Biggest Hindu temple in Europe opens in West Midlands
The five-day opening ceremony of the largest Hindu Temple in UK took place from the 23rd August 2006. More than 10,000 devotees visited the Shri Venkateswara (Balaji) temple in Tividale (near Birmingham, West Midlands) in the opening week alone. It is designed as a replica of the famous Tirupati-Tirumala temple in the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh, one of the most revered Hindu shrines in the world. The idea of creating a replica of the Tirupati-Tirumala temple was first conceived over 30 years ago, in 1974, by a small group of Hindus in Birmingham. With steel determination the group overcame many hurdles, including financial problems verging on bankruptcy and stiff local opposition.
September 25th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
This is a total waste of money. It would be better to construct a library on Hinduism and Indian history, concert halls showing Indian theatre, music and songs. Also, It can open a hostel for homeless people.
Buiilding temples which serves no purpose is not Hinduism, but very much opposed to it.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:19 am
Must disagree with Dipak,
Mandirs facilitate history, theatre, music etc.
Mandirs are the centers that secured Hinduism in places like Mauritius, not libraries!
Has the creation of libraries lead to wider-spread literacy? Maybe not…
If education(in this case religious) is given 1st, then libraries can follow…
September 27th, 2006 at 9:20 am
Question……………
Is this temple larger than the one in Neasden??
September 28th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Congratulations to the Visionaries who pioneered the beautifull Hindi temple in Mother England.It was Lord Mccaully,who in 1836 ,British Parliament,was sick with envy who had wanted to destroy the Indian culture and make the Indians feel inferior so that they denegrate all that was indian and worship all that was English.i.e Sun,sex,sea,sin and slaughter and subjugation of the weaker races and peoples of the world.
Indeed,if Hindus can educate the masses and share thier rich history,Sanskrit language,thier true faiths and beliefs and promote the learning of Vedas and have stage plays of Mahabharat,Ramayans, then the world would be a better place.
September 28th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Every Hindu must be proud to be HINDU.Today most of us have lost the spirit of hinduism and what we see is only the moving sceletons there is no sole in it.I live in India and has moved around the world and deeply distressed to find myself living in India as Hindu.Hinduism is a very great religion barring its defects imlimentation as caste based system in today’s context Which is mostly being used to eliminate Hinduism from World.I wish it does not appen so.Indonesia,Afganistan,Malaysia are examples to reveiw.The present day post independence secular idea is in fact misgiving and more and hindues must learn Siritual Hinduism whih is Universal and is not a religion like other religions formed by individuals but it is for every one,including those who are in so called limited boundaries of other religions.We must not let it die.Mandirs are the symbolic places of worships and let the cultural and siritual community devlopments,including libraries,arts,schools etc develope side by side….I supoort any move to with held Hindu value of life.
September 30th, 2006 at 4:05 am
1. While Dipikaji’s perception says one thing, some one else may have a different perception and it is better for us to hear what every one has got to say and agree to disagree as long as the agreement or disagreement does not cause violence - physical and mental.
2. Temple is a place where people meet and any gathering has its benefits since there is going to be communication taking place and communication is also a medium thru which knowledge gets transferred from one to the other. This is in SANSKRIT called SATSANG.
3. Besides the prayer and rituals etc Temples could be a place to promote education. This is one thing our temple trustees need to look into.
4. As we grow up in age - from childhood to youth to married to family with children to elderly age to lonley old to…..There is a similar growth in our level of knowledge…as a child we pick up somethings from parents…then from the school ..then from the college..then from employer/employee…etc ….so also we pickup a few rituals from the people around, then from the priest, then from the teaching swamijis..then on to meditation, contemplation..etc…
5. We pray to the God to help us satisfy our desires…..this is early stages of our life. once a few desires are satisfied, then people start looking for more…
and sometimes the ones who look for more sees that the VYVAHARIKA ( TRANSACTIONAL ) desires are not making one happy for long- the happiness one get is only momentary…lasts only for a few seconds…
and so one start looking for happiness which can last long..
and HIS/HER - good KARMA of ealier birth helps and channelise HIM/HER towards the study of VEDANTA..
Once a person is in this track, then the life is a beauty…to enjoy…one gets strength to face anything…and those blessed people find that there is no difference between PAIN AND PLEASURE, no hurts no guilts, no ommissions, no commissions…
+++++++++++
I am also only a student who is trying to understand all these…
I am not a teacher but a student
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So temples are also important - but utlising them is upto us. If we find the trustees are not seriously interested, then it is for us to request the trustees to see that SATSANGs are planned and work towards that.
namaskaram
September 30th, 2006 at 6:18 am
Hinduism in India was reduced to Sati, Child marriage, extreme superstitions and mindless caste system by the Temples and those who patronized those temples, the feudal lords and their priest class, who even never allowed the Hindus to read the religious books or to know which books to read. Only now we know what these priests used to say are nothing but falsehood, nothing to do with Hinduism.
Sri Krishna said clearly in Bhagwat Gita, by performing Pujas, burning ghees or singing a song, one cannot reach the Brahman, who cannot be described by any idol, thus idol worship is meaningless according to sri Krisna. He also said that those who boost up themselves by building temples ( read Ch 18 of Bhgawat Gita) hates Sri Krishna, because he accepts even a dry leaf or a drop of water from a true devotee. A true follower of Hindu religion should follow Bhagwat Gita, which has reformed Hinduism.
There are only two ways to reach Brahman, according to Sri Krishna: the way of pure selfless work for the benefits of others and the way of knowledge.
Thus, temples may serve some GURU Maharaj who would create Rolex from his hair, or some BJP politicvians or Hindutva people, but these are irrelevant for The Hinduism.
Also, Hindus in UK must learn that by building a huge temple does not create any good feelings of the host community. The huge Mosque in the Regent’s Park has not created any admirations but hostilities for the Muslim religion. Similarly these temples in Neasden of the Gujaratis or temple in Birmingham for the Tamil-Telegus only create extreme hostility of the host community towards the Hindus.
The host community does not know anything about Hindu religion or the Indian civilization. The Hindu community in the UK suffers from inferiority complex as a result of the ignorance of the host community.
Thus, rather than building a temple it is essential to spread the knowledge about Hindu religion and Indian civilization.
Public Library, community centre, concert halls to demonstrtate Indian culture, and help for the poor of the Host community would serve the real purpose of gaining respect for the Hindu religion.
Constructions of massive temple with demon like idols and clapping hands for a Bhajan along with some business deals are not Hinduism.
September 30th, 2006 at 11:38 am
Dipikaji is right and also not right.
1. She complains about ” Idol ” worship and quotes Bhagavat Gita.
2. Then she jumps to Karma and Knowledge to ” REACH ” BRAHMAN as per Krishna in Gita
3.Hinduism reduced to extreme superstition, child marriage, sati and mindless cast system…feudal lords and priest class…
4. Temples may serve some Gurumaharaj or BJP etc..
5. building temples does not create a good feeling in the host community.
6.huge mosque has created hostilities towards muslim community
7. Host community does not know anything about Hindu religion and Indian culture
8. Hindus are having inferiority complex
9.spread the civilisation and knowledge…rather than build temples
10.helping poor…will generate good will…etc.
Dipikaji…too many points in one short note. Will try to reply with my limited knowledge as I am only a student. There will be points which are debatable, but it is worth looking at the debatable points and the logic and reasonings….if there are any.
Dipikaji has written her views very well. For a minute, will Dipikaji think how many years it took for her to be able to read, write and communicate effectively in English? 10 years alteast? That also going to a school, under the guidance of different teachers who taught her first the early lessons, then the grammer, then the literature etc…every teacher was a specialist in his work..right?
Now for a moment think….how much time has she spent to read, understand etc Gita? Dipikaji though would have read Gita, has not been able to understand it well enough- probably - ( i am not sure) because she had no teacher. A teacher is one who teaches and for teaching one need to be an expert and one becomes an expert when one spends time in studying, assimilating etc..
For one word there are so many meanings, and only a person who has studied the subject under proper guidance can know and then explain the inticacies of the point that is being discussed. I think this makes clear why we need teachers to teach us.
Befor 10years, the even TV was not a regular thing in every home. Also, almost half the population had to wrok hard to earn their living. Transport and communication was not as easy as it is today. With all these difficult situation, and the availability of less number of teachers and need to cover a wide area, naturally, less number of people knew the beauty and intricacies of HINDUISM.
In Gita Krishna also talks of Saguna and Nirguna …I wonder if Dipikaji has understood this ? If so, probably the word ” idol” would not have occured to Dipikaji. { by the way, if you would like to know….there is no Idol worship in Hinduism…for one who has understood Hinduism., THERE IS ONLY GOD AND NOTHING BUT GOD… so it is the invoked God that is worshipped. this is to be understood and can be understood if only one studies VEDANTA.
Now Dipikaji also talks of Krishna and BRAHMAN. What is Brahman? Who is Krishna? it will be interesting to know what is understood of these two terms.
Dipikaji says that …there are only two ways to reach BRAHMAN…
I am afraid, there is no way to reach BRAHMAN…SINCE THERE IS ONLY BRAHMAN….But the cover of our IGNORANCE IS SO THINK THAT IT TAKES TIME AND GUIDANCE FROM SOME TEACHER TO SLOWLY REMOVE THE LAYERS, STEP BY STEP.
Dipikaji, since you know something about Hinduism, you are already on track and some more effort will help in knowing better, knowing more.
And once we start knowing more, then the complex or ego etc slowly starts vanishing in the thin air.
Dipikaji talks about Hinduism reduced to sati etc… Kindly calculate 80% of almost 1 billion population are Hindus. Do you have any statistics on how many satis and how many child marriages etc taking place in a year in India? And even that limited number which is dwindling, is because of less education in those areas. In last 50 years any one who knows India with figures and facts will not be able to say anything like what Dipikaji has said. Remember, no one is denying the existance of that age old customs of some section of people in certain areas…and that is but diminishing.
with the TV and media now the pace of education has improved and sure, it will come down to very low levels.
I do not wish to get into a discussion on politics. But for Dipikajis information, there is a book written by Dr K M Munish published by Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan may be at the time of independance or before..(this book may not be available in print =- )…if you wish i have a scanned photocopy available and can email you or any one. it is abt 35kb. You will know the India that was when british came to India and the changes that was forced on India…i am not ref to politics, but our industry, commerce etc. Since many do not know about these, what can any one do if one thinks that India is in shambles? Knowing these facts might take people who are having inferiority complex. We have no such complexes…neither inferiority nor superiority.
Now comes the statement on spreading of Indian culture and Hinduism. How will community centre, halls, art galleries etc help spread the culture?
What activity will be there and what segment of community will attend functions there which will make them aware of Indian culture and Hinduism? A little detailed view with examples, justification might help for others to look into this.
However, Dipikaji should be wonderstruck when she knows that there are only something like 70,000 police stations in a country like India? ( I may be wrong, but this is what i read). And yet there is all the activity taking place without too much of problems. How and why? Because Hinduism is one where every one is repsected. Unfortunately when we talk of the cast today, we forget that India had a society at that time which was not a competition based one. A child of teacher took to the profession of teaching, a child of trader took to the profession of trade, etc… And to differentiate a person from the other, like how many Dipika s will be there and how to identify one from the rest?….that Dipika who is in london, who writes on Hindu voice , the one who travels by metro at 10 am everyday from…, who wear a specs…who works in ….
Now if that has turned to very bad situation because of some section of people, then how can we blame the Hinduism for that?
Finally helping poor is very good. I think that is part of the activity in everywhere.
By the way, i would like to inform all the readers here, that every year hundreds of people from west and Japan visit India and spend months and sometimes years studying SANSKRIT, studying VEDANTA, UPANISHADS etc and then they go back to their countries . This i write becaue I have been seeing myself very many in number. If any one is interested in serious study then we can make suggestions, give info etc.
Also, it is likely to be a news for many of us Indians in UK that both UK and Japan has joined hands and opened an institution in UK - something like an INFORMATION BANK - where thousands of manuscipts are saved, stored, and translated from sanskrit to english, researched etc. Hundreds of Sanskrit teachers from India do this job for this institution and all that info will be available for any country for a price….and may be even India may have to pay to get what is there.
Hinduism is not going to die since it is simply based on commonsesne and Dharma. Every one is a HINDU until he refuses to be one. He can believe or he need not believe…but Ultimately he need to know that THERE IS NOTHING BUT BRAHMAN.
Eashwara is not a matter of believing, but a matter of understanding. All this needs some time and effort and sure guidance from some learned people. Once a person starts , then it will go on and on…how many births it will take for one to understand THERE IS NOTHING BUT BRHAMAN one cannot say, but the process is continuous…what we learn today, will remain dorman, until another human birth takesplace …depending on the KARMA situation..
any one who is interested to know more can go to search and see ‘ HINDUISM or ADVAITA etc..
also, one can visit www.arshavidya.org ….or search ” arshavidya” and you will get many sites to look thru. All these sites are free and only doing a great job on educating people who are interested.
pairamblr@yahoo.com
October 1st, 2006 at 4:33 am
Parambirji,
It seems to me that you have not read Bhagwat Gita, please read.
1) Brahman, ( in exact Sanskrit Bromhon) is the name of the supreme God in Hindu religion; Krishna is the reincarnation of Brahman, as Krishna said in The Bhagwat Gita)
2) Hindu religion until 19th century was degenerated because of many reason: colonial occupations by Arab, Turks, Mongol and British; priest class; feudalism etc etc. It took many social reformers like Raja Rammohan Roy, Swami Vevikananda and many others to remove social evils like Sati, inhuman treatments for the untouchables, promotions of prostitutions in the Devdasi system in South India and so on.
Unfortunately BJP-Hindutva people are trying to take back India to the days before 19th century by promoting a degerated version of Hinduism which they call Hindutva.
3) Constructions of massive temples and spending millions for communal pujas in India, where at least 70 percent of people have to live with less than $2 a day is a crime, clearly said by Sri Krishna in Bhagwat Gita.
4) Hinduism is a systematic religion, it is not just a jungle of various practices and beliefs and ways of life. That is what the Western observers of Hindu religion says, because they do not want to recognize Hinduism as a religion.
5) To understand Hinduism You do not need any Guru Maharaj, read the books: Bhagwat Gita, Upanisad, Vedas.
Interpretations made by these Guru Maharajs have so far confused the Hindus and those interested in Hinduism. Read the original, you can understand what I am taliking about.
October 1st, 2006 at 4:50 am
Pirambirji,
In Ch 3, verse 3 onwards Sri Krishna said there are two roads of perfection Gana Yoga and Karma Yoga, in order to reach Brahman.
If you refuse to accept Bhagwat Gita, you cannot be a Hindu.
Those who are wasting money building massive temples, spending millions on daughter’s weddings, giving millions to London Zoo to buy Knighthood or Lordship are not Hindus, but fit very well to the description of the peoples given in Ch 16 of Bhagwat Gita.
Sri Krishna said exactly these for them:
” In their haughtiness of vain glory, drunk with the pride of their wealth, they offer their wrong sacrifices for ostentation, against divine law” ( Verse 17, Ch 16)
October 1st, 2006 at 8:03 am
Dipikaji,
what is Brahman?? would u mind to explain please? if you can kindly please??
thks
October 1st, 2006 at 11:03 am
Dipak
What about Bhakti Yog?
And the ‘navda bhakti’ according to Bhagavat Puran?
Surely you can’t accept the Gita and reject the puran??
October 1st, 2006 at 1:19 pm
Brahman is according to Hindu religion, as written in Rig Veda is the name of The God.
” Brahman is the Supreme, the Eternal. Atman is his spirit in man” ( Bhagwat Gita, Ch 8 Verse 3)
Hinduism does not accept more than one God.
“I am the one source of all” ( Bhagwat Gita, Ch10, Verse
Brahman ” beginingless, supreme; beyond what is and beyond what is not.
… He is beyond all and yet he supports all. He is beyond the world of matter and yet he has joy in this world.”
“He is invisible; he cannot be seen. He is far and he is near, he moves and he moves not. He is within all and he is outside all. He supports all beings; from him comes destruction and from him comes creation. He is the light of all lights which shines beyond all darkness. It is vision, the end of vision, to be reached by vision, dwelling in the heart of all” ( Bhagwat Gita, Ch 13, Verse 12-17)
October 1st, 2006 at 1:50 pm
Purans, Ramayana, Mahabharat are the history of ancient India mixed with mythology, these are not exact scriptures. Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is not the New Testament. Torah is not the Old Testament. Accounts of Al-Beruni is not Islam. Shahanamah is not Zorastrian religion.
There are Purans written even in the 12th century describing Muslim invasion of India. Purans should be taken with care. A lot of the Purans were rewritten many times by the Priest class to suit their self-interests. These should not be taken for granted.
Bhakti Yoga means someone who is a practicing devotee of Krishna or The Brahman. In Bhagwat Gita a devotee is defined as:
” A man free from the chains of self attachments, free from his lower ‘I am’; who has determination and perseverance and whose inner peace is beyond victory or defeat, such a man has pure Sattva. ” ( Ch 18, Verse 26).
” When work is done as sacred work, unselfishly, with a peaceful mind, without lust or hate, with no desire for reward, then the work is pure”( Ch18, Verse 23)
“He who works for me, who loves me, whose End Supreme Iam, free from attachment to all things and with love for all creation, he in truth comes unto me”.
This is a real devotee or Vakta. He who can perform accordingly is performing Vakti Yoga, which does not mean giving up Gana Yoga and Karma Yoga but “should be done in the freedom of a pure offering, and without expectation of a reward”( Ch18, Verse 6)
One must not abandon works of Gana Yoga and Karma Yoga and say that ‘I am performing Vakti’, because Krishna said, ” It is not right to leave undone the holy work which ought to be done. Such a surrender of action would be a delusion of darkness”( Ch18, Verse 7)
Thus, a devotee can not abandon work. Krishna said, ” In the bonds of works I am free because in them I am free from desires. The man who can see this truth, in his work he finds his freedom” ( Ch4, Verse 14)
October 1st, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Honestly, it is so nice to read what you have quoted. It is so nice to see that you are takins so much pains to read and so also understand. very good.
Now if you will not get angry, I have one or two questions. The questions are only to look at our understanding….not to test you…( as a matter of fact VEDANTA KNOWLEDGE IS NOT MEANT FOR OTHERS…BUT FOR SELF..meaning, what I learn is for me and not to advice others…so this discussion is not advice, but a process of learning…like we discuss in school or college with our co students which help us in better understanding)
Question 1. If you equate Brahman with Krishna, what about Vishnu or Shiva etc….?
Question 2. how is it possible to be free from attachments?
question 3. Surrender i can understand, knowledge i can understand, but when i perform some action, i should not expect a reward for that…that is difficult to understand since any action has a result !! Only thing that the result will be one out of the four- viz: as expected, more than exprected, less than expected, totally unexptected. How is it possible not to expect a result - because every one is doing some action for some result??
Kindly do not get angry - the questions are asked only to make us anlayse our understanding and for futher study.
October 17th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
Q1: What About Vishnu, Shiva etc?
Answer:
Vishnu or Shiva are not vedic deities, they are not mentioned in the Upanisad. They are Puranic detities. I could not find any mention of Vishnu either in the Bhagwat Gita.
As I have said earlier, Hindus should consider only the three sets of books, Vedas, Upanisad, bhagwat Gita are the holy books. Purans are chronicles of ancient India with mixtures of mythology; these are not religion but popular faith.
Krisna has revised Hindu religion by saying that performing Vedic rituals or fastings or worshiping other Gods one cannot reach Bharhman.
Q2) How is it possible to be free from attachments?
answer: It takes many years perhaps many births to get a mind which is not attached to anything material. One need to perform mental controls or Yoga. Krishna said that a true devotee should suffer and enjoy for Brahman not for himself. A pure work is work done without any desire, wrath, greed, lust or vengence, but because that work is important and should be done. That type of work is sacrifice of a devotee for the Brahman.
Q3) Should I not expect a reward?
answer: If you expect reward, it is impure work, it is not a sacrifice for the Brahman. Work done for the rewards is called Rajasic; work left incomplete or not done at all or meant to harm someone is called Tamasic. Both Rajasic and Tamasic works are unfit for sacrifice. Only a work done with pure mind with no desires, is called Sattic or fit as the sacrifice for the Brahman.
Oner should do the work if the work is important and can benefit the society and others. If that would mean destruction even then one should not leave the work undone. Results should be left for Krishna to decide. Even if there is no result complete work is better than any incomplete work.
Work done with the pure mind which is without greed, lust or anger creates credits. By accumulating credits one can improve one’s soul for the perfection. That is the only result one should expect.
October 18th, 2006 at 4:32 am
The devas and asuras placed Meru into the ocean onto the back of Narayana, wrapped it with ananta and chruned. As they churned the udgita was sung. and the greatest treasure of all, the amrit of the realized soul was brought out (plus some nasty stuff).
Who was hindu? who wasn’t hindu? We are using the word as a category. Fairly so. But categories are structures we create and rest upon the ignorance that clouds the not this not this of TatSat. But we need the categories to churn our mind-body-ego complex to create amrit.
If you watch the force of civilization, the four desires drive history: Kama, Artha, Gyana, and Moksha. Naturally, beings driven by such wishes will drive their hisotry towards such wishes. These are the chords of the udgita.
What does this have to do with the aobve discussion?
Most of reality is the ocean. A few pieces (but very important) are the few realized souls. How do they co-exist? Some need no vedas, not puranas, no shastras… - no smriti, no shruti. These are wonderful. Some need the vedas, the purans… to guide them to a higher plane. Some need any source of knowledge (Ved) to start the search. Some - a woman abused, raped, tortured, and abandoned by her society - need any glimmer of light, even a Koran. Now we gaze upon our solar dynasty and are proud of it. Someone else worships a crescent moon - unable to bare the sun. How will we churn the ocean?
The backbone of all truth is Sat. But we place a structure on sat that we can operate in it. We create words, families, societies… to operate on Sat to act, to attain. These structures take on a life of their own. They become corrupted, enriched, empowered, all those adjectives usually held for individuals. But without those structures society collapses and the realized soul can not be realized. Thus, fundemental to all of this is the householder who pursue wealth and kam and gyana and in doing so builds families, centers for learning, centers of culture, centers of worship, of beauty, of memory - all of reality. And the other stages enjoy them.
We must spread gyana, bhakti, and rajas because these are bases on which the moksha is understood by the biological mind. Thus we write books, we build temples, we create scholarships, - in effect we give up natual freedom to gain social freedom to acquire spiritual freedom.
Some are ready for the advaita Krishna, some for the dvaita Krishna, some for only a candle to light their way. All this is Perfection from perfection.
Yes corruption occurs and will occur. If it was easy, then the asuras and devas would all be drunk on that facile amrit and the churning would stop.
hariaum
October 19th, 2006 at 5:25 am
Navin’s ideas are his own philosophy but these have nothing to do with Hinduism. One canot have the liberty to describe his/her religion in the way one wants. In that case there will be thousands of opinions on the same religion.
BBC and the Christian churches say always that Hinduism is not a religion, but a hotch-potch of many different ideas, many different gods, there is no central theme and there is no religious books for the Hindus. The reason is most Hindus do not read any of the religious books but interprete Hinduism in the way he/she likes as Navin did.
October 19th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
I’ve been called by christians the devil. When LDS members or other christians argue with me they often say the sme thing Dipak did - it’s a philosophy not a religion. I’m not sure if you’re saying this is a wrong interpretation. Is there a better one? Who speaks for God? I certainly haven’t read all the scriptures. Who has? (remember some of the Vedas are said to heve been lost) Every human I’ve ever met has interpreted God. Now am I to take the BBC and chirstians word on what a religion is?
Are you not interpreting the scriptures and history? Or are you afraid to bring the intellect given to you by god to bear on the data in front of you? The Nazis felt they were being christian. Now the christians say the Nazis were not christians. Who speaks for truth?
A hierarchical instituion demands an authority and a chain of command. It is true that my relationship with god has no such chain of command but a love, admiration, and seeking for the supreme truth. If that is not good enough for being a hindu, well, then I am not committed to a name to worship. You can define hinduism as name worshipers and book worshipers; then truely I am not your kind of Hindu.
It is good to know, though, that Dipak knows what is Hindu and what is not. Perhaps he has been authorized by some agency to speak on its behalf. Is there a certification course that I can take?
hari aum (or am I allowed to use that phrase?)
October 20th, 2006 at 8:54 am
Navin, the authority for the Hindus are the three sets of holy books: Vedas, Upanisad, Bhagwat Gita.
I am not interpreting but quoting to say that a liberal attitude towards Hindu religion is not what is prescribed. Hinduism is not just many contradictory ideas, as the BBC and the Christians say. It has set discipline and its own philosophy, wrtiiten down so that there cannot be many different interpretations.
From your own philosophy, you have defended Rajasic actions, which are not prescribed in the Bhagwat Gita or Upanisad, but considered to be impure according to Hinduism.
Temple constructions lead to creation of human authority and corruptions of religion, as we have seen for the thousands of years in India. That should not be repeated in Britain as well.
It is better to educate the British what Hinduism really is, as they receive continuous propaganda against Hinduism from the BBC and the Churches and now Mosques. Temples cannot serve that purpose.
October 20th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Can you define religion?
If all you do is parrot what a book says, is that good religion or do you need to interpert what it says into your life?
Where does the Gita say don’t build temples - are you not intepreting when you say that.?
What is your definition of “it is better…”
Is it not a western construct to separate religion and philosophy?
who is pure?
You must interpret the world, the scriptures, and yourself. If you think you know, you know not. The Gita itself says to get past the scriptures.
Indeed I know I am talking about hinduism in a different way then many have before. But the many who have gone before are also out interpreting things in the way they want to (excluding untouchables, women…). And frankly, I think I am more Hindu then many of the Indian Hindus I’ve met - especially as many haven’t even read the gita or ramayan or upanisads or vedas. For a long time I did not say I was a Hindu. This is becuase someone was always there telling me I got it wrong and I really don’t care about a fantastic life of living in mountains meditating on gyana and declaring I am that. So, if you like, call me a non-Hindu. The name I carry is not who I am,nor what I am not.
Now let me explain the rajasic side that repels you. When Arjuna saw Narayana he saw the beauty and the ugliness of the universe there. So you may want to only see the beauty. that is wonderful. Not me. I want the totality of Krishna. I want to see the good and the evil and I want to understand that these are contstructs in my mind. So people get up and say this is religious action, this is bad action, this is good action. I can understand why. But I’ve learnt through Krishna, who has been my guru since the early teens, that I am being silly. What hope does my little cita have of understanding Cit? So I humbly suspect that the universe is right.
Thus the creator made all the harm we see and said it was right. It made all the good we see and said it was right. It is the actor and the field. Not me nor my silly ego sense that says this is good this is not. So the discussions of the last few weeks have dealt with sex. I am not saying that we should all go and have sex with every body. I am saying that Rajas exists and we have to confront it in ourselves and our universe. Those ascetic orders that run away from women are more caught in the trap of rajas than those that pursue sensual pleasures - why? becuase even animals stop heving sex to eat. These ascetics are so afraid of sex that they can’t even eat with women. That is not self control but self deception - it is tamas.
I do not defend rajas, I know it is real. I do not defend tamas, I know it is real. I do not defend satva, I know it is real. If only the satvic are Hindu then Hindus have no future. If rajas leads always to bad things, then the good can not be achieved. If tamas is always bad, then the silence of the sage is evil.
You may find in your nature a desire to teach (in this we would be alike) but some teach the world to deploy atomic detonation and guerrila warfare, others teach how to love. Some have it in their nature to be passionate - some of these are artists that decorate temples, some child abusers. Some have it in their nature to think more than act, some ascetics, some lazy. The Gunas are real. not things to simply quote out of a book. I love books but not that much. To see the reality is not to have to do it all. Our nature guides us but I try very hard not to attach myself to my nature. My nature wants to sit, be on with krishna and cause no harm but my budhi reminds me that everytime I consume a resouce I reduce the recources to others - I harm.
We are all drawn to our own set of gunas, as indeed we all have them each. But my objective is to be above them, detached and renounced. Thus I must see them clearly. Not for book policy but reality. So I do believe that from perfection there is only perfection. I do believe that the diversity of being and non-being are perfect. I don’t want a monoculture, and I try not to want at all.
Now the christians, muslims, and buddhists can not accept this. anything other than their way is simply wrong, deception, or childishness. So their real definition of religion is to be like them. Not surprisingly such an orthodox simplistic view is doomed to fail. THus christians and muslims don’t get along with their own diversity. What do they know of what relgion is?
Vaishnavism is a religion, Shaivism is a religion, Devi worship is a religion. If you want one book, one set of beliefs, one avatar - you’ve got em. The thing that I belong to is a metareligion. It says that the name or book or authority is useful but not the end. it says that all seek through yogas of karma, gyana, bhakti, and rajas. it points to the source of all religions - brahman - and cuts categories and names. If I want to accept only the satvics then I can be a budhist and it doesn’t matter. But I seek all of Krishna. I seek how all paths are Krishna. I call my self a Hindu because hinduism provides a way that has all paths - all 6.3 billion and growing. Here I can embrace the totality of TAT SAT.
Naturally I do not expect anyone else to follow my path. You can call it a philosophy if you want. You can embrace what ever parts of krishna you want. So throw me out of hinduism. The name is irrelevant to my relationship to Krishna. But I would hope you have space enough in your heart and mind to not put boundaries on how Krishna operates in this world. For you see, the real reason for me to be a hindu is not identity, not history, not name, not scripture, not India, but for me to attach to that title is to help act in Krishna for the world to find the way of satva, karma, gyana, rajas, shanti in the service of TAT SAT and thus prevent oursleves from the suffering (and anhillation) we cause. It is not for the books, the tradition, the names but for the future that I call myself hindu.
hariaum
October 22nd, 2006 at 8:17 am
very nice indeed the debate and the points raised by Dipika and Navin.
Now, if i may say something, Rama and Krishna are supposed to be born Hindus…which means the Hinduism has been there even before them. Veda, Vedanta, ( and i think Upanishads form part of Vedanta and so also Gita ) etc are means of Knowledge..They guide us..They tell us what and why…and then leave us to work on that…
I asked about Vishnu Shiva etc just to bring to your notice that it does not make a difference, what name you adopt, it is all same. To understand VISHNU really, one need to know VEDANTA…but mostly, we only recite by heart a prayer without knowing the exact meanings, explanations related to those words etc …
When one works towards understanding of Brahman, one is lead to” AHAM BRAHMASMI”…and TAT TVAM ASI..
While one can repeat these words easily, to understand then needs a lot of learning and learning cannot take place without a good teacher. Now we can not sit on judgement as for who is a good teacher, since , i need a teacher since i do not know something and how can say the person who teaches me is good or not good? i can say, i understood when he taught me or i didnt understand when he taught me. Fine , now if i didnt understand what has been taught or explained to me by one teacher, all that i can go is to go to another teacher. There is nothing wrong in that ..this process continues until i understand ..
Now comes where do i get a teacher?..How do i know some one teachers?
I think, in real terms TEMPLES used to be a place of gathering, where in people could communicate with one antoher and then people with knowledge could communicate to a group etc at a place on a regular basis. In other words, Temples were places of SATSANG. I wonder how could we have such facility if temples are not there? When you go to a Hotel, you know you are going there to buy some food or eat. When you go to a clinic you know you are going there for some teatement or info related to this subject. So also, when you go to a temple, you are going to a place where your mind is getting set to some thinking on the subject of ” religion” in regular terms .
TO FREE FROM ATTACHMENTS:
Actually, it takes only some understanding…what is called ” KNOWLEDGE” of the SELF that is needed to know well about “ATTACHMENT”. Once a person understand that “I” am a role player, slowly the understanding helps in accelerating the myth of attachment. However, the SHRAVANAM, MANANAM, etc help to consolidate the understanding so that some doubts that come up can be cleared. In the transactional life, the attachments remain, but these attachments do not cause the feelings of hurt and guilt, ommissions and commissions…and that is what VEDANTA teaches us when we start the study.
Action and Result: Is there any action without a result? most possibly no.
Any action results in result. Now what is the result, we do not have any control on that. When we see the result is as we desired, then we say ” see I am right” etc.. When we analyse the action and result, no action takes place without expectation of a result and no one performs an action wihout expecting a result. ( some one used to tell us that even Krishan when he played the flute, he expected to have some result of some sounds coming out of that..)
What we are told to understand is that,
When we perform some action, we need to do it with the thought that it is a POOJA and when we perform a pooja, after pooja what we have is prasad …Prasad is from the GOD and we accept it with all respect, devotion etc. Now the beauty of this thinking ( if one is able to do that way) is, if I am able to accept the resulf of my action as prasad, then I am not going to complain; I am not going to feel a guilt or hurt; and think of this psychologically, how the mind of a person becomes strong with this sort of study?
So, when I perform an action, i expect a result. But I also prep are myself that, having performed the action, I leave it to the GOD and accept the result - what ever it be - as a prasada .
And in understanding the result of an action, LAW OF KARMA has a very important role , unfortunately ( or fortunately) we do not know much on this subject…except that, when i perform the action that i am supposed to perform, and when i do not get the result that i would have like to have, then I am inclined to think that ‘ PRARABDA’ is playing some role in that.
We can learn a lot from interaction, and TEMPLE is a place where we meet some what like minded people, who may be interested in such subjects and to continue the study.
By the way, once a person starts understanding Hinduism, then he sees the beauty of it. As a matter of fact, Hinduism - to best of my knowledge- never takes shelter behind a statment from some scriptures…saying that ” in such and such book it is stated like that, so you just accept it “…on the other hand, it asks us to investigate and find out the reason for any thing…and tells us not to accept anything blindly…If we are not able to get an explanation, yet, still work on that and sure we will get it from some one or other.. But the enquiry need to continue.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:09 am
Navin, you claim Krishna is your Guru, but you do not follow Krihna.
You said: “If only the satvic are Hindu then Hindus have no future. If rajas leads always to bad things, then the good can not be achieved. If tamas is always bad, then the silence of the sage is evil.”
If you read Bhagwat Gita, you can see Krihna said Rajasic tendencies always lead to confusions and pain, it cannot lead someone to Brahman.
Tamasic tendencies lead somepne to living hell in this world either in this life or in the next life.
Sattic way of life is the only way for the Hindus. If you think that means Hinduism has no future, then you are not a Hindu.
There are millions of people in Britain, whose names are Chritians but they are not Christians in their way of life. Similarly there are a few millions Hindus in the world, very few are real Hindus, as they do not bother to read the Holy Books and defy what is written there.
I am absolute sure those who have constructed this or that temple have never read Bhagwat Gita or Upanisad.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:17 am
For Ptambar:
I am not Dipika, I guess you do not know any Hindi or Sanskrit. Dipika is female. I am a man, my name id Dipak. You may not like what I am saying, but that does not give you the right to insult me. Then you would be a Paki or Bangladeshi, not a Hindu.
You said,” As a matter of fact, Hinduism - to best of my knowledge- never takes shelter behind a statment from some scriptures…saying that ” in such and such book it is stated like that, so you just accept it “…on the other hand, it asks us to investigate and find out the reason for any thing…and tells us not to accept anything blindly…If we are not able to get an explanation, yet, still work on that and sure we will get it from some one or other.. ”
That is your own opinion, but this is not Hinduism. Every religion has a set of theories, ideas and prescribed way of life. If you do not want to follow because these are very difficult, you are not following that religion.
I suggest you not to waste time tio find out a Guru Maharaj who would pick up Rolex watches from his hair or a Yogi who would charge you $1000 to touch his feet or some people who build temples to have a place to do their business deals.
Just read the Holy books Bhagwat Gita and Upanisad. These books are not long. That would not take a long time. You wil get all answers.
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:30 pm
“Navin, the authority for the Hindus are the three sets of holy books: Vedas, Upanisad, Bhagwat Gita.”
Who said so?
Dipak you need to read up before you make statements like these, to the Arya Samajists only the Vedas are authoritative, to the Shaivas the Agamas, the Vedas and scriptures like Shiva Purana are very important while the Gita is not that important.
To a Vaishnava the Bhagavata Purana and the Bhagavadgita are authoritative etc.
You are no one to decide what the authority for Hindus are, especially when the majority of traditionalists would reject your ideas outright (because to them the Puranas are also sacred).
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:17 pm
It seems that, Dipak, you are very passionate (rajasic) about the Gita. This is a good thing. I hope you will find a way to put the Gita and the hands of every human being you meet, every hotel room. every lounge. That along with the Upanisads. This would be an awesome thing for hinduism.
Being a man involves being an adult. This means taking responsibility for your beliefs. I hope you can do that and instead of speaking harshly to people, as the Gita advises you not to, you will speak pleasently. At least you can stop attacking long enough to answer the questions posed: where in the Gita does it say not to build temples?
I have said that I want to see Krishna in every one. This includes you. My failure to do so is my failure. But I do still hope that you will find Krishna in your heart, not only on a page.
hariaum
October 24th, 2006 at 5:05 am
For Navin:
“where in the Gita does it say not to build temples?”
Answer:
Krishna said that in a number of ways.
In Ch 16:, ” Evil men know not what should be done or what should not be done. ( verse7)
They are bound by hundreds of vain hopes. anger and lust is their refuge and they strive by unjust means to amass wealth for their own cravings.( verse 12)
I shall pay for religious rituals. I shall make benefactions. I shall enjoy myself. Thus they say in their darkness of delusion.( verse 15)
They offer their wrong sacrifices for ostentation, against divine law.”( verse 17)
In Ch9:
“He who offers to me with devotion only a leaf, or a flower or a fruit or even a little water, this I accept from that yearning soul, because with a pure heart it was offered with love” ( verse 26)
In Ch 11:
“Not by the Vedas, or an austere life or ritual offereings can I be seen.
Only by love can men see me and know me and come unto me.
He who works for me, who loves me, whose End Supreme I am, free from attachment to all things and with love for all creature he in truth comes unto me.” ( verse 53-55)
Unfortunately you are all just chating, you have never read anything of Hinduism.
Harish Duggiriwala is the worse, he represents the primitive Hinduism that used to exist until the 20th century, and still exist in the backward parts of India, where prope sacrifice children in front of Kali, they have open sex in the name of Tantra, used to force 11 years old girls to marry 84 years old man just to keep the status, used to force a widow of 12 years old to be burnt alive along with her dead husband —– all in the name of Hinduism.
It took a lot of efforts of Raja Rammohan Roy, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Dayananda, Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar to erase out these evil practices to propagate true Hinduism which is there only in these three sets of books: Vedas, Upanisad and Bhagwat Gita.
However, evil practices still exist. There is one web site of Savarkarya Hindutva ( followers of Savarkar Hindutva of BJP), who are suggesting Hindus to eat beef in Texan style. They also do not accept the authority of Bhagwat Gita either. They are staunch followers of President Bush and everything USA suggests. They consider these as Hinduism.
October 24th, 2006 at 8:59 am
I think Dipikaji is born and brought up in United Kingdom. Since she is from U.K. and since English is the language of UK, i wish if Dipikaji tells us that English is not taught in the schools of England ! Do they teach English as a language? why do they teach that language? Why do we require any teacher to teach anything? there are books and library and now the web? why people have combined study, group discussion etc?
If Dipikaji tries to answer the above, she will notice that GURU = teacher and a teacher is needed to learn anything. When we were baby, we learned a lot from mother, father, other family memebers around…That is all learning and learning needs that help. It is too much for us to say that reading a few books will help us know a thing. If that be the case, then level of our education would have been far higher and we humanbeings would have had less of problems in life.
We all know that same word means different in different situations and only when some one who learned these and understood these and have capability to explain these will be able to teach others. Every body cannot be a teacher. So also, Bhagavat Gita, if Dipikaji has read, may be it needs more explanations to know the intricacies .
I sure will go thru the sloka’s stated by Dipikaji to know where what differs from what she has stated and what others have stated..since - while i cannot recite Gita, I have been listening to the explanations and with Dipikaji’s statments, i need to compare my understanding with her views.
By the way, Krishna talks about Karma su kaushalam….will Dipikaji be able to throw any light on this?
Again, Brahman is not a name of any God… It is the totality …and understanding BRAHMAN is an education by itself. If Dipikaji would like to know more about Brahman, may be it will be good to visit yahoo advaitins group where very interesting discussions take place on this subject.
Also, Hinduism is not a systematic religion…This is a religion with max freedom. will one need to be a Hindu or belonging to anyother religion to understand LAW OF KARMA? And when one understand that, how does it matter if one is a HINDU OR NOT?
The otherday we came across some one giving us an example:
Bin Ladin too could be a Hindu, in some birth and to finish of his “PRARABDA” he had taken a human birth as a muslim this time. Now he has been using his FREE WILL in a way against (HINDU TERMINOLOGY) DHARMA - and that means he is adding more to his SANCHITA KARMA..
To exhaust that he will have to take again some births and who knows one day he will take birth as a HINDU to exhaust the last part of his sanchita karma AND then may not add on new karmas to have the sanchita karma…finally to resolve in Brahman.
Now while this is debatable, can any one complain about this sort of explanation?? interesting i found this.
In nutshell, IGNORANCE is the cause of our problems. To remove IGNORANCE, we need to learn; to learn anything, we need teachers, to teach us there must be place where people can gather, to gather and study, the place must have a conducive atmosphere. To create such atmosphere, may be temple is something nice.
Now commercially looking at that, a temple does not come up just like that. It needs effort from many people…not only money, but professionalism in engineering, architecture, skills, trade, you name it all the skills involved in any community is involved in constructing, running, maintaining etc
In Bangalore, if you come to certain Bus stations, you can see that early at 4 am, the buses arriving in this city carry, hundreds of thousands of yards of flowers…Do u know how many thousands of people are earning a lively hood? there are agriculture specialists, farmers, flower pluckers, people who convert this to garland…it goes in tens of thousands..
Life is meant for us to be happy and then make people around us to be happy too. It is impossible for ‘ I ‘ to be happy ALONE.
So instead of finding fault on a total basis, we can talk about further improvments…not condemnation.
namaste
October 24th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
I am extremly sorry that i made a very serious mistake by typing Dipika instead of Dipak…
very very sorry Dipakji…it is really stupid of me…very careless that I am, i feel too bad to have made such a silly mistake and realised it only now…
Once again very sorry and hope i shall be more careful…
tks for understanding
October 24th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
so in your response, Dipak, you could not find a verse that says don’t build temples but rather verses that say the finding Krishna in your heart is more important than anywhere else.
You must then philosophise to conclude the temple builders do not find Krishna in their heart, somehow you know this more than them, but at the same time you are telling someone who has found Krishna in his heart to look at a book. That is the problem you see, a universal one to be sure. One has to intepret. I would rather place the greatest restrictions on myself than on someone else, thus if a person want to build a temple, my first impulse is that they do it with a heart turned towards Brahman. When a person talks about sexuality, I assume it is in marriage (if not at least in Love) and with a heart towards Brahman as marriage and love are institutions (temples if you like) of Brahman.
I certainly am aware that not all is rosey with the world. I presume it is until there is evidence otherwise. But we must address the “wrong way” that people follow. and this is what your quotations reflect. There is a worng spirit to worship, to building temples, to education, to sex. Here, naturally, we agree. How do we then recognize these wrong ways? The Gita is clear: detachment and renunciation. The foundation of this is of course Krishna itself. But in the material world we have prakriti to deal with. Though we know that Krishna is the actor and the field, we - by our material nature and egoism - must act within the prakriti. To this Krishna cautions, as you do, that too much rajas, too much tamas inhibit our purusha from being more clearly involved in the world. But the wonder of our tradition is that it leaves the judgement of what is too much between ego and Brahman. Of course the real way is detachment and renunciation. Until then, we struggle to find balance in satva, rajas, and tamas.
The other question you raise is hugely important to hinduism today. To define hinduism is also define what is not hinduism. I would propose it is a set of ideologies that say that there is only one way to Brahman - that leads to darknes, to falsehood, and to identification with the body as self (christianity and islam being the well populated types). Once we recognize the ideoloogy behind evil we understand it better. But I would also propose we temper this by the understanding that Krishna is in every living being - living beings trump ideology. That is of course why we say Namaste.
Let us all together use the tools of philosophy, religion, dialectic, politics, economics, art, daily life, and personal love to find for ourselves more clearly how to be as Krishna has modeled for us millenia after millenia.
hariaum
October 25th, 2006 at 2:15 am
“Unfortunately you are all just chating, you have never read anything of Hinduism.
Harish Duggiriwala is the worse, he represents the primitive Hinduism that used to exist until the 20th century”
You are the one talking nonsense, you can be the progressive, we are satisfied with our primitive backward Hinduism.
Read up before you sprout your nonsense because you make yourself look like a fool.
“and still exist in the backward parts of India, where prope sacrifice children in front of Kali, they have open sex in the name of Tantra, used to force 11 years old girls to marry 84 years old man just to keep the status, used to force a widow of 12 years old to be burnt alive along with her dead husband —– all in the name of Hinduism.”
Utter nonsense and indicates that you don’t even have cursory knowledge of Indian history.
“It took a lot of efforts of Raja Rammohan Roy, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Dayananda, Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar to erase out these evil practices to propagate true Hinduism which is there only in these three sets of books: Vedas, Upanisad and Bhagwat Gita. ”
In your cult (not Hinduism) there are only 3 books.
None of the people you mentioned claimed that there were only 3 authoritative books for Hindus, even Dayananda only accepted the Vedas as authoritative, not the Gita or the Upanishads.
Dipak you know you are a nobody among Hindus and I know you are a nobody, so just face the fact that your moronic ideas will not get any support from many Hindus.
I know it hurts but once in a while you have to learn to live in the real world too.
October 30th, 2006 at 6:35 am
For Duggriwala:
“You said, “Dipak you know you are a nobody among Hindus and I know you are a nobody, so just face the fact that your moronic ideas will not get any support from many Hindus.”
yes, you are somebody among the pot-bellied Aluwala, Gobiwals, Ladduwala, Bandutwalas, selling spices and curry, giving money to GuruMaharaj, burn Ghees, pay $500 to touch the feet of a fake Yogi — these what you call Hinduism.
You are really degenerated idiots, it is not Hinduism. Yes, millions of people of India still thinks it is Hinduism, that is the reason they are backward and the country is being ruled by thieves, rapists, murders, mahajans, and aluwalas.
Rather than knowing what is Hinduism, rather than reading the Holy Books you are just talking nonsense about different sects and different vices of Hinduism.
People like you gave a bad name for the Hinduism.
October 30th, 2006 at 8:10 am
I have tried to draw the attention of yours to the true Hinduism, as given in The Bhagwat Gita, Upanisad and the Vedas, but I have failed because you Hindus are not interested to read your holy book but ponder in your delusions of ignorance. You think Hinduism is what you think, and what is being practiced.
In that case there is nothing wrong in what BBC and the Christian missioneries say that Hinduism is not a religion, but a jungle of different ideas, different faiths, different practices, animal worship, tantra-mantra etc. You are proving that they are right. This is a shame.
October 30th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
Dipak you are what we Hindus call a coconut (brown on the outside but white on the inside).
The first breed of this type was Ram Mohan Roy from Bengal, so no surprise you are continuing the tradition of trying to gain acceptance from your white masters by trying to distort Hinduism to suit your whims.
Losers like you will even disown the Gita if tomorrow the BBC says something nasty about it and you call yourself a Hindu, go down to an Indian village and try and spew your nonsense among the villagers and trust me you will get a thrashing you will not forget till the day you die.
I may be or may not be pot bellied but you are a coconut for sure and that’s worse.
November 2nd, 2006 at 5:47 pm
But perhaps the two of you can decide what is not hinduism - you may agree on that. Perhaps not.
hariaum
November 5th, 2006 at 7:39 am
Of Course for Aluwalas, Gobiwals, or Bandukwalas, Raja Rammohan Roy who has rejuvinated India and promoted true Hinduism to fight the British Missioneries is a coconut, but not Alu or Gobi.
You consider yourself a Hindu, but you never bother to read Rig Veda, Upanisad and Bhagwat Gita, what Raja Rammohan Roy had considered as true message of Hinduism. For you Bhagwan Rajnish, or Sai Baba would be enough.
November 6th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
DB- how do you know who had read what? Perhaps you are finding that we disagree on interpretations and that proves to you that we don’t know. It is one thing to claim we diagree on interpretaion, another to claim we haven’t read something.
On the other hand, is guru worship of only Raja Rammohan stated in the gita or does the gita say that whenever you worship (anything) with a loving heart Krishna accepts it?
Do you take Krishna who says to see beyond the scriptures as more important than your Raja who says the scriptures are where you find Krishna? -obviously we use the scriptures to learn how to see Brahman in all things.
hariaum
November 8th, 2006 at 7:30 am
“whenever you worship (anything) with a loving heart Krishna accepts it?”
It is not a question of interpretation at all. People like Aluwalas never read anything, they believe in various Pujas and temples( which are nothing but business centres) but not the Holy books of Hinduism.
Krishna describes what is worship, what is sacrifice and also what is false worship. These are described in clearn terms in Bhagwat Gita.
November 8th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Dipakji
” Krishna describes what is worship, what is sacrifice and also what is false worship. These are described in clear terms in Bhagavat Gita”
can u be kind enough to let us know a little bit in details what it says and in which stanza etc please?
—————- by the way, all those Aluwalas who never read anything, and who believe in various Pujas and temples, what is going to be their fate??
if they had no opportunity to read, is it their fault? for a fault which is not of theirs, will they be punished?
November 9th, 2006 at 8:08 am
The descriptions are in the latte chapters referring to intent operating on prakriti. I suspect that stereotypes of aluwalias etc is empty. Unless one know the full motives of people puttingthem down is silly. As to reading, very important. Read everything you an get your hands on.
The Gita is great, the upanishads are great, the vedas are great. But greater than all of these is the atman which is in love with Brahman. Foster that. All else is commentary.
hariaum
December 4th, 2006 at 8:16 am
Dear Pairambir and Navin:
“Brahman is the Supreme, the Eternal. Atman is his spirit in man” Bhagwat Gita, Ch 8, verse 3
” He who works for me, who loves me, whose End Supreme I am, free from attachment to all things, and with love for all creation, he in truth comes unto me” Bhagwat Gita, Ch 11, verse 55
” In this world, there are two roads of perfection. Jnana Yoga, the path of wisdom and Karma Yoga, the path of action.” Ch 3, verse 3, Bhagwat Gita
” Action is greater than inaction. Perform your task in life” Ch 3, verse 8
” Let your actions be pure, free from the bonds of desire” Ch 3, verse 9