Growing up as a Hindu girl in Slough
It is generally understood that Muslims and Sikhs dominate Slough. However, unknown to many, there is also a large Hindu community in Slough. The only difference is that Muslims and Sikhs are vocal, whilst Hindus lurk beneath the wood works. At least that is my experience as a Hindu growing up in Slough.Sent to school with no grounding in my cultural heritage meant that I had no identity, and it was the same for the -other Hindus around me. The Muslims were recognised for their veil, the Sikhs for their turbans or bangles and the Christians as white skinned. But, the Hindus had nothing to show. So along with other Hindu children, I flowed in any direction the current took me.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:38 am
I understand your feeling and I have perfect sympathy. I have a young daughter, but her mother( a White Christian) has a lot of knowledge and respect for Hinduism. Thus, our daughter knows that Ganesh will protect her, Saraswati will give her education and Krisna likes cows, so one should not eat beef. I buy the complete set of Amar Chitra Katha, available in the Amazon.com, so that she can learn about the culture and religions of India. Now you have the advantage of the Internet, so it is very easy to learn about Hinduism. The main problem is what is Hinduism and what books to read.
When I was in India before coming to Britain, I have learned very little about Hinduism even in India. Schools do not teach, a lot of people think in India Hinduism means some Guru Maharaj or some English speaking Yogis living in California, Community worships of idols organized by local thugs or worse Indian business community distributing Laddus and asking people to vote for BJP.
However, when I have started reading essays of Rabindranath Tagore, Swami Vivekananda and history books of Ramesh Chandra Majumdar, then only I can understand what is Hinduism.
I suggest you to read first the English translations of Bhagwat Gita, Upanisad and some books of Swami Vivekananda. You will get real Hinduism.
September 25th, 2006 at 7:28 am
Hi, my name is Krisna…I am a Hindu man from Indonesia…I am also living in a country where Muslims are the majority community of the country….I’ve experience my self where my Moslem friends tried so hard to convert me. They would tell lots and lots of bad things about Hindu…I remembered they frightened me by saying that all of the Hindus will burn in hell aoong with the other idol worshipper when they die, while the Moslems will be place in holy heaven as their god Allah had promised them…WHATEVER…..Well as times go by and I started to grow older, I started to find more and more intresting finding myself to be born as a Hindu…Most Hindus in my country are converted by marriage…I am 31 years old and still hanging and will keep on hanging to Hindu untill the day I die…I feel your struggle sister, don’t lose the faith now…..
September 25th, 2006 at 7:46 am
I feel that your perception of hindus as not caring about hinduism is false… I know a great deal of people who care about hinduism, whose parents are firm believers and offer powerful knowlegde… In saying this, i am not rejecting that many people are also like your parents…
One chooses what path they take…aborbed in this material world or step back and take a real look… Hinduism is a very simple religion - its about common sense… based on science… Good luck… you seem to have found your direction, and remember dont spend your life defending hinduism… it defends itself…
September 25th, 2006 at 9:22 am
Hi
I am also from Slough and do agree that Hindus form only a small minority in comparison to the other religions.
I also empathise with your views as being Hindu myself, find it difficult to integrate with others on a religious matter.
However, I believe we can make a difference by meeting other Hindus thru the mandir and other gatherings.
Hopefully this will help us all to discuss our religion and we can leran more.
Happy Navratri
Praful Vadher
September 25th, 2006 at 9:32 am
My name is Bhupendra Gandhi and I am an old age pensioner. Yes the fault lies with the parents who are either too busy or themselves ignorent of our culture and religion. But ISKCON and SHM with various temples and activities are working hard to put our culture and religion on the map.
As we the Hindus are so hard working, law abiding and highly educated, I have noticed that we do indeed get more respect and recognition from every one, especially local or indegnious people.
We should all wear OM as a symbol of Hinduism and be proud of our culture. So often attack is the best form of defence. I remember one incident when I first came to this country, a long time ago, in 1965. Where I was working, I had a good Sikh friend. He taught me how not to feel inferior.
He showed me by example. In the canteen where we had our lunch break, he deliberately used the knief and fork the other way round. Fork in the right hand and knief in the left hand.
When challenged by the Whites, he said this is the practice in most European countries and in America. They even drive on the wrong side of the road, the right side.
As no one used to travel outside UK at the time, they had to take his word and some even began to use fork and knief in the way he used to? That taught me the lession, never feel inferior, even when you may be wrong. Today I am accepted by every one as a proud Hindu, a religion and culture which is in so many ways superior than others!
Try it and good luck.
Bhupendra
September 25th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
I can empathize with you, eventhough I grew up in an orthodox Hindu family in Bangalore. I have been struggling to come up with a comprehensive presentation of Hinduism- that can be used to explain Hinduism to anybody.
Most Hindus, including our religious heads and scholars are unable to do this unfortunately. Here is an attempt:The essential features of Hinduism can be summarized as
H I N D U I S M H for Harmony
• Hinduism respects all religions and
thus aspires for mutual tolerance and
respect (This does not mean that all
religions are same- a common misconception among the Hindus).
• Hinduism does not encourage hate or distrust.
• Hinduism is intolerant of intolerance.
• It does not actively seek converts.
• It emphasizes conduct and not creed.
• It has the capacity to assimilate all the Faiths and the Philosophies.
I for Incarnation (Avataara)
God descends to Earth in any form and under any sky as may be needed to uphold DHARMA (righteousness).
no space, time, form or numerical limitation to Avataaras.
There N for Non-Violence (Ahimsa)
Hinduism recognizes that life supports life.
One should avoid causing unnecessary injury (in thoughts, words or deeds) to one-self or other fellow beings including other life forms.
Vegetarianism is glorified and perhaps a desired outcome, but never a prerequisite to be a Hindu.
D for Dharma (righteousness)
We should always protect Dharma (support what is right).
This is regarded as a necessity, because Dharma is the basis of harmonious life.
If we don’t support Dharma, it will be as if chopping the very branches of the tree (of life) we are resting on.
U for Unity of existence
Everything and all beings are inter connected or inter related and are essentially the manifestation or extension of the one Supreme Being.
The world is one big family.
I for Inherent Value
The God is Omnipresent & Omnipotent.
Both the manifest & the un-manifest are
a projection of God. They are supported, directed & controlled by God as well.
The God can be worshipped in any ‘Form’ or ‘No Form’.
Just as the Flag is a symbol of a Nation,
an Idol for the Hindu is symbolic of the God.
A Hindu worships the God enshrined in the Idol,
not the idol itself. S for Supreme Reality (Brahman)
Supreme Reality is both formless and with form, impersonal (Brahman) and personal (Atman), transcendent and immanent.
The Supreme Reality is known by many names. M for Moksha & Mantra
Dharma (Virtue), Artha (Material prosperity), Kama (pleasures) & Moksha (liberation from cycles of birth & death, harmonious union with God) are the goals of life.
The secondary objectives (Artha & Kama) are sandwiched between the primary objectives of (Dharma & Moksha).
Adherence to one’s own inherent talents (attitudes & aptitudes) in achieving these
goals is suggested.
Moksha is the ultimate goal of Hindu life. There are numerous paths and innumerable opportunities. It can happen by one way or
the other and in one life or the other.
The various paths for Moksha include: karma yoga-selfless good deeds; gnaana yoga-knowledge of Brahman; bhakti Yoga-faith or devotion; prapatti (sharNaagati) yoga-total surrender; raaja yoga-control of body, mind and intellect; mantra Yoga-union with God through repetition of a Mantra, etc.
Mantra is a sacred word or a verse used for prayer.
The most sacred Mantra of Hinduism is
AUM/OM
It represents our beginning (Spring), being (Summer), passing away (Fall) and immortality (Winter).
OM iti Brahma, OM iteedam Sarvam
(Shiksha Valli, Taittireeya Upanishad )
OM is Brahman, All this is OM
(OM is The One - OM is The Many)
(OM is the WOMb of everything)
sarvE bhavantu suKhinah sarvE santu niraamayaah.
May all be happy, may all be healthy.
sarvE bhadraaNi pashyantu ma-kashchit dhuhkha-bhaag bhavEt.
May all be prosperous, may none suffer.
Om shaantih shaantih shaantihi
Om Peace Peace Peace
Peace in all our 3 realms of existence (Surroundings, body and mind).
AEIOUY of HINDUISM
A nO bhadrAh kratavO yantu vishvatah || (R~g vEda)
May noble thoughts come to us from everywhere
E kam sat, viprAh bahudhA vadanti || (R~g vEda)
Truth is one, the learned speak of it in numerous ways
I sha avAsyam idagam sarvam
yat kinca jagatyAm jagat |
tEna tyaktEna bhunjItA
mA gridhah kasyasviddhanam ||
(Isha upanishad, part of shukla Yajur vEda)
The Lord permeates everything
Whatever in the ever-changing universe.
Relish your share with detachment
Don’t be greedy after someone else’s share.
For example, we just enjoy looking at Grand Canyon, without thinking
that we should own it! This is relishing life with detachment.
We arrive at Hopi point in Grand Canyon to see Sunset. Many like us are also
there. Some of them may have a better spot than us. We just enjoy the Sunset from
whatever spot we have. Obviously, we don’t stand there envying others, or worse
yet plot to knock them down to grab that spot!
This is relishing our share in life without greed or envy.
O m iti brahma |
Om itIdagam sarvam ||
(taittirIya upanishad, part of kR~SHNa YajurvEda)
Om is God
Om is everything.
Om is the wOmb of everything!
Om represents our birth (spring), growth (summer), fading away (autumn/fall),
and immortality (silence of Winter)
U ddarEt Atmana AtmAnam
AtmAnam avasAdayEt |
Atma Eva hi AtmanO bandhuh
Atma Eva ripuh Atmanah ||
(bhagavadgItA)
Elevate your self by your own effort
Never put your self down.
(Because) You are your best friend
(And) You are your worst enemy.
A man can stand a lot as long as he can stand himself.
Self-help is the best help. Be your friend first!
The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself!
Y opAm Ayatanam vEda |
AyatanavAn bhavati ||
(aruNa prashna, Krishna YajurvEda AraNyaka)
One who knows the sustaining power of the Lord
Indeed becomes sustained.
Feel free to discuss: (Tatachar@aol.com)
Mason, Ohio
September 25th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
well said, Miss Nidhi
yes we need some more young people like you.
we should know our culture, and should proud of .
gucci
September 25th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
It is well known that the word HINDU is derived from the word used by the outsiders in describing the people who inhabited the Indus valley. Long before the word was invented the principles of our culture were set out in Sanathana Dharma. It acknowledged various forms of faiths and practices aimed at reallising the single goal of truth. Hindu culture differs from those of other religious groups by being focussed on truth rather than the set parameters of a religion.
Theology expects one to ask questions and seek answers but religion often forbids it. Hindu philosophy is primarily aimed at each individual to seek answers to questions not readily answerable without first making huge assumptions. No doubt, volumes have been written on this matter. Most of the worldly problems today are due to confusion between ‘THE RELIGION’ and ‘THE PHILOSOPHY’ it embraces. It is like an interminable wrangle about the bottle, the lable and the price of a bottle of wine without anyone having tasted the contents. The taste is naturally is an experience specific to the individual and is not something that can be argued about.
Far more importance is given to the external manifestation of a religion and sadly religion is marketed by designer bottles with lables at a price. Seldom do we hear about the content of a religion. All religions assert peace as their goal and yet we are witnessing atrocities of unimaginable proportions carried out in the name of religion.
Hinduism for me is a picture without boundaries and immensely satisfying in my quest. When one sets aside one’s ego, the bottle, the lable and the price are of no significance. My conduct in the society towards all god’s creation is guided by the philosiphy I learnt from Hinduism. I have never felt the need to change my faith nor have ever denigrated other faiths.
Nidhi Bhatia will no doubt derive a great strength in her quest in Hinduism. I wish her well.
September 25th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
I’m glad your views on our heritage have changed as time has passed.i understand your viewpoint and the possible difficulties one may face in the situations you were presented with. i have utmost respect for other religions as it was our own scriptures that state “sarva dharma swikar” - acceptance of all religions. if other faiths do not carry this in their creeds then that is their choice, but i will remain steadfast in my beliefs. be they hindu,muslim,sikh or christian, the god that resides within them also resides within my heart and therefore i shall respect them as my divine brother or sister - this is the message of our culture.
like you said earlier, hindus do not seem to have that social identity that muslims and sikhs seem to have created. i guess that is why so many poeple think today that religion is in decline. the mere fact that we need to create this religious identity and carry out events that get us recognised shows we are in a time when religion is in decay. blind faith seems to be prevailant.
However, when thinking about the situation today, i always find solace in reading the geeta.for me, it is the most modern book mankind can read. the philosophies within it are so precious. but one thing i would like to highlight is that nowhere in the geeta does it state that you must be hindu to read or find advice from the geeta. nowhere in the geeta does it state what you must and must not do. this is the beauty of the geeta and this is the beauty of our vedic culture.
September 25th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
Great article. There is a huge problem with the education of young Hindus. I am fortunate that my mother was able to answer all my questions when I was younger, and that I was blessed with the spark to learn more about my faith. However blaming parents is not sufficient. We all have an intellect that enable us to make our own enquiries, and educate ourselves especially in this day and age. Hinduism is a way of life that unlike other religions is not dependant on people believing in it in order for it to survive, as it is the Truth, and Truth always prevails. However, only by living a life according to Dharma can we attain true bliss!
September 25th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
Well Done girl! I am exactly like you, i realised my faith and proudly show it, despite what my parents say and others.
September 25th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
Its a shame that you never recieved support from a peer group which shared the same values or respect for each other at that age.
However, you yourself rose above and taught yourself about identity and meaning of Hinduism, your religion as you see it.
Its a shame parents discourage their children as you have explained, however, I am very surprised you see it like so everywhere as this really is not the case. OK, education and integration is important and most encouraged but you will see Hindus young and old realise the importance of understanding and defending their roots and culture, the Hindu religion for what it stands for in the face of those ignorant and agenda ridden people of an extreme Sikh angle or a Militant Muslim angle.
These people need to be told in no uncertain manner about whats right and truthful and to refrain from false and improper spreading of slander against the Hindu religion or Mother India related topic matters.
I grew up with a mixed society, living in Ealing and then Hounslow I spent alot of time and growing up with Asians from all 3 major populous religions. I have found that if you have an ounce of self respect and ability to defend oneself and background then you will draw praise and respect from others.
The author should realise and understand that Hindu youth are powerful, eloquent and well placed to discuss and argue their case. However, there is a sizeable number of Hindus out there that do desperately need reminding and educating of who they are and what sort of tradition they come from and what their identity is. Be British and be Indian or Hindu, together! Our relationship with the Divine is spiritual at core, private and intense. We see no reason to shout and spread and declare there is no other but this one Path, we fully understand all paths lead to the One, this is so basic a concept but others dont see it.
Venture the Internet, discuss and put your points forward, fight your corner, we have sources and facts, reasoning and insight into anything Hindu.
For those that dont know then please enlighten yourselves with visiting and studying this website -
http://www.hinduwisdom.info
September 25th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
“you seem to have found your direction, and remember dont spend your life defending hinduism… it defends itself… ”
Evidently this person hasn’t heard of the famous saying:
“DHARMO RAKSHATI RAKSHITAH”
“Dharma protects those who protect Dharma”
This attitude of not caring about defending dharma is the reason that others were able to conquer Hindus along with other reasons.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:19 pm
as it was our own scriptures that state “sarva dharma swikar”
Well religion doesn’t necessarily mean dharma, if some guy sets up some cult around suicide, doesn’t mean its dharma is on par with our dharma.
September 26th, 2006 at 3:32 am
very interesting article and as much interesting comments and discussions. I think your Hindu Voice stands apart from other such magazines that i have started copying it and sending to my friends who had not seen this and may be soon they too might become habituated to read Hindu Voice.
Harish Duggiralaji’s comments are a bit tough one feel.
” Dharma protects those who protects Dharma” is a very meaningful statment. Can Dharma be protected by Adharma?
The beauty of Hinduism is that - as Jay has said - it need not be defended. It is simple commonsense.
If youngesters at the age group of 12-16 are able to listen to some of the Upanishads or Gita etc from ‘ TEACHING SWAMIJI’S
then their analytical thinking develops and this is very helpful for children falling in the average group. That is why we need to
encourage our youngesters to hear these TEACHING SWAMIJIs.
Once they hear them most likely they will fall for after a few sessions ( a few sessions may be about 10 sittings) are needed as the subject cannot be introduced directly.
Imagine in Chandogya Upanishad, Swetaketu who is a first class first comes back to his home with - may be all arrogance that he knew everything - and noticing this nature, his father who himself is a great teacher asks him -” Swetaketu…do you have the knowledge of that one by knowing which one knows everything? ”
Swetaketu taken aback first ventured to reply that there may not be such a thing else his teacher would have taught him that too as he was the topper.
Is there such a thing?
Recently some one told me when we were discussing the problems caused by Pope Benedicts quotation in his speech.
The whole world including New york times missed the importance of the speech which comes after the first two paras. Pope is speaking about the Greek Philosophy etc…
And I am told that the Greek Philosophy is quite similar to the Hindu philosophy. I dont know and I would like to know if there are people who can comment or guide articles which indicate that.
Sorry for writing a bit too long . I must cut it short and I will try.
namaskaram
September 26th, 2006 at 9:32 am
To attack perents or anybody is not good. There are things in life one has to learn for themselves and IN TIME all falls in place. One is not born with the knowledge of the prfession one is in ,but learns it. Hinduism is a way of life ,not a show piece. You are the religion ,neither you have to have a bangle or anthying to show ,nor to feel small next to anyone.
Good managent comes from delegation. Hinduism gives chance to all ,is not selfish and shows gandeur.
The succeess of any good company is workforce and delegation, SO Hindu principles in action …….
There are lots of places where religion is taught on Sundays ,and in slough there is a Sai centre where principles of all religions are taught to children without paying heed to colour cast or creed.Perhaps you should pay a visit to learn for yourself…..
Our muslim brothers have tried to convert me ,but my stance is i was born in particular place and to particular parents for a reason NOT by default and definitely not for you to convert me so you can go to so called HEAVEN. ‘Conversion is never natural’
Anyway if your parents do not know enough about their own religion then you can do a search for yourself and educate them ,and thus you will be doing your duty.
September 26th, 2006 at 11:53 am
For Pairambir I say that the people who are criticizing Pope Benedict XVI have not read his complete lecture at all.
The real message of the lecture given by Pope Benedict XVI in his alma mater University of Regensburg is that the origin of Christian theology is derived from the Greek-Roman secular philosophy of reason. The word Theology itself is derived from the Greek word of Theo-logos or the reasoning about religion. Reason not blind faith must the foundation of religion.
Hinduism supports that concept, as Rig Veda has provoked the Hindus about the nature of the God when it says, “ Only that God knows whence comes this universe, and whether it was made or uncreated; he only knows, or perhaps he knows not” (Rig Veda, X 129). The purpose is not to deny the God but to initiate a debate to enlighten our mind as the Gayatri prayer in the Vedas says, “ Let our meditation be on the glorious light of Savitri; may this light illuminate our minds.”
The Koran also said, “ God is the light of the heavens and earth….God guides to his light whom he will,” (Al-Nur, 24:35).
That light is the reason, as explained in Bhagwat Gita, “ Brahman is the vision, the end of vision, to be reached by vision..” (Chapter 13, verse 17)
September 26th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Ms.Nidhi,
You may visit this website - http://www.hinduwisdom.info/index_new.htm
You may have already known about it …it has a fantastic storehouse of info on our great religion.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
” Dharma protects those who protects Dharma” is a very meaningful statment. Can Dharma be protected by Adharma?
What does that have anything to do with anything I said, defending something doesn’t mean you are using Adharma.
“The beauty of Hinduism is that - as Jay has said - it need not be defended. It is simple commonsense. ”
If no one defended Hinduism it would be confined to musuems like all the other ancient religions, the reason Hindus are there today is because some Hindus like Shivaji and others decided to defend our religion and culture instead of just sitting there and watching passively when we were under the Muslims and British.
You have to be ready to defend your religion both physically and intellectually, otherwise it’s no use how many bhajans you do or how many prayers you do.
September 26th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
“Well religion doesn’t necessarily mean dharma, if some guy sets up some cult around suicide, doesn’t mean its dharma is on par with our dharma. ”
when saying “sarva dharma swikar” i mean exactly that. be it a cult based on whatever you have stated, it should still be accepted. we have no business telling people what is right and wrong for that is a journey they must take themselves. as hindus, we are not here to preach, judge or lecture. like i said, i respect the god that sits within them, doesnt matter what the person who owns this heart may be following. it may not be “on par” with our dharma” but who are we to judge. its obvious it’s wrong, only god can decide.
i dont believe in conflict, especially creating it. be they a cult follower or an atheist, i love others for their humanity and the fact god resides within them.
September 27th, 2006 at 12:11 am
“when saying “sarva dharma swikar” i mean exactly that. be it a cult based on whatever you have stated, it should still be accepted. we have no business telling people what is right and wrong for that is a journey they must take themselves. as hindus, we are not here to preach, judge or lecture.”
Rubbish, there is clear distinction between dharma and adharma, those who try to appear broadminded but preach such nonsense are the reason Hindus are so confused, there is clear distinction between dharma and adharma which is why the Kurukshetra war was fought. You may or may not believe anything but your beliefs are not Hindu beliefs in general and have no justification in any of the major scriptures of Hindus.
September 27th, 2006 at 4:24 pm
My experience is similar to that decribed by Nidhi. I admire her strenght.
Pairamblr:
‘If youngesters at the age group of 12-16 are able to listen to some of the Upanishads or Gita etc from ‘ TEACHING SWAMIJI’S
then their analytical thinking develops and this is very helpful for children falling in the average group. That is why we need to
encourage our youngesters to hear these TEACHING SWAMIJIs.
Once they hear them most likely they will fall for after a few sessions ( a few sessions may be about 10 sittings) are needed as the subject cannot be introduced directly.’
I am not sure how ‘youngesters’ are suppose to learn by listening to these sawmi’s, when these so called sawmi’s are not able to educate the parents.
In my experience what you are suggesting is frustating and disencouraging excercise.
Jay: ‘it need not be defended. It is simple commonsense.’
Is this the messege of Gita?? I think not. If anything Krishna him self uses all kinds of ways to defend Dharma. He also Arjun to do the same.
It is plain to see what we are lacking is edcation amoung all Hindu’s across the world.
September 27th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
Im a hindu aged 23 and have experienced the same things thankfully due to Gods grace i was sent to the weekly swaminarayan temple in my area and then took on reading on David Frawley and others which has increased my knowledge.
I think the current situation is quite bad but there are positives i.e at my temple there are litreally hundredes of youths who come every week and are well versed in scriptures and there religion. One needs to read as eduaction is the key.
Jai Swaminarayan
September 28th, 2006 at 6:29 am
This is an excellent article. A lot of young people are going through this, and more positively, asserting themselves in the right light- not promising to wage war against the indigenous people or blowing themselves up as in some other religions
Its also heartening to see the reply posted by Krisna, the guy from Hindu minority Indonesia- the way Hindus (& other minorites) are treated in some countries. Its a vicious, unescapable circle to live in such countries unfortunately.
The one thing that should be on the weebsite is “email this article to a friend”, I would have certainly emailed it to several people I know.
Now I’ll just have to post a link!
September 28th, 2006 at 7:19 am
Following is a posting from ” Advaitins” yahoo group. I think this will answere a lot of statments made by several of our friends in here.
The KNOWLEDGE is the ultimate and once we have that KNOWLEDGE, there is no fear or any sort of other types of complexes - feelings of guilt or hurt or ommissions or commissions.
Thanks to the electronic media in the last 10 years, the VEDANTA has spread to many many more and fortunately our younger generation being exposed to this media ( unlike the parents who had to spend time reading and then needing to go to a guru to clarify the doubts - which was all difficult since they had less time due to their being busy with earning a living for them, their children, family and for friends etc..) Now you are in your living room and channels like AASTHA, SANSKAR, SONY, JAGRAN, SAB etc telecast good discourses from very learned TEACHING SWAMIJIs and SWAMINIs .
+++++++++++++++++++++
A touring Educational Officer once met His Holiness and said,
“I have occasions of being in constant touch with young boys, mostly Brahmanas, studying in schools which I have to inspect. I have found that even the boys who perform their sandhya do so more as a form than as real worship. I shall be very grateful if Your Holiness would give me some valuable hints which I could convey to them”
I am very glad to see that you are not content with mere official routine of inspection but desire to utilise the occasion for the betterment of the boys. It will be well if all educationists, inspecting officers or teachers, realise that they have been entrusted with the very grave responsibility of training up young men in the most impressionable period of their lives. In my opinion they are really to blame if they confine their attention only to the prescribed text books and neglect the spiritual side of the young generation.
I always keep that end before me and I don’t miss any opportunity of talking to the boys and giving them some useful advice. It is mainly with a view to do that work better that i request Your Holiness to give some practical suggestions.
Even if the boys to whom you propose to convey such suggestions may not benefit by them, you will certainly be benefited.
Certainly.
You may therefore, for the present, ignore the boys and ask such questions the answers to which are likely to be useful to you.
The first question which suggests itself to me is with reference to the sandhya worship. What is the deity or upasya devata in the sandhya Worship?
Before we consider that, please tell me what you understand ordinarily by the sandhya worship?
By sandhya worship we mean the worship of the rising Sun, the setting Sun or Sun in the mid heavens.
Quite so. Comprehensively speaking, you mean worship of the Sun?
Yes.
You tell me that sandhya is the worship of the Sun and yet you ask me what is worshipped in the sandhya. Don’t you think it is an unnecessary question?
Put so, it may seem an unnecessary question, but my real question is, what is the Sun that is worshipped?
What do you understand ordinarily by the Sun?
We mean the bright celestial orb in the sky.
Then it is that bright celestial orb that is worshipped.
But that orb is, according to science, mere inert matter in a state of high combustion and is certainly not worthy of being worshipped by intelligent beings like ourselves. It can neither hear our prayers nor respond to them. I cannot believe that our ancestors were so ignorant as to address their prayers to a mere burning mass of matter
I quite agree with you. They could never have been so foolish.
What then did they see in the Sun to justify their prayers being addressed to it?
You said just now that addressing of prayers to inert matter cannot be justified by reason.
Yes.
What then must be the nature of the entity to which a prayer is addressed?
The primary condition is that it must not be mere inert matter, but must be endowed with intelligence.
And the second condition?
That it must be able to hear our prayers and be powerful enough to answer them.
Quite so. If our ancients were not fools and yet addressed their prayers to the Sun, their conception of the Sun must have been quite different from that of mere inert matter, in a state of high combustion.
Yes, they must have also postulated of it intelligence, the capacity to hear us and the ability to help us.
The ‘us’ including not only all those who are now living to raise their hands in prayer to the Sun, but also the generations, past and future, infinite in number though they may be?
Of course.
The entity that is worshipped as the Sun is therefore one whose intelligence or ability knows no limitation of space or time.
It must be so.
You have now got your answer to the question as to who is worshipped in the sandhya? It is an intelligent Being, omniscient and omnipotent in the matter of hearing and responding to its votaries.
Your Holiness then means that it is a deva who has his habitation in the solar orb?
Quite so. He has not only his habitation there, but the solar orb itself is his physical body.
Your Holiness means that the deva enlivens the solar orb, just as we do our physical bodies?
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Just so.
If then he is embodied just like us, how does he happen to have such high intelligence or power as to merit our obeisance?
He attained that status by virtue of the appropriate karma and upasana done by him in a previous life.
Does Your Holiness mean that he was at one time just like ourselves and that he attained that status by his endeavour?
Yes.
Then he is no more than a jiva, which I aIso am. Why should a jiva make prostration before another Jiva, howsoever superior?
Why should your son or pupil respect you and why should you show respect to your superior officers? Are not both of you jivas?
No doubt we are. But we respect our superiors as it is in their power to help us or injure us, if they so desire.
That is a very low kind of respect. Anyhow, taking even that kind of respect, we must respect Surya devata if it is in his power to help us or injure us, if he so desires.
Of course.
Being a jiva as much as your superior officers, he will help you if you appeal to him for help or injure you if you ignore or despise him. In your own interest then, you are bound to worship him and secure his goodwill.
But 1 need not court the favour nor fear the displeasure of my superior officer, if I carry out the duties of my office faithfully.
Quite so.
If I preserve that attitude, there is no reason why I should propitiate my superior officer
Certainly not.
Similarly, if l carry out strictly the duties enjoined on me by the
sastras, I need not propitiate any other jiva, be he the highest devil.
Quite so.
Then, should I not give up the worship of Surya devata?
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> Certainly you may, unless of course such a worship is part of the duties enjoined on you by the Sastras.
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> The Sandhya Worship 93
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> How can that be?
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> It is true that an honest and strict officer in performing the duties of his office need not mind the pleasure or the displeasure of his immediate superior. But the mere fact that he thinks it necessary or obligatory to perform those duties properly, shows that he has as the ultimate end the pleasure, or avoidance of the displeasure of a still higher officer who is superior to him as well as to his immediate superior. Even if he has no personal acquaintance with that higher officer, he always has in the background of his mind an undefined power, call it the King or the Government, when he performs the duties of his office. And that power has the ability to benefit him by a recognition of his services or to punish him by taking note of his delinquencies. Further, that power rules both him and his immediate superior officer. If therefore that power requires him to behave in a particular manner towards his superior officer, he cannot afford to disobey that injunction, for if he disobeys, not only does he incur the displeasure of that officer but also of the higher power.
That is so.
Similarly, if a power which rules both you as well as Surya devata requires you to conduct yourself in a particular manner towards that deva, you cannot afford to neglect that injunction, but must conform to it or take the risk of incurring the displeasure of that deva as also of the higher power.
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It is no doubt so. But in that case, in prostrating myself before Surya devata, I shall be really worshipping the higher power even when my worship may seem addressed to the Surya.
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What of that?
If I am able to conceive of such a higher power who rules even the Surya, that power is really the worshipped entity although to all appearances the worship is addressed to the Surya only.
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Quite so.
But Your Holiness said that it, was Surya devata who was worshipped?
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Yes. It is correct so far as persons who are not able to conceive of a higher power are concerned. To those however who can conceive of that power, He is the real upasya. That power is called Hiranyagarbha. He enlivens and ensouls not only the Surya, but all devils. He enlivens and inhabits not only the solar orb but all things. He is the cosmic personality who is the soul of all things.
I suppose just as we have the sense of I ‘in our physical bodies, so does that cosmic personality has the sense of “I” in the entire cosmos.
He has.
If so, the difference between Him and me lies not in the presence or the absence of the sense of ‘I’ but only in the degree, the range or the magnitude of that sense. Mine is restricted, His is extended.
It is so.
if it is the sense of “I” that is responsible for the concept of a Jiva, he must be as much a jiva as myself
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Quite so. In fact He is called the First Born.
Then, even if this higher power happens to belong to the category of Jivas, just like myself, the same objection which I mentioned against the worship of Surya devata holds good in his case also.
What then would you like to worship?
A transcendent power which is not a jiva.
Have it then that it is such a transcendent power that is worshipped in the sandhya. We give Him the name of lswara, the Lord, or the antaryami, the inner ruler.
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But I have heard it mentioned that the terms Lord’ and Ruler’ are only relative terms which are used in regard to Him when we want to describe Him in relation to the universe, which is ‘lorded over ‘or ‘ruled’ by Him.
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Yes, it is so.
It cannot be that we can have no conception of him apart from his relationship of some sort to the universe. His relationship to the universe can at best be only an extraneous circumstance. In His essence, He must have an independent existence quite unrelated to anything else.
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You are right. We call that unrelated essential existence Brahman.
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If it is so, that must be the real object of worship rather than the relative aspect called lshwara.
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> It is even as you say. It is really the unqualified Brahman that is worshipped in the sandhya.
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> I cannot really understand Your Holiness. You first said that it was the solar orb that was the objector worship, but when I pointed out that it was only inert matter, you said that it was Surya devata that was the object of worship; when again I pointed out that he was only a limited jiva like myself, you said it was Hiranyagarbha, the cosmic soul, that was the object of worship: when once again I pointed out that he was after all a jiva, however cosmic his sense of ‘I’ may be, you said that lswara the Lord and Ruler of the universe was really the object of worship; and lastly when I said that even he is but a relative aspect of Brahman, you said that the object of worship was Brahman itself
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> But I fail to see how all these statements can be reconciled.
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> The object in a particular worship can be only one. How can it be the solar orb or the deva enlivening it or Hiranyagarbha or Iswara or Brahman at the same time?
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> I never said that it was the solar orb or the devil and so on.
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> Does Your Holiness mean to say then that the object of worship is the solar orb and the devil and Hiranyagarbha and Iswara and Brahman all put together?
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> Nor did I say anything of that sort.
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> How then am I to understand Your Holiness’ statements?
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> When did I tell you that the upasya was Surya?
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> When I mentioned that the physical mass of burning matter cannot be the object of worship.
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> Before you mentioned it, I said that it was even that mass that was the upasya.
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> Yes.
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> I never mentioned that it was the solar body or the deva as an alternative. To one who cannot conceive of an enlivening soul, the upasya is the physical mass; to one, however, who declines to accept inert matter as an object of worship, I said the upasya was Surya devata. The upasya is ever one, but its exact nature varies with the competence of the worshipping aspirant. The upasya gets further refined when even the concept of a devil does not satisfy the enquiring devotee. We say then that it is Hiranyagarbha. When even such a concept seems meagre or unsatisfactory, we tell the devotee that he is really worshipping the Supreme Lord himself When he begins to feel that even the Lord-ness is a limitation of His essential nature, we tell him that it is the infinite Brahman itself that is really worshipped. Where is the difficulty?
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> Does Your Holiness then mean that it is not possible to definitely say what the object of worship in the sandhya is except with reference to the mental equipment or intellectual advancement of the worshipper?
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> How can there be an object of worship if we ignore the worshipper? The nature of the worshipped necessarily depends upon the nature of the worshipper.
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> How?
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> Take me for example. All of you show me respect. But the object of respect, though it is, roughly speaking, myself, does differ with each one of you. Ordinary people respect me and like to see me surrounded by glittering paraphernalia; their attention and respect are claimed by those articles rather than by my personality. Such people will show the same respect to others who have similar paraphernalia. Their homage is not therefore really paid to me but only to the paraphernalia. Some others respect me for the position that I hold or for the Asrama in which I am. Such people will equally respect others who are or may come to be in such a position or in such an Asrama, their homage is therefore not paid to me but to my position or to the Asrama. And some others may not care what position I hold or in what Asrama I am, but give me homage wherever I go and however I may be; their object of respect is my physical body. A few others will not mind if my body is dark or ugly or even diseased, but will nevertheless give me homage if by purity of mind and character or by the power of my intellect and learning or by any spiritual merit that I may possess I command their respect. Very few indeed will respect me for the spark of divine intelligence which inheres in me, as it does in all of you.
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> Of course it is not possible to say that all the devotees that approach Your Holiness are of the same mental equipment.
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> Quite so. But, ordinarily all these people, whether they really tender homage to the paraphernalia or to my status and Asrama or to my body or to my mind or to my intellect or to the divine spark in me, prostrate before me to show their respect. Can you tell me, apart from any reference to the several devotees, to whom or to what they prostrate?
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> It is no doubt very difficult to answer
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> Similarly, with every kind of worship. Externally viewed, there will be no appreciable difference between the one who respects me for the paraphernalia and another who respects me for the divine spark in me. Externally viewed, there will similarly be no appreciable difference between the devotee who in his blind faith is content to address his prayers to the luminous Sun and another who turns to it as a visible symbol of the infinite Brahman. The question as to what is the upasya in the sandhya worship can therefore be answered only in this way.
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> I now understand how in the simple worship of the Sun all possible stages in spiritual perception have been provided for
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> It is not only this, for you will find if you consider the matter still further, that all the three ways known as karma, bhakti and Gyana have been given places in the daily worship, but that is a different matter. Simple as the sandhya worship seems to be, it is sufficient to help us on to the highest stages. It is as useful to the highest aspirant as it is to the beginner. It is a folly, therefore, to belittle its value or to neglect it in practice.
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So one need to GROW UP with LEARNING….
September 28th, 2006 at 11:00 am
It is good that these different types of media are being used by Hindu’s and they are quite popluar, however for the youth they need to see something more dynamic. As is quite eviedent from this touching artical.
Majority of Hindu’s are too busy watching the latest soap or bolloywood film. To care for these channels that you have mentioned. Some Hindus that watch these channels are what I call ‘bollywood hindu’, I started as one, but they need to REALLY understand Hindu Dharma as apposed to watching a programme for 3 hrs and then lighting up a joint or falling prey to a varity of missions.
Hindus need to edcated in a more contempoary way, Swami’s and Swamini’s need to read and educate themselves no all subjects. Their approach is partly responsible for the current sittuation.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
“Hindu” - i can bet on - has not spared any time to hear any one of them. Else he would not have made such a sweeping remark - that they need to read all subjects.
Any one who has heard Guru Maa, Sw Dayananda Saraswatiji, Sw Paramarthanandaji, Sw Sukhbodhanandaji, Shri Parthasarathyji, …my knowledge is limited because I do not know all the names.
But I dont blame Shri “Hindu”ji since a few years back I too used to think that they ( Swamijis and Swaminis) might know only Ramayan and Bhagavat etc… But let me state here that many many of these Teaching Swamijis or Swaminis are very highly educated and then they took up on them this …they became Sanyasis ( Sanyasa actually means leaving every thing in quest of knowledge ) and in that process they teach students who are interested.
Spare a few minutes for a few days and hear them and then you might be able to come out of the thinking that you are in now.
By the way, even hindu dharma is a very interesting subject and most likely it could be most misunderstood subject too.
I am just pasting here part of a posting in the Advaitins - yahoo group- merely for people who are interested - to get an idea how deep the subject Hinduism can take us to.
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That adhikaritvam or competence is necessary for jnana
is wellknown and had been elaborated by me in a prior
post. Perhaps it is worth reiterating. It may even be
worth expanding on by learned members, as more than
tat tvam asi it is these qualifications that really
need a lifetime or perhaps even several lifetimes of
effort.
The main requisite (besides viveka and vairagya) which
are requirements for a “uttama adhikari” are the
shamaadi shatsampat or sixfold virtue - Shama, Dama,
Uparati, Titiksha, Shraddha and Samadhana.
Selfknowledge is a “mirage” without a fairly intense
degree of acquisition of these qualities.
Shama is equanimity of mind or mind control. This is
the first and at the same time quite easily the most
difficult to attain. It demands intense selfeffort and
selfobservation.
We only have to examine ourselves honestly for an hour
or so to see how much shama we have or more
appropritaly how much we lack?
The Kathopanishad draws the famous and beautiful
analogy of the charioteer being the intellect, the
reins being the mind and the horses being the sense
orgnas. Without a tught hold on the reins and without
the horses being under control and used to the
intellects benefit, the intellect can do nothing
worthwhile.
Dama is sense-control - not allowing the organs of
perception and our organs of action to run riot. The
Vivekachudamani has the beautiful examples of how just
by one sense organ running riot different animals like
the fish, the elephant, etc bring about their own
death, what to speak of a human whose ruin is certain
by not adequately retaining all the sense organs.
Again selfeffort is the key here. In his short but
beautiful treatise Sadhana panchakam Shankara begins
with “Treat hunger like a disease and do not relish
your food” How many of us truly before each and every
meal on a consistent basis bring this attitude to the
food and eat simply as a medicine to appease our
hunger?? Same with every other senseorgan besides the
tongue.
Uparati comes next. It is a sense of cheerful
acceptance of our lot in life - a noncomplaining
attitude. With adequate dama, whatever enjoyments come
unasked to us we should be satisified with, and
grateful to Ishwara.
Upariti when it matures has to result in sannyasa. The
current posts of the Sage of Kanchi again reiterate
the importance of sannyasa in gaining selfknowledge.
Most ordinary mortals would do well to refrain from
hoping for atmabodha without an eventual graduation in
their ashrama from grhasta or vanaprastha to sannyasa.
Titiksha is power of endurance, an ability to
patiently bear the pairs of opposites such as heat and
cold, pleasure and pain and the rest. How much are we
able to fast, how much able -physical or mental - are
we able to take with a pleasant attitude? During a
fast, when we detect hunger pangs, am I able to say i
am the consciousness that is witnessing this hunger
sensation in this body or do we simply give in and say
“I am hungry” and so on for other afflictions as well.
In a recent post, Smt. Dhyanasaraswati had brought out
this beautiful name of Lorf Durga - brahmacharini -
Goddess of austerity - no selfdevelopment can proceed
from a lack of bhramacharyam and tapas.
Bhagwan Shankara starts the atma bodha with the verse
- “this teaching is meant only for those who have
developed austerity”.
In the words of Bhagwan Krishna,
The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of
the Supreme Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master,
and superiors like the father and mother. Cleanliness,
simplicity, cellibacy and nonviolence are also
austerities of the body.
Brahmacharyam in addition to sexual celibacy also
includes avoidance of revelry in other sense
pleasures.
Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully
and beneficially and in avoiding speech that offends.
One should also recite the Vedas regularly.
This perhaps may be our greatest barrier- having
control of our tongue. Swami-ji used to comment that
in reality austerity of speech is part of austerity of
the body alone, but this is this one austerity that is
so profoundly lacking yet so important that Bhagwan
mentions it separately and again re-repeats it as
maunam in the next sloka!!
And serenity, silence (control of the mind with regard
to speech),self-control and purity of thought are the
austerities of the mind.
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one may find a lot of points debatable - but Hinduism would not like any one to believe or accept or reject anything without some reason. But with a request that if you are not satisfied with the reason, do go further and further…sure you will come across the explanation..
Ultimately Hinduism is all about KNOWING the SELF. It is such a simple subject that any one can make mistake and go on making mistake. But once a person studies this process of enquiry with the help of a teacher, then he will start seeing and enjoying the beauty.
For this one need to get ready - like - if u need to go for Graduation, u need to finish your studies up to 12th and for PG, you need to finish graduation etc..
Live the life, and enjoy the life.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
Pardon me for writing again…so fast…
But I just came across this and could not resist my temptation to bring to the notice of all nice people in here. This also gives enough food for thought…i think
++++++++++++++ please read on the posting ++++++++++++
Hindu News Headlines for September 27, 2006
Protect Hindu dharma from predators: Swami Dayanand Saraswati
2006-09-27 Published by Hindunet Gathered by Internet Desk - Hindunet
Reminding the gathering of their dharma as Hindus, chief guest Swami Dayanand Saraswati, renowned teacher of Vedanta and head of the Arsha Vidya Gurukul, said the situation in India with regard to preserving Hindu dharma was encouraging as well as discouraging. “The Indian economy is encouraging due to the efforts of the previous governments. The discouraging thing is that we don’t have well wishers of Hindu dharma in government. Hindu dharma has survived on its own steam for many centuries without any support. Now-a-days organized institutions with governmental support are working against Hindu dharma.”
The Swami informed the Indian American Hindus of the machinations of the people in power in India to “secularize” the holy city of Tirupati. Perched atop seven hills, the world famous Tirupati Balaji temple in Andhra Pradesh attracts over 100,000 devotees every day. The Swami said there was a move to claim five of the seven hills as government property and turn them into a tourist destination. The move, he said, was vehemently opposed by Hindu religious leaders within the country and concerned Hindus around the world through the “Tirupati Declaration”, forcing the government to back down on its nefarious plans.
Thus the Swami compared Hindu dharma to a herbivore like the deer which not only has to feed itself but also survive from carnivorous predators. “Hindus in India are like that,” he said. “Hindus not only have to live the Hindu life, but they have to protect it from predators.”
The Swami further exhorted Hindus to realize that their self worth is the worth of their culture. “The more you value the riches of your culture, the more you value yourself. It is your dharma to live your dharma, discover its profundity and protect it.”
September 28th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
Pairamblr - G…I am by no way meaning to attack your personal belief.
My problem is that I have been and am still seeing Hindu’s without a global vision (with exceptions). The guru’s mentioned by your self I am not aware of.
One of the core issue’s concerning Hindu socitey, are our youth because they are our future. I see alot being put into sawmi’s and guru’s and see them making every body into gopis.
The Hindu’s I have met that TRULEY feel for Dharma tend to be completely away from these guru’s. In all the years of these guru’s preaching they have not managed to awaken a the messege of the Gita. For me they need to go back and read the Gita to understand it’s messege.
Live Long And Prosper…
September 29th, 2006 at 8:15 am
To “Hindu”ji,
May be sir, you do not see the youngesters in action - i do not know why, may be because you seem to be not using the TV media for knowing what is happening around.
When Sri Sri Ravishankarji’s birthday was organised in Bangalore, we could see millions of youngesters from almost all states of India and different parts of the world were here. It is a great blessing that youth could find a Guru in Sri Sri Ravishankarji and Sri Sri Ravishankarji could bring them around. There is no doubt that a good number of the people who hear Sri Sri will turn into more deeper studies of Vedanta.
That is the way it is. We need not feel bad or worry about what Krishna said is not assimilated. What Krishna told to Arjuna, it took some time for Arjuna to understand…but millions of us dont understand because, our mind is covered by a thick sheath called ‘ IGNORANCE ‘. To remove this proper study is needed under the guidance of a good Guru. one need not too much worry on Guru..because, when one start, one will get a Guru and if one does not like that Guru ( as much as the Guru does not feel that the student is not yet ready for him to teach) one will look for alternatives and will land …but the process of study should go on.
Once a beginning is made then one can see that the quest is towards ‘ SELF”..
September 29th, 2006 at 10:43 am
First of all I have not been knighted, nor would I want to come under the Order of the British Empire which is tainted by blood of millions around the world. Please do not refer to me as sir.
Pairamblr G I understand that Sri Sri Ravishankar is doing alot of good work and is a sucess in his own right, it is encouraging to hear that a lot of the youth are being encouraged.
I understand the quest for self knowladge, which is important, constant and ongoing and highly personal. However is this the messege of the Gita????The essence of the Gita is a fundmental and logical part of Dharma, which is on action rather than renunciation. It is not on ’self’ rather the greater good of humanity.
If it were on the self exploration, Arjuna would have been advised by Krishna to start meditating on the battle feild and Kirshna could have put an end to both the opposing sides or made very body meditate instead of engaging in war.
A realised soul himself played part in defeating Adharmic energy and being counted into Dharmic army at the fornt line.
September 29th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
To Hinduji,
First of all, i do not think of knight etc when i add “sir” to any one. It is only to indicate respect and sometimes it is with “ji” and sometimes it is with ’sir’ and that is merely part of thought process and so we need not go into that so seriously.
Now coming to the point you have raised about Gita, if you do not mind, may i ask if you were fortunate enough to hear Gita discourses either directly or thru audio cassettes or CD etc? If you were fortunate to hear then may be you have missed some important points. There is nothing wrong in missing important points becasue day in and day out that is what happening to us or that is what happening with us.
We always think a little later- why did not I think that way? or why did I think that way ? etc… IF only …
But that is our mind. To have knowledge, one need to listen, then discuss, then think and discuss, then make the mind accept that so that that knowledge is understood . This process is not easy. One need to work on that. Dharma and Adharma are but two important points - but how does one decide on what is Dharma and what is not? That was what Arjunas problem and in 18 chapters Krishna edcated Arjuna finally to tell him - now i have told you - but you have to take your decision on ” action”.
In this the most important point is SELF. Why did Arjuna felt bad about killing ‘ HIS OWN ‘ relatives etc. My dear friend, it is beautiful and any one who gets a chance to hear or study Gita under a good TEACHING SWAMIJI is blessed because if he understands even partly the his LIFE - this VYVAHARIKA LIFE (transactional life ) ALSO - becomes easy.
There is GITA HOMESTUDY - 4 VOLUMES by Sw Dayananda Saraswatiji. It is worth for one group of say 8 to 10 people to gather every week and read, discuss etc . This i am suggesting since i do not know how often you are able to listen to the Teaching Swamijis. Once you start with this and once you reach chapter 3 then i think even if you do not want , you will study that and you will start looking for more audio discourses. This can be from any of the Swamijis.
By the way, Ifind that knowing Hinduism, knowing Dharma etc help us - individuals - in our day to day life. we need not separate spirituality from day to day life since what Hinduism teaches is only HOW WE CAN LIVE HAPPILY.
September 29th, 2006 at 7:57 pm
pairamblr G
I am sure what you have perscribed will help some people, but would it lead to social reform, yes but by that time what would be the state of the world.
Hindu kids everywhere are misguided, by parents who have no knowladge of Dharma yet they encourage their kids to, like you, to listen to these guru’s. The fact is that we need to reform hinduism and it is upto the future (youngster’s) to carry it forward. I can see by this thread that there are a lot of young people who have experienced similar situations.
I have heard people like yourself time and time again, with a very idealistic and rather outdated way communicating. It is also a very comfortable stance to take up, just listen to the guru’s they’ll tell you what you need to do, neither is this a very spiritual way of learning about Dharma. I agree that should analyse things for themselves after all it is a Dharmic attribute.
When I hear most guru’s wanting their target audience to simplly donate money to the fund of the guru’s choice, I can’t help feeling the blind leading the blind situation. When asked how can a group of young people contribute ’students no, give the IT professionals I’ll tell them where to put their money’. This is never encouraging.
September 29th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
The souls journey is started by God and ends at God.
In between their are influences of genetics, social status, education…
The two storied in this months letter are such journeys. Be proud of your gentics, your culture, and your self effort. Without these you would be a slime mold, ethnocentrist, clod.
Amrit, the nectar of God, is your way that you are now creating. I personally thank you. We all struggle, if we didn’t what would we be accomplishing?
hariaum
September 29th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
Hinduji, I am no one to prescibe any one anything. I only discuss and that too for a very selfish reason - these discussions are a good test for my own understanding and misunderstanding - which then help me to look at what is that which is still not clear to me etc…
2. U are concerned about Social Reform. That is another beauty of Hinduism. When each individual understand and act according to Dharma can there be any better Social Reform? Suppose I decide that I will not perform an action that hurts the other unless it is a part of duty ( the test is IF SOME ONE DOES PERFORM THAT ACTION AND IT HURTS ME AND I DO NOT LIKE THAT, THEN THE SAME ACTION HOW CAN I PERFORM WHICH WILL HURT THE OTHER - except when it is part of the duty)
3. Truth is only one. Rest is all our perceptions. There is nothing called idealistic - in real terms. If one is capable of doing something then he does. If one is not capable of doing that, he does not. Now it is the others perception - which is due to limited knowledge that we have- that make one feel idealist, practical, etc.
4. Parents are as much human being like you and me and they are also having too many limitations. Atleast they helped us in getting literate so that we are now in a position to communicate? And now that we are able to communicate why not we extend that further by our trying to do our bit by working ourselves - using the medium available for us ? It is the nature of we human beings that - instead of understanding our limitations and trying to overcome those, we would prefer to shift the responsibility to others. In school, when we get less marks, we say the teacher didnt teach that. or the questions were asked from portions those are not included in the sylabus. etc.
In one of the sessions, the students ( even elders are students in front of a teaching Swamiji) were asked what is the examination for?
try answering that yourself ….then read on..
The real objective of examination is for the person who answer the questions to know how much he ( the person who is answering the questions ) has understood the subject . When some one gets 60 pc it means that that person’s knoledge is only to that extent and once he knows that he is expected to further work on that to improve his knowledge. but what happens is that = we are happy that we got that percentage and move on. There is no idealism or realism here, it is our ignorance that is cause of all problems. And solution lies in no where else but in us….our self trying to get the knowledge. else we can always blame parents, teachers, friends ( who do not allow us to listen to the teacher when they take the class) etc.
5.You too have heard the story of five blind men discussing how an elephant is? We all laugh after reading the story- missing the important point. When each of the blind said what he understood , if only all of the blind men had thought that = each of us is giving a different version - which means what we experience is not total - suppose if we combile every ones statement, then may be our understanding also will be more accurate?
So there is nothing wrong in blind men leading the blind as long as they decide to use available tools and others around to find out more.
6.I am sorry, I didnt understand what you are trying to say in the last line of your posting .
September 30th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Having read your responses to the article, it is clear to see that many of you have not understood the essence of it. I do not balme other people for what happens in my life, I take something called action. So what if my parents did not teach me about Hinduism ? A lot of Hindu parents are exactly the same because of their parents who didnt teach them. The only difference is, is that every now and again the pattern changes its path. THANK GOD, God chose me to change that path in my family.
I count my blessings for the way things happened in my life. Had it not have been for my parents, I probably, along with many Hindu females would have been walking the path of destruction.
To the old age pensioner, I really feel your love and passion for Hinduism but I think it is time you knew, that ISKCON do not regard themselves as Hindus. So its best you dont associate our religion with such people.
Also, in response to Jay who seems to think that dharma will protect itself. Ive never heard such a silly ( could use a harsher word ) thing in my life.
Thats like saying when you sit at the table to eat, the spoon will miraculously rise to your mouth !
Your attitiude is precisley what I was speaking against. Maybe you should consider reviewing your ideas in your brain before you begin ruining young, innocent Hindus minds ! Harish however, got it on point.
DHARMA PROTECTS THOSE WHO PROTECT DHARMA !!!!!!!!!!
Talking is not enough !
September 30th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
A great read and an inspiration to us all.
Thanks for the honest and open opinion.
Those who find it difficult arguing with Muslims and they abuse our religion should read this article in full
http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
October 2nd, 2006 at 8:03 pm
Shame on those Hindu parents who choose the easy way out by submitting and conforming to western values and who are consequently denying their children the right to inherit their religion and culture. By doing this they are taking away their children’s identity and sense of belonging to a community. What do they have in return for giving all this up? The right to be a faceless, nameless “not Hindu” , not anything else , non person, not belonging anywhere. A lot of migrant Hindus focus only on the need to earn money and get a secular education while the other religions are also making sure their children have a good religious grounding. It is necessary to do both.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:11 am
Radhikaji,
There is no disease worse than poverty
There is no poverty worse than IGNORANCE.
Instead of our being harsh on our parents or any “parents” , we need to do a bit of positive work. When we have an opportunity, talk to them. But to talk to them we also need to improve our own knowledge of Hinduism. For this there are beautiful web sites available now..
A small search will help to see many sites and it is good to visit them and see if it interests. if not go to the other sites.
People who are interested in seriously pursuing the KNOWLEDGE, there are institutitons conducting 15days, one month, 3 months, 3 year programmes on HINDUISM. their they teach SANSKRIT and also various upanishads , Vedanta etc. The long term courses are free including accommodation and food, but one need to be sincere and work on that since it is not easy. The institutions run it do get the cv of the people who are interested in learning and then select. We have seen many of them who completed these programmes pursue teaching and furthering the studies.
We need to make our temples a place of learning, besides place of rituals. Temples in every country need to invite the knowledgable TEACHING SWAMIJI’s for discourse on some subject of VEDANTA for a week or so - so that people who can be in that area hear them, listen to them, think and then work on that .
October 3rd, 2006 at 10:00 am
Following is a posting from the www.advaitin.com - yahoo group.
I am not very sure how many of you will be interested in this. But I found it really so beautiful and expressed so nicely, I have not come across many postings on VYVAHARIK- PARMARTHIKA AND PRATHIBHASIKA.
pardom me if i am bringing in here too difficult subjects- but i felt that if some one finds it interesting, encouraged by the intricacies of the thinking in HINDUISM etc..he may go for more deapths…
————————————————
One’s enquiry into Brahman asks: Is Brahman cosmic or acosmic? Is It the cause of the
world, and if so, are both real? Is It endowed with attributes or is It attributeless? The
Upanisads posit Brahman as both: (1) the all-inclusive ground of the universe, and (2) the
reality of which the universe is but an appearance. It is the difference between these two
views that made possible the subsequent divergence between the later Vedantic schools.
To understand, let alone appreciate, any philosophical system, demands that one
comprehend correctly its perspective. It is crucial that one comprehends the distinction
that Advaita makes between the Absolute (paramarthika) and the relative (vyavaharika)
points of view. Actually the Advaitin admits of three levels of reality: the apparently real
{pratibhasika), the empirically real {vyavahdrika), and the Absolutely
real {paramarthika)—but for our purpose here, the first two may be grouped together.
This distinction pervades the entire system and what is true from one point of view is not
so from another. Without being absolutely clear in regard to this distinction, it is likely that
one will accuse the Advaitin of inconsistencies, contradictions, and absurdities.
There are not two types of being nor two truths, but one reality, one truth, as seen from
two different perspectives:
Brahman is known in two forms as qualified by limiting conditions owing to the
distinctions of name and form, and also as the opposite of this, i.e. as what is free from all
limiting conditions whatever…thus many (sruti) texts show Brahman in two forms
according as it is known from the standpoint of vidya or from that of avidya.[Brahma-
sutra-bhaysa, 1.1.11.]
This distinction allows Advaita to move freely in both levels with no contradictions.
From the empirical point of view, Advaita admits of numerous distinctions. Metaphysically,
there is the problem of the One and the many. Individuals are recognised as different from
one another and there exists a seeming plurality of things. Epistemologically, there is the
subject-object dichotomy, as well as the problem of truth and error. Ethically, there is the
problem of bondage and freedom. Yet, from the absolute point of view, there is only
Brahman/ Atman—one and non-dual.[ Chandogya Upanisad 6.2.1. ekam eva advitiyam.]
Either one is involved at the relative level of duality or one realizes the non-dual Brahman
as the truth. The pluralism that is experienced at the empirical level, and with which
philosophical enquiry commences, is not the final truth. Advaita admits all kinds of
distinctions at the empirical level, from an empirical point of view, yet denies them from
an absolute point of view.
Advaita avers that anything which is experienced is real, in some sense or other.[ “Just as
the notion of one’s identity with the body is assumed to be valid knowledge exactly so is
this ordinary knowledge—till the Self is truly known.”] Therefore, Advaita’s epistemology is
realistic and posits that every cognition points to an objective reference—whether veridical
or erroneous. The question becomes: Exactly how real are the things that are experienced
in the empirical world? Advaita replies that the things of the empirical world are real so
long as the empirical order lasts:
The division of real and unreal depends upon knowledge or experience: that is real whose
knowledge does not miscarry; the unreal on the contrary, is the object of a knowledge
which fails or goes astray.
Thus, according to an Advaitin, the real is that which lasts, which suffers no
contradictions, and which is eternal and unsublatable. Things of the world may be said to
be real until they suffer sublation. Thus they are called ‘what is other than the real or the
unreal’ (sadasad-vilaksana), illusory (mithya) and indescribable (anirvacaniya). Since they
are cognized, they are not unreal (asat). Since they are sublated, they are not real (sat). By
this criterion, Brahman alone is the absolutely real; never being subject to contradiction.
All else can be called ‘real’ only by courtesy. The distinction between one individual and
another, the existence of a plurality of things, the attribution of attributes to the Absolute
are all concessions to the Truth made from the relative point of view.
Obviously, according to Advaita philosophy, it is from the vyavaharika or relative or
ajnani’s point of view that there are two levels - from a jnani’s point of view, there is only
Brahman. Philosophy should eventually give rise to experience - “words turn back . . .
vedah becomes avedah . . .” Yet, isn’t it interesting that the Upanisads are willing to accept
either position?! I don’t believe Advaita philosophy is - but that pertains to one’s sadhana.
Isn’t it the case that any classification must necessarily arise from an ajnana position?
One can talk; one need not talk; or one can talk otherwise - such are the rules governing
talk. How eloquent is Dakshinamurti’s silence!
written by shri John
October 3rd, 2006 at 10:11 am
Having read this article I can see where you are coming from. The issue is that we as Hindus need to have something that we feel proud of. The sikhs at the very minimum wear their kara and the muslims well we know they grow large beared and veils. We need to find something iconic that makes us stand out as Hindus. The problem is that it is not that we are not proud of who we are it is that we are not as aggressive in showing who we are. If you look at normal white people they maybe christian but many do not wear anything to symobise it. What I am trying to say is religion is something one should carry within themselves not on themselves like the sikhs and muslims do. I get extreamly fustrated for example when muslims impose that food in the western world should be catered to how they wish to eat it. They want to bend and mould socitey to fit them and do not adapt to their surroundings. We as hindus are the the founders of the main religion and Sikhs and Muslims have derived from this. Everyone at one point was Hindu so we should be proud! Stastically we as Hindus are actually the most achived religion in the world by finding cures, mathmatics, education and the core of religion. In laymen terms we wrote a story and then someone we thought we trusted copied it and changed it to fit their views and published it as their own. Have a think about that and I will say no more.
Be proud to be Hindu!
October 3rd, 2006 at 10:30 am
this is the sad story of hinduism. hinduism is left to worshiping few idols only. the trouble is there is no single head of the religion like the pope or islam. the only organisation which is trying to spread hinduism is RSS which is demonised by the so called secular media and the government of india. hinduism is far more than worshipping ganesha and celebrating diwali. all the knowledge in the universe is within gita which is not taught any where. it is up to individuals to find there own paths, which is not practical all the times. swami vivekanand said in his famous speech in chicago ” i come from a religion of which budhism is a crawling child and christianity is a distant echo”.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:24 am
Anandji,
Instead of feeling sad, what we need to do is to learn ourselves, understand ourselves and then discuss with others . That way we give a chance to ourselves in bettering our understanding and also side by side, others a chance to think when they feel like. No force, no violence.
If you think Hinduism is left with idol worship, that is the knowledge one has or that is the ignorance one has. Human beings - belonging to all religion, geographical segment, culture, tradition etc has a complex. They think why they are not better than the other. We need to come out of our complex. And that is possible only if one gets educated in the first instance and then learn VEDANTA.
That is why it is necessary to see that the poor and downtrodden in remote areas of the country get a chance to get educated and organisations like ART OF LIVING, ALL INDIA MOVEMENT FOR SEVA and so many other organisations are working seriously in this direction. But they have no marketing or image building like in case of other organisations.
THERE IS NO DISEASE WORSE THAN POVERTY
THERE IS NO POVERTY WORSE THAN IGNORANCE..
so think on this and try to do our bit
By the way, the knowledge is available for people who are interested and if some one try to inject the knowledge on to some one, people will not accept it since it is knowledge and not some belief. Today even the web is helping us all in getting more information to help ourselves and get help from some one who could help us.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Anger is the down stream effect of lust. Whenever we are angry it is because we want something. It is lust that we control to be better hindus, followers of Krishna and the vedic traditions, in our search for truth. We use anger to recognize a problem in ourselves. (yes, if you see it in others they have a problem too).
As to dharma protecting itself. Who the heck do we think we are that we are saving dharma? Does truth die? Does Love cease to exist? Our puny human existance is wonderful but it is not all that. But we do mean, I hope, by this is that people suffer if we allow injustice (a-cit, himsa). This is evidence that we failed as resonsible members of dharma to respond or anticipate injustice. But it is not a tribal statement. If all I care about is the Indian than I may be a good Indian. But if I am willing to kill 1 billion people for my India then I am a Rakshash. I must see all things bow before Narayan, even myself, and give my egotism to That. Then I can serve dharma better. It is not for me to save, but to save me. It is not for me to claim, but for it to claim me. This not a call to inaction but rather to action with prudence, depth, sincerety, self knowledge, and all the elements of yoga
hariaum
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:03 pm
I can understand what you are going through. I grew up in India and moved to the US a few years back. The change in relegious outlook hit me immediately. When I was in India, I took our relegion, our temples, pooja and all the traditions for granted. I have even rebelled against some of the practices or poojas we were asked to do. In India your Hindu status is a given, it is yours and you do not feel ashamed about it.
In the US, I see most Hindu’s coming out now and celebrating our festivals with gusto in the few temples that have come up. It is not a Hindu thing for them, it is keeping touch with their traditions, keeping the traditions alive for their children and their children.
Ask yourself, who is a Hindu?. If you ask this question to a Christian, Muslim, Jew or Sikh, they will immediately quote from their holy book, thou shall — this or thou shall that and so on. But if you are a Hindu, can you quote from the Gita or our Vedas or even if we fall upon the ageless tenets of Sanathan Dharma. I am afraid I have not found any answers, and my ignorance and lack of persistence is why I have not found them.
But in its place, I believe:
I am a Hindu, a unique individual who comes from an unbroken line of people going back to more than 5,000 years.
I am a Hindu and when I get up in the morning and chant the gayathri mantra, I am doing the same practice as another Hindu would have done 5,000 years ago.
I am a Hindu, and I am the bridge between a time before history was even recorded to the modern.
I am a Hindu who come from a line of people who mastered every science, engineering skill and artistic challenge long before Archimedes took a bath or any apples fell on Newton’s head.
I am a Hindu whose forefather walked with the Gods, sailed the oceans and build some of the greatest temples in the world.
I am a Hindu who will listen to all faiths and relegions and appreciate the greatness of all of them and deride none of them.
I am a Hindu who like a mother will be patient over pettiness of other religions who claim to be better.
I am a Hindu whose covenant with God is my own, for I am what I am and He is a part of me as much as I am a part of him.
I am a Hindu, for my strength does not need others confirmation, my knowledge does not require anothers verification and my presence, anyones permission.
If you call yourself a Hindu merely because you were born as one, please rethink and understand what you are. A Hindu is not just a relegious title, it goes beyond that.
Ram
October 4th, 2006 at 3:26 am
Dear Ramji,
BEAUTIFUL, FANTASTIC…that is the least one could say after reading your this posting.
pairamblr
October 4th, 2006 at 6:09 am
Dear Shrimati Nidhi,
It was heartening to read your article. I went through a lot of similar emotional struggles, even though I was born & brought up in a knowledgable orthodox Brahmin family in Chennai. It required a brush with agnosticism, then reading Gandhi’s works and a couple of instances that I simply couldn’t attribute to coincidences anymore, before I realized the beauty of Hinduism & reverted fully into Sanatana Dharma.
It is Dharma which is protecting me in my dark hours & personal crisises. Without the light of our ancient culture and God’s blessings, I don’t know how one would endure all that life has to throw at us.
May Shakthi bless you and may God keep showing you the right path.
Thanks for the heartening & uplifting article. Keep it up.
Swaminathan
October 4th, 2006 at 9:18 am
There is a lot I agree with on the above posts, but I would like to ask what happened to the hundreds for Hindu hero’s who gave everything with the vision that future generations would carry their spirit forward (Shivaji, Rana Partap, Madanlal Dhginra and many many more).
It is important to learn from history, for most communities around the world it serves as constant reminder of how to live their lives, there is only the Hindu’s that try to ignor this and are not concerned with uncovering the truth.
The solution is for Hindu’s to gain more knowladge regarding history so that we can move forward from the escapists attiutdes, that plagues our socitey. The publications of Voice of India is the starting point for this.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:20 am
http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/hindusoc/ch10.htm
this maybe of some interested
October 4th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
MESSAGE DELETED
Message from Admin: pairamblr - please keep the length of your messages short. Do not copy and paste large tracts of text, however brilliant they are - instead just post the link. Long tracts of text make the discussion difficult to follow for people, and we are trying to encourage mass participation rather than discourage it.
Thank you in advance.
October 4th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Dear Hinduji,
www.voiceofdharma.com/books/hindusoc/ch10.htm is very nice indeed. Every para is almost exactly what we have been discussing in here. And he talks of way out in the end…if we notice what he talks - it is nothing but GAINING KNOWLEDGE…understanding that, assimilating that..
once we have that knowledge, there is there any chance for inferiority ? any difficulty to talk any one on this earth - who has an ear?
History plays a role of keeping us informed of certain information, as understood by some one who has witnessed or heard from …etc. So while we can keep ourselves informed and use that information discretly, decision making process need to be based on knowledge. When decisions are made emotionally, since those are more subjective in nature, the chances of it going wrong are more.
Again thanks for the website info which is a wonderful article.
October 4th, 2006 at 9:04 pm
a really easy to read and understand the basics of Hinduism.
Great book recommend it to any Hindu
have a quick at it online here
http://www.amiahindu.com/
ISBN 1-879904-06-3 Halo Books, USA and Rupa Press, India
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1879904063/104-9218789-4801500?v=glance
Am I A Hindu by Ed Vishwanathan is an excellent book for beginners, people who have developed a sudden urge to know more about religions and what they are all
3~’
October 4th, 2006 at 9:25 pm
pairamblr G
For a person with the will and want of ‘gaining knowladge…understanding that, assimilating that…’
Surely you must have read some of Sita Ram Goel’s works, if not I suggest you do, cause you seem to have mistaken a leaf for whole the tree.
There is a lot that puzzels me with your statements.I agree that History lone is not enough, however for the Hindu community at large it’s importance cannot be stressed enough when major attemps are being made to wipe out the true history. Which is to be replaed with a more secular and demeaning one to Hindu’s, of which you are aware. Yet plainly even you are unaware of the true Hindu Resistance. Are not the Vedas and the great many other works by risih’s part of Hindu history and the evolution of the Hindu, if not, the global consciousness???
Or is it that you know Hindu history but are not confortable with it???
October 5th, 2006 at 6:21 am
Dear Nidhi,
I went through a similar experience myself when I undertook Hindu activities and started spending time for the Hindu cause. As u rightly said, intrinsically Hindu Dharma has a survival capability which is perhaps why people like you and me who have no strong Hindu background end up strongly standing up for its values.
Rgds
Dinesh
October 5th, 2006 at 8:37 am
Hinduji,
I have no hesitation or feeling of inferiority or any such things to say that my knowledge is limited. And i am willing to read anything…since i think by reading that i am able to assess withing my understanding something.
Now WHEN U SAY THAT VEDAS ARE PART OF HINDU HISTORY, i would rather leave that for others who are sure more knowledgable that me to comment upon. But to my small knowing mind, there is HUGE DIFFRENCE BETWEEN PERCEPTION AND ( means of knowledge)/ KNOWLEDGE
I have no doubt that some will discuss this with you someday and make explain you the difference.
October 5th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Which part did want others to clarify for you….the Purans, the Vedas, Yoga, Meditation and other inspired documents of Hindu/human spiritual evalution discovered or undiscovered…are the things that we as Hindu’s need to promote as metaphysical research…why do we as Hindu need the aproval of others to tell us about our inspired documents.
Are you a Hindu or follower of some sect, the likes of isKON, that is ready to call themseleves Hindu’s when they are in troble or need donations…this maybe a perception…but when all that you say is in that very abstract…then you are sending out that vibe…by now saying that let others decide what is Hindu…as Hindu’s we for ourseleves need to decide what Hindu means to us…yet combining effeorts in the most effective way to educate not only Hindu’s but also the wide/global community.
I would love to discuss with you…face to face…we can mee in London and discuss as much as you like.
Jai Bhole Nath
October 5th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
More info on Hindusim. With so many websites on the internet where does one start?
Im trying my best to spread Hindu events in Leicester (and across the UK)
and lots of information on Hinduism and links to new and exciting articles and websites.
I hope those interested in discovering Hinduism will check all my links which I have posted since February this year.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hinduinfo/
Its all good stuff!
October 6th, 2006 at 1:48 am
Hinduji,
I already said that my knowledge is limited and i am learning. How can a student debate or discuss with a knowledgable person like you? From you also, may be i will pick up some points for my understanding - to help me- that is all.
To my limited understanding, VEDA/vEDANTA IS NOT HISTORY . It is a means of knowledge to gain knowledge. It is not perception. It is means of knowledge towards the knowledge and understanding of the ABSOLUTE TRUTH - PARAMARTHIKA SATYA .
To my limited knowledge there is a huge difference between History and means of Knowledge. Once is a perception based information, subjective, etc where as the other is objective analysis .
If what you say is right, ( and may be you are right..but I have not reached that level of yours) then be it so. I only thought if my understanding is right, then some one will discuss this aspect with you since i am not capable of discussing this further - BECAUSE OF MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE and i am only a student.
i wonder if i said ” let others decide ” - I hardly do that or think that way since i try my best to teach my mind that whatever I do, it is done consciously, and even I feel that i am doing something not to my liking, the decision to do is mine- . so there is less chance for me to say let others decide in matter of leaning and knowledge.
October 6th, 2006 at 1:51 am
Hinduji,
I already said that my knowledge is limited and i am learning. How can a student debate or discuss with a knowledgable person like you? From you also, may be i will pick up some points for my understanding - to help me- that is all.
To my limited understanding, VEDA/vEDANTA IS NOT HISTORY . It is a means of knowledge to gain knowledge. It is not perception. It is means of knowledge towards the knowledge and understanding of the ABSOLUTE TRUTH - PARAMARTHIKA SATYA .
To my limited knowledge there is a huge difference between History and means of Knowledge. One is a perception based information, subjective, etc where as the other is objective analysis .
i wonder if i said ” let others decide ” - I hardly do that or think that way since i try my best to teach my mind that whatever I do, it is done consciously, and even I feel that i am doing something not to my liking, the decision to do is mine- . so there is less chance for me to say let others decide in matter of learning and knowledge.
October 6th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
pairamblr G
Well let me put it another way, just because someone has read the vedas it does not mean they understand them…take McCaully or the Nazi’s…just like if someone reads or memorizes the Gita by heart, it does not mean that they understand the messege…I am not on this forum to make sure nobody can challenge me…neither am I here to boost my ego…I just have to look in the mirror, for that…I also here to learn…if others are willing to explain.
I think we should meet so to combine efforts on issues effecting Hindu’s here and globally.
Jai Bhole Nath
October 7th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
Hinduji,
I doubt if any one will have a differing view on what u have stated : ” just because some one has read the vedas it does not mean they understand them…” correct. That is why VEDANANTA study itself has stated that one need ” SHRAVANAM; MANANAM, NIDIDHYASANAM.. etc.
And may be this is the beginning. You have read a lot and you find a lot of them appealing to your senses. That is why even you suggested reading voiceofdharma.
Today, thanks to web, we have very good websites which help us in understanding, asking any questions and the Satsang members are there to help us a lot.
namaskaram
October 7th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
I must congratulate the writer for making a stand even when family opposes.
I find the attitude of parents thinking that too much religion is not good here in S. Africa where i live. Parents think their kids will become ‘bhagats.’
But as a way previous writer pointed out, ISKON and SHM are doing good work.
Well done to the writer again!
October 8th, 2006 at 6:11 am
Great Read, Nidhi Wish you all the best in life!
October 8th, 2006 at 11:36 am
pariramblr G
The main difference in our point of view is that, for you all text are an excuse to take the moral high ground in every situation, however for me they are the motivations behind my actions, yet still texts like another. It is not only from Hindu texts that one can gain the Hindu perpective from.
Escapist Hindu’s are the reason that the Hindu perspective is still sideline in the wider communities, politically, histroically and socially, some escapists use drugs and some use words however the end result is the same, ESCAPE.
However sites like this one are the encouragement for the Hindu perspective to be brought to the forefront.
I have to agree with you, what I have stated nobody would disagree with, but they are more than welcome to.
Not only would I encourage Hindu’s to read voiceofdharma.com, but also voice of India books and gain a more wider perpective of different agendas of different groups that esist and that have exsisted in the past.
Jai Bhole Nath!!!
October 8th, 2006 at 11:38 am
Suvarna Sinh,
Could you please elaborate further on your statement:
‘But as a way previous writer pointed out, ISKON and SHM are doing good work.’
I sure I have missed something?
October 8th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Like many other hindus i’ve experienced being called an animal worshiper and the other stereoptypes that are normaly use by other people. My parents also discourages me of standing up for hinduism but i think its time that we stand up as a single voice of hindu and what nidhi ji has done is a step towards that.
October 8th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
Hinduji,
Normally when we look at a mountain or a river etc…very rarely we feel that ” the mountain could have been bigger, the river could have been wider ” etc. But at the same time when we see some one, very rarely will be there a mind of a human being which does not felt something or other about that person. This is the human psyche called complex. When you think that ” i am like this” or “i am like that”- what could be done. I have to leave it at that…so that u are happy that way and i am happy anyway.
I came across a nice posting on voice of dharma…one gentleman writes that when he thought of writing about Hinduism, he could not write 10 lines it seems. I thought about that and i felt that he could be right as well and i may be also one among those who cannot write 10 lines about Hinduism
The question then is why? The reply is simple and straight. I dont know.
MY IGNORANCE is the reason that I cannot write 10 lines.
So also why Hindus are sidelined or on side lines is because of OUR IGNORANCE. So the solution is only in removing the IGNORANCE. The only way IGNORANCE could be removed is by becoming KNOWLEDGABLE.
When parents do not have a reply to a question on Hinduism the youth now need to find out the answer and even inform the parents too.
My friend was telling me ” this is the month of Ramzan and this month every muslim is supposed to pay 2.5% of their income( yearly ) as zakat” . We in hinduism have no such rules.
Almost all the children of Muslim parents are taught Qran by one teacher or other - either by visiting their home or the children going to the teacher etc. In case of Hinduism - no such things.
In nutshell, the chidren are not getting a chance to learn properly anything about Hinduism. Normally thru TV etc we hear about Rama, Krishna, etc..and so we start praying this GOD to get our desires fullfilled. Then some one telling us that so and so has devine powers so we approach him or her.. Thru all these, real knowledge about HINDUISM gets a back seat.
Earlier, our parents were not rich enough and so they had to work for longer hours, may be they had less time to spend with family etc. The parents of today earn more, but then the nuclear family has resulted in limiting the spreading of the knowledge.
But then the youth of today has at its fingertips so many other benefits which their parents hadnt.
Hardly there will be any youth who is not seeing the web. If they use this, then that will make a good beginning. I have seen some comments in discussion columns that ” temples” are waste etc. Temples are also ideal for SATSANG and what is the english translation of SATSANG? it is like combined study.
When some one tells that Hindu prays a rock, worship an animal etc, we become defensive because we do not know what is this worship, whom we worship etc. For every action that we perform, Hinduism can explain. But if one is seriously interested, then one need to find out that…pursue that and there are many good educated Swamijis’ ( teaching Swamijis) available.
When we read a book , normally the explanations given are limited. Where as when we hear their talk, then we get too many good examples, questions and answers, and points which normally would have made us doubt the statments. People who want to find out contradictions, can easily locate them even in GITA. But then those contradictions are the result of not knowing SANSKRIT well enough and also not knowing VEDANTA or UPANISHADS well enough.
Arsha Vidya Gurukulam in Hrishikesh and Coimbatore( south India) conduct 3 year programmes for youngesters who are interested in a well designed study of Hinduism and these people who graduate then live with some other Teaching Swamijis and start teaching children etc. The programme is absolutely FREE - full boarding and accommodation provided at the Ashram iteself. Hundreds of youth has come out graduating and are working in different parts of India and abroad.
There are many such organisations who teach the would be teachers. Also, there are organisations which take care of CHILD EDUCATION, TRIBAL HEALTH AND WELFARE ETC.
I thought of writing this only to give u a little bit of happenings in India. Even in Dubai, the Art of Living group, daily in the night, take all the food that is there in the hotels, and distribute to poor people - irrespective of the religion.
October 8th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
pairamblr G,
Thanks! for the happenings of India and Dubai, but these activities have been perform by Hindu’s constantly down the ages, this is nothing new, what about the Hindu refugee’s in India selling their children as labour for the equivalent of £250 for the basics of life or the tens of thousands of Hindu’s giving the ultimate sacrifice, of their lives in barracks and borders of India, what of their families. Hindu’s are being ethnically cleansed in their own home, India, being pushed out. Yet, the Hindu community and the political parties in India are silent on the issue, just one of many issues faced by Hindu’s, most Hindu’s are unaware of these issues. Most of the religious leader’s I am aware of have not touched these issues, the standard reply tends to be ‘either it is maya and lets chant the maha mantra’ which will sort the problems of today.
We need to worry about Hindu’s, nobody else seems to (sometimes not even Hindu’s), yes knowledge is a key element and the seeking of it should never stop, are the only one’s that can lift the consciousness for the world this but we need to reform ourselves. There will be people that need the help of a guru or swami but not everyone, we should be debating openly and frankly on all issues which is part of the essence of Dharma.
Life itself is a major contradiction, there is life and death dealt by the same force. The Gita’s massage is simple, you need to look at all aspects of life to understand your duty, look at what is going on around you, look at and understand everyone’s agenda and them act according to Dharmic principals. Are you trying to say that, Arjuna acted to what was said by Krishna by renouncing the world and started following Sadhu Dharma???
Thankfully we as Hindu’s still respect and pray to all forms, especially in today climate where the natural resources are fast running dry, we show the world that man and nature can co-exist. Yet this is not something the Hindu’s are asked about nor do Hindu’s in the limelight cannot seem to articulate.
I completely agree that Hindu’s have become ignorant to the essence of Dharma, and have become more dogmatic then the truly dogmatic religions of more recent times, yet in the youth I see the true hope of the revival of Dharmic principles. Especially in the UK.
Thinking is a process yet to reach it’s conclusion, which maybe the case for you but personally for me I have know where I am headed. However I am sure if we meet face to face I can help you reach your conclusion. Hopefully, we can conclude this once and for all.
Jai Bhole Nath
October 8th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
I think you are both saying the same thing.
On the third hand, though, who has forgotten dharma? The person strugling every day to make the world better (by doing their job, teaching, acting…) or the guy saying others have forgotten dharma?
We are all ignorant of what dharma really is so we form communities to understand dharma better and thus act better. We must have both understanding and action. The problem is when we think action or understanding is enough. When you are supporting dharma, one part is to do dharma, the other is to oppose adharma. Ahimsa is not inaction. Rather it is action to reduce harm. Thus obesity is a sign of himsa as we have over consumed resources. Affluence is himsa for the same reason. But Wealth and good health are tools to fight himsa. Silence in ideological war is himsa. Condemnation of a person is himsa. But teaching dharma, perhaps even aggresively, is ahimsa.
It is a hard road that requires introspection and action but it is the road most worth taking because it is the road of satya - the road of egoless, renounced, informed ACTION on the world.
hariaum
October 9th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Its time to stop moaning and take positive action!!
All I ever hear these days in papers, on TV and radio and websites is how Hindus are lacking in this and that. I want people to stop feeling sorry for Hindus and take some action.
We must put pressures Hindu organisations and temples to circulate more information to the Hindu community. Its no good them sitting on their backside expecting kids to walk through their temple doors!! Its time we asked the temples to take some responsibility and bring the kids to the temples, even if it means taking drastic action like having a concert in the temple halls!! Or why not go to them in pubs and clubs and homes. They must also act in unity through action and not false speeches.
Why don’t we ask kids why they do not go to the temple and improve on those concerns.
October 9th, 2006 at 12:11 am
We also need to use the media like the BBC Asian Network Radio.
Those of you who listen to the BBC radio will notice how the Muslims use the radio to preach Islam during prime time broadcasting.
They are at the minute broadcasting their prayers five times a day every day. They will then play a nice muslim bhajan for them. Then they will reflect on how they can best resolve the problems, issues, concerns, politics, etc facing Muslims around the world. This will continue for the whole of Ramadan – 30 days.
The Hindus and Sikhs in the meantime will sit idly by and listen to these broadcasting. They do not demand that these preaching’s be either stopped or that they do it in their own religious and language programmes or that a similar broadcasting is put on for the Hindus during the month of Navratri and Diwali.
Just listen to the Drive time show at 4 till 7 and Gagans show from 7 till 8 to know what I mean. Im not talking about the News itmes!! Just don’t confuse yourself over those issues.
By the way they will tell you that they do manage to play one (!!!) navratri song (which is never a bhajan! Or an aarti).
All they do is play interviews they do from India for five days about Navratri! Hurray isn’t the BBC wonderful. So what religious things we learnt in those five days, well let me tell you.
I learnt about some woman who won a best dressed competition,
then I learnt about the latest dandias on sale in Gujarat (of yes the latest flashing dandias which will be here next year! Look an exclusive scoop for you all) ,
Then next day we learnt about the latest dance moves,
then the latest dish, and off course how can I forget the latest non-religious related idle chat.
I hope your knowledge on Hindusims and Navratri is now much better then before.
I have failed to get them to broadcast decent Hindu related items, and an aarti everyday for ONLY 5 days at 7.00pm. However together we can get them to broadcast Hindu philosophy, concerns, problems, etc through the radio to our kids.
October 9th, 2006 at 8:08 am
Navin,
The major sects like isKON (including most guru’s and/or sawmi’s) within Hindu Dharma have forgotten the essence of Dharma.
Yes, what you have written above to a largley are the ideal, for a person wanting to renounciate but for a person who wants to be part of this world i.e. work, family and etc surely this is not the sugested path.
If teaching Dharma, as you put it aggresively, is ahimsa then I would like to state that maybe we had enough of, himsa. Then are you saying that Krishna’s way was wrong?
Who’s is the highest Dharma? The guy’s fighting and laying down their lives to protect the country where the Gods take birth, Krishna’s, Rama’s and Rudra’s birth place, INDIA.
By the way I would like some here to inform me as to the current issues facing Hindu’s around the world and in the UK. So that we can maybe try to take some action and move away from this eariy fair talk.
Bhole Nath Ki JAI!
October 9th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Hinduji,
As a student and a lot ignorant person you also confuse me - and may be many like me.
you have ref Navinji’s msg
You say that sects like ISCON, Guru’s ( including swamijis) within Hindu Dharma has forgotton HINDU DHARMA…..
Being a student, can u guide me by telling FROM WHOM SHOULD WE BE TRYING TO STUDY/LEARN - UNDERSTAND about Dharma and Hinduism?
———————————————————
It seems that who ever write in here, for you they are talking of IDEALISM. would u be kind enough to tell a student like me what is ‘ IDEALISM” AND WHAT IS practical ? Since I am a little poor in understanding, would u kindly explain it with examples so that i am able to understand it please?
———————————————————–
Then you are asking ” who is highest Dharma? ..The guy’s fighting and laying down their lives to protect the country where GODs take birth…India..
Do u mean to say DHARMA means defending the country ? or that is the highest DHARMA? what is your defenition of DHARMA?
_——————————————————-
And the last para of your msg says ” some one here to inform me as to the current issues facing Hindus’ around the world and in the UK. So that we can may be try to take some action and move away from this earily fair talk”
Does it mean you are not aware of the issues? ..I am sorry, i could not understand what actually you are trying to say thru this msg of yours.
thanks
October 9th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
with due respects to every one, kindly read the first line as
” Hinduji,
as a student and a lot ignorant person that I am, you confuse me - and may be many like me..”
very sorry that i missed the part ” that I am ” without which the sentence read totally different.
very sorry once again
October 10th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
pairamblr G
If you are confused by me maybe we should meet face to face, I think that should clear up a lot of things.
Can Navin not explain or debate himself? Why limit oneself to merely isKON? Is isKON any kind of an authority on Hindu Dharma? Why would Hindu’s want to be associated with a cult that does not call themselves Hindu, calls itself,’KrishnaCONsciousness’ some form of confused Vaishnava cult? Why would Hindu’s want be associated with a cult, famous for prostitution, drug dealing, paedophilia and etc etc etc???
Let me make myself clear, the major sects have helped in pacifying the Hindu community in an age where the condition of the social, political, environmental and all other aspects of daily life are on the offensive. Is this logical??? Remembering that in Hindu Dharma it is not one particular way, maybe it is ok for renunciation but then not everyone needs to take that path.
Not practical but logical, in every age there has to be different approaches that we need to take up. This is well documented in the Gita. The approach that was valid at the time of Rama, was not valid at the time of Krishna and even in the present time there needs to be a few changes to the strategies that were being used at that time (Krishna’s), so that the principles remain yet we adapt to the current climate. Otherwise we will end up like the other monotheist cults and slow but surely completely fade out, which is bound to happen to isKON.
If defending the land that is not only the birth place of Rudra, Krishna and many other Gods is not the highest Dharma, then maybe you need to explain to me what is the highest commitment that a mere being can make to Dharma? Then are you saying that the result of the Gita is wrong and that Arjuna was told to follow Sadhu Dharma.
By this statement you clearly seem to be aware of issues effecting Hindu’s in the UK and around the world, so why don’t we meet up and then decide what needs to be done. I would like to talk about effective action to take, so to help Hindu’s across the world. My statement also means that I know what you are trying to do, it is not going to work any more, the majority of Hindu religious leader, groups and people have become just like any other religion. Failing to understand that Hindu Dharma is not mono-culture or it’s granddaddy monotheism which most of the world is trying to follow for material gains (which is what most if not guru’s and sawmi’s want), where religion is just another chore with a select few pansies who try and out smart the people committed to make a difference.
Bhole Nath Ki Jai
October 10th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
The most important dharma is to have a family and repay our ancestoral debt.
Arjuna was attacking the government of Bharat, to save righteousness. Rama left Ayodhya and attacked Lanka, not for Ayodhya but for Sita.
The most important Karma is the union of jivatman with paratman.
If this is too idealistic to you than perhaps you need to look into your heart and ask, if not for idealism, then for what do you live?
I know: I am not Krishna, I am not Rama. But my soul believes I am Ravaana, Hitler, and all the brutes in the world. If your soul is appeased by killing me then that is what you must do.
Any man that thinks he is great because he can kill is certainly a fool. Yet every man that protects others is great. Whether that man wears the uniform of India, UK, USA, or Pakistan, that man or woman gives a great sacrifice for a truth that they seek - they give up the opportunity to sit at a mountainside and meditate on God. Likewise a man or woman who gives up the ascetic order to build a family, a society, a business, an NGO… are great. Arjuna was not great because he killed people. Arjuna was great because, at last, confronted by the real complexity of life he collapsed before god and said guide me, you are my guru. The lord did not say go and kill. the lord said he is the actor and the field. The lord did not say you must worship me in my current form,he said use you ishtadevata and that will bring you to me. The lord did not say go and conquer other lands, but come and conquer yourself.
And Arjuna, upon realization, did not take up an ascetic order but did his karma with mistakes (even haven seen the direct truth he erred). So we are all (if we are lucky). In fact we are Drtrashtras: we are given the gita second hand by great advisors but we are blind to understand that it is not for the glorification of our own children but for all of humanity to glorify Krishna that the gita is given to us.
Be proud of Maharana Pratap Singh, Shivaji, Gandhi, Jefferson, Cincinattus, the Knights at Ganymead.. These individuals made the suffering on this world less. They protected their own and then lived by standards appearing ideal to the rest of the people at their time. They protected their land. The made mistakes even after seeing the truth but that’s ok. They are not gods and earth is not the birthbplace of God.
But for all the glory you place on heros, the gita says the hero is only a model for the common man - raising his family, feeding them, sheltering them, passing on dharma to them - and in this karma he is a bhakt of Krishna.
There is no sect of Hinduism. Hinduism is the uiverse of truth. It does not belong to one person, group, or idea. It is beyond all this. So who says what is hindu and what is not - we do but with humility understanding our position is based on the ignorant human psychology.
perhaps more later
hariaum
October 11th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Hinduji,
I think Navinji has explained a lot…really a lot for us to think. May be his posting also clarifies a lot on certain views you are holding on to.
Communication is thru words and this forum help us a lot in communicating. Also, when we communicate thru this medium, every one who read this gets to know what right and wrong things we talk and they too get an opportunity to express which may help us too. So this medium is better for discussions. And what you want to do ” additionally” you can state that also thru this medium so that people who agree with you will make it a point to organise the meed if they feel it is meaningful.
Side by side, I also think that it is better to have an open mind and see what is happening around. Even this Hindu voice is a good thing and people are putting in useful effort to organise ” HINDUS” and we are all communicating . So let us respect others who put in their good time to help the community.
I wish some one writes in a little detail about Dharma so that it becomes clearer for the more .
October 12th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Navin,
Well said and looking at the current climate this is the situation that we currently have in Bharat where people are will to do anything to justify their actions. Rama attacked Lanka and Krishna helped in attacking the government of Bharat, but this was Dharma fighting Adharma, it is hardly the same in today’s situation. It is much like the Iskconites, who have a limited understanding of Dhrama; they prance about as an authority under the guise of being Hindu for donations, yet KrishnaCONsciousness in reality and are being the most Adharmic for doing this. It’s not Hindu Dharma to stand idle in the face of any aggressive action or to be showing signs of the ‘Stockholm Syndrome’.
When it comes to jivatman paratman and its union who decides which instrument of bhakti will attain this. But you probably mean that I should follow bajan sangat to attain this. You have said that to repay our ancestral debt and to have a family is the highest Dharma, the soldier carrying out his Dharma on the boards of Bharat most of who are also repaying their debt and have families then surely are going that extra step, therefore their form of bhakti is the highest by your standards.
If you are an Adharmic force then I am sure nobody would hesitate in destroying that, which also applies to me as well as everyone else. However, you are making it easier for everyone, if you compare yourself to a person ordering the mass murders i.e. Hitler, now you are sounding a bit like Rudolf Hess. It seems that would justify any action to try and get your point across. We as Hindus need to break away from appeasement, it has plagued us for too long and we have not learned from history because it is constantly being repeated, this is the reason why I requested for Hindu’s to learn history it is very important.
The man or woman who wears the uniform of Pakistan is seeking to re-establish the Khilafat, dominate Kafirs by any means and more recently they’re saying that it’s not them but some outside source training and recruiting terrorist. The person wearing the USA uniform is not sure what they are fighting for, sorry ‘New York City’ and ‘because my boss says so’, when it is a question of ‘good old’ money. The person in the UK uniform is sure at least, they are fighting because their politicians can’t be seen to oppose the USA. The guy in the Indian army is fighting sometimes without the correct equipment, bravely patrolling to be good and accidentally should they end up in enemy hands they are made an example of but thanks to bureaucracy they are not allowed to finish the enemy. I am sure everyone is aware of the circumstances, if Navin needs a deeper explanation I am sure that can be organised. When you are on a battlefield and anyone advises you to do action, you don’t hide behind a tree or start dancing saying Hare Krishna mantra you have to fight but in your case that might not be ture.
Why do people who want to live by having a family as part of wider society need to come from an ascetic order, is that what is suggest to everyone?
If the Gods cannot take birth on Earth, than old chum it cannot be the Gods. You made major mistake again, if the likes of Shivaji and Maharana Pratap ‘lived by standards appearing ideal to the rest of the people at their time’. They would not be remembered, because most they were revolutionaries breaking the mould of treachery that had seeped into Hindu society and even now history is repeating itself.
The isKONinans need to be reminded that Hindu’s are not going to be fooled for too long now, there are some very angry Hindu’s out there will to go to extreme lengths to correct treachery in all its forms.
Jai Bhole Nath
October 13th, 2006 at 12:02 am
I agree that soldiers are great persons. I agree that God can do whatever it likes. I agree that if the Hare Krsihnas only chant while being shot at they are not participating in the world as it is.
But god does not belong to one ethnic or demographic group. Just becuase your are an Indian soldier does not make you a better person than a Pakistani soldier. These are names and tomorrow the names may be irrelevant - SouthAsian soldier v the European alliance? All societies have great persons who they remember, and certainly Indians should be aware and proud of theirs. But before India existed, before the earth, before even this universe, Hinduism existed. So Hindus have a higher calling. Yes we must defend the nation in which we live. When Krishna sent his army to help Duryodana, they did as they were told. Duryadana’s error was chosing an army over Krishna - he still did not understand what Krishna was.
As to the anger of Hindus, its about time! Frankly, I’m not sure I believe it. Most Hindus, as most human, beings want life to go on and not get involved. Where is the anger? If I am angry what should I do about it? Now if I act like the angry muslim, then, well, I am not much of a Hindu am I? If I act like a christian preist and support the destruction of culture after culture and then say I am peaceful, well, yet again I an not much of a Hindu. I think your point may be that if I lay down waiting for them to kill me then also I am not much of a Hindu. I agree.
But can we find a Hindu way? The Hare Krishnas have done more to spread the meaning of hinduism to the west than even Vivekananda (who is beyond a doubt one of the greatest personalities of Hinduism). Did ShivaJi teach the west to admire us? - most in the west do’t even know he existed. I believe, like most things in life this is very complex.
We must militarily defend oursleves. (Kshatriyas)
We must economically defend ourselves, (Vaisya)
We must by hard work defend oursleves (sudras)
We must defend ourselves with advancing knowledge (brahmans)
But if all we are doing is defending oursleves we will fail. The problem with Shivaji et al, is that we assume shivaji will protect us - we buy into giving up responsiblity to the caste. this is a mistaken concept of caste that persists in our mind. We are each of us the embodiment of all casts. We must all succeed in martial, economic, labor, and knowledge - in all four castes.
Then we must teach the wrold how to live together in the diversity of life. I see more freinds of hinduism who have learned about hindusim from the hare Krishnas than I see from those having grown up in India. Knowledge, you see, is the ultimate power against evil. Evil has no power over evil. Himsa supports himsa. ONLY AHIMSA can defeat himsa.
So be angry, and use the anger to learn more, teach more, express more, fight the injustices of the world,: the removal of hindus from temples because of their birth, the opresison of women, the oppression of untouchables, the destruction of temples, remove politicians that betray your trust, Stop corruption in India, protest the extermination of Indians by Muslims. Fight these things, if you want krodha, then that is what prakriti has given you, understand that Krishna said Krodha is not desireable.
My version of Hinduism is advaita. My soul is one with the supreme, But as much mine is, so is Hitlers, so is Ravana, so are you..I know many Hindus want a qualified advaita, not me. So to me this is not dramatics. It is a reality that I must confront - that the worst of humanity is in me as is the best and I choose which to pursue today.
Shanti,
Hariaum
October 13th, 2006 at 2:18 am
what a clarity of thought !!!!
what a wonderful way to express!!!
thanks for this beautiful posting Shri Navinji
Praticularly your words ‘ ALL CASTS IN YOU ” indeed is great!!!
I think in one of Sw Chinmayanada discourses he used to tell the audience..
” look how the word ” SUDHRA” is misused and misinterprestted. All that word meant was manual labour. But it is now misinterpretted to be like a person who is to do the cleaning job etc.
But then he asked the audience, ARE WE NOT SUDHARA daily??? atleast for a few minutes??? IF that is the meaning fothe word? WHEN WE GO TO TOILETS…who does the cleaning of our body?? SO ARE WE NOT SUDHRAS?”
Then he went on to explain that a Brahman was supposed to be a person who was by profession involved in teaching- to simplyfiy…he was the teacher and to teach one need to have the knowledge and so a knowledgable person..etc..”
thanks again to HINDU VOICE for this nice site.
October 13th, 2006 at 2:23 am
VERY SORRY..
poor typing.. in the last posting
Kindly read ” a BRAHMIN” WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A PERSON WHO WAS BY PROFESSION INVOLVED IN TEACHING…”
NOT BRAHM A N
Thanks
October 13th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Navin,
I agree on a lot of points that you have made. If Ahimsa is your way, let it be, I agree that if a person is angry then the channeling of that anger is important.
Hindu Dharma cannot be cannot be confined to Bharat it is for all of humanity. isKON has, succeded in becoming another cult of western converts and yet they have failed not only the converts but also Krishna, the statement you have made I would expect not even from a village idot. It shows the mentallity some people in India and abroad have that ‘White is Right’, not always the case, even though we have a lot to learn from western society. The same west also produced people like Hitler and imperialists ideologies such as Marxism and on the other side of the coin people like David Frawley.
Hindu’s need to have in-depth knowladge of not only their own but world history and to not make the same mistakes again and again and again, first Islamic imperialism then British now a morbid facination with anything that is western or anti-Dharmic, I thank the GODS that at least we have some Hindu’s (maybe classed as wayward by their own) in the west who are more active than the one’s in Bharat.
The isKONians are concentrating on their agenda they are limited so much so that they are happy to be monotheists, which can also be said for the founder. Adharmic, with recent scandals they have shown how low they can go (paedophilia, prostitution, etc).
When any person is chanting while being shot at then that is not Dharma (we all must carry out our karma), some people who do not choose to be part of wider society yet thourgh history (e.g.Krishna) do enter the battlefeild to fight for the greater good.
I agree that divinty is everywhere it is merely as humans we cannot see it. Yet this does not justify the stance, of the Pakistan, China, Bangladesh and etc to openly kill, rape and genrally harass Hindus on grounds of religious hatered.
At a time where the states of consciousness in society have become some what threatening, is Ahimsa a very pratical solution?
What I have a problem with is that even you have not understood the messege of people such as Shivaji and Maharana Partap. They were not merely fighting to restore national or international boundries, they were fighting to keep the spirit of Dharma alive. We need to remember them for the actions carried out in dier circumstances (e.g. killing of Afzal Khan). There have been countless personalities such as these throughout the history of Dharmic evolution, as the example Hindu’s to keep the spirit alive.
Om Kranti
October 14th, 2006 at 2:03 am
Agreed. But do remember that even in the west people have fought for dharma and even in the east people calling themselves Hindu have fought for adharma (Ravaana but to name one). I do believe Hindus and Buddhists are statistically less likely to be cruel but i don’t give up hope for any of god’s creations. So I see Krishna’s action in all action but not evreyone agrees to such an unqualified advaita. We end up seeing from our ethnocentrism. That is not a bad thing. And we must remember the heroes - all of them the common wo/men to the Kings and queens.
I’ve been thinking with this conversation: what ought an activist Hindu do?.
What are the injustices in the world that we must face? How must we face them? My personal solution may not appeal to you. The greatest injustices (ahimsa) are done by religious bigots. They are caused by an ideology that gaurantees salvation for group membership. This is an akarmic view of reality. We must help our fellow creations to understand that the universe is Karmic. So I propose that the solution to chirsto-islamic hate is to protest the monolithic symbols of these religions: the Vatican and Mecca. We must be the voice that demands that these become pluralistic centers or if these groups insist on geographic isolationism, then they must abandon sacred sites of Hindus, Buddhists, Mayans, Incas, Celts… So do we have enough “angry” hindus to protest outside of the vatican and Saudi embassies until they become pluralistic? Or do we only have people who want to blow things up? (which I absolutely do not advocate - yet - particularly as it doesn’t work very well - note Iraq, s lebanon…). Can we help the christo-islamic sect open their mind or do we need to destroy them? (I hope for the formmer - after all, how many times did Rama ask Ravaana to give up Sita before his final destruction)
That reminds me, by the way, even when Ravaana was destroyed did evil cease? - even the Ramayana suggests it did not. Thus there is no final victory, only continuous effort towards Brahman that is the goal. To that we must each answer in our own conscience not by bombs but by surrender to Krishna.
Hariaum
October 14th, 2006 at 10:19 am
Click on this URL & read the article, a must-read for every Hindu http://xanatos.blog-city.com/indias_contribution_to_modern_civilisation_part_2.htm
October 19th, 2006 at 8:31 am
Navin & All,
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-06/editorials797.htm
These are the kind of problems Hindu’s need to deal with, before an external issues let us deal with these cults.
They must be stopped can you believe that the government is going to give them money to build a school, this is all on the back of Hindu’s and yet they don’t even call themself Hindus.
We really need to learn from history.
October 19th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Again agreed. (I’ve heard similar things about Sai baba, and other gurus) Of course abuses must be stopped. Only a few egotistical persons would believe abuse should be allowed. and I am sure you realize that the largest group of organized pedophiles is the catholic church. Plus, the greatest abuse of children, violently, is in Africa and then the middle east. The great crimes of evil are everywhere for those who ant to address them. Certainly we must clean our own home.
But don’t disregard the home of the man that is trying to destroy yours. The warriors etc that we admire understand that evil is every where and must be attacked everywhere. But I don’t see the the catholics closing shop or the muslims shutting down the madrasas.
Those of us trying to help Krishna in this world’s activities have a hard job. It begins with ourself and extends to all of humanity. WE must ask what are the true causes and how can we influence them? I am not much of a fan of gurus, etc. but people are drawn to them. If it is out of ignorance that people go then we must publicize the knowledge that they need so as not to need the gurus. Why to parents send their children to schools where they are abused? Is it the econmic or social forces? How do we address those forces? This is why NGO and gurus form. Because the world is complex we need people who think in complexity to find real solutions. Bombing really doesn’t work. Personal, social, economic, political, spiritual progress does solve these things more than any general or hero. So we participate the best we can.
ONce we learn from history we must act with depth. Not an easy task but a clearly hindu one, where Krishna says to us - you speak like a wise one but are not. And upon revealing himself to Arjuna, Krishna does not end the gita but goes on to describe how the world is so that Arjuna and we can also operate in the world. I heard a news commentary on the Protestant success in the world based on Max Weber’s idea tha work as divine is a protestant ethic. (not to mention that he was reading gita et al) Hindus have known this for ever, the protestants claim it as their history and can because we don’t. But when a hindu gets up we tear him or her down - he’s trying to be a guru, he’s not so special, …
Infighting is good for self discovery,but then action is called for - not to destroy evil, but to alleviate the suffering in the whole of creation.
Thanks for spreading the news.
hariaum
November 8th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
I agree with Dipak’s recommendations. He suggest you read first the English translations of Bhagwat Gita, Upanisad and some books of Swami Vivekananda. You will get real Hinduism.
Swami Viviekananda was a spiritual teacher of the first degree and the Gita is the most influential sacred text on the battle between the human and divine self. At the very core of most religions is universal truth and it is this universal truth that unites each and everyone. Unity and oneness is the goal, to purify your soul and unite with the Spirit, to become one with Brahman.
Your article is excellent as you soul search and seek you shall find. Remember all that you need is within and your soul is the lamp that lights the way. A majority of the new age is based upon Hindu principles so you a lot less alone then you think. It is true that to come into oneness one, must fly free without labels, so to this extent there is truth in your parents words. However, I also appreciate that for you at this point of your life, you are not only seeking religion but also your own roots….People have a need to belong but when they heal their needs this is no longer a necessity.
Lotus Feet
November 16th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Dear Nidhi,
Very recently I started taking interest in our religion, culture and heritage. I am glad that there are people who are tirelessly trying to propogate knowledge about this beautiful religion.
Its always heartening to know that we have our roots in Sanatana Dharma
Now, I am planning to learn sanskrit (the eternal language, the language of gods).
The following is a hymn from a upanishad.
OM Asatoma sadgamaya, tamasoma jyotirgamaya, mrityorma amritangamaya,
OM shanti, shanti, shanti.
November 17th, 2006 at 2:15 am
Too confusing folks. Too verbose. We have made this faith too complex. We have drifted from the core. The student wants simplicity and fire. Overall Keep it simple. Read the Rik Veda
a sample follows
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01001.htm
feel its passion. Its unbridled quest for strength. I was taught Hinduism from a child. I did not find it until I read the Rik Veda (News folks - No Sanskrit required - keep it simple)
Importantly parents need to say to their children this “Take Pride young one. Live well knowing that you are of stock that always has been this. No sword, coercion, or disrespect has weakened you. Encirlced for centuries and with fifth columnists among us we still stand proud with global presence. This is your stock Aryawarth”
This. This is simple. Or Tru Blue Hindu! As wide the sky.
The young need the plus points on this faith eg
- We dont have haram & halal
- We dont have to pray x times / day. Or every friday
- We dont need to wear little caps or wraps
- Our women can dress in a nice bikini top and a skirt (ain’t that the prettiest thing)
- We can eat what we want - Anything
- We and indulge in a Cold Beer or A Fine scotch whisky
- We can enjoy a nice wild boar salami
- A fine ham sandwich
- There is no heaven and hell for us. You can’t kill a Hindu cos he gets re-incarnated. The Aryawarth is not scared into faith eg. “pray to god lest ye be cast into eternal damnation sinner” This is BS. No God can be that cruel that he would see someone in enternal damnation. Heck if there is a Faith out there that says so then - Methinks tis time to flee said faith!
In summary. The Bhramins have made this faith confusing - eg. Raj Sic, Tam Sic, I’m sic etc. Too much garbage. Sell the good points folks.
Hindu - Always has been always will be. And We have no shackles!
Veda Shakti!
Pandit Deeno Sharma
PS Some know me as Pandit Bud (The Weiser) Bhramin
PS Has anyone seen my chalice of Soma?
I know I jest folks but this ain’t a heavy faith. What I have said is true.
November 18th, 2006 at 6:48 pm
Dear Nidhi,
Since reading your article, i am experiencing a feeling of relief, as i can relate to your situation completely. I am 14, and i live in Harrow, not far from Slough yet our Hindu population is almost the same as the Christians. My problem is that despite there being a considerable number of Hindus, not many of them know exactly what the religion involves. To most Hindus of my age, Hinduism is celebrating Diwali and going to Garba with your friends. This is extremely disappointing, because there is no-one correcting this trait in the teenagers. I do agree that Hinduism is being shown down by other religions, but if the Hindus themselves are not sure of their own beliefs then what more of other people’s opinions of them? Almost everyone i have come across has the idea that Hindus are idol-worshippers that believe in many Gods, yet this is completely wrong! It isn’t their fault though, because this is what being taught in schools everywhere, from when a child first starts learning RE in primary school, till High school where GCSE RE is taught. I myself have chosen Religious Studies as a subject for GCSE yet i haven’t chosen Hinduism as an option in my course as i know, everything i will have to know for my exam is completely irrelevant to the actual Hindu religion. It is really infuriating to see other friends taking their own religions as an option because ‘I know everything about Islam already’, ‘I’m a definite A* in Christianity’, well so would i be, if they got their facts right! I want to write an exam to prove my knowledge of HINDUISM not that ganesh is an elephant and he is lucky!!
Sorry, i went a bit OTT over there, but the point is, i’m glad i’m not the only one, and also, something should be done about it.
January 13th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
i too was born in slough and experienced the same feeling of isolation that you went through.i came from a mixed hindu/sikh family but the events in india in 1984 after the storming of the golden temple and the hostility i experinced from my sikh friends made me take a long look at who iwas.my parents paid little attention to the dharma untill their retirement.this is a mistake i have tried to avoid making with my own children.it seems hindus are scared to profess their faith.
January 17th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Ok ok I hear all you young folks… you are looking for a place to belong and be part of something, a place where Hinduism is taught as it should be and where you are proud and strong in body and mind.
Well let me introduce to the concept of the “300″ — my mate Deeno Sharma and I are putting together a band, a club if you will, in which the Rig Veda - the core of Hinduism will be taught and from that you will have classes in mind and body strengthening using ancient Hindu sciences and martial and philosophical arts…
you will grow to be supperior in intellect, body and mind…
all you have to do is say “aye I am interested” and we will send you a link down the line…
January 17th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
well written noidhi,
so proud to see some hindu girl standing up for our heritage and be proud of our religion.
y=wish you the best of discovery and of beautiful life.
yours sincerely
avatar.
April 1st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Hi Nidhi,
A well written article that clearly expresses the frustration of a well-to-do Hindu who grows up under a hypnotised social environment - where he does not not know who his predators are. Awareness is the way to go and I’m glad you have taken it up as a challenge to get this through the hundreds of thousands of people whose only contribution to Hinduism is watching soaps! In short, welcome aboard.
As for “pairamblr” and others that I picked up, I would like to state this:
: That’s a nice statement -would like it’s source though. A true hindu would definitely appreciate the value of the statement and hence would not hesitate giving a fair chance to other religions**. The catch though is not all religions have the concept of Dharma - or having a “live or let live” attitude. All Indic religions are based on the bedrock called Dharma.
Nidhi is also right in her assertion on the same point.
My assessment of the situation is young Hindus get too influenced by philosophy than by history and hence generalise everything into stereotypes. I advocate a neophyte to get acclimatised with the history first and then with the Hindu philosophy. That will certainly preach proportion - in other words, the essence of Dharma. While we Hindus have a penchant for the pleasanter aspects of life, it is also equally important to know what to avoid.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:22 am
This is a very interesting article to read. What I found most interesting is that I too experienced most of the feelings you have described while growing up. The main difference is that you could replace the word Hindu with Sikh. I have gone through growing up in the UK, with people asking me are you a Hindu or a Muslim? This happened despite the fact that I wear a turban. The answer to these types of questions is that we all need to educate each other in our beliefs.
Unlike most major religions in the world, the Sikhs are minority communities in all countries in the world, even in India, where they form only 2 percent of the population.
Understanding one another can only lead to increased awareness and I think we need more community groups established that are representative of all their community members.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
There is urgent need to create an umbrella organisation of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains. In Nidhi’s article, it seems Sikhs are depicted as competing with Hindus, the fact is both are brotherly.
Together, we MUST come.
September 16th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Yash, please read the article and comments linked below:
http://thehinduvoice.com/blog/2007/07/08/1984-the-future-of-hindu-sikh-relations/
September 26th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
I read through the whole story and at the end of it , I thought a philosophy like Hinduism will always be under attack from ideological religions. Therefore, Hinduism and its followers have become isalmised in a way simply becoz of the fact that survival needs struggle and resistnace . And you can not fight barbarians of religion with words of philosophy most of the time; you must know how to defend yourself. Having said that, I would like to say that Hinduiam should never become an ideology like other judeo-christian religions. Its main strenght as a philosophy is its openess to criticism and reason. At the same time, barbaians of other religion must be taught an intellectual lesson, for they are proud of inteelctual hypocrisy and blind faith which should a burden on the open society.
March 9th, 2008 at 2:56 am
free car quote…
Excellent post. Keep it up!…
April 8th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Hi Nidhi,
I understand where you are coming from. I like the idea of an ‘intellectual warrior’ too. So, I decided to take up a Religious Studies Degree to look into other religions and Hinduism. I even started off a Hindu Society at my university which has around 100 members. Theres so much you can do, get out there and look for options and see which ones you can take.
All the best,
Shyam
April 10th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Guys stop blaming the parents. Do you know how hard most Hindu parents work to provide a roof over their children’s heads? My own parents used to do 14-16 hour shifts a day.
If kids really want to learn about hinduism then there’s nothing stopping them from researching on the net or going to the library. Many of the Hindu/Sikh owned gift stores in asian areas also sell english translations of Hanuman Chalisa so there is really no excuse for ignorance.
July 4th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Hindus definitely to be more assertive and teachings and protecting their religion. Once again, Hindus have allowed invaders to steal and distort our religion. Simply Look at what is “yoga” today and who is a “yoga teacher!”
So far, many Hindus just do not care. When are you going to change?
Swami Param
Dharma Yoga Ashram (Classical Yoga Hindu Academy)
July 6th, 2008 at 9:03 am
For Swami Param, Hinduism means yoga. ( may be that is the way I understand or misunderstand him)
Sometimes I wonder, if Swami Param has spent some time to look at the
word ‘ yoga ‘ and what different meanings this word has.
Yoga is used in so many verses in Gita, and almost in all other scriptures.
In Sanat Sujatiya, which is part of MahaBharata, you come across
a terms ‘ bhoga yoga ‘.
I wonder what will be Swami Param’s interpretation to this yoga. !!!
If ever there is distortion, it is caused by our limited knowledge, our ignorance, our inability to analyze and understand the rationality and logic of the word that is used in our scriptures. So the only way one can face the challenge of this distortion is by learning, gaining knowledge.
By the way, gaining knowledge does not mean book knowledge as we used to learn by heart lessons in school to score good marks in the examinations. Gaining means understanding and one who understands will be a knowledgeable one and such a person will use the knowledge that he has gained for making this very life a beautiful one - for him and for every one with whom he has to live / relate.
cheers
July 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
http://www.flickr.com/groups/373327@N24/discuss/72157600649390255/
above link gives a bird’s eye view on ” what is Yoga”.
I thought it fit to post it here since, may be Swami Param may have different views on this topic. that will give an opportunity to us in bettering our understanding of Sw Params’ view and what others say on this.
enjoy
cheers
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 am
Inspiring,
hats off to you
March 18th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
I’m very glad to read this post. Your story is similar to my story. During my childhood I had pure contempt and hatred for Hinduism. I though it was a stupid, meaningless religion. I was really ashamed of hinduism and I would dream of converting to some other religion. I think the main reason for this was - my parents were blind believers. They hardly know anything about the philosophy or spiritual aspects of Hinduism. Infact this is true for most hindus I know. They don’t care about philosophical or spiritual aspects. They are more interested in religious, rituals, superstitions and mythological aspects. Without spirituality and philosophy no religion can insipre intellectual beings. Only when I started reading about the teachings of Hinduism specially bhagwat geets, upanishads, the law of karma, reincarnation I realized that hinduism is a great religion and it’s teachings make perfect sense. Hinduism is a mature religion with so much tolerance and understanding that western religion like Judaism , Islam, Christianity look childish.
I think every hindu has to spend more time understanding spiritual, philosophical teachings of hinduism and stop spening too much time of rituals, superstions and mythology. That is they only way Hinduism can surivive. It’s high time hindus wake up and learn what their religion teaches