sure hell and heaven are not in Rigveda? Could you prove it? No. You have been led to believe so by our foes and semi or anti-Hindus.
If heaven weren’t there, where would Indra, head of the Devas, be? Where would he be residing? And, if hell weren’t there, where would be the abode of Yama? Should you repudiate the very existence of Indra and Yama, you’d be repudiating your acknowledged super-most authority of Hinduism, our Sanatan Dharma, the Rig-Veda.
You must be reciting Gayatri three times a day in your Tri-Kaal Sandhya, don’t you? While doing that, don’t you recite ‘ Bhoor, Bhwah, Swah? What is ‘Swah’? And what is ‘Dyau-hau’ in Shanti Path, Swasti Vaachan and Bhadra Sooktam? Don’t you do these and/or know them? Why such a statement then?
Smriti does not become error accommodating simply by one’s stating so. It has to be proved, and proved beyond shadow of any doubt. We cannot believe you really meant what went out of your pen, most probably, inadvertently.
My prayer is, please do not make any such statement which in any way can hurt the beliefs and faith of our less informed brethren.
January 22nd, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Dr - No-one has asked what concept of heaven I am rejecting. If your argument stands You are giving credence to a Catholic & Islamic theorem.
If we can remove the entire concept of Heaven and Hell - Christianity & Islam falls apart.
Bhramin Duty
I have always considered it wise of a Bhramin to see far beyond the immediate issues.
In exercising this duty we must understand the ‘Selling Points of other faiths’ that is ‘Give unto the son of God Jesus and ye shall be saved from damnation’ Or ‘Only those who see the One true God whose son is Mohammed is saved from the fires of Hell’
In summary this is the purpose of these faiths (Fear - hell awaits if you don’t) that have caused 100’s of Millions of Gods children traumatic deaths and still this continues.
The answer lies in re-incarnation. The most Unique factor of Hinduism. Prove this theorem as the most plausible and we save millions from trauma and death.
I have a full a detailed computation which even commercially minded westerners are saying holds very good value to debunk heaven and hell and promote the truth of re-incarnation.
The answer lies in Proportionality and the discourse between Yama & Yudishtir.
MANU
For the record - I dispute that Manu is the father of mankind. This concept means that God came preferentially ie. where Manu was present. This is a very Catholic / Islamic notion.
From reading The Rg Veda. I know this
God came as Surya (The Sun) - to all mankind equally
He came as Vayu - (The Wind) - to all mankind equally
As Indra ( The Thunder & Rain) - to all mankind equally
As Varun ( The Great Sky Father) - to all mankind equally
As Mitra he brought us light from the darkness of winter - equally.
Vedic Gods have no regional preference. They chose neither Bharat, Nor Israel, Nor Egypt, Nor Germany etc to invoke their presence. The Gods of the Aryawarth came to all mankind with equality. It is only those who see this truth in its non-regional equality see the beauty of the faith of the Aryawarth.
This is the revelation I gleaned after my immersion in the Rg Veda.
With the foregoing paragraph widely taught in the NE, the Indians of that region will see that the faith they are abandoning is a faith of
TRUE Celestial Equality
Currently they are being led to believe that Jesus will be their savoiur. Well why did Jesus wait 2,000 years before he revealed himself for the benefit of the NE. Indeed why did he not reveal himself IN the NE? This is what happens with regionalizing. So the Manu promoters should try and see that their position needs a regional content and is therefore prefrential and therefore lacks Celestial Equality to All Gods Creatures.
We need to appreciate that God came to All mankind without regional preference. The Aryawarth have seen this and given names to his presence. He never came as one. But in many forms of natural forces.
Veda Shakti!
January 22nd, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Dr. RS, thanks for you exposition.
some recent genetic finds are very interesting to our puranic vision. There is data to suggest that we came from seven genetic lines originally (sapt rishi