Controversy over first Hindu state school in Britain
Plans for the first state-funded Hindu school in Britain are mired in controversy, amidst claims of child abuse against one of the affiliates in the proposed school. The I-Foundation, an educational charity, plans to open the ‘Krishna Avanti Primary School’ in 2008, in the London Borough of Harrow, for which the Government has awarded ÂŁ9.8 million.
I-Foundation is an affiliate and offshoot of the International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), also known as the Hare Krishna movement. ISKCON has had a number of child abuse cases brought against it in the past.
November 20th, 2006 at 9:44 am
I see a big crack in hindu- faith unity. How can ISKCON undertake running of HINDU faith school when its founder professed that ISKCON is NOT a HINDU organisation.
There are lots quotations by leading ISKCONites saying that they are NOT HINDUS.
Therefore dabbling in this issue is meant purely as a running after massive grant fund..selfish after money and power that goes with filthy lucre.
I suggest a CORE - and scandal free - HINDU organisation to take over this issue.
Again, if we are so so so keen for a HINDU faith school and if our convictions are sincere, why do we have to BEG, grovel, and lick the boots of filthy lucre mongerer.
Hindus must have same push as Muslims have..or let go the grant and develop its own funds..in fsahion similar to raising funds for temples.
If we can raise ÂŁ1.000.000 for BAPS temple, we surely can raise funds for school.
NO BEGGING, GROVELLING, AND LICKING BOOTS OF ANY GOVERNMENTAL OR PARASTATAL BODY.
R.M.JHALLA
November 20th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Since ISKCON’S founder was not interested in HINDU faith schools and as Mr. R.M.JHALLA has said previously this is simply an exercise in grabing money from the government. Therefore I must conclude that this proposal is all pure nonsense and thus ISKCON’S involvement will be disastrous for all concerned.
November 20th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
May I point out that the founder of ISKCON, H.D.G. Srila Prabhupada NEVER condoned violence against children in any way. He said many a times that the children are the future of the movement and that they should be educated in such a way that they become good citizens of the world and able to make a spiritual contribution to this troubled world. He was very much against violence to children in any form. The fact that ISKCON leaders started to disobey his orders after Srila Prabhupada left this world, led to the introduction of corporal punishment in the schools and is regretfully still prevalent in some schools in India. Gauri das seems to have been a part of this. Therefore, the current policies of child abuse are NOT directed by the founder Srila Prabhupada - in fact he condemned such notions vehemently.
November 20th, 2006 at 7:12 pm
Lets stop this infighting among us Hindus and stop looking for some petty excuses to stop the Hindu School.
We Hindus are already too late for Hindu School and we all Hindus must cooperate with ISKCON to make success of Hindu School a possibility.
For those Anti-Hindu who are not interested in Hindu School please you have option to send your children to secular schools but please stop bothering the Hindus who want to send their children to a Hindu School.
November 21st, 2006 at 3:04 am
“Lets stop this infighting among us Hindus and stop looking for some petty excuses to stop the Hindu School.”
How can it be a Hindu school when the founder of ISKCON denied that they were Hindus?
Hindus are not dumb enough to let self declared non Hindus to run Hindu schools, atleast I hope so.
November 21st, 2006 at 8:27 am
I am very proud of it at least someone taking the leads in the UK
November 21st, 2006 at 10:29 am
Yet again hindus are at war. Hinduism does not permit violence against anybody. if the government has pledged the money hindus need to unite and find people who can run it. Anybody who has been violent in the past is not suitable to head a school. Children and the parents need to feel confortable and secure. if any spiritual body runs it then it is not going to be successful as they will want to promote their own teachings mixed with hinduism. we need a good school without controversies.
November 21st, 2006 at 10:29 am
do wat most hindus do blame some one elsE!
November 21st, 2006 at 5:57 pm
If the incharge of school has a bad reputation ; he must leave himself. School shall not have controversy in that way. Begging has nothing to do if state finance the school. In Europe, governments do finance to promote intigration with other culture.
If Hindus can build Temples; of course they can build school too, do not underestimate yourself.
A Hindu is a born Hindu and nobody can change it. Be proud of it….
November 21st, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Iskcon is exactly that Is CON. Conning Hindus since its inception. They should be treated as such. They use hindus and ask for support when they get caught something bad like abusing kids and defrauding money. after that they go on saying they r not hindus.
SCUM LIKE THIS DON’T even deserve to say Krishna.
November 21st, 2006 at 11:11 pm
They are not all scum Park X.
Well not the ones I have met anyway.
Yes they are a bit stubborn in their views but are not any different to many other sects.
The Hare Krishna devotees may say they are not Hindus (Im not sure where you got that from) but they certainly keep good our faith.
How can they say they are not Hindus when Krishna and Rama are Hindus.
May be they like to call themselve of Sanatana Dharma.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:22 am
ISKCon is a Hindu organization because its founder has translated all most all Hindu holy books and the organization is propagating the messages of Sri Chaitanya. It organizes every year Rath Jatra of Jagannath. It is building huge temples in Bridavan and Mathura.
The reason it says that it is not a Hindu organization is the behaviour of the Indian government. Even Ram Krishna Mission, founded by Swami Vivekananda now applied to the Indian court to declare it a non- Hindu minority organization. Because India government otherwise, as it already did for the famous temples in Madurai, Kanchi, Puri, will take over the control of the fund, appoint government officers as administrators who will employ the executives and the teachers of the schools they operate.
India government does not have this policy for the minority religions only for the Hindu religion. That is the reason Hindu organizations are now saying they are not Hindu organizations but something else just to avoid government control over their finance.
India government by talking money from the Hindu temples is spending these money for the Christian and Muslim religious organizations. It is strange but true.
That is the exact reason ISKCON doews not say it is a Hindu organization, but in practice it is.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:32 am
Corporal punishments in schools in India are very common and it is not illegal. In fact most parents like it as it would mean very strict discipline. This is particularly true about the residential schools in India.
Child abuse in the West means sexual abuses of the Children, which is common in the Catholic schools. That type of Child Abuses are very uncommon in Indian schools.
No body has charged ISKCON schools are abusing children sexually.
Thus, ISKCON should give proper trainning for the teachers who are coming from India. They may not know that corporal punishments are illegal in Britain.
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:19 am
In an interview given for Varatya Vidya Bhavan’s Journal on June 28, 1976, Prabhupad, the founder of ISCKON said,
“India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. ”
Prabhupada simply denied the existence of a religion called “Hinduism.” He attributed the improper designation to “foreign invaders.”
“ISKCON Educational Services was established in January 1991, primarily to offer support to the educational world in its study and teaching of Hinduism. Hinduism, or more precisely Sanatan Dharma, teaches about universal principles and their corresponding values. Consequently, we have no interest in converting people from one religion to another, but wish to encourage every student’s moral and spiritual development, irrespective of their background or specific religious affiliation.” ( from ISKCON declarations)
“The International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) is part of the Vaishnava tradition, one of the three principal strands within Hinduism.
It began in Sixteenth Century Bengal with the saint Shri Chaitanya who promoted a revival of bhakti (loving devotional service to God) and ardently opposed the hereditary caste system.
Chaitanya’s teachings were not new, but drawn from the ancient Vedic texts, which embody the timeless, non-sectarian values of Sanatan Dharma (the eternal religion).” ( from ISCKON declaration)
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:26 am
There is a website for the ISKCON’s educational services in the UK:
http://www.iskcon.org.uk/ies/aboutus.html
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:30 pm
“No body has charged ISKCON schools are abusing children sexually. ”
Mr Bose you try to play you’re mr Knowall on very subject on this blog but now suddenly according to your above statement you seem to become blind to the truth.Unless you’re an Iskonite yourself and a child abuser even though to some they both mean the same thing or you’re a totally naive but the truth of the matter is that Iskcon have been convicted of child abuse cases and have been fined.There are many more scandals that Iskcon members have been involved in from murder to fraud and the list goes on.Iskcon is clearly a cult and nothing more and needs to be destroyed as its giving Hinduism and above all Lord Krishna a bad name.
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:31 pm
A list of sites and articles by HKs on child abuse activity withing IskCON.
http://surrealist.org/gurukula/articles/index.html
November 22nd, 2006 at 1:06 pm
If DIPAK BOSE supports ISCKON, it definately must be against Hindus.
November 23rd, 2006 at 6:12 am
Those ‘Child Abuses’ in the ISCKON schools were about corporal punishments, not about sexual abuses. Those who were responsible were expelled already.
If ISCKON is against Hinduism, who is for it ???
November 23rd, 2006 at 6:17 am
One can put up anything in the Internet. There are websites which says that Mahatma Gandhi was molesting his two nieces or Jawaharlal Nehru was a son of a Muslim etc etc.
Unless one can prove anything these are just propaganda against a Hindu organization ( ISCKON) because it is sucessful so far in promoting the Sanatan Dharma.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:02 am
THE INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF AMERICAN RELIGION.
P.O. BOX 90709, SANTA BAR8ARA, CA 93190-0709
(805)967-7721, (805)967-2669 FAX(805)683-4876
Dr. J. Gordon Melton. Director
A STATEMENT CONCERNING THE INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS
I am (since 1985) a research specialist with the Department of Religious Studies of the University of California Santa Barbara and an ordained minister in the United Methodist Church.
ISKCON has been forced to spent its formative years in the full light of a skeptical media and critical, even hostile environment. It has been thoroughly scrutinised, in part as a result of several lengthy judicial reviews, for more than two decades. No substantive charges levelled at it have stood the test of such examination. For example, in the case brought by former-member Robin George against ISKCON, it was charged that ex-members could never again reintegrate into “normal” society or have a stable family life. However, the only people brought to testify to this point were former members who had already by the time they testified been able to find a place in society and develop a new set of acquaintances outside of the group. It turned out that the great majority of charges against ISKCON were simply a standard laundry list of items which have periodically been used against different new religions as public attention moves from one to the other.
Simply put, ISKCON has been present in the West for twenty five years. If it was, in fact, a danger to society, we would have long ago discovered that threat and dealt with it. Rather than a danger, ISKCON has shown itself capable of raising up a religious community which turned a number of people alienated from society in the 1970s into substantial law-abiding citizens who have in turn developed a program of service to the community through its efforts to feed the poor and other acts of charity. ISKCON does not threaten any Country’s constitutional freedoms. Quite the opposite is true. In a series of cases it has been demonstrated that ISKCON’s constitutional freedoms have been continually threatened by its having to repeatedly defend itself on issues which have previously been considered by Courts and discarded.
I am not a follower of ISKCON. On a theological level I can find little with which I agree or with which I resonate. However, as a private citizen, I have no complaints and I would petition this court to act in their favour unless and until it has been demonstrated, by common standards of evidence, that they have acted against the state or have broken specific laws.
Respectfully submitted,
Dr. J. Gordon Melton
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:02 pm
‘Unless one can prove anything these are just propaganda against a Hindu organization ( ISCKON) because it is sucessful so far in promoting the Sanatan Dharma’
This is totally ridicoulous..Iskcon itself has set up a group for child abuse victims or do you think thats CIA undercover agents operating as Hare Krishnas. They themselves admitted to the crimes or is that all just a Hollywood court room drama ?Wake up and smell the coffee mate instead of trying to defend them over their adharmic activites.First of all convince them to class themselves as a Hindu organisation instead of us and at the same time you could also ask them to stop degrading other Hindu paths which they often do because they’re more influenced by monotheist way of thinking then the Hindu way.
November 23rd, 2006 at 6:37 pm
Can we stop this in-fighting? Have we learnt nothing from the 1,000 years of Moslem profiteering whilst Hindus argue. Stop it! Rise like Aryawarth.
All this wasted time arguing could have been spent finding the strengths that we hold. The only strength we seem to find is this pre-occupation with fighting with ourselves.
Rise Aryawarth you have lived forever and will do into enternity!
Veda Shakti!
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Dipak Bose Says:
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:32 am
“Corporal punishments in schools in India are very common and it is not illegal. In fact most parents like it as it would mean very strict discipline.”
>Not if the parents have to collect their children from the hospital after >they have been abused so badly.
“This is particularly true about the residential schools in India.
Child abuse in the West means sexual abuses of the Children, which is common in the Catholic schools. That type of Child Abuses are very uncommon in Indian schools.”
>It was also common in the ISKCON schools EVERYWHERE and that >means India too! The abusive teachers just got moved around. Check >some internet sites for details.
“No body has charged ISKCON schools are abusing children sexually.”
>That’s because most of them have been closed down in the West due to >past abusive behaviour. Any still remaining are very closely monitored >by the authorities.
“Thus, ISKCON should give proper trainning for the teachers who are coming from India. They may not know that corporal punishments are illegal in Britain.”
>They should also be told that sexual abuse of children is also illegal in >the UK and if caught can mean a lengthy prison sentence.
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:02 pm
“Can we stop this in-fighting? Have we learnt nothing from the 1,000 years of Moslem profiteering whilst Hindus argue”
Yes we have learnt from that and you have to be strong within first to survive and you cant have that when you have narrow minded cults like Iskcon taking full advantage of Hinduism and brainwashing younger Hindus into their narrow minded beliefs and attacking other Hindu gurus and beliefs.The amount of times I have had arguments with these morons while they keep on going on about is your guru or belief bonified I’ve lost count.
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:09 pm
OK Kumari
Give us your agenda. You will always have these weirdos. Its the fabric of life.
I tend to focus on the strengths and values of the faith. Even the best of armies have weaknesses. However, successful campaigns can still be waged becasue they focus on the strengths.
I would say let’s pull out the strengths. Would very much welcome your agenda. ATB
November 24th, 2006 at 2:21 am
Kumari said: “First of all convince them to class themselves as a Hindu organisation instead of us and at the same time you could also ask them to stop degrading other Hindu paths which they often do because they’re more influenced by monotheist way of thinking then the Hindu way.”
Read the declarations of ISCKON UK, they clearly claim to be a Hindu organization.
Hinduism, if you ever read Rig Veda, Upanisad and Bhagwat Gita believes in one God Brahman. Brahman is one and many. That is the message of Rig Veda.
Before going any further I suggest you to read these three holy books of Hindu rteligion. I suspect like many here in this website you have never read any of these holy books, and you have a very wrong impression about your own religion. Different Dev and Devis in Hinduism were all created, according to Puran, by Brahman and their powers are derived from the Brahman, who can take away their powers too, like what has happened to Indra. Thus, these devs and Devis are nothing but very powerful angels, they are not Gods. Nowhere in Hinduism, it suggests you worship rats or monkey or a stone. These are preversions of Hinduism.
Hinduism believes in one God, according to Rig Veda.
November 24th, 2006 at 3:05 am
“I am the one source of all”, Sri Krishna, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 10, verse 8
The Theory of Creation according to Rig Veda, Book X, verse 129:
” Then was not non-existent nor existent; there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
The ONE , breathless breathed by its own nature; apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
All that existed then was void and formless; by the great power of warmth( Tapasya) was born that UNIT.
Thereafter rose LOVE the primal seed and germ of SPIRIT.
Devas are later than this world’s creation.
HE the first origin of this creation; HE formed it all.
WHOSE eye controls this world.”
November 24th, 2006 at 3:40 am
In the website ISCKON says clearly it is a Hindu organization
Visit
http://www.iskcon.org.uk/ies/aboutus.html
It follows the Vaishnav doctrine of Sri Chaitanya, who followed Ramanuj. This is not a cult but the modern version of Hinduism.
ISCKON after the legal action against it in DALLAS, USA have settled the case out of court and paid huge sum of money ( more than a million dollar for each of the litigants) to reduce the bad publicity. It has promised to get rid of the teachers who had tortured children in their schools in India. We should hope these teachers are not there in ISCKON anymore.
However, these tortures took place first, in India and second, in the residential schools where chidlrens were away from their parents. In a day school in London where ISCKON is under the eyes of the British media, no such thing should we hope would take place.
In a big organization like ISCKON there would be some people who would take advantage of the organization for their evil purposes, that does not mean the whole organization is evil.
What is the alternative: to set up a Hindu schools under the Hindu business community who would use the government educational grant to import Garam Masala and Dal, mix with dirts and dusts, employ untrainned teachers from India at a starvation wages, to make a huge profit. Then they would give some of these money to London ZOO ( as Swaraj Paul did) and to the Labour/Conservative Party to buy Lordship and Knighthood.
Is this what you want???
November 24th, 2006 at 8:40 am
‘Read the declarations of ISCKON UK, they clearly claim to be a Hindu organization.’
What that is going to fool us ? I know now you’re definitely an Iskconite.Anyway, Prabhupada himself said may times that the HKS are not Hindus just like many of he’s devotees do and challange anyone here to go and ask them on the streets and see what they say.
Now if they claim they’re Hindu that’s because they get the funds and backing on any courtcases they get themselves into and even get a school but not all us Hindus are that stupid we know they agenda.
November 24th, 2006 at 8:45 am
‘Hinduism, if you ever read Rig Veda, Upanisad and Bhagwat Gita believes in one God Brahman. Brahman is one and many. That is the message of Rig Veda.’
What rubbish.So we’re monethesist are we ? or you can’t understand that when you understand Hindu dharma that monotheism and polytheism are just mental constructs because Bramhman is beyond any human definition.So let’s not bring hinduism down to being apologetic to monotheism like the HKs or the Arya Samaj have in inferiorty complex about.
November 24th, 2006 at 9:05 am
‘It follows the Vaishnav doctrine of Sri Chaitanya, who followed Ramanuj. This is not a cult but the modern version of Hinduism.’
Who the hell has said its the modern version of Hinduism ? What shaven heads and dancing around shopping malls is modern version of Hinduism ? And we should belive according to Prabhupad that women have half a brain to men or men never went to the moon and the list can go on.So how can that be modern Hinduism with such wierd views ? Gaudia Vashinavism is now a cult and all these scandals and controversies are all part of every cult that is about to fall apart which Iskcon has already started to with all its different factions fighting each other.
November 24th, 2006 at 9:08 am
‘What is the alternative: to set up a Hindu schools under the Hindu business community who would use the government educational grant to import Garam Masala and Dal, mix with dirts and dusts, employ untrainned teachers from India at a starvation wages, to make a huge profit. Then they would give some of these money to London ZOO ( as Swaraj Paul did) and to the Labour/Conservative Party to buy Lordship and Knighthood.
Is this what you want??? ‘
What then we should settle for a cult who has been involved in child abuse cases and fraud and murder and so on to run the school ? Dont make up your own alternatives to your school because we Hindus can put our own school together if it has to be without Iskcons or anyone elses help.
November 24th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Kumari said, :”monotheism and polytheism are just mental constructs”
Are you going to defy Rig Veda or Bhagwat Gita and still claim that you are a Hindu? Everywhere in the Holy books of Hindu religion ( Rig Veda, Upanisad, Bhagwat Gita) it says the God is just one, not many. I have given you verses from Bhagwat Gita and Rig Veda to prove it. What more do you want?
You should know more about your own religion. It is a shame that you have learned English, but never read your holy books. You do not need to learn Sanskrit to read our holy books; these are all available in English from Amazon.co.uk
Prabhupada always said he believes in Sanatan Dharma, that is the real name of our religion. Hinduism is the name given by the British and they define not as a religion but ways of life. That is the reason most religious men do not consider Hinduism is the right name, Sanatan Dharma is the correct name.
ISCKON is not a cult, if you say so you are just following the Anglo-Americans Christians who say Hindu is Sect, not a religion.
Sri Chaitanya, Ramanuj are not cult figures, they have advocated Hinduism during the last 1000 years. You need to know a little about the history of India and of Hinduism.
November 24th, 2006 at 9:37 am
First of let me let know all the SATSANGIs here that I do not belong to any cult, but a student of VEDANTA.
I am in India and here I have been seeing the activities of ISKCON. While for sure I do not know a lot about this, what little I know, may be I should bring to your notice also. In Bangalore, there is a scheme called AKSHAYA. By this ISKCON is serving food to poor school children and I understand that it is almost to the tune of over one hundred thousand children get their lunch in their school.
Also, to best of my knowledge, they help many who sing, make agarbathis, write books, make the CDs etc by selling that in different places.
The problem with us is that we forget that we are humanbeing with so many negativities and we need to over come that. To overcome such negativities - violence is no solution. We need to discuss, talk, etc which will help every one to understand the error in their perception and harmoniously move forward.
Youth does not mean IRRITATION; Old does not mean they know everything.
Recently in one of the seminars, I came across a nice statement made by Shri Swapandas - a young journalist from Bengal…
THERE IS A GREAT DISCONNECT BETWEEN THIRTIES AND FIFTIES..
THE GAP between 30 and 50 is a serious problem in India { and may be every where - where Indians are there}.
This needs to be addressed and for this both the youth and elderly people need to talk and try to understand what is the cause of DIVIDE and how harmony could be found out.
One can always agree to disagree and there is no violence in disagreement. Only when we insisit that the other should follow my thinking - the problem comes.
Even if every one follow their own religion or theology or cult there is no problem. the problem is there are some who want to SAVE others…
let us talk and try to understand.
let us get CLARITY OF VISION
DHIYO YO NAHA PRACHODAYAT
November 24th, 2006 at 10:02 am
“THE GAP between 30 and 50 is a serious problem in India”
The real gap is between those who read and those who do not. There are many 50’s people in India who are also ignorant about their religion and history, because they do not read.
That is the real problem with a number of people here in this website. They, although they have internet and Google.com and Amazon.co.uk but they do not care to read their holy books. They may not even know what are the holy books of Sanatan Dharma ( I am not using the word Hinduism because it may mean different things to different people).
That is the reason they justify all false ideas they receive from the Anglo-American media, mainly TV, about Hinduism.
November 24th, 2006 at 10:11 am
In an interview given for Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan’s Journal on June 28, 1976, Prabhupad, the founder of ISCKON said,
“India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. ”
“ISKCON Educational Services was established in January 1991, primarily to offer support to the educational world in its study and teaching of Hinduism. Hinduism, or more precisely Sanatan Dharma, teaches about universal principles and their corresponding values.”
“Sri Chaitanya’s teachings were …drawn from the ancient Vedic texts, which embody the timeless, non-sectarian values of Sanatan Dharma (the eternal religion).”
November 24th, 2006 at 10:24 am
” I am the source of all beings; I support them all, but I rest not in them”
Sri Krishna, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 9, verse 5
” Brahman is the supreme, the eternal” Bhagwat Gita, Ch 8, Verse 3
” In this universes there is nothing higher than I.” Sri Krishna, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 7, Verse 7
” It is Brahman, beginingless, supreme; beyond what is and beyond what is not” Bhagwat Gita, Ch 13, verse 12
” He who knows I am beginningless, unborn, the Lord of all the universes, this mortal is free from delusion and from all evils he is free” Sri Krishna, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 10, verse 3
November 24th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
‘Are you going to defy Rig Veda or Bhagwat Gita and still claim that you are a Hindu? Everywhere in the Holy books of Hindu religion ( Rig Veda, Upanisad, Bhagwat Gita) it says the God is just one, not many. I have given you verses from Bhagwat Gita and Rig Veda to prove it. What more do you want?’
Are you going to get out of your montheist limited bubble and face the tuth.? Nowhere does it say there is one GOD but only reality of the truth which is beyond numerical constructs.It shows you and your Prabhupada totally had no understanding of that reality but want to limit to a one.When Krishna says ” I am the source of all beings; I support them all, but I rest not in them” is not spoken as one god and not himself in that form but is beyond that form which speaks through him.Or you still dont understand that ? go and read and really understand the the meanings of what shastras before your start quoting like an HK fundo !
November 24th, 2006 at 4:54 pm
“That is the real problem with a number of people here in this website. They, although they have internet and Google.com and Amazon.co.uk but they do not care to read their holy books.”
Amd maybe you need to take that advice yourself and throw away those distorted Iskcon books to really understand what Dharma is really about and not some dancing and jumping up and down like a bunch of HKS!
November 24th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
“ISKCON Educational Services was established in January 1991, primarily to offer support to the educational world in its study and teaching of Hinduism. Hinduism, or more precisely Sanatan Dharma, teaches about universal principles and their corresponding values.”
“Sri Chaitanya’s teachings were …drawn from the ancient Vedic texts, which embody the timeless, non-sectarian values of Sanatan Dharma (the eternal religion).”
Yeh and whats your point ? Chaitanya is one of many gurus so that doesn’t make him an authority on all of Sanathan Dharma now does it ? or do you think he’s some sort of prophet or according to Iskcon an incarnation of Krishna which I seriously doubt like most Hindus .
November 24th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
“ISCKON is not a cult, if you say so you are just following the Anglo-Americans Christians who say Hindu is Sect, not a religion.
Sri Chaitanya, Ramanuj are not cult figures, they have advocated Hinduism during the last 1000 years. You need to know a little about the history of India and of Hinduism”
I’m not talking about Chaitanaya or Ramanuj as being cult figures because they were Hindus so try that trick and just keep that to the Iskcon cult which can clearly be seen by all its scandals that its been involved in and by it’s limited philosophy.They think Allah and Krishna are one and Jesus was a great Vaishnava.These are moronic beliefs.I know my history very well mate and we can go into that as well whenever..
November 24th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
Hinduism allows spiritual liberty and lets a true seeker approach divinity through a variety of forms or expressions - without allowing the concept of divinity to become bogged down to any One True God and Many False “gods” dogma, thus moving beyond the all-too-human one/many numerical construct into a higher spiritual realm where diversity and unity reside in harmony. As the Rig Veda says…
They hail Him as Indra, as Mitra, as Varuna, as Agni,
also as that divine and noble-winged Garutman
It is the One Existence that the wise ones speak in diverse ways,
whether as Agni, or as Yama, or as Matarisvan
http://www.hinduvoice.co.uk/Issues/11/Mystical.htm
http://www.hinduvoice.co.uk/Issues/3/God.htm
November 25th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Pagan. Quoting from the Rg Veda. Scuse me folks whilst I pick myself up off the floor.
Excellent quote Pagan. It is clear that we have some worthy minds aboard so why all the name calling and divisive positions? If we could rid of this and focus on our strengths it will truly be the Day of the Aryawarth.
Veda Shakti
November 26th, 2006 at 2:42 am
Namaskaram to all,
The SAT(?)SANG is really interesting and develops in to really meaningful and educative discussion.
Except for the tone of some of the postings, it brings out the understanding and misunderstandings that we have and help us also to THINK MORE (MANANAM) after reading (SHRUTHI) what every one else is posting.
May be we do not know that we are only born HINDUS and we need to KNOW a lot lot more to grow to BE HINDUS.
Paganji’s quote is a wonderful one.
Interestingly, we also need to tell our mind again and again and again that WHAT I KNOW NOW IS LIMITED due to the cover of IGNORANCE and ALL THESE DISCUSSIONS, DEBATES etc are part of the process of REMOVAL OF IGNORANCE, step by step. So, when some one expresses something which is not as per our understanding, neither the person who has expressed nor the one who reads need feel bad, sad or disappointed since even that is part of the process of learning.GROWING TO MATURITY.
Also, our these discussions need not be limited to these sites. We need to discuss these with others - BUT ALWAYS MAKING IT A POINT THAT THE DISCUSSIONS DO NOT GENERATE HEAT AND MUST BE LIMITED TO say ten or fifteen minutes, so that the people who hear and talk get time to reflect and will not feel that they are forced into discussions.
It will also be very interesting when we start looking at each and every actitity of the life in relation to the SANATANA DHARMA ( which includes LAW OF KARMA) and see how our decision making process and SANATANA DHARMA helps or complements that? The beauty one experieces is unimaginable. Very often people feel that ” all that is spirituality” - but in real terms there is nothing to separate our life from “spirituality”.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:38 am
I repeat what I wrote, it is not interpretation by some Hindu web, but from Rig Veda, which says clearly that there is just one God.
Rig Veda, Book X, verse 129:
” Then was not non-existent nor existent; there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
The ONE , breathless breathed by its own nature; apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
All that existed then was void and formless; by the great power of warmth( Tapasya) was born that UNIT.
Thereafter rose LOVE the primal seed and germ of SPIRIT.
Devas are later than this world’s creation.
HE the first origin of this creation; HE formed it all.
WHOSE eye controls this world.”
Bhagwat Gita says that again and again, also the Upanisad.
You may think whatever you like about Hinduism, but you are false Hindus. Perhaps you believe in Hindutva, whose proponent Savarkar was a athiest rationalist, never accepted the authority of the holy books either, and accepted beef eating. If you are these kind of Hindus, Aluwala, Gobiwala. Ladduwalas, there is no need for any debate. I know what you are. You are degenerate perverted people, you are the shame and dishonour for the Hindus worldwide. You just go on worshipping monkeys and rats or be a Naga Sanyasi.
November 26th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
The first Hindu School in the UK has permission from the Govt.
Funded by the Govt.
And we want perfection from the outset! Even before the first brick is laid.
Name calling, back stabbing … my belief is better than your belief, an holier than thou attitude prevails.
What a shame.
Sanatana Dharma - One God, many forms. One destination, many ways - Vaishnav, Shaivaite, SwamiNarayan, Jain, Hare Krishna, Buddhist, Sikh, Iskonite, Vedantist, etc - call it what you want. What difference does it make?
No Hindu School - all have lost. Hindu School (does not matter whose) and it is but a starting point.
But instead what have we here - in-fighting to the likes of my dad’s car is bigger than your dad’s!
And so it begins ….
November 26th, 2006 at 4:16 pm
“I repeat what I wrote, it is not interpretation by some Hindu web, but from Rig Veda, which says clearly that there is just one God”
Here again you make a bigger mistake because you english interperation is limited in defining something which is in Sanskrit so that get too smug about your limited straitjacketed Hinduism which suits your inferiority complex in regards to what outsiders think about Hinduism.And get thing straight my proponent is not Savarkar and even if he was he’s a million times better then your prophet Prabhpada and his merry men of childbusers which you do your puja to !
November 26th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
I did ask earlier - Let’s focus on our strengths, pairamblr wrote sensisbly “when some one expresses something which is not as per our understanding, neither the person who has expressed nor the one who reads need feel bad, sad or disappointed since even that is part of the process of learning.” A Strength
DB even wrote from Rg Veda Bk 10 v129 “..One God..” (A Strength) However, DB you are falling to name calling eg, Aluwala etc. This is very much below your calibre and fails to appreciate Pairamblr quote.
Kumari, yur focus on the pervs is not helping, folks capitalise on such ammo. Give us your points of strength re. this faith and I am sure that, Myself, Pairamblr, Proud Hindu, DB, Darmesh etc why even Pagan & Park X might stand with you.
Btm Line folks - Strengths!
Veda Shakti! - Pndt Deeno Sharma
PS - My contribution on strength - The Rg Veda. If we could all grab some sections on it then re-group the debate would be more valuable.
November 26th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Strength only comes from having faith in Dharma and having self respect but the problem with many Hindus these days that they preach Hindu Unity soon as agandas of particular groups are questioned.Thats not Hindu unity that’s pushing the problem under the carpet.There’s no need to keep on preaching to Sikhs or Bhuddists that they are part of us when they dont want to be and worse begging to organisation that clearly says its not Hindus and even is involved in child abuse scandals and many other controversies is going to far in the sake of this fake Hindu unity.Why couldn’t Hindus have a mainstream Hindu school instead of giving it over to a narrow minded sect that despises all other Hindu sects ??What hindu unity is that ? That is being totally stupid.Like I said before if people want unity then first have faith in Hindu Dharma and then maybe people might have respect for Hinduism and come in defence of it.
November 27th, 2006 at 1:44 am
Kumariji,
First of all your postings are brilliant - full of energy and enthusiasm. That is the youth of today. And that is why one is very confident that things - though some times look a little bleak ( to put it mildly) , it will come back to the equilibrium situation.
It is indeed very nice that you are defending SANATANA DHARMA so forcefully.
But kindly look at the situation. Kindly do not get irritated and upset.
If you look at the totality of situation, only a small section of Hindus know what is VEDANTA. Of this small section, still a smaller section only knows what is SANATANA DHARMA. Now the section which knows SANATANA DHARMA is trying to explain this to the remaining large section., but it needs time to understand. This is a typical class situation. Once you reach the 8th grade they introduce CALCULUS and when the teacher starts talking about differentiation and integration, for sure, initially a large number of the students sit and just listen blinking and wondering what is happening. In such a situation, the teacher need to explain the subject and guide the students and sometimes tell them to blindly follow what is being told as with time things will start getting clear etc. that is why when a subject is taught to 30 studetns in a class, all of them do not get exactly same marks for same question - they all answer in such a way that the teacher is not able to give exactly same marks.( except in may be maths).
So without getting irritated, kindly do write, explain your views, give reasons, logic etc.
That will help lot many like us - students in bettering the understanding.
November 27th, 2006 at 6:55 am
Jesus through Hindu eyes
by Shaunaka Rishi Das
Director, the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies, University of Oxford.
( Published in the web site of the National Council of Hindu Temples( UK) http://www.nchtuk.org/content.php?id=267
Hindus don’t really see Jesus as a Christian at all. When we ask how we can see spirituality in Hindus, the answer comes, by behaviour and practice. We can ask are we humble, are we tolerant and are we non-violent, and can we control our senses and our mind? Are we aware of others suffering and are we willing to give up our comfort to help them?
Looking at these criteria Jesus measures up as a Sadhu, a holy man. He preached a universal message, love of God and love of brother, which was beyond any sectarianism or selfishness. Jesus was one of those people who appealed from heart to heart, and that’s what makes him such a good Hindu Saint.
In my particular tradition, and among other Hindus, He is seen as much more, as an Avatar, specifically a Shaktavesha Avatar or an empowered incarnation. This means that God has sent Him to us for a specific mission to fulfil God’s will on earth.
If we look in the Hindu scripture, Bhagavad-gita, we hear Lord Krishna asking us to abandon all our sectarianism and just surrender to Him, in love. He vows to protect us from evil and from fear. I hear the same “forsake all and follow me” message, the same call to surrender and the same reassurance. Jesus shows this struggle of surrender during his evening in the garden of Gethsemane. He was condemned for his zeal and for his perceived threat to society, because he was misunderstood.
The Sanskrit word acharya means ‘one who teaches by example’. For Hindus, Christ is an acharya. His example is a light to any of us in this world who want to take up the serious practise of spiritual life. His message is no different from the message preached in another time and place by Lord Krishna and Lord Chaitanya.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:13 am
Deeno Sharma
You are a Sastri- which means you read the Vedas. So it is your duty as well to fight against perversions and distortions of the Sanatan Dharma( or Hinduism).
Aluwalas is a tribe in the UK, who wants to use Indianness or Hinduness to make profit. They are mainly in the Race Relations Industry, which serves no purpose for the non-whites, unless you are Afro-Carribeans. However, now they are trying to sabotage all efforts to have Hindu schools or Hindu organizations by using totally distorted ideas, which would be great fuels for the BBC, National Geographics or the British media at large to insult Hindu religion.
This Kumari is one of those Aluwalas, who are worried that ISKCON got the money, not we Aluwalas.
I am not a member of ISCKON. I do not support that they put the statue of Jaggannath as their diety, where in pure Hinduism there should not be any deity at all. Hinduism does not believe in idiol worship.
However, wherever I have been in the world, from Moscow to Melbourne, from Tokyo to Texas, I have seen ISCKON spreading the message of Sri Krishna. Despite of their defects, ISCKON is the only organization who is doing so much for the Hinduism in the world today.
November 27th, 2006 at 7:38 am
Dipakji,
It is a nice posting about Jesus. Yes, for us Hindus, there is conflict with either Jesus or even Allah or Mohammed. The problem is from the so called followers who try to impose their understanding on others. That apply as well to people who follow Hinduism and then try to impose their understanding of Hinduism on others.
If one understands SANATANA DHARMA, if one understands LAW OF KARMA then what is there more to know? what is there to be worried about? For such a person, every human being is a HINDU. Even Bin Laden is a Hindu …( Bin Laden may or will not agree to this..- that apart)
The temporal punishment for ones action one has to go thru and the effect of LAW OF KARMA also one has to go thru.
This does not mean that because Bin Laden will go thru the temporan punishment for this actions and also go thru the fructifications of the SANCHITA KARMA ( when ever it be) rest of the world can sit and watch merely as watching a cricket match. No, there is a duty element in every one. Performance of the duty also is very important part of LAW OF KARMA.
In performing the duty, there is a lot of confusion to every individual. This confusion is the result of the understanding or misunderstanding which is the result of IGNORANCE.
All these SATSANG that is going on in here, or in any other website or in temple discourses or in lectures by Sw VIVEKANANDA or various commentaries by so many many Aacharyas, Sanyasis, Gurus etc…all are to give expression to their understandings, thoughts which when we read help us to improve our own understandings. And that help us to get a little more clarity in our thinking, our vision, because the cover of IGNORANCE gets diluted SLOWLY, BUT STEADILY.
For this we all need to work in positive way, by contributing - not by fighting. When u help me to understand something more clear, understand that your or understanding becomes still more clear ( as you are clearing my doubt only because you are very clear about that)
This is what is called HARNESSING THE POSITIVE THINKING. HARNESSING THE DIVERSITY TO HARMONY.
That is growing to MATURITY
I do not know where i read that, but it was a wonderful statement from Sir Newton. “when we talk about new theories and inventions etc…we need to remember that we are talking standing on the shoulders of others..”
November 27th, 2006 at 8:55 am
Dear Pairambir:
What Ben Laden is doing is against true Islam. That is also true about what Jinnah-Surawardy-Iqbal did to us or what the Arab-Turk-Mughal invaders did to the world and what the Muslim rulers of Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Kazakstan are doing to the Hindu-Buddhists.
True Islam is not much different from True Hinduism and True Christianity.
That is the reason Ram Krishna Param Hansa, the Guru of Swami Vevakananda, converted himself to both Christianity and Islam.
Ram Krishna Param Hansa used to tell a story that Brahman is the water. Three persons, Hindu, Christian and a Muslim, are thristy. The Hindu is asking, where is Jalam; the Muslim is asking where is Pani; and the Christian is asking where is water. These three different names of the same water does not change the character of the water. Thus, according to RamKrishna ParamHansa, Iswar, Allah, Jehova are three different names of the same Brahman, the Supreme Creator of all.
” He who knows I am beginingless, unborn, the Lord of all the worlds, this mortal is free from delusion, and from all evils he is free”
” I am the One source of all; the evolution of all comes from me”
Sri Krishna, Ch 10, verses 3,8, Bhagwat Gita.
November 27th, 2006 at 9:57 am
Hinduism has just one God—- Brahman
” In this whole universe there is nothing higher than I. ”
Sri Krishna, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 7, verse 7
” I am the One source of all”, Bhagwat Gita, Ch 10, verse 8
” I am the abode of Brahman, the never-failing fountain of everlasting life”
Bhagwat Gita, Ch 14, verse 27
November 27th, 2006 at 10:14 am
He is without any form, yet dwells inside and outside all things
With form and shape,
Yet He is entirely free of error, faultless and pure.
He is far beyond anything a huma