Are Hindu widows supposed to burn themselves?
“Why is it that Hindu women have to burn themselves when their husbands die?â€
This question was relayed to the Hindu speaker at an event in Brighton University. The speaker smiled and asked the largely Hindu audience if they had actually heard of any woman amongst their family or friends who had burnt herself when her husband died, or had even been encouraged to do so? The crowd, of course, answered in the negative.
July 24th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your nice speech regarding the sati tradition with historical facts. However, if you read Mahabharat, When King Pandu (Father of pandavas) died and his 2nd wife Madri burnt herself. Can you please explain me the reason behind this act?
Thanks & Regards,
Dr. Ramakrishna.
July 25th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
In the Mahabharata, Madri, the second wife of Pandu, immolates herself. She holds herself responsible for the death of her husband, who had been cursed with death if he ever had intercourse. He died while performing the forbidden act with Madri, who blamed herself for not having rejected his advances, although she was well aware of the curse. Pandu’s other wife Kunti didnt follow suit yet she is glorified. It is notable that in the Ramayana, Tara, in her grief at the death of husband Vali, wished to commit sati. Hanuman, Rama, and the dying Vali dissuade her and she finally does not immolate herself.
At the end of the day suicide is strictly forbidden in the Vedas. Medhatithi a 13th century commentator on the Vedas confirms this.
July 25th, 2006 at 7:39 pm
Certainly ’sati’ (truly unfortunate that such a despicable act is given such a virtuous name) has no Hindu sanction. Equally, it is true that it has always been an isolated event, rather than a communal, societal or mainstream practice (stand fast ‘jauhar’). However, I have certainly in my limited experience come across two cases of it in the modern-day rural Indian context. I wonder if any here may be aware of any work that is being done to tackle this issue.
July 26th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Though I cannot disagree with the statement made on Satis by the speaker and the critics as I have not researched the question.
However, the Government of India by enacting a legisltation prohibited the barbaric practce. Indian Penal Code has provisions to deal with the perperators as well as aiders and abbetors. Despite these sanctions a few years ago in Rajasthan a woman was put on her husband’s pyre much against her wish by the husband’s kith and kin and the villagers encouraged it. The physician who doused her absconded. The authorities turned a blind eye. There was a big hue and cry in the national and provincial print and voice media. Women pressure groups raised the issue with the authorities but of no result. The irony is the poor victim who became a Sati is worshipped. While recently travelling in Bihar, Jharkhand and Orissa I found that there in Hindu temples behind the dieities werea number of monuments of unfortunate Satis and people there worship them. In present day and in Modern India you find this unfortunate evidence. Could any one give explanation for inclusion of glorification of Satis symbols in the Hindu temples. The examples of Rama, Krishna and Hunuman are mere precedents of the past or a line of defence when anyone is confronted with the question.
Omkar Nath Channan
July 26th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Nice speach about Sati .As per my knowledge Self murder( Atama Hatya)
is grave sin which never be compensate by any Japa, Tapa or other method.
July 28th, 2006 at 2:53 pm
To Omkar
There are lots of temples in India, several million. That a few of them worship ’satis’ cannot indict Hinduism as a whole, against the fact that most Hindus do not aprove of sati, and all Hindu teachings go against it.
The fact that there was such large media coverage of ONE incident of Sati several years ago in Rajastan tells us straight away that it is very uncommon.
The fact is sati is not an issue anymore, and is not even worth tackling (except to stop people using it to defame Hinduism). A much bigger issue nowadays that must be tackled, is female foetacide in placed like Punjab, Rajasthan and Haryana. That is something that social groups have gotta tackle asap. There are only 850 females per thousand males in these areas!
July 28th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
There are numerous stories of women who prostituted themselves for Israel and are glorified for it in the Bible.
).
The value of women is a great problem in all of our societies - past and current. So many reformers have tried and failed. If humans are dumb enough to continue this trend the value of women will sudenly rise when the sons aren’t having children on their own.
One could hope this is a transitional problem but developed countried don’t seem to do much of a better job.
But it is the eternal quest to seek greater justice in the world and we keep trying to make the inequity less - education is the mainstay but at least for now that will have to come from the mothers. The other side will be when men are allowed to be home with the kids (teaching them) while mom is working. Of course the goal will be parents raise kids and male and female work as one spiritual unit. (I’m not sure if that’s serious or a joke
hariaum
July 28th, 2006 at 11:26 pm
In response to Meena:
The fact that I have personally come across two instances of ’sati’ suggests to me that it is nowhere near uncommon enough - I’m sure that if I in my limited time have come across two cases, those who work in the villages and tribal areas regularly come across far more cases. Incidentally, lack of media coverage does not necessarily equal rarity - it may equally well be simply down to lack of media interest, for whatever reason.
In addition, it is all very well to say that it is uncommon, but I doubt whether that is much consolation to the poor woman who lies strapped down to the funeral pyre, being slowly burnt alive.
Finally, I agree there are much bigger problems that need to be dealt with, but that doesn’t mean that the smaller issues should be completely ignored.
July 29th, 2006 at 2:21 am
“Strapped down to the funeral pyre” - what have you been reading? I shouldn’t even have to comment on such rubbish, ‘ strapped down’! Sheesh. You should educate yourself.
Regarding your other point, I subscribe to an Indian feminist journal, Manushi, and it regularly highlights all women’s issues. Several papers in there say that Sati is over hyped, and that if or whenever it does happen, no matter where it is, there is a media frenzy. These are people who are full time researchers in the field.
July 29th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Meena, you appear to be an intelligent, sensible person, so I assume that your words are merely designed to portray your shock rather than meant as personal insult, which they otherwise could appear to be.
The two instances I mentioned that I have come across, one of which was the case that I hinted at in that description are cases that I came across during the course of my work in rural India, and not some story I read in some journal with its own agenda, howsoever lofty its claimed ideals. Whilst working in India and other parts of the world, I have regularly come across many ‘full time researchers in the field’ and seen their way of working, and whilst some of them are indeed doing highly commendable work, the accolade in itself I am afraid appears to mean very little.
I agree entirely, it is important to educate oneself. Of course, we all have our own individual learning styles that work best for us; I have found over the years that I learn far better from direct experience than sitting and reading books and journals.
July 29th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Sati is way overhyped, it takes place once every few years, in a country of billion people there are bound to be such things and plus the self styled saviours of women don’t seem to take into account that the woman may herself be doing it voluntarily (if not sati then she will probably committ suicide by some other method). There are more important issues Hindus are better off concentrating on such as female infanticide.
July 29th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
The reason why I wrote in that way is because your innappropriate graphical style of writing made it sound like the woman is strapped down. by others in sati. Which anybody should know, is not the case.
At the end of the day, I will snap at people who write in a way that promotes the self-flaggelating tendency amongst Hindus (a tendency which is so widespread that it puts many people I have known off even studying Hindu philosophy). The fact is, and this should be emphasised, it is very rare, and against Hindu teachings.
July 30th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Meena, I am glad to see your passion for the issues you believe in, and I certainly agree that excessive self-hatred is not particularly encouraging to young Hindus looking at their community. Equally, however, I feel it unlikely that firing personal insults at people would be any more encouraging to those people you mention.
I agree that Sati is very uncommon, as I said above; however, that does not mean that it should be completely ignored. A parallel might be drawn with certain rare diseases in Britain. Though they are extremely rare, research and active efforts still continue to find lasting treatments and even cures for them, and they are followed up appropriately should they occur. In the same way, I agre that far more efforts should be made for issues like female infanticide/foeticide, etc. that are vastly more prevalent, but the rarer issues are still things that need to be borne in mind and addressed appropriately.
Returning to my ‘inappropriate graphical style of writing’, again I reiterate, the case I hinted at with that description was a real-life case that I personally came across during my own work in rural India. It doesn’t happen that way? Tell that to her poor parents who have no tears left to cry. (Yes, that last sentence was my graphical style of writing - I apologise if it offended anyone’s sensibilities..)
July 30th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
I thought Sati by women en masse was done when a town fell to muslim invaders, in order for the womens honour to be protected.
July 30th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
^^^ That is true, but the practice is called Jauhar (I think) rather than Sati.
Regarding the previous exchange between Meena and Satya, I definately agree that the self-hating tendency of Hindus that blowing out of proportion of things like Sati is probably the biggest problematic tendency amongst Hindus in western countries. In fact, this tendency even prevents real solutions and progress, because it prevents people even wanting to solve problems within the framework of Hindu dharma. However, with regards to any individual victims of the custom, however rare, we should always extend our fullest heartfelt sympathy for any human suffering that takes place like this.
July 31st, 2006 at 4:31 pm
You’re all wonderful.
Anecdotes are very important. Statistical reasoning is also very important. When one individual is killed, it is a crime and needs full investigation and execution of justice - a very complicated but important word. When an idea of killing is sustained it becomes a statistical event an needs a system wide approach.
We need kings (governments) with the will to go after wrong doers and we need dharma (religious teachings) that go after wrong. We need you both.
Hariaum.
August 2nd, 2006 at 11:38 pm
The speaker is perfectly right about JAUHAR. But this was a collective self immolation practised not as a religious rite as has been made out to be but rather an act of interwoven with military practices of specific warlike people. Jauhar was confined only to Rajputs many of whom descended from Scyths and these are known to have such practice also. Certain German tribes too are known to deny the falling of their women to the enemy. It is a purely honour related practice not connected in general sense to the Indian subcontinent or Hinduism
August 3rd, 2006 at 1:38 pm
“Jauhar was confined only to Rajputs many of whom descended from Scyths and these are known to have such practice also.”
A correction, while Jauhar was predominantly done by Rajputs, there were instances of others doing it, for example the wife of Dahir Sen and her female attendants immolated themselves when Muhammad Bin Qasim invaded and captured Sindh.
Nextly not all Rajput descend from Scythians, a majority of the clans are native to India, this theory of Rajputs all descending from Scythians were later concocted by Colonial authors like Cunningham (kind of like a second AIT).
August 24th, 2006 at 7:45 am
To N. Parashar (on his of the25th July)
You are right brother, Madari’s Sati-hood is described in detail in Mahabharatta. For further information sought by Sri Ramakrishna T., we’d request him to go through chapter 124 of the Aadi Parva of Mahabharattam. His, as well as, of many other readers many a query and doubt shall be laid to rest fully.